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Hookah smoking lounges face curbs
By Patrick Jackson BBC News


A campaign is growing in the US to put the regulation of hookah smoking in public spaces on a par with cigarette controls.

If exotic-looking cigarette lounges that extolled the pleasures of flavoured tobacco suddenly appeared on US streets, health-conscious Americans would be demanding action from the authorities.

Why, then, tolerate bars or campus rooms where, health officials warn, users of the hookah water pipe may breath in 100-200 times the volume of smoke inhaled from a single cigarette during a typical one-hour session?

According to a New York Times article this week, legislators, college administrators and health advocates from California to Connecticut are taking action against what many of them call the newest front in an ever-shifting war on tobacco.

Gayle Slossberg, a state senator in Connecticut who is backing a local bill to control hookah lounges, believes many young Americans do not appreciate the health risks.

"They think that because it is smoking over water it is somehow just not going to harm them in any way," she told the BBC World Service.

However, for Connecticut student Erin Biel, the hookah means a chance to relax without having resort to alcohol, and the Yale University student says she can control her consumption.

Young people 'targeted'

One Connecticut hookah lounge, Beans and Leaves in Fairfield, sees college students and young people pouring in every weekend and on many week nights, according to an article in the Milford News.


They come to smoke but also to play cards and board games, listen to music, watch TV.

"We've seen a great rise in our state, and across other states, in hookah smoking in hookah lounges and they are targeted towards our young people," Senator Slossberg told the BBC.

She accepts many users only use the water pipe occasionally but points to the cigarette comparison - "like smoking five packs of cigarettes in one hour".

Her bill, approved for voting by the Connecticut General Assembly's public health committee in April, would build on Connecticut's current ban on smoking in public places such as restaurants.

It would stop any new hookah bar opening after 1 July while existing hookah bars would be allowed to continue operations until new health regulations come into effect on 1 July 2013.

'Self-regulated user'

For Ms Biel, the bill seems to have "almost come out of mid-air", unaccompanied by any public health awareness campaign.

She occasionally visits two hookah bars in New Haven, where Yale is located, but generally she smokes the hookah with her friends late at night in dorm rooms, as a way to relax and "spur conversation".

There is an attractive cultural element to the pipe, she points out: "We smoke it in our dorm rooms because we end up buying hookahs when we go abroad, so it's kind of something nice that we bring back from our travels too."

The strict teetotaller says she smokes the hookah "in a very self-regulated manner".

But the US government health warning is very clear: "Hookah smoking is not a safe alternative to smoking cigarettes."

And two other states, Boston and Maine, have already ended exemptions in indoor-smoking laws that allowed hookah bars to thrive.

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Jesus....when is the war against smoking going to end. I don't get why they need to regulate Hookah bars.

You go into a hookah bar to smoke a hookah. You go in, they ID you, and you rent a hookah and smoke it.

If you don't want to smoke a hookah, or don't want to breathe second-hand hookah smoke--then don't go to the hookah lounge.

Seems simple enough. The whole draw of hookah bars is that they are places to smoke hookahs---thats why they are called hookah bars.

I don't understand how that needs to be targeted.

Are people in this country so stupid that they believe that smoking hookah tobacco is any different that smoking a pipe or cigar---its still proven to be carcinogenic, and you still have to be an adult to indulge in this. Are adults in this country that incapable of making an informed decision. We need to force hookah bars to put up signs that smoking tobacco out of hookahs is shown to cause cancer.

Duhhhh.......

This is seriously stupid, and a total waste of tax-payers money. This woman who put this bill together is a total moron.

Do we really need to target hookah bars, I mean rally, are people that stupid to think that smoking tobacco one way is safer than another way.

And most of these bars are in college towns.

Is this woman suggesting the movers and shakers of the next few generations---college students---best and brightest---are so ill-informed to think that smoking tobacco out of a huge bong isn't good for them.

Really lady.

What an idiot.

On a sidenote, I went to a Hookah bar in columbus a few times, called the shishah lounge. It was alright---but nothing ground-breaking. Give me some marijuana every once in a blue moon(but not for awhile anymore.)---at least that gets you a buzz.

Hookah smoke tastes and smells good, it produces a mellow mood---but its not something that really produces any profound effects.

again, this is stupidity.

I get it, you hate smokers....but now you are starting to attack businesses whose main draw is to provide a place to smoke in a traditional way. The whole idea of the business is to provide a place to smoke. Thats the draw. So its not like you are attacking a restaurant who is letting smokers pollute teh air.

What the hell is the point of going to a hookah bar if you are against smoking. How are your rights being violated. You went into the establishment. Its pretty clear what goes on there.

Utter stupidity.


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1. I had no idea that such a thing even existed in the U.S. In Ohio, I'd think that the place would get shut down for "paraphernalia". Then again, maybe not as Head Shops still thrive.



2. "What the hell is the point of going to a hookah bar if you are against smoking. How are your rights being violated. You went into the establishment. Its pretty clear what goes on there."

Common sense has no place in this country. The less sense that something makes, the more likely it is that it will gain the approval of more people and become law.... and I really wish I was joking about that.


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Its not a whole lot different than your the stereotypical old man smoking a corncob pipe, or Sherlock Holmes pipe with pipe tobacco.

Its just using a water pipe---which I believe is a Persian, or Arab thing.

Hookahs are generally large, cumbersome, and often expensive smoking apparatus, So these places allow people the experience of smoking flavored tobaccos out of authentic water pipes.

Since it is a legitimate apparatus for the inhalation of tobacco products, and, in fact, contains tobacco residues and no illicit residues---it is entirely legal.

I think its pretty ridiculous that this needs anymore regulation. You get ID'd upon entrance, and, just like a pack of cigarette's, you have to be 18 to partake.

Why do we need more regulation for tobacco, just b/c its being ingested in a particular location. Especially considering that this particular destination has a primary function as a place to consume tobacco.

This lady is completely out of her mind. These people need to step back and realize that more and more regulations are destroying everything that this country ever was......

This is also a slap in the face for every 18+ adult in this country. its basically saying---you are too stupid to understand that smoking is bad for you, even though we have been jamming that message down your throat since you were 2 years old.

And now, even though you are an adult---we're not sure you can make the right decisions regarding tobacco ingestion. You know its addicting and causes life-threatening illness, right?

Of course you do.

But now we need to point out that huge rips of tobacco off a different style of smoking device is just as harmful.

Its utterly stupid.


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Well, the hookah is just a stupid gimmick, and isn't really germane to the real issue here. The younger crowd digs it because they get to smoke out of a bong in public, and that's where its relevance ends.

The real issue, as you've alluded to, is the fact that The United States of America is a weak and pathetic nanny state rivaling France. The lazy, mindless masses actually WANT a government that does its thinking for it. Personal responsibility is actually discouraged (until you cross the gov't). The system is designed to promote dependence upon the system.





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Quote:

Well, the hookah is just a stupid gimmick, and isn't really germane to the real issue here. The younger crowd digs it because they get to smoke out of a bong in public, and that's where its relevance ends.




I thought this initially too. But if you go to these places, you would see that a lot of these people are teh artsy types who are all about poetry, and exploring cultures. And most don't use drugs.

They are like your left leaning intellectual types actually.

Last ime I was at one, this kid named Chase kept trying to tell me all about his love of Jesus Christ---I was like,,

Hey, hey....easy there holy roller.

But really. Its not what you think.


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I believe that's spelled hooker......

And that's where they belong....in bars.......


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I just usually tell them a hookah smoking caterpillar has given me the call.


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Quote:

In Ohio, I'd think that the place would get shut down for "paraphernalia".




An item isn't 'paraphernalia' in the legal sense until it contains residue of a banned substance.

I can walk down the street with a seven foot bong plastered with a giant pot leaf that says 'Smoke weed' on it, and if there's no drug residue on it, it's not paraphernalia.

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Quote:

Quote:

In Ohio, I'd think that the place would get shut down for "paraphernalia".




An item isn't 'paraphernalia' in the legal sense until it contains residue of a banned substance.

I can walk down the street with a seven foot bong plastered with a giant pot leaf that says 'Smoke weed' on it, and if there's no drug residue on it, it's not paraphernalia.




the judge let you go?


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An item isn't 'paraphernalia' in the legal sense until it contains residue of a banned substance.




This is not true.....In my recent brush with the law I asked my PD why I wasn't simply charged with paraphernalia for the spoon and crackpipe and she said that any residue brings a possession charge. Any implement that can be used for the consumption of drugs can net you a paraphernalia charge. Once it has residue, it becomes possession. Without residue, they can still charge you with paraphernalia.

I found out yesterday that a chef I had grown up with recently was charged with paraphernalia for an unopened box of needles and a box full of spoons. Needles were unopened, and the spoons were in with his chef knives---never before used. They still charged him with paraphernalia---and no residue was present.

I had thought that you needed residue too. But according to Cleveland prosecutors---you don't need to have residue to get charged. All the police need is some kind of suspicion and you are sunk. Really that's all it takes.

"We think that you might be planning on using this for drug abuse," and you get charged.

Although to be fair. I think that my PD coerced me into my plea deal. So I am not so sure that she told me the truth or represented me in any legitimate way.


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Quote:

But if you go to these places, you would see that a lot of these people are teh artsy types who are all about poetry, and exploring cultures. And most don't use drugs.

They are like your left leaning intellectual types actually.






Actually, those are what you would call fake, poser, pretentious types. Wannabes that do something for the sake of being seen... far worse than some sophomoric kids doing something for the giggles that it's a bong.


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"We think that you might be planning on using this for drug abuse," and you get charged.






Then why don't they just sit outside the head shops and wait for someone to walk out? Easy money.


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First of all, I think you were either represented by an idiot or someone who didn't have the time to bother.

If you have a lawyer with even a scent of credibility, a paraphernalia charge for a pipe with no drug residue is laughed out of court. The slightest fight on a charge like that and the prosecution will give in. There's no evidence of drug use.

And, yes, you need some money for that. So, if you're broke and you get stuck with a P.D. who doesn't give a rat's behind ... yeah, maybe you'll get a charge.

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I very much view her as an idiot and after this is all over, she is going to get a couple not so nice letters about her ability to advise someone in the legal arena. And I would intend to also write letters to whatever media I can in this city.

The Plain Dealer already has a long standing beef with the Cuyahoga County Prosecutors office and Bill Mason. I intend on writing a detailed account of my story.

But not until it gets resolved and they can't come after me in an attempt to put me away. Currently, I just have to grin and bear it. Make the best of it. But after a couple years, I plan on sending in an editorial comment about my experience.

I felt completely hosed.

But if you look. There are lots of people who routinely get screwed in Cuyahoga County.

Read this article, and you will get an idea of what they are doing out in Cleveland. Its a first of five parts, and I hope they eventually have to answer for this..

As much as I love Cleveland sports teams, I am not a fan of the city officials, and I think that the justice system in Ctown is absolutely sickening.

edit: Part of me thinks that if I would have just stuck to my guns and taken this to trial, it would have gotten thrown out---but when they switched my case to this certain judge, I wasn't so sure. Apparently, my co-defendants Public defender was the niece of the bailiff of the first judge we got---so they switched my caase to another judge---it seemed like another part where I got shafted.

Last edited by Tyler_Derden; 06/01/11 11:38 PM.

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Quote:

The real issue, as you've alluded to, is the fact that The United States of America is a weak and pathetic nanny state rivaling France.



I agree..

Quote:

The lazy, mindless masses actually WANT a government that does its thinking for it.



No they don't. They want a government that does the thinking for other people. Older people traditionally want to regulate stuff like this... younger people want a government that mandates recycling.... the health conscious want fast food regulated... poor people want a government that regulates executive salaries... non smokers want smoking regulated to some degree... darn near everybody wants the government to regulate peoples behavior, most just want them to regulate other peoples vices, not their own.

It is the cumulative effect of this that has caused us to become what we are...


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Quote:

Quote:

But if you go to these places, you would see that a lot of these people are teh artsy types who are all about poetry, and exploring cultures. And most don't use drugs.

They are like your left leaning intellectual types actually.






Actually, those are what you would call fake, poser, pretentious types. Wannabes that do something for the sake of being seen... far worse than some sophomoric kids doing something for the giggles that it's a bong.




Not trying to be a jackass...but didn't you post earlier that you didn't even know that these places existed in the US, let alone actually ever visited a hookah bar?

And yet you feel qualified to cast blanket statements across the whole group of people that frequent these establishments. You said yourself you have never been to, or even known about these places---but then you feel like you know exactly the type of people who hang out in hookah bars.

Maybe actually go to a hookah bar and meet some people before you dismiss them all as attention-seekers and posers.

I am not trying to single you out....or argue or anything.

I just think that you should probably go to one of these places before you start telling everyone just what type of person hangs out at a hookah bar.

Hookah bars are almost always located in college towns, and it is something else for young adults to do, and the environment is very conducive to conversation. Its almost like a coffeehouse, but with flavored tobaccos burning on big hookahs.

Just saying......take the time to go to the place and meet the people there before you declare that they are all pretentious punks.


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And two other states, Boston and Maine, have already ended exemptions in indoor-smoking laws that allowed hookah bars to thrive.




Hmm.. Boston got statehood huh?


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I am old gezzer who has served his country faithfully over many years.
By law,I am not permitted to smoke my cigs while drinking in a bar.Those cigs help to subdue the urge to kill the annoying people around me.
Now those same annoying people believe they have the right to smoke tobacco in a bar because it relaxs them.
All hooka bars should be outlawed and anyone caught smoking one should be thrown out of the country.Unless of coarse they have the good stuff in
it,now that's relaxing.


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I don't understand why hookah isn't under the same restrictions as smoking. You are burning tobacco when you smoke either....


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I'm just still amazed that young people with everything they know about smoking still choose to do so.


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