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I'm really hoping the rumors of Kevin Love and the #2 pick for Pau Gasol aren't true. I really like Kevin Love and want to be able to root for him. If he's on the Lakers I don't think I will be able to do that.
Also, getting the #2 pick would allow the Lakers to fill their biggest hole (PG) with either Kemba Walker or Brandon Knight.
Whatever happens, it sounds like the Lakers are going to try and do something.
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If ....... If ...... If that trade happens ..... could we see Williams drop to the Cavaliers at #4?
The Lakers would be looking for a PG, as would Utah. If ths Cavaliers go Irving, then 2 more PGs go. then the Cavaliers could get their 2 preferred players without making a move.
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Who would be the 3rd PG selected? Kemba Walker? I just don't see it. I think if Irving and Knight go 1 and 2 then Williams is the #3 just because he is BPA.
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That would be a wonderful scenario for us but I'd give it about a 0% chance of happening. There have been a ton of rumors that they're working on a deal to trade Bynum and Odom (+ fillers) for Dwight Howard and one of Turkeyglue's or Arenas' terrible contracts. Keeping Gasol and pairing him with Howard is infinitely better than Brandon Knight and Kevin Love. Orlando knows Howard is leaving, and they will be hard pressed to get a better deal than that IMO. I'm actually pretty scared that this is inevitable. Can you imagine the Lakers having Kobe, Gasol, and Howard? That's another dynasty for the Lakers waiting to happen, which nobody outside of LA wants. But on the other hand, it would all but guarantee no title for Lebron, ever 
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Quote:
Who would be the 3rd PG selected? Kemba Walker? I just don't see it. I think if Irving and Knight go 1 and 2 then Williams is the #3 just because he is BPA.
I agree. There have already been some trade rumors about moving Millsap, so I think they'd be happy taking Williams to play the 4 and trading Millsap for a PG that's better than Kemba "I'm going to bust worse than Darko" Walker. I think they'd be pretty damned happy to see Williams slip to them at #3.
I also have been reading and watching a lot of film lately and the more I learn the more excited I get about an Irving/Big V combo. That's what I'm hoping we get out of this draft. That way we don't have to trade Hickson to make room for Williams, also.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I've talked myself into Big-V. I would be happy to take who's left between him and Kanter at #4, and get any one of the 4 highly rated SF's that are coming out next year.
One more thing to point out about this buy-out situation, it could be a blessing in disguise ... if this lockout happens, then Big-V playing in Europe for a year, and getting playing experience might not be such a bad thing. On top of that, after next year, we could even bring back Big-Z (as either a player or coach), and have him serve as the perfect mentor for Jonas, right down to the English lessons.
The one thing that scares me about the lockout ... if we draft Kanter, he could be out of basketball for up to 2-years.
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j/c
I think that there could be guys worth picking at #32 that could make this team though. here's a list of candidates (starting with less likely to actually be there)
1. Tyler Honeycutt, UCLA (he's been doing well in workouts unfortunately)
2. Nikola Vucevic, USC (legit C size. I don't think he gets past SA)
3. Travis Leslie, Georgia (SG who should thrive in Byron's system. ridiculously athletic and should be a huge boon to defense and in transition. he's not much of a shooter, but he could definitely help the bench)
4. Jimmy Butler, Marquette - SF who is decent at everything, but no 1 tool that makes him an obvious NBA fit, which is why he would drop. That said, he fits a huge hole on the roster and could very well make the team.
5. Jeremy Tyler, Japan - he'd be more of a longshot, but why not take a chance on the kid (if his head is now screwed on right). Legit size cannot be taught and he could benefit from coming back over. He's more of a longshot than any of the others on this list though.
6. Norris Cole, C-State - 32 is right in his range and if we trade either Baron or Sessions we will need a 3rd PG. Might as well get one with decent size that can develop (I think he could become a defensive stopper in the NBA).
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What about Dallas Lauderdale from OSU in the late 2nd? Not as a starter but a guy like Glen Davis, coming off the bench and playing Defense, get a couple boards and a few hard fouls.
I know, I'm an OSU homer but while watching him play I thought he could develop into a decent Big coming off the bench.
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Keeping Gasol and pairing him with Howard is infinitely better than Brandon Knight and Kevin Love.
While that's true, you also have to look at the future.
This move would allow the Lakers to get much younger. Love is a double double every night, and Knight is a scoring machine. I question where he'll play in the NBA, but the guy can score from anywhere on the court.
If the Lakers can unload Gasol, and pick up Love, then Knight at #2, that's a GREAT move for the Lakers, IMO.
It would be ideal for us, as well.
#1 Irving
#2 Knight
#3 Williams (Hard to imagine Utah passing on him if he's there, because like someone said earlier, he's BPA)
#4 Kanter (Who I STILL maintain is the best player in this draft).
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I don't see how that benefits the T-wolves all that much. Seems one sided wayyy toward the lakers.
But again, this is David Kahn we're talking about here.
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nm, I thought you were talking about the Lakers getting howard.
Last edited by FreeAgent; 06/21/11 11:13 AM.
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Listening to all the trade scenerios, we could very well have a pick in the middle of the first ... some guys to consider there: Quote:
Klay Thompson SG 6’6 205lbs Junior
After earning the “soft” label almost exclusively as a great perimeter shooter in his first 2 years in college, Klay has developed nicely into one of the nation’s best scorers as evidence of his gaudy 22 ppg average. His touch and body control are outstanding using the dribble-drive to get to the basket and has become far more than just a 3 point shooter. NBA GM’s are may look to transform him into a high scoring SF or bigger SG at the next level but still could stand to add weight and improve defensively. Indiana fans will love the pick of Thompson as many compare him to former Pacers great Reggie Miller.
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Bismack Biyombo C 6’9 240lbs International
Prior to this year’s Nike Hoop Summit, not many fans outside of the Spanish Leagues in Europe had heard of the 18 year old native of the Congo. But after blocking 10 shots and registering the Hoop Summit’s first ever triple-double, against USA’s best HS Players I might add, NBA GM’s are slobbering over his amazing talent and athleticism. He already has an NBA sized body and may already be as fast as anyone running the floor at his position. Despite being a dominating and intimidating force on defense, his offensive game is very raw. A tremendous shot blocker using his quick reflexes, length (7’7 wingspan) and explosiveness to protect the rim. Scouts are intrigued with him as you don’t often find a combination of his physical attributes along with his energy level and motor. After initially projected as a Lottery pick, some have soured after showing virtually zero offensive skill in private workouts, although he did recently predict he would lead the NBA in rebounds and blocked shots. With Houston’s history of success with International players and Yao Ming probably not returning, Biyombo may get big minutes immediately playing alongside the offensive minded Scola up front.
Too bad Biyombo is only 6'9 - 240 ... if he was a little bit bigger, you'd be looking at a Kendrick Perkins or Mutumbo type defender in the middle.
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I don't see how that benefits the T-wolves all that much. Seems one sided wayyy toward the lakers.
I agree ... why would they give up a young up-and-commer like Love AND the #2 pick just to get an aging/soft guy like Gasol?
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What about Dallas Lauderdale from OSU in the late 2nd? Not as a starter but a guy like Glen Davis, coming off the bench and playing Defense, get a couple boards and a few hard fouls.
I see what you're saying, and I don't disagree with a guy like Lauderdale, but here's the two issues I have with that.
#1 - If you want a guy like Lauderdale, he's most likely going to be available after the draft. I doubt he gets drafted.
#2 - We're not a team like Boston. Davis worked out for Boston, because they had the "Original Big 3" with Garnett, Pierce, and Allen. Throw in a rising star in Rondo, and a guy like Davis works.
We don't have the pieces to have the luxary of drafting a guy like that to pick up some garbage minutes. We need to spend every pick trying to find playmakers. In the late 2nd, I'm looking for guys who have tremendous athletic ability, that might have flown under the radar a little bit.
The three guys I'm looking at at #54 are Travis Leslie (Georgia), Cam Long (George Mason), and my favorite DeAndre Liggins (Kentucky).
Liggins is my favorite, because he's gotten better EVERY year at Kentucky. After his Freshman year, Gillispie got fired, and Calipari brought in 4 NBA first round draft picks to go along with Patrick Patterson, Darius Miller, Jon Hood, etc. A lot of fans thought Liggins wouldn't see the floor under Calipari, because he looked soooo bad his Freshman year.
His sophomore, he sat the first 9 games, came in and became a great defender. Shutting down a lot of the top players he played against. But didn't have much of an offensive game.
Junior year, he put an offensive game with his already great defensive game.
I think Liggins is a first round talent in this draft, that's flying under the radar a bit. If he's there at 54, he's who I want.
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I don't want Lauderdale, I was not a fan of his at Ohio State. If you're gonna pick a Buckeye, go get David Lighty. I love his work ethic and defense. I think he could possibly develop into a nice rotation guy. Someone who can come off the bench, not a sixth man. Probably more of a 7/8th man. If he was a bit bigger, he'd probably hover around the late 1st round.
If he can defend and shoot like he did at Ohio State, I think he'll have a job in the league for a long time.
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A Josh Smith trade anyone? Probably not to us ... but it could change the draft landscape ..... http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/30165870Report: Atlanta Hawks consider Josh Smith trade? Posted on: June 21, 2011 8:38 am Edited on: June 21, 2011 9:53 am The Atlanta Hawks are reportedly considering trading forward Josh Smith. Posted by Ben Golliver. Finally, someone other than Philadelphia 76ers forward Andre Iguodala is involved in a trade rumor! Yahoo! Sports reports that the Atlanta Hawks and forward Josh Smith might be headed for a break-up. The Atlanta Hawks have started to gauge trade interest on forward Josh Smith, and Smith isn’t averse to ending his seven-year stay with his hometown team, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Monday. Smith hasn’t requested a trade, but has privately told league friends that the Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic are his preferred destinations should the Hawks decide to move him. “The relationship has run its course,” said a league source with knowledge of the dynamic. Smith is on the books for $12.4 million next season and $13.2 million in 2012-2013. Those are hefty numbers but his versatile game is probably worth it. At 25, Smith has flirted with figuring it out over the course of his NBA career, but always seems to revert back to his bad habits: poor shot selection and moody behavior. An exceptional athlete and game-changing defender, Smith is at his best when fully motivated and engaged, attacking the basket and using his leaping ability to play above defenders. He stuffs the stat sheet, averaging 16.5 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.6 blocks and 1.3 steals in 34 minutes per game in 2010-2011. Smith has never been selected as an NBA All-Star, but he's been on the fringes of the discussion in recent years. Smith should be able to produce those numbers, or similar, for at least the next three to five seasons. One factor for teams interested in trading for him: He will likely command a sizable contract when his current deal is up, as he will be hitting free agency at the age of 27. Of the teams listed, the New Jersey Nets and Orlando Magic jump out of the group in terms of having a specific positional need. In Orlando, Smith would be paired with childhood pal Dwight Howard to make the best four-five combination in the league. Houston would be an intriguing option too, and the Rockets, with two first round picks and lots of young talent, might very well be able to present the Hawks with the best offer.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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i'd be a bit shocked if Leslie lasted until #54. with his athleticism and defense I think he's a late 1st but more likely early 2nd round pick. he's basically Christian Eyenga with a much more refined game and someone is going to be willing to gamble on that promise.
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At 25, Smith has flirted with figuring it out over the course of his NBA career, but always seems to revert back to his bad habits: poor shot selection and moody behavior. An exceptional athlete and game-changing defender, Smith is at his best when fully motivated and engaged, attacking the basket and using his leaping ability to play above defenders.
He sounds like a poor-man's Lebron. 
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I'm not huge on Smith. He's a hell of an athlete, but I don't think he's a very good basketball player. 16 & 8 are good numbers but he just doesn't pass the eye-test with me.
Now if they wanna talk about dealing Horford, i am all ears, lol.
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would love to have JaJuan Johnson PF, Purdue, Big Ten Player of the year and Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year at #32.
He's 22, 6'10", 220 lbs.
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There have been a ton of rumors that they're working on a deal to trade Bynum and Odom (+ fillers) for Dwight Howard
The Lakers are now run by Jimmy Buss. He personally discovered Bynum and drafted him. He has some weird personal attachment to him and refuses to trade him for anyone. Which is why trading Gasol is the more likely (only?) option.
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I'm not sure that Pau Gasol is really an intriguing trade asset ... especially for a team looking to rebuild. He's on the wrong side of 30 (31 in July), he plays defense so soft that Phil Jackson smacked him in the chest, and he's on the hook for around 18.5 million a year until 2014.
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yeah, Pau wasn't much of an asset in his early prime for a struggling team, I don't see why he would be in the twilight of his prime.
now, if I was a team with an enforcer at center, Pau would be great. which is why I worry about Pau getting teamed up with Dwight. hopefully, Jimmy Buss really is so attached to Bynum that he doesn't trade him for the best center in the NBA (though you'd think Lakers FO staff would point out to him that he could brag that he found the guy that allowed them to trade for Dwight)
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The number of possible trade scenerios I've seen for the Cavs lately has been crazy.
I've seen the original, "trade exception to Detroit" for the #8, which was supposed to of been a done-deal back in February.
There's a possible, Ramon sessions to New York for the #17th.
And now I've seen the #4 to Washington to get the #6 and #18.
The last one would be under the assumption that Kanter (who I guess Washington really likes) is on the board at #4, and the Cavs would be willing to trade down a bit to take Jonas and wait a year at #6.
Would be crazy if we walked away with 5 picks in the first round.
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Which is why the Lakers would be very open to trading him now. And remember, Kahn is trying to save his job. And we all know that GM's make horrible decisions when trying to save their jobs. The T'Wolves would be a borderline playoff team if they got Gasol. If they draft Williams they are just a lottery team with too many tweeners (Williams, Randolph, and Beasley).
Rubio, Wes Johnson, Beasley, Gasol, and Milicic is not a horrible starting five. And they would have Flynn and Randolph coming off the bench. And they could market the Gasol/Rubio tandem as the Spanish Connection.
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I think Dwight ends up in LA regardless. If I were the Magic, I'd consider dealing him. They aren't contenders, and they'd save themselves the humiliation of watching him walk away and getting nothing for him (outside of very little in a S&T)
I'd wait until the season starts and then put it out there that he can be had. I think even a renter would put up a nice package to give away.
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I think Dwight ends up in LA regardless.
Going to be REALLY hard for him to go to LA through Free Agency, unless he wants to sign for the MLE.
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On the outside it seems that way, but once Orlando knows he's not coming back, they'll take anything, even a beat up, uninspired andrew bynum.
The NBA, where the rich get richer.
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Quote:
Quote:
I think Dwight ends up in LA regardless.
Going to be REALLY hard for him to go to LA through Free Agency, unless he wants to sign for the MLE.
Don't forget we facilitated LeBron going to Miami.
If he wants to go to the Lakers, a S&T will be worked out.
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I can't speak for everyone, but I know I was of the sort that thought DG would NEVER allow Lebron to get his deal and go where he wanted, but that's exactly what happened.
It's the smart business move, although I bet DG had to be convinced it was in the franchise's best interest.
I agree. If Howard wants to go to LA or if Player A wants to go to city A, B, or C, it'll happen.
It sounds like the idea of the NBA adopting the "franchise tag" similiar to what the NFL has, is not gonna happen either. Apparently Stern loved that the NBA got good ratings even after a season of pretty bad pub for the league and for the league's most advertised player. (plus, into the season, once Carmelo got his wish, there was more bad pub for the league)
As Cavs fans, we know it's now stacked against us just like it is in baseball. You've got to hit your draft picks, you've got to make small signings that end up exceeding expectations, and you know that cap space means diddly poo. A big/bad contract, means as much, probably more than cap space does. Top tier guys just aren't going to come to Cleveland.
Although I'm under the assumption that not a whole lot changes for the NBA. You may see a hard cap but I think the structure will probably be close to the same. The league has a better case against the players than the NFL does with the NFLPA, but no league's players mean more to the health of their league than the NBA.
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I can't speak for everyone, but I know I was of the sort that thought DG would NEVER allow Lebron to get his deal and go where he wanted, but that's exactly what happened.
It's the smart business move, although I bet DG had to be convinced it was in the franchise's best interest.
Still angry we did it.
Illogical , I know... but still angry.
Especially now that I doubt that exception will net us much.
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Don't forget we facilitated LeBron going to Miami.
If he wants to go to the Lakers, a S&T will be worked out.
Yes, but he could of gone to Miami for a little less anyway. They actually had cap space. The sign and trade was so that Miami could give more money to Lebron, and that we would at least get something back in return (a few token draft picks) ... If Miami was maxed out on the cap, and Lebron still wanted to play there, he would of had to sign for the MLE. Dan Gilbert probabaly would of signed off on that with his middle finger.
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It may turn out that letting LBJ go on his own to get his deal would net us the same as doing what they did with the exception and picks, etc.. but you can't knock the Cavs for that. Even if the exception goes unused, you had to at least get it in case the opportunity came around. Turns out it may not (Although you never know with Thursday coming up)
I know that is a really hard thing to accept, but it's more about us getting better than it is spiting lebron. I'd hand the Larry O'Brien to Lebron this or next year if it meant we were getting one within a few years.
I don't care about Dan Gilbert's half-hearted promise that we'll get one before Lebron. I think he was caught up in the emotions of that night like we all were, and if Lebron does get one before we do, I won't think any less of him.
I just want one, I don't care if he or anyone gets it before us, I just want to see a championship.
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Does anybody else have an absurdly pessimistic outlook towards this draft that no matter what we do it won't go well? Or is it just me?
It's almost like I don't want the draft to happen.
Sounds like there are no difference makers, and we pick two guys.
Despite us picking #1 and #4, we likely won't be picking either of the two biggest difference-makers in the NCAA tournament this year, despite them both playing our positions of biggest need.
What's not to like?
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Kemba and Jimmer? Knight and Derrick Williams had good tourney's as well, but I would put them below those first two.
College success does not always equal NBA success. I know you have been beating on the Kemba drum, but he's at best Jason Terry (IMO). That's not bad, but you have to shoot for a higher ceiling (which I believe Irving has).
for our second pick (#4), I want legit size. if we can get a guy who can play the 5spot well that is worth a ton. that guy looks to be Enes (though I've read plenty of scouts that prefer Jonas-V...they must have seen something in him that we can't see on the limited tape we have available).
I wouldn't complain with Derrick Williams as he would make our team the best next year (w/ Baron at PG), but I'd prefer taking the BPA (almost all believe it's Irving) and not worry about next year's record.
------------------------------
personally, I think this is going to be a ridiculously fun draft. it seems like there will be a record number of draft-day trades with so many prospects grading out evenly and different teams targeting different players.
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Despite us picking #1 and #4, we likely won't be picking either of the two biggest difference-makers in the NCAA tournament this year, despite them both playing our positions of biggest need.
Kemba Walker and Matt Barnes?? Or you mean Jimmer? NCAA success doesn't translate into NBA success ... look no further than Adam Morrison.
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use the ncaa tournament as a guideline, not the law for what it takes to play in the nba.
the one thing i like to look at, is defense, cause it seems to be the one thing that you can equate both the college and pro to. I like to see if the best guy on one team is willing to try and shut down the best guy on the other team, given that there isn't some ridiculous center to point guard size mismatch.
When I watch Harrison Barnes next year, I want to see if he's willing to step up and challenge whomever the best perimeter player he's facing that night.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
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I can't speak for everyone, but I know I was of the sort that thought DG would NEVER allow Lebron to get his deal and go where he wanted, but that's exactly what happened.
It's the smart business move, although I bet DG had to be convinced it was in the franchise's best interest.
Still angry we did it.
Illogical , I know... but still angry.
Especially now that I doubt that exception will net us much.
Best thing out of all of it for me is that Miami as of now has something like five draft picks in the next five drafts. They've got boatloads tied up in the Wade, LeBron and Bosh contracts, and hefty chunks to Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem as well. That's why I chuckle when people say that not winning it all this season wasn't a failure for Miami...they're set up for the very short term. This is especially true if the league goes to the hard cap that everyone is expecting. They'll be relying on the willingness of various over the hill vets to be role players.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753 |
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The number of possible trade scenerios I've seen for the Cavs lately has been crazy.
I've seen the original, "trade exception to Detroit" for the #8, which was supposed to of been a done-deal back in February.
There's a possible, Ramon sessions to New York for the #17th.
And now I've seen the #4 to Washington to get the #6 and #18.
The last one would be under the assumption that Kanter (who I guess Washington really likes) is on the board at #4, and the Cavs would be willing to trade down a bit to take Jonas and wait a year at #6.
Would be crazy if we walked away with 5 picks in the first round.
There was one back a few weeks ago about Charlotte's #9 and #19 for #4 as well.
And of course the Josh Smith and Rudy Gay rumors as well.
Makes me think this could be a very fun weekend.
One other thing I didn't realize is that we have a roughly $1/2 million trade exception for the Delonte trade as well (according the the ESPN trade engine).
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,834
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,834 |
Quote:
The number of possible trade scenerios I've seen for the Cavs lately has been crazy.
I've seen the original, "trade exception to Detroit" for the #8, which was supposed to of been a done-deal back in February.
There's a possible, Ramon sessions to New York for the #17th.
And now I've seen the #4 to Washington to get the #6 and #18.
The last one would be under the assumption that Kanter (who I guess Washington really likes) is on the board at #4, and the Cavs would be willing to trade down a bit to take Jonas and wait a year at #6.
Would be crazy if we walked away with 5 picks in the first round.
You know ..... I keep thinking about this .... and what if we did do something like this? Maybe not 5 picks in the 1st ....... but maybe 4 .... and then we trade 1 or both of our 2nd rounders for players of future picks? (or to facilitate a trade using our trade exemption)
Load up on solid, if not absolutely spectacular rookies. Build a solid base of the team. Obviously a team like that wouldn't win a tremendous number of games next year, (but hopefully we would identify a couple of guys with star potential) so we'd draft high again in next year's (loaded) draft. Plus .... we have an extra 2nd rounder in that 2012 draft. (New Orleans' pick via Miami) With the quality of the division that New Orleans plays in, that could be a middle of the round(ish) pick. That could give up 3 picks in next year's draft in the top 45 or so.
Maybe I'm just dreaming ........ but we could look really good (and very young, with a couple of tradable assets to add a quality veteran or 2) in a couple of years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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