Quote: I still think at the the end of the day a lot of teams are going to regret not taking Kemba.
I agree and disagree
I think that there's no way the Cavs should consider Kemba because he's not among the top4 prospects in this class. However, I do think that there will be more busts in the top10 than usual and that Kemba will not be a complete bust.
I don't think he'll be more than a 6/7th man scoring option off the bench, but that's a role that alot of teams need and the teams that bust on their pick will see him in hindsight as one of the guys they passed on.
Kemba has ability. If he could be someone like Jason Terry, I think that would be a success.
If I were the cavs, I would be hesitate on taking Kanter. When you're taking a Euro that high, it's always a huge gamble. You go look at history, players from Europe rarely turn into all-stars, or superstars. Besides Dirk, Pau and Manu, I can't think of any player from Europe that has been an impact player. Their potential is always limited. Most of them are good offensive players, but lack athletic ability, and defensive skills.
but, one thing that irks me is that you can't look at past players much when guaging a current prospect.
just like it doesn't matter much what Duke PGs did in the NBA when looking at Irving. it doesn't matter much what European players did in the NBA when looking at Enes. they are different players. evaluate their skillset and level-set against the competition.
not European but there's Bogut (Australia) then there's also the South American guys like Nene, Varajeo, Barbosa, etc. didn't even realize that Horford was Dominican
I meant more along the lines of Dirk, Or Manu, guys that are going to be all-stars, and help you win playoff games, and championships. Outside of Parker, most of those players were role players. Good players, but guys that aren't going to be the face of a franchise. When you have a high pick like the cavs do, you hope to get a difference maker. If we take Kanter, I know my expectations will be at the minimum 18pts, 10rbs, plus good defense. Anything less, would be a disappointment.
good chance that Utah looks at a trade for a PG and goes with Enes at 3 if he's there. i'm thinking less and less of the Cavs actually having a shot at landing Enes at #4.
for instance, the Blazers are shopping Andre Miller. they could trade Andre+1st rounder to Utah for Millsap. Frees up a rotational spot for Enes who has more size and could form a scary combo with Favors going forward (and they still have Al Jefferson to work in too). Then, Utah has 2 more 1st rounders to work with either getting a PG-for-the-future or some wing players (Klay or Tristan for instance)
Edit: by the same token, Utah likes Millsap more than Al Jefferson by most accounts. if we suspect they will do this anyway, then it could behoove us to do the following:
Baron Davis + #32 for Al Jefferson
Contracts basically average out. We move a PG (playing time for Irving) and get a rotational big who can legitimately play center (though no defense). Utah gets a PG to play now and to groom whoever they decide is their PG-of-the-future while adding another pick.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 06/17/1103:34 PM.
I hope that whatever the Cavs do, they wind up with a legit 5, whether its by drafting Kanter or someone else, using the TPE to swing a deal for a vet, or signing a free agent. Andy is 1000% better playing the 4, Samardo Samuels is too small to D up top true centers like Dwight, Bynum and Tyson Chandler, and Hollins is rotational depth at best (speaking of Hollins, he looked sooo much better when he played with Baron Davis on the court). Other than the Spurs of '05 and '07, the teams that have won the Finals have all had excellent 5s. Even the Pistons...Ben Wallace was small but a defensive monster when they won it in '04
I wouldn't count out those Spurs. they had Tim Duncan. he was a legitimate 5 on defense, which was needed since they played with stretch-5's alot of the time.
Right, but Tim Duncan will always be remembered as being arguably the best power forward ever, even though he could play the 5 as well. And if you do want to count him, then you'd have to go back to the Jordan-era Bulls, and the big men on those teams weren't exactly slouches either.
Lack of an excellent big man is probably one of the biggest reasons the Cavs could't get it done the past few years. All of our 5s were in the twilights of their careers or not true 5s.
Quote: I still think at the the end of the day a lot of teams are going to regret not taking Kemba.
I agree and disagree
I think that there's no way the Cavs should consider Kemba because he's not among the top4 prospects in this class. However, I do think that there will be more busts in the top10 than usual and that Kemba will not be a complete bust.
I don't think he'll be more than a 6/7th man scoring option off the bench, but that's a role that alot of teams need and the teams that bust on their pick will see him in hindsight as one of the guys they passed on.
I personally think Kemba Walker will have a career like Shannon Brown's. I just hope not too much like Shannon Brown's, I don't want us to draft him.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
OK, Cleveland, it's over now. The LeBron James saga finally has a bit of closure. The season of vengeance and hate has ended, and now we can all pick up the pieces and take a step forward.
I understand you're psyched about LeBron's failure and all. If I were in your circumstance, maybe I'd respond the same way. But you burned the jerseys, booed him to death, cheered wildly when the Mavs beat the Heat and had a day honoring Dallas. I think that's enough.
But now? Now people are naming their unborn children after Dirk Nowitzki. Via the NY Daily News: A pregnant Cleveland radio host is getting the ultimate revenge on LeBron James for leaving the Cavaliers: she'll name her son after a star player on the team that beat the Miami Heat for the NBA championship. Cherise Navidad, the host of a Saturday night show on Cleveland's Q104, says she's never gotten over James' televised announcement last July that he was going to leave his hometown to play for Miami.
"That's such a cruel thing to do," she said of James' announcement at the tail end of the much-hyped hour-long special on ESPN to announce his decision.
So, a year later, she's going to name her son after Dirk Nowitzki, the MVP of the Dallas Mavericks, who beat James and the Heat.
Why not just go all the way with this? Why not "Dallas" or "Maverick?" (Oh wait, not Maverick -- that's the reason LeBron's in Miami.) Or how about "Hatelebron?" Or "Lebronsucks?" I feel like Jerry in the "Seven" episode. What about, Mickey?
She does make a good point though for all the people that are saying this is ridiculous. Navidad agrees. But she'll always have a fun story about how they got the name of their second child. She'll have to explain she made a silly promise on Twitter -- which obviously is a binding contract -- but it all happened because Dirk's Mavericks knocked LeBron and his evil Heat teammates off. As a Clevelander I'm sure that's something they will take great pride in.
Navidad said it's actually her husband's turn to name the child -- she named the first -- but said she promises the baby's name will include Dirk somewhere, even if it's a middle name.
Lebronsucks Dirk Navidad. Got a nice ring to it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Probballdraft Probasketballdraft The Cavs are very active in discussions on trade front. Want to acquire another lotto pick or young veteran but unlikely to include Hickson.
Klay???
LithuaniaBasket @chadfordinsider Definitely the best Center in the draft and best Euro prospect. More upside than Kanter. 2 hours ago
Who is better athlete? Who shot over 70% from the field? Who is a legit 7'0"? Valanciunas is the answer to all questions posted. 2 hours ago
Valanciunas is the 3rd rated prospect on the board. Tremendous upside. Some say Pau Gasol, others Noah or Ilgauskas.
-Jonas V is a superior center prospect to Kanter. Says things would be different if Calipari had recruited Jonas V to UK, as with Kanter.
-CAVS would target a wing, like Leonard, Singleton, or Thompson, if they are able to get another pick in the early to mid teens.
4 Cavaliers Jonas Valanciunas C Lithuania
While Cleveland has been linked to Kanter more openly this is there pick, presuming Valanciunas’ agent secures a buyout that will get the Lithuanian to Cleveland within a season or two. Behind closed doors the Cavs absolutely love Valanciunas, who was among the best rebounders in Europe this past season. Valanciunas has loads of upside and would excite fans with his impressive style of play on defense.
Sources close to the Cavs situation say they wanted another look at Kanter because his first workout was somewhat underwhelming and with Jonas Valanciunas said to be Cleveland's first option at #4, it seems the Cavs are trying to make a decision.
@YossiNBA The Cleveland Cavs will select Jonas Valanciunas 4th if @DWilluofA23 is not available & JV has a buyout in place on draft night.
The Cavs are very active in discussions on trade front. Want to acquire another lotto pick or young veteran but unlikely to include Hickson.
Cavs will take Jonas Valanciunas with 4th pick unless Derrick Williams slips, but still hope to possibly trade it for Rudy Gay, Iguodala etc
@chadfordinsider #Cavs willing to package 1 or more of Sessions, Davis & Hickson + No.4 for the no.2 pick or a young veteran.
I am hoping that we somehow come out of this draft with 3 legitimate impact players. I think that's a realistic expectation given the assets we have.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I've seen quite a variety of highlights though. I've seen ones where he's looked just like Big-Z, finishing everything with soft lay-in and using his long arms rather than hops to defend ... and I've also seen dunk highlights where he's looked fairly athletic.
He does kinda remind me of a more athletic Z. He looks like he has some decent hops, long arms, and a nice touch down low. He also looks like he can run a little bit, which would help in our offense.
It does look like he's more finesse than power at this point ...... but he does look like he has a frame that could easily carry another 20 pounds of muscle.
I think that I could be happy with him and Irving as our picks .... and then maybe add another young veteran player in a trade.
We could get a lot better in a hurry if we get a couple of breaks.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Big V has no ups. At least that what it looks like in that video.
Here's a video where he looks a little more athletic:
I just saw an NBA TV draft preview where he was listed at a solid 7'0, as opposed to 6'10-3/4s. I'm wondering if he's still growing (he's only 19). That video above is from the U18's a year or so ago, so maybe he's a tad less athletic now, but also a tad taller.
Also I'm wondering if the dude might already be a Cavs fan. A big guy out of Lithuiania, you'd think he would have to be a Big-Z fan, and maybe a Cavs as well. Not saying that's a reason to draft him, but it could come in handy when there's talk of him staying in the Euro leagues for an extra season.
ESPN will have video conferencing from the headquarters of 16 teams for its NBA Draft coverage at 6 p.m. Thursday. The video conferencing will provide immediate access to key team personnel. The network will use a “Draft Cam” from the draft rooms of the Cleveland Cavaliers, Minnesota Timberwolves and Utah Jazz, the teams holding the top four picks.
Stuart Scott will host ESPN's coverage with analysts Jay Bilas, Jeff Van Gundy and Jon Barry. Additionally, Fran Fraschilla will offer analysis on the international prospects, with as many as eight expected to be drafted in the first round.
Additional contributors will include: Mark Jones, conducting interviews with the NBA draftees; Heather Cox, interviewing key figures in the green room; Tom Penn, offering perspective on salary cap situations; Ric Bucher, covering breaking NBA news, including trade talks, and Andy Katz, reporting on breaking draft news.
Jeannine Edwards will report from Cleveland, with the Cavaliers holding the first and fourth picks in the draft, and Rachel Nichols will report from Tarrytown, N.Y., site of the New York Knicks practice facility.
OK, so if the Knicks come calling for Ramon Sessions, do you listen if you are the Cavaliers? Would the Knicks trade #17 in the 1st for him ..... and would the Cavaliers want 5 picks in this 1 draft? If not, who would the Cavaliers want back in trade? I don't see any wing players on the Knicks team that would blow me away in a trade senario. I suspect that we'll add 1 premium big in the draft, and probably another in the 2nd. Would you trade a guy like Sessions for a future pick?
The rumor mill Who is saying what leading up to the NBA Draft: • The New York Daily News reports the Knicks are still interested in Cavaliers point guard Ramon Sessions. The paper also is reporting that the Knicks have had preliminary discussions with Minnesota about Jonny Flynn, who has become expendable with the impending arrival of Ricky Rubio. The Knicks are discussing whether Flynn, the sixth pick of the 2009 draft, would be a viable option to back up Chauncey Billups for at least one season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
One wing I'm liking more and more is this 6' 6" Shooting Guard...Klay Thompson from Washington St...Excellent shooter...Needs D work...But I say again...As long as Scott's runnin' this show we will never be a defensive jugernaut...We're gonna need to SCORE nightly...
17 is too low for Thompson though...I see him going anywhere from 11-14 in mocks...
Irving Williams/V/Kanter Thompson
Would be a top notch night of work...
Quote: Cavs brass been talking bout Klay Thompson as lotto talent since December while rest of world had him in 2nd rd. Kudos 2 them.
If Cavs land late lotto pick, Thompson fits the bill as likely target. High ceiling wing player who provides instant offense.
Stats-nerd John Hollinger posted up an insider article on ESPN talking about his draft-rating formula that he's been using/tweaking since 2002 that translates college stats into NBA proficency.
He mentioned the strenghs/weakness of his forumula ... how guards seem to get ranked a lot more accurately than big men, how big men seem to always get a lot higher ratings than other, and how one-and-dones seem to always generate lower ratings than guys who've been there awhile. For example, John Wall and Derrick Rose both scored slightly under 13.0 rating, while Jordan Farmar and TJ Ford rated higher than 13.6.
The "good news" for us, was that Kyrie Irving, despite playing limited minutes and likely getting "knocked" by the formula for limited time and being a one-and-done ... scored a 15.21, only .07 point beind Chris Paul. That makes him the second highest rated PG all-time since he started tracking in 2002 (according to this formula anyway). He said only 6 perimeter players have scored higher than 15 since 2002, and they were stars. (The two "worst" being Danny Granger and Rudy Gay ... best being Wade and Durant)
On top of that, Big-V scored pretty well, 14.7 (4th overall in this draft) ... although he admitted that big-men scores tend to get a little inflated. He didn't have enough data on Kanter, so he placed him around 6th overall on his list (no score). Jan Vesley was way down the order.
I just don't see him as the elite point guard that most see him as.
I think he will. I think he will be every bit of what John Wall is, perhaps not quite the ability to get to the rim with the ball, but that is offset with him being a bigger 3 point threat.
he's not a true #1 build your team around this guy player, but i think it's pretty obvious that there isn't one of those in this draft. So I say get the next best thing. A franchise pg with all-star potential, that can run your offense and hopefully become a leader and floor general. This guy is not the savior.
To his defense though, I don't think cp3, deron williams, or derek rose are legitimately #1 guys on championship teams. The list of guys who are is extremely short, and most drafts probably don't give you those types. Crap, even Lebron James keeps proving us wrong when it's basically assumed he is one of those guys. I'm not gonna throw the "HE'S NOT" stamp on him, but right now, he's not. He can be, but that guy needs to find himself.
I just hope Cavs fans can curb it with Kyrie. This guy ain't gonna boost you up to 50 or 60 wins. He makes your team better, He has a ton of development ahead of him. It's the smart pick. Do this thing right.
So many people are going the route of picking Derrick Williams and then getting Brandon Knight, simply beacuse they think it makes us better immediately. It still doesn't make you a playoff team. Do it right.
I don't wanna be like Tribe people and actually set a date on when they will compete, but it won't be next year. I think they still need that big time lottery pick to get him. They got it this year it's just that the guy isn't in this draft. No guarantee he is next year either.
I keep hearing people comparing Big V to Big Z as a negative thing. I would be pretty happy if he turns in a career like Zs in Zs prime and without the years lost to foot injuries
King
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Well, if this is true, we don't have to worry about 'big v'.
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Ford: Valanciunas has buyout issues John Krolik Jun 20, 2011, 5:30 PM EDT
The top 5 of the 2011 draft, which has already seen Harrison Barnes and Perry Jones drop out of it, seems to have had yet another shakeup. Per ESPN.com’s Chad Ford:
Valanciunas update: Sources say buyout agreement close, however, buyout won’t allow Valanciunas to play in NBA next season.
If Valanciunas can’t play in NBA next year, he’ll drop. Cavs won’t take him at 4. Still I doubt he slips past the Rockets at 14.
This is huge news. Valanciunas seemed like a natural fit for the Cavs with the #4 pick, but now everything has changed. If the Cavs take Irving with the #1 pick and the Jazz take Enes Kanter with the #3 pick, the best non-point guard prospects on the board are Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, and Kawhi Leonard, and none of them have Valanciunas’ combination of size, efficiency, and upside.
The Cavs could change their plans up and take Derrick Williams with the #1 and a point guard like Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker with the #4 pick, but neither Williams, Walker, or Knight are anywhere near as safe of a pick as Irving is. It’s been a rough year for the Cavaliers all the way around, and things just got a little bit tougher for them.
I would love to get a Big Z 2.0, assuming we're talking Z before all of his foot problems. He had a good career, but he was going to be much, much better before the injuries took their toll. Watch some highlights of him before he was hurt, he was quick, agile, and actually left the floor when he jumped. I remember him making a play when they had those ugly uniforms from the Terrell Brandon "era" where he got a steal, beat everyone down the court, and did a behind the back two handed dunk. If "Big V" is that version of Ilgauskas, yes please. If he's the post-injury mid range shooting, slow moving Ilgauskas, well...not at #4
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
