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Not even sure we can trade him to Minny yet as we traded FOR him last year, and I think there are certain rules about trade-backs.
The Rubio situation *is* interesting though, as it will make Minny that much more desperate for a PG, and much more willing to trade down to #4. (or just take a PG early). My fear was that Rubio would go to Minny, and they would just take Kanter at #2. That would leave Utah possibly taking WIlliams at #3 to replace AK, and leaving us with two PGs we wouldn't need or a bunch of so-so forwards.
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I think Rubio is coming back but i don't think it's set in stone. Once again, you have to rule in the Kahn-factor.
I seriously can't wait for this draft, it can go so many ways for us.
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that was what the article was stating. even though it was reported a couple weeks ago that Rubio was coming over, the Twolves never said it and Rubio never said it.
now, there are comments that is he is working on things with Barcelona coupled with earlier comments about how he might be worried about the lockout and there's a growing sentiment that he might stay 'at least' 1 more season in Europe (remember, he was never dead-set at coming to the NBA anyway). plus, he had a brutal year and his stock is dropping anyway, so the Twolves probably can't trade him.
#gmstrong
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Good point about the lock-out. I think that's part of the reason a lot of guys stayed in college for this year's draft. Wouldn't make sense for Rubio to turn down a guaranteed contract with Barca, to come to the US and get locked out of work.
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I have a question: say the league is in fact locked out for the year. If thats the case, how would next years draft play out? Would it be based on the records of this season for the lottery or would everyone have a fair shot at it?
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Quote:
I have a question: say the league is in fact locked out for the year. If thats the case, how would next years draft play out? Would it be based on the records of this season for the lottery or would everyone have a fair shot at it?
someone correct me if i am wrong, but if the whole season gets wiped out, i think the lottery order remains the same and they do it with all of the teams having the same chances that they did in 2011. so we'd have the second best odds again. wouldn't be a bad thing. 
i wouldn't root for it like that, but i'd consider it silver lining to a crappy situation (i'd rather have bball)
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I would think it goes that way too ... we wouldn't have the Clippers pick again, but we'd still have the 2nd best odds of landing in the top 3 again. Maybe we should root for a lockout ... Lebron would miss another chance at a ring, and we might get another #1 pick. 
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I would think it goes that way too ... we wouldn't have the Clippers pick again, but we'd still have the 2nd best odds of landing in the top 3 again.
Maybe we should root for a lockout ... Lebron would miss another chance at a ring, and we might get another #1 pick.
lol, very true.
I go back and forth on if there will actually be a lockout. The owners have a much better case in the nba than they do with the nfl (they're actually losing money and have proven it) So maybe that helps? The players deep down know they are going to have to give.
I think the nfl players should stand firm. The NBA system is flawed and they know it.
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Chad Ford just posted his latest Mock. He has Knight going #3, and then us at #4 .... Quote:
Analysis: I've had Kanter in this position since Mock Draft 1.0, but it's time to make the biggest change I've made to our board. From what I gather, the Cavs appear to be cooling a bit on Kanter and warming to Valanciunas.
Vesely and Leonard are in the picture too and would both be good fits. But this may be the Cavs' only chance to draft a legit 7-foot center. Valanciunas is raw, but he has big upside.
I hope they are just blowing smoke, cause I would be bummed if we passed on Kanter for what could be a Z-clone.
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typical pre-draft stuff. i usually don't listen to what these guys have to say when you're this close.
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I wouldn't mind the (at worst) #5 pick and #32 pick in next year's draft. The only problem is we don't know if they will change the eligibility rules and change who is in it.
I'll cheer for basketball though. I want Irving and Kanter playing together and taking their lumps now.
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I saw an article where six current NBA owners were also owners during the NHL lockout. They missed an entire season and it was the owners who got the CBA they wanted. These guys know that the longer they wait, the greater chance of getting the CBA they want.
I have a feeling with the way the league is going its going to be a while before any basketball is played.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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My gut feelings says part of the season is at least missed.
I've said all along I don't think we miss one week of the NFL season, we may not even miss a week of the pre-season. I think the owners are putting this in motion now because they stand to lose $$ first, a preaseason game to them is the same as a regular season game. All revenue is pretty much the same outside of the tv $$. The players make nothing from that game. I think it's the one card they have in their backpocket.
With the NBA, gameday revenue is not as crucial if one game or a few games is missed. I think it could get into late november, or even december. I don't see the whole thing being wiped out nhl style though.
The NHL had worse problems than the nfl and nba combined. It was a league that needed a complete overhaul. They still aren't out of the woods. Bettman got them out of a bad spot, with the cap, the rule changes, and the versus/nbc deal which has actually done quite well (remember it was OLN before versus, and OLN turned into versus which i believe is gaining popularity)
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JMHO, the main difference between the nba and nfl situations is that, the owner's in the nba are already losing money. How much do they really hurt by missing games? The nfl owner's just were not making as much money as they would have liked.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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I have a feeling that Williams is going to be our #1 pick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The player contracts in the NBA are really unsustainable. The owners are just as much at fault as the players, and some drastic changes have to be made. I think a rigid salary cap is the only answer.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Quote:
I have a feeling that Williams is going to be our #1 pick.
What makes you feel that way?
Its a PG driven league, and we don't have a franchise PG. The consensus BPA is a PG who is widely considered to have a franchise PG ceiling with a starting PG quality floor.
I'd prefer to take Irving and then hope Kanter is there at 4 and take the BPA if he isn't, rather than take Williams and hope he can play the 3 and pair him with Knight or Walker who aren't true PG's.
I don't even believe Williams can play the 3 at the NBA level, I think he's too un-athletic to defend that position. I see us drafting him and then having to deal JJ Hickson in the future to make room for him if that scenario comes to pass.
I'd rather see:
Irving/Sessions
Davis/Harris
Eyenga/Graham
Hickson/Andy
Kanter/Andy
As our lineup to start next season over having:
Knight/Sessions
Davis/Harris
Eyenga/Graham
Hickson/Williams
Andy/Hollins
I mush prefer lineup 1 than lineup 2. And either way we go I see Baron Davis getting a lot of time at the 2, which in our Princeton offense is not such a bad thing I don't think, short term until we can move him at least.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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There have been reports that Gilbert really, really likes Williams .... and if he feels that Williams plus the 2nd best PG is better than Irving and anyone but Williams .... then I think that it's a strong possibility that he may talk the rest of the FO into Williams at #1.
I still have a feeling that we're going to do some kind of deal on draft day ..... so who knows?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I still have a feeling that we're going to do some kind of deal on draft day
I don't see how we don't given that our exception from the LeBron S&T is due to expire.
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It expires in July IIRC. That is fast approaching though. However, the front office has also said that they won't do a deal just for the sake of doing a deal. My dream draft has us grabbing another top 10 pick and getting Leonard to go along with an Irving/Kanter combination. Dream no small dreams.  LOL
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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However, the front office has also said that they won't do a deal just for the sake of doing a deal.
I just don't see how you waste that ... probably the most valuable piece of the S&T. The first rounders will likely amount to second rounders.
Realistically, when looking at the draft, what could we do with it outside of get another first rounder in exchange for taking on a bloated contract? That's pretty much the only viable option at this point, no?
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I would think so. The only way we grab an asset like Iguadola or someone is to give up picks along with the exception. I wouldn't be willing to do that. I would definitely look to add picks. Face it .... the more picks we add, the better the chances that we hit on a couple of players for the long term. I do trust Byron Scott to develop a PG ....whether we take Irving or wait and take Knight at #4. Further, I trust this coaching staff to deveop players. Look what they got out if scrap metal and spare parts last year. Obviously we didn't win a lot of games, but look at some of the individual production we got out of some guys no one had heard of before. lol I am excited about this draft, even though people are lamenting how weak it is. I think that we can come out of this draft with several average to above impact players. Mark price was soundly criticized before the 86 draft. He was too slow and too small to be an impact player. We're due for some good luck, so maybe we swing a deal for a 3rd top 1 pick ..... hit on one of our 2nd rounders ...... and off we go. Yeah .... I'm an eternal optimist. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I have a feeling that Williams is going to be our #1 pick.
I don't think so...lol...
Report: Cavaliers shopping Sessions, Davis “hard”
Kurt Helin
Jun 15, 2011, 1:38 PM EDT
In a little over a week the Cleveland Cavaliers are going to make Kyrie Irving their point guard of the future when they draft him No. 1 overall.
So they are trying to dump the point guards of now.
The Cavaliers are shopping Ramon Sessions and Baron Davis hard, according to Chad Ford of ESPN.
This is not really a shock, Session’s agent has said as much. And there will be a market for a solid point guard like Sessions — the Knicks, the Lakers and plenty of other teams might be willing to take him on. They are not going to give up a lot to get him, but there could be a deal there.
Davis is a different challenge. Davis has two years and $28.6 million left on his contract, so he will be more difficult to move (although the Clippers just did it). The Clippers wanted to move Davis in part because of concerns about his work ethic and impact on a young locker room — they feared he would teach more bad habits than good. But he played pretty well for the Clippers last season and has been a model citizen since coming to Cleveland.
The Cavaliers will have to give up some sweetener to move Davis, something they may not want to do. And teams will balk at taking on that salary before they see what the new Collective Bargaining Agreement looks like. But getting that salary off the books would be good for Cleveland.
END
WHY would we do Davis NOW and have to add to it???...No No No...
Keep him to mentor Irving for a year and sell his expiring in 2012 to the highest bidder...
Use Jamison's this year...
Those 2 are key in bringing in solid young guys...
Go Browns!!!
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If our coach was anyone but Byron Scott, mayyyyybe they take a shot on Williams, but you know Scott wants his point guard. Plus I think there's an outside shot at Williams being there at #4
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Quote:
If our coach was anyone but Byron Scott, mayyyyybe they take a shot on Williams, but you know Scott wants his point guard. Plus I think there's an outside shot at Williams being there at #4
I don't think Utah would pass on him. AK47 is out the door, and I don't see CJ Miles as their main plan for SF. Worst case scenerio is Minny takes Kanter, because Utah would probably pass on Knight for the much better Williams then.
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Quote:
Quote:
If our coach was anyone but Byron Scott, mayyyyybe they take a shot on Williams, but you know Scott wants his point guard. Plus I think there's an outside shot at Williams being there at #4
I don't think Utah would pass on him. AK47 is out the door, and I don't see CJ Miles as their main plan for SF. Worst case scenerio is Minny takes Kanter, because Utah would probably pass on Knight for the much better Williams then.
And that's our worst case...We end up with "V"...A project at best...YUCK...
Go Browns!!!
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agreed that is our worst case. i really want 2 of Irving/W_lliams/Kanter.
also, there is no way that Irving is not our #1 pick. he's the BPA, Gilbert loves him too (as if that matters but he showed it on lottery night seeking him out and giving him a huge hug), Byron Scott LOVES PGs and needs PGs for his system to work, and oh did I mention he's BPA.
I like Derrick Williams and will be very happy if we land him too, but I don't think our FO is going to outsmart themselves. Also, if they do and the draft goes: Derrick Williams, Kyrie Irving, Brandon Knight, then what the heck do we do then?
(and yes, Minny would take Kyrie. either for themselves if Rubio isn't coming over or to sell to the highest bidder as there will be much clamoring for his services)
#gmstrong
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i would not be 100% against a project with the #4. Who knows maybe you get the next dirk.
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Quote:
Derrick Williams, Kyrie Irving, Brandon Knight, then what the heck do we do then?
Take Kanter, and draft the Fountain of Youth for Byron Davis in round 2.
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well yeah, you have to take Kanter pretty much which gives us Hickson, Derrick Williams, and Kanter all with similar skillsets (even if in the best case scenario you play them at different positions).
not the best way to build the team and likely would mean a trade of one of them.
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Quote:
well yeah, you have to take Kanter pretty much which gives us Hickson, Derrick Williams, and Kanter all with similar skillsets (even if in the best case scenario you play them at different positions).
Well they're all Forwards/Centers ... so what kind of skillsets are you really looking for? Williams is a SF, he can shoot from range, and post up a bit if needed (he's like the anti-Lebron come to think of it), JJ provides some athleticism in the post at PF, and Kanter is your slightly undersized, but technically sound rebounder/center, who can also pop out and hit a few mid-rangers.
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my problem would be that they are all players that are at their best working on the block and in Scott's system you only need 1 player there at a time. So, you would only want 2 players like that on the floor at a time (so you can do left/right shifts based on what the defense is giving the guards).
yes, you could work around it and do some other things, but I would worry that we would end up with one of 2 scenarios (or possibly both):
1. Marginalize Derrick Williams to a 3pt shooter. With Enes and Hickson taking care of the block, he would float to the outside and wouldn't reach his potential.
2. Hickson would fall in love with being away from the basket again where he is really, really ineffective. It took Byron Scott yelling at him and benching him and taking away minutes until the allstar break for Hickson to finally cave and play in the post where he ended up going 17/11 the rest of the season. If there are other guys who can fill those spots, I can see him floating out and I really don't want non-post Hickson.
There are worse things (see last year's big men), but I don't want to end up like Minny drafting a ton of players that end up as PFs (they are trying to switch Beasely to SF and use undersized guys at C too).
#gmstrong
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I don't really care if Kyrie Irving is friends with Lebron, these guys all know each other. Lebron obviously wanted to invest in the guy, but I love that Irving seems to be drawing a bit of a line with it.
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The more I think about it, the more I worry that Minny will take Kanter at #2 and Utah will take Williams at #3. I saw some guys dreaming on a Cavs board about trading Andy to Minnesota straight up for the #2, but I'm thinking, why would they do that when they can just take Kanter to play Center.
Really that's the best move for them. If Rubio comes back, Center is probably their next biggest need. One option is to somehow get them to drop down to #4. We would take Williams, and they would be left with whoever Utah doesn't take from Kanter or Knight ... both need positions for them.
However, someone else made a good point though ... We should really go all-out for a PG and a Center this draft. I think that's why we're looking so hard at "V". Next year's draft will be loaded with SFs and tweener SF/PFs, so if we can secure our future 1 and 5, then we'll have a lot to pick from next year to lock down the 3 spot.
Getting Irving and Kanter might just be the best scenerio for us ...
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I don't think Minny would do that but there is a more realistic scenario for Minny:
AV + #4
for
#2 + #20
We get Irving / Williams. Minny still has a possible shot at Kanter (if Utah goes Knight) or whoever they think is the next best (Jonas-V, Vesely, etc.).
But, we still get a decent possible starter at #20 (Singleton, Faried, Honeycutt, Tristan etc.).
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Possible player of interest in a trade down scenario??? (Wing) Quote:
LullonSports Joe Lull
Cavs brass been talking bout Klay Thompson as lotto talent since December while rest of world had him in 2nd rd. Kudos 2 them.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Klay-Thompson-5490/
Go Browns!!!
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and now for something funny. Knight refusing to workout against Kemba/Jimmer because he considers them lesser prospects (which, to be honest, they are), but he then calls out Irving for not working out against him (which is because Irving's agents consider Knight a lesser prospect, which he is) http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/52020797-87/knight-jazz-guard-workout.html.csp
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I still think at the the end of the day a lot of teams are going to regret not taking Kemba.
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Quote:
I still think at the the end of the day a lot of teams are going to regret not taking Kemba.
I disagree.
Biggest bust in the draft, IMO.
Kemba Walker = Sebastian Telfair
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