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1. At least in public, the Browns insist they aren't worried about linebackers as they switch to the 4-3 defense. They talk about Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita and D'Qwell Jackson as the starters, and how they should be respectable. That's hard to believe, especially as Jackson played six games in 2009 and none last season. He has had two pectoral injuries, and it's not wise to assume he can stay healthy for a full season. 2. Fujita is a very effective outside linebacker, but he missed five games in 2009 and seven in 2010 because of knee injuries. He's athletic enough to play in the 3-4 or 4-3. The Browns must keep him healthy. 3. The one durable linebacker is Gocong, who has missed only one game in the last four seasons. He was on the field for 987 snaps, the only Browns defenders to play more were T.J. Ward (1,079), Abe Elam (1,071) and Matt Roth (1,041). He probably will be the middle linebacker, although the Browns have also talked about playing Jackson in the middle -- they believe Gocong can handle any of the three linebacker spots. 4. Because the Browns were in a 3-4 defense last season, evaluating Gocong means comparing him to all other 3-4 inside linebackers. According to profootballfocus.com, he was the 10th best inside linebacker. Their complicated system rated Lawrence Timmons (Steelers), Patrick Willis (49ers) and Bart Scott (Jets) as the top three. 5. Among all linebackers in any system, Gocong rated No. 11 in "quarterback pressures." Those are not sacks or even quarterback hits, but the quarterback was forced to make a quicker throw or run out of the pocket. Gocong rushed 152 times, and 11 percent of the time, it resulted in a quarterback pressure. Because he had only two sacks, it's easy to dismiss Gocong as a pass rusher -- but these stats say otherwise. 6. The real problem facing new defensive coordinator Dick Jauron is that so many of linebackers are OK for the 3-4 system, but not the 4-3. That defense requires more speed from the outside linebackers. So effective 3-4 linebackers such as Matt Roth, David Bowens and Eric Barton don't fit. All are free agents and not expected to return. Nordonia's Jason Trusnik returns, but he is considered mostly a backup and special teams player. 7. Roth is a very effective player, especially against the run -- ranking No. 5 in all linebackers, according to profootballfocus. He also led the Browns with 40 quarterback pressures. Next were Marcus Benard and Gocong with 16, so that shows how Roth made an impact. He could play defensive end in a 4-3, but Roth wants to stay in a 3-4 defense -- and also wants to play for a winner. 8. Benard is under consideration as a pass-rushing defensive end. The reason the Browns switched from the 3-4 to the 4-3 is partly because GM Tom Heckert and his staff believe it's easier to find players -- especially linemen -- for the 4-3. Adding draft picks Phil Taylor and Jabaal Sheard to join Ahtyba Rubin helps the line. Benard also should fit as a pass rusher. But they didn't draft a linebacker. No doubt, Heckert will add a linebacker once free agency and trading resumes. Heckert did turn Alex Hall into Sheldon Brown and Gocong in a deal with the Eagles last year. But he has a lot of work to do in this area. http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/06/terry_plutos_talkin_about_brow_13.htmlAt this moment the defense looks like a shambles. Can we give up less than 30 points a game? the starting LBs are suspect with no depth, The DL is a work in progress. Three. possibly, legit starters. Need at least one safety. 
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Well, it makes Gocong sound better than I thought, but I didn't realize Fujita had missed that many games. I know he's getting old.
LB is our biggest weakness, we got no depth and questionable starters. Maiava and Trusnik our top two backups? Maybe we can sweet-talk Roth.
Heck, we need a deal!
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I think they are gonna bring in some younger guys (UDFA's), and I think the LB Bradley of the Eagles could be on Heckert's radar.
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Quote:
1. At least in public, the Browns insist they aren't worried about linebackers as they switch to the 4-3 defense. They talk about Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita and D'Qwell Jackson as the starters, and how they should be respectable. That's hard to believe, especially as Jackson played six games in 2009 and none last season. He has had two pectoral injuries, and it's not wise to assume he can stay healthy for a full season.
2. Fujita is a very effective outside linebacker, but he missed five games in 2009 and seven in 2010 because of knee injuries. He's athletic enough to play in the 3-4 or 4-3. The Browns must keep him healthy.
3. The one durable linebacker is Gocong, who has missed only one game in the last four seasons. He was on the field for 987 snaps, the only Browns defenders to play more were T.J. Ward (1,079), Abe Elam (1,071) and Matt Roth (1,041). He probably will be the middle linebacker, although the Browns have also talked about playing Jackson in the middle -- they believe Gocong can handle any of the three linebacker spots.
4. Because the Browns were in a 3-4 defense last season, evaluating Gocong means comparing him to all other 3-4 inside linebackers. According to profootballfocus.com, he was the 10th best inside linebacker. Their complicated system rated Lawrence Timmons (Steelers), Patrick Willis (49ers) and Bart Scott (Jets) as the top three.
5. Among all linebackers in any system, Gocong rated No. 11 in "quarterback pressures." Those are not sacks or even quarterback hits, but the quarterback was forced to make a quicker throw or run out of the pocket. Gocong rushed 152 times, and 11 percent of the time, it resulted in a quarterback pressure. Because he had only two sacks, it's easy to dismiss Gocong as a pass rusher -- but these stats say otherwise.
6. The real problem facing new defensive coordinator Dick Jauron is that so many of linebackers are OK for the 3-4 system, but not the 4-3. That defense requires more speed from the outside linebackers. So effective 3-4 linebackers such as Matt Roth, David Bowens and Eric Barton don't fit. All are free agents and not expected to return. Nordonia's Jason Trusnik returns, but he is considered mostly a backup and special teams player.
7. Roth is a very effective player, especially against the run -- ranking No. 5 in all linebackers, according to profootballfocus. He also led the Browns with 40 quarterback pressures. Next were Marcus Benard and Gocong with 16, so that shows how Roth made an impact. He could play defensive end in a 4-3, but Roth wants to stay in a 3-4 defense -- and also wants to play for a winner.
8. Benard is under consideration as a pass-rushing defensive end. The reason the Browns switched from the 3-4 to the 4-3 is partly because GM Tom Heckert and his staff believe it's easier to find players -- especially linemen -- for the 4-3. Adding draft picks Phil Taylor and Jabaal Sheard to join Ahtyba Rubin helps the line. Benard also should fit as a pass rusher. But they didn't draft a linebacker. No doubt, Heckert will add a linebacker once free agency and trading resumes. Heckert did turn Alex Hall into Sheldon Brown and Gocong in a deal with the Eagles last year. But he has a lot of work to do in this area.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/06/terry_plutos_talkin_about_brow_13.html
At this moment the defense looks like a shambles. Can we give up less than 30 points a game?
the starting LBs are suspect with no depth,
The DL is a work in progress. Three. possibly, legit starters.
Need at least one safety.
There was nothing in this article I did not disagree with. I am glad how it enlightens that Roth was far more effective then some of the trashers have labeled him and crowed good riddance. I hope we try to keep him.
Also Mr. Glass DQ cannot be counted on. The only surprise i did not agree with was the effectiveness of goCong who I thought was slow to react. yet if Profootball focus breaks down tape and just does not pontificate I am impressed he may be more effective than I previously thought.
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I am also surprised about Gocong.
But let's not forget that he flat out stunk as a 4-3 lb,and that was reason Heckert got him so cheap.
As many on here posted last year,he's a better fit in the 34.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Legend
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Gocong was not good in the beginning of last season but really stepped it up in the second half of last year.
TBS, the observation that he has previously been terrible in the 4-3 is not a good sign.
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When will you understand that Roth does not want to be here?
He is not a 4-3 LB and does not want to play DL.
You have made this some sort of personal vendetta against either Roth or you. It's not. It's very simple.
If Roth is willing to play DL, I'd bet we will surely try and sign him.
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For the most part i realize the defense needs work. We won't be amazing and while we WILL have some young talent ... we will be shifting to yet another new style. It will be a big year to see how the young players fit. Can Haden and Ward take steps forward to become reliable, consisten, and even leaders? Will D'Qwell and the rest of the linebackers prove themselves? And can the young DLine look like a REAL defensive front?
Other than that ... to me it seems like we need to target 1 (or 2) players in the secondary, linebacking core, and defensive line in free agency. the rest will be rotational / developmental players as we build the defense and not look to finish it off.
If our draft picks pan out and we can take care of a few holes with free agents, then we will be a ball hawking coverage safety and a pass rushing freak away from a top flight defense ... next year. Until then ... it's just execute, swarm to the ball and hope the offense scores points. I don't think we have *horrible* linebackers but at this point I don't fear a single front 7 defender if I am an opponent ... and especially not the linebackers.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Quote:
Quote:
1. At least in public, the Browns insist they aren't worried about linebackers as they switch to the 4-3 defense. They talk about Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita and D'Qwell Jackson as the starters, and how they should be respectable. That's hard to believe, especially as Jackson played six games in 2009 and none last season. He has had two pectoral injuries, and it's not wise to assume he can stay healthy for a full season.
2. Fujita is a very effective outside linebacker, but he missed five games in 2009 and seven in 2010 because of knee injuries. He's athletic enough to play in the 3-4 or 4-3. The Browns must keep him healthy.
3. The one durable linebacker is Gocong, who has missed only one game in the last four seasons. He was on the field for 987 snaps, the only Browns defenders to play more were T.J. Ward (1,079), Abe Elam (1,071) and Matt Roth (1,041). He probably will be the middle linebacker, although the Browns have also talked about playing Jackson in the middle -- they believe Gocong can handle any of the three linebacker spots.
4. Because the Browns were in a 3-4 defense last season, evaluating Gocong means comparing him to all other 3-4 inside linebackers. According to profootballfocus.com, he was the 10th best inside linebacker. Their complicated system rated Lawrence Timmons (Steelers), Patrick Willis (49ers) and Bart Scott (Jets) as the top three.
5. Among all linebackers in any system, Gocong rated No. 11 in "quarterback pressures." Those are not sacks or even quarterback hits, but the quarterback was forced to make a quicker throw or run out of the pocket. Gocong rushed 152 times, and 11 percent of the time, it resulted in a quarterback pressure. Because he had only two sacks, it's easy to dismiss Gocong as a pass rusher -- but these stats say otherwise.
6. The real problem facing new defensive coordinator Dick Jauron is that so many of linebackers are OK for the 3-4 system, but not the 4-3. That defense requires more speed from the outside linebackers. So effective 3-4 linebackers such as Matt Roth, David Bowens and Eric Barton don't fit. All are free agents and not expected to return. Nordonia's Jason Trusnik returns, but he is considered mostly a backup and special teams player.
7. Roth is a very effective player, especially against the run -- ranking No. 5 in all linebackers, according to profootballfocus. He also led the Browns with 40 quarterback pressures. Next were Marcus Benard and Gocong with 16, so that shows how Roth made an impact. He could play defensive end in a 4-3, but Roth wants to stay in a 3-4 defense -- and also wants to play for a winner.
8. Benard is under consideration as a pass-rushing defensive end. The reason the Browns switched from the 3-4 to the 4-3 is partly because GM Tom Heckert and his staff believe it's easier to find players -- especially linemen -- for the 4-3. Adding draft picks Phil Taylor and Jabaal Sheard to join Ahtyba Rubin helps the line. Benard also should fit as a pass rusher. But they didn't draft a linebacker. No doubt, Heckert will add a linebacker once free agency and trading resumes. Heckert did turn Alex Hall into Sheldon Brown and Gocong in a deal with the Eagles last year. But he has a lot of work to do in this area.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/06/terry_plutos_talkin_about_brow_13.html
At this moment the defense looks like a shambles. Can we give up less than 30 points a game?
the starting LBs are suspect with no depth,
The DL is a work in progress. Three. possibly, legit starters.
Need at least one safety.
There was nothing in this article I did not disagree with. I am glad how it enlightens that Roth was far more effective then some of the trashers have labeled him and crowed good riddance. I hope we try to keep him.
Also Mr. Glass DQ cannot be counted on. The only surprise i did not agree with was the effectiveness of goCong who I thought was slow to react. yet if Profootball focus breaks down tape and just does not pontificate I am impressed he may be more effective than I previously thought.
I agree, I was a little surprised about Gocong.. he didn't seem to be that good, but like you said, if they break down the film and he shows that well, then I stand corrected and am glad as hell about it.
As for Roth, he's stated publicly that he prefers the 3-4.. so I'm guessing he won't be resigned. I liked Roth,, thought he did a decent job.. But if he doesn't want to be here (for whatever reason) then that's that...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I will say this: I thought Gocong struggled at the beginning of the year but got pretty good as the season went on. With that said, Profootballfocus is a joke. Their system is complete crap. Stats simply can't be used to analyze football players.
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Legend
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I disagree, stats are very important. Quote:
Raheem Morris, head coach of the 4-2 Buccaneers, says that "Stats are for losers." Well, Raheem, I have just one thing to say to you.
I agree.
Most football stats are pointless. Total yards, field goal percentage, fantasy stats, total tackles, and the king of all bad stats--passer rating--are not much more than trivia. Coach Morris prefers to focus on wins, saying, "...you keep looking at stats and we'll keep looking at wins." Here, we are in complete agreement.
At the time Morris made the comment, he was confronted by a reporter with his team's standings in terms of total yardage gained and allowed. Those statistics can be very misleading and are often disconnected with winning. How do I know that? From other, better statistics.
Quote:
Everyone, except fantasy fanatics I suppose, agree that winning is what ultimately matters. So let's start with wins and work backward. We can ask which numbers or combination of numbers explain and predict the wins and losses we see on the field. That would tell everyone, coaches included, about what really makes a winner. Just as an example, consider the statistic most directly connected to winning and losing: Win Probability. How could that statistic have been useful to Morris? It might have saved Raheem from one of the dumbest coaching decisions of 2009.
Football stats, at least the ones most people have traditionally focused on, are pretty worthless. But good stats can teach us a lot about a sport that literally paints its field with numbers. You'd be a loser to think otherwise.
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/10/raheem-morris-says-stats-are-for-losers.html
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I don't have the energy to get into this debate right now, but I firmly believe that when it comes to analyzing a player, stats are 95% worthless.
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Legend
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Bad stats are red flags. Stats never scored, or tackled. But they can help with trends and things that need attention. I never ever rely on them and trust them to be the last word. Each stat has some variables attached. So take them with a grain (or a pound of) salt. Some need ignored.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I hate the "Stats are for losers" line.
Statistics are a record of performance in games. They provide a common frame of reference and can be used to show trends and analyzed further to to find indications about players when perhaps you don't have hours to watch game tape. How can they be useless?
What's key is to acknowledge that they don't tell the WHOLE story. They don't talk about who they lined up across from or what the weather was etc etc etc. Nor do they track the many aspects of football that are not recorded formally as stats. But saying that they are 95% useless is ridiculous and is an excuse for someone to trump facts with opinions.
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As to the subject of the post, I continue to believe that Kaluka Maiava will become a much bigger part of this team with the move to the 4-3. He'll be quality depth this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see him grow into a starting role.
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Quote:
I will say this: I thought Gocong struggled at the beginning of the year but got pretty good as the season went on. With that said, Profootballfocus is a joke. Their system is complete crap. Stats simply can't be used to analyze football players.
Well sure, if you live and die by stats alone,, you most likely will not get the results you want. But to use them as a tool, as one part of the overall analysis of a player, I think they serve a valuable purpose.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Post deleted by Dawg Duty
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Quote:
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As to the subject of the post, I continue to believe that Kaluka Maiava will become a much bigger part of this team with the move to the 4-3. He'll be quality depth this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see him grow into a starting role.
Yeah, and Veikune had a non-stop motor. I think they were just another couple of blown draftpicks.
Except for the fact that Maiava actually got snaps and played pretty well when given the opportunity despite the fact he was miscast in a 3-4.
He'll do very well in the 4-3.
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Quote:
Quote:
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As to the subject of the post, I continue to believe that Kaluka Maiava will become a much bigger part of this team with the move to the 4-3. He'll be quality depth this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see him grow into a starting role.
Yeah, and Veikune had a non-stop motor. I think they were just another couple of blown draftpicks.
Sure and then Balt willtrade us Ray Lewis for him.
Except for the fact that Maiava actually got snaps and played pretty well when given the opportunity despite the fact he was miscast in a 3-4.
He'll do very well in the 4-3.
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Sure and then Balt willtrade us Ray Lewis for him.
Well given that your argument thus far has contained so much great insight and observation, you surely must be right. Someone certainly drank a nice big cup of hater-ade this morning.
This isn't me being the orange coloured glasses guy. When Maiava made the field in 2009, I thought he played well. He plays nice pass coverage and is a good tackler. Problem with him in the 3-4 is that he was too small. The only thing that saved him is that he was strong.
But hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
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All Pro
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No matter what year you reference since 1999,the Browns have lacked a serious playmaker at LB....this group is really no different.
No matter the regime they have failed to find that Ray Lewis/ Demeco Ryans kind of LB...
how many LB'ers have the Browns had where the OC said,"we have to run away from this guy or neutrialize him".....
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Sure and then Balt willtrade us Ray Lewis for him.
Well given that your argument thus far has contained so much great insight and observation, you surely must be right. Someone certainly drank a nice big cup of hater-ade this morning.
This isn't me being the orange coloured glasses guy. When Maiava made the field in 2009, I thought he played well. He plays nice pass coverage and is a good tackler. Problem with him in the 3-4 is that he was too small. The only thing that saved him is that he was strong.
But hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
Maiava is really quick and tenacious. He is also very solid in pass coverage. He will be a solid weakside linebacker imo
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I would say jamir miller was close to being that guy.
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In response to the story Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about Browns' linebacking needs, cleveland.com reader d3dawgpound has his eyes on a player that could help the Browns in 2012. This reader writes, "I really like the direction the Browns are going in, but I think they need an impact linebacker and have been calling for them to draft Vontaze Burfict from Arizona State with their first pick in 2012. A lot can happen between now and then, but he seems to be the middle linebacker that this team has been lacking for a long time." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/06/eyeing_a_linebacker_in_2012_dr.htmlMaybe someone that is a draftnick can comment on this ^ player, but the need for a terror at ILB is clear
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Legend
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Quote:
"I really like the direction the Browns are going in, but I think they need an impact linebacker and have been calling for them to draft Vontaze Burfict from Arizona State with their first pick in 2012. A lot can happen between now and then, but he seems to be the middle linebacker that this team has been lacking for a long time."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/06/eyeing_a_linebacker_in_2012_dr.html
Maybe someone that is a draftnick can comment on this ^ player, but the need for a terror at ILB is clear
I definitely like his aggressiveness.. he packs a big bite too.. players remember him after games..
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I would love to get mini Ray Lewis. He plays nasty as hell to the point where he gets penalties.
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For the limited time Maiava made it onto the field beginning of last year (maybe preseason?), he had clearly lost some speed. I don't know if he was injured or if it was just the added weight, but he was not fast or quick.
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He had added 15- 20 pounds, IIRC.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
Speed is Kaluka Maiava's game, and he knows it. That's one reason why the Browns' third-year linebacker is looking to play at 225 pounds this season in Cleveland's newly installed 4-3 scheme.
Pro Football Weekly
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Is it weird that even though I played some receiver and corner in college and have *almost* stayed in the same size of pants since then that I am at about 217 to 220 ... and yet Maiava is doing it as a Linebacker? 
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Quote:
Speed is Kaluka Maiava's game, and he knows it. That's one reason why the Browns' third-year linebacker is looking to play at 225 pounds this season in Cleveland's newly installed 4-3 scheme.
He also makes up for his lack of speed with his instincts and high football IQ.
He was somewhat out of place in our old 34, yet he still managed PT in our nickel and dime packages. I would be surprised if he is not more of a factor in our new defense. Plus he is a good ST's LBer as well.
He probably won't be asked to rush the passer much and if there is a weakness to his game, it would be that, but that is pretty much a moot point if he plays the (wil) position in our new defense.
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