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Problem with Clabo is that he's 29 and supposedly wants a 6-year $42 million contract.
And I don't buy that with Edwards. Last year he was the only guy on that defensive line who gave any effort. He was much better than Allen last year.
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Vickers fatal flaw is his one dimensional skill set.
How can we know if he's one dimensional or not. He blocks extremely well, we don't know if he can carry the ball because he's not been given a real opportunity,, we don't know if he can catch the ball because he's not been given the opportunity..
At least not in games.
What if Shanahan hadn't given Hillis the opportunity to start (actually, my understanding is that hillis was the last man standing and tere wasn't much of a choice)
Now, having said that, If they tried him out at running and catching in camp and he couldn't do it.. fine. But I've never once seen that reported. Not that I read every single article out there, but still, this is something I'd have read.
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we don't know if he can catch the ball because he's not been given the opportunity..
At least not in games.
you mean like having 2 very easy passes thrown to him against NO from McCoy (one that would have been a likely walk-in TD) that Vickers let bounce off his hands when no defender was around him?
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Problem with Clabo is that he's 29 and supposedly wants a 6-year $42 million contract.
And I don't buy that with Edwards. Last year he was the only guy on that defensive line who gave any effort. He was much better than Allen last year.
Whoa, thats a steep price. Problem is he'll probably get it. After necktie, I'm a bit hesitant to sign Falcon oline players.
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Lawrence Vickers Collegiate Stats in case anyone is interested in such things.
how does one get 1 PR for a TD with 0yds? Fumble recovery in the endzone?
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Quote:
Quote:
we don't know if he can catch the ball because he's not been given the opportunity..
At least not in games.
you mean like having 2 very easy passes thrown to him against NO from McCoy (one that would have been a likely walk-in TD) that Vickers let bounce off his hands when no defender was around him?
As if two passes dropped is proof positive he can't catch.. Gheesh You will need a much larger sampling to convince me..
Like I said, maybe in practice he dropped everything also,, maybe that's why they didn't throw to him much.. dunno..
Last edited by Damanshot; 06/29/11 04:38 PM.
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Quote:
Lawrence Vickers Collegiate Stats in case anyone is interested in such things.
well, it looks like he caught some passes in college and it looks like he had a decent average running.
Actually, he's got better college stats then Owen
http://stanford.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=383997
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To be fair though ... Owen was more of a goal line back ... 25% of his carries were good for TD's (9 of 36)... and I can't imagine how many others were "line up... hit 2 yards - then be swarmed by the other team's front 7 plus both safeties"
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it's not proof positive, but you said he didn't have the opportunity in games, and I say that when he was presented with the opportunity he failed to produce.
the NFL is results oriented. if you want more of something, then make sure to capitalize if you get the chance on it. yes, this can be to a fault, but it is what it is.
and I hate defending this side of the equation because I really like Vickers.
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how does one get 1 PR for a TD with 0yds? Fumble recovery in the endzone?
Vickers College Detail
2004 Game Analysis
Colorado State … Picked up 4 yards on two runs, 17 yards on two catches and leveled defensive tackle Blake Smith to clear a hole used by QB Joel Klatt for a 1-yard scoring run to finish a 63-yard, 12-play drive in the first quarter.
Washington State … Did not get a chance to carry the ball, but recovered a blocked punt in the end zone for a touchdown.
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Problem with Clabo is that he's 29 and supposedly wants a 6-year $42 million contract.
Tackles can usually play at a high level up until around 35 and 6 for 42 isn't that bad considering how the pricetag for OL is skyrocketing in general. Now with that said, I would really target Doug Free but the 40 million dollar questions is just how content is Heckert with Pashos?
Wouldnt mind trading for Steve Smith as the one big move for offense. I think he brings talent and would be a great teacher for the young receivers.
Honestly, Heckert is really going to earn his money in a few days. He has the cap space to dramatically alter the core of this team.
On defense, I think the weakness of the team at the end of the season was right up the middle.
Adding Phil Taylor really helped up front. Taylor and Rubin should be a dominate force for years to come. Kinda reminded me of that Bills line that destroyed our OL a few years ago. They were in the quarterback's face as soon as he took the snap.
I don't think Gocong nor DQ would be that bad at MLB but not bad doesn't equate to being a stud in the middle. I could really see Jauron wanting his guy in Pozluzny. Thing is How much of an upgrade would Poz really be?
Want a stud secondary? Resign Wright move him to free safety. He is terrific in zone and really good at reading the quarterback. I think it would translate well to safety.
Now go out and land a Grimes or Carlos Rogers in free agency..
Rogers, Haden on the edge. Ward and Wright at safety. Sheldon as your nickel. That would be a sweet secondary and it would allow the pass rushers time to do their job. Hell with that group, we could get away with not bad at linebacker.
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I'd much rather get a proven FS like Weddle than gamble that Eric Wright can make the transition. Not every corner can, or wants to. I'd take Huff if we couldn't get Weddle, he's the second best safety that's available for what we need. I like Whitner but he'd be a disaster starting next to Ward.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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My opinion of Huff really dropped after hearing Sapp just rip him to shreds lol If the guy doesn't want to practice and doesn't want to listen to his coaches, he isn't worth a roster spot.
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Yeah, even before I read Sapp's rant, I thought Huff sounded like a major underachiever.
Weddle is the guy I'd love to get.
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Name 5 tackles in the past 10 years who have played at a reasonable level until they were 35. Pace retired when he was 34 but was released by the Rams when he was 33 and was over the hill before then. Ogden retired when he was 32. Walter Jones is probably the closest you will get and he last played at 34. Anthony Munoz also last played when he was 34.
Very few tackles are able to last until they are even close to 35, much less someone as big and (relatively) slow-footed as Clabo.
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We'd probably cut him before his entire contract is up
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Lomas Brown....Willie Roaf.....Bruce Armstrong....Stan Brock
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it's funny because when we drafted vickers, everyone was still high on terrelle smith. then posters said the draw for vickers is that he's a more versatile fb who could catch out the backfield. his rookie season, we like TS go and we saw vickers make some catches and people were more understanding.
i doubt vickers lost that ability to catch the ball, but that being said, whether fair or not, they clearly think marecic is a significant upgrade over vickers, despite other areas of need, so they must be very high on him. just as we were happy with vickers over smith, we will likely be happy with marecic over vickers. i wasn't happy at first to draft a fb so highly but keep in mind, this is a flat out football player who also blocked for gerhart (a heisman finalist hillis-mold player) who might be a better football player, and most likely has a better understanding of the game, having played both ways.
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Guess you missed "in the last 10 years". Also, that was only four.  And the point remains that very few players do it.
Candy, that's not the point. The point is that unlike what Mourg said, very few tackles last that long and it's an incredibly expensive contract for an aging right tackle. And this is a team that already has two offensive linemen making $7 million a year.
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Quote:
it's funny because when we drafted vickers, everyone was still high on terrelle smith. then posters said the draw for vickers is that he's a more versatile fb who could catch out the backfield. his rookie season, we like TS go and we saw vickers make some catches and people were more understanding.
i doubt vickers lost that ability to catch the ball, but that being said, whether fair or not, they clearly think marecic is a significant upgrade over vickers, despite other areas of need, so they must be very high on him. just as we were happy with vickers over smith, we will likely be happy with marecic over vickers. i wasn't happy at first to draft a fb so highly but keep in mind, this is a flat out football player who also blocked for gerhart (a heisman finalist hillis-mold player) who might be a better football player, and most likely has a better understanding of the game, having played both ways.
I think there were those, me included, that looked at drafting Vickers as more of a youth movement. That can't really be said in this case.
LIke I said, there is more to this... Just have no idea what it is and pretty sure we never will..
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Larry Allen, willie Roaf, Flozell Adams, Walter Jones and Ogden all played to around 35. Just the ones off the top of my head and I forget the Chiefs tackles that were old and played well for several years past their prime.. Also we have seen a lot of tackles that lose a step and slide inside to guard.
Again, I would go after Doug Free and put together a big, physical line that can pass protect and knock people on their ass.
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Isn't Matt Light a free agent? I know he's normally a left tackle, but he would be a nice addition for a few years.
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You said tackles can usually play till around 35 then gave me a list of 5 guys who did (and only 1 or 2 of which actually did). 5 guys of many is hardly "usually".
I love Clabo but he isn't worth what he will get and neither is Free. Free is going to re-sign with the Cowboys for big money.
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Yea Light is a free agent. He helps the class thats for sure.
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Can't underestimate the ties between player and coach.
Quintin Mikell would certainly be near the top of Jauron's wish list right along with Eric Weddle.
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I'd much rather get a proven FS like Weddle than gamble that Eric Wright can make the transition. Not every corner can, or wants to. I'd take Huff if we couldn't get Weddle, he's the second best safety that's available for what we need. I like Whitner but he'd be a disaster starting next to Ward.
Ya,... I chuckle every time I see someone thinking EW can move to Safety.
(Not to mention he might be free to sign with another team)
EW would be a disaster at Safety imo.
He is a poor tackler to begin with and being that your Safety's are your last line of defense, you have to count on them to clean up after a RB gets lose in your secondary.
I think that Weddle would be a great compliment to Ward, but I never get my hopes up too high that we will bring in some big name talent in FA.
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I love Clabo but he isn't worth what he will get and neither is Free. Free is going to re-sign with the Cowboys for big money.
cowboys will be cutting players to get under the cap and it will be very difficult for them to resign Free. Very slim chance he resigns with the Cowboys.
Thing that is really interesting is Atlanta trades away all those picks for Julio Jones and they could lose 3 starting offensive linemen and their best corner in Grimes. The defense that couldn't get off the field is losing their best player and you will have to introduce 3 new pieces to your offensive line puzzle.
Looking at their brutal schedule and the pieces they could lose, the Browns may end up with a top 10 pick from the falcons.
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Looking at their brutal schedule and the pieces they could lose, the Browns may end up with a top 10 pick from the falcons.
We can only hope so 
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Quote:
Quote:
Looking at their brutal schedule and the pieces they could lose, the Browns may end up with a top 10 pick from the falcons.
We can only hope so
Either the Falcons suck...
Or they lose the SuperBowl to us because of a Julio Jones dropped pass...
Yeah that sounds about right... 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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jk
First off, I have absolutely no "insider" info. And...
I am a firm believer in building thru the draft and only making "big" FA acquisitions when a team is on the cusp of competing for a Championship. That said...
I think H & H are going to really go after some young talent once FA opens.
I think that this "blip" is a once in a career thing...that being with so many players being free at once. I think of it like this...if players used to be restricted after their 5th year and now are free after their 4th year (I don't really care what the #s are, just hang with me for a minute), then for this year only there are arguably two years worth of newly free'd up FAs.
The guys who in the past would have been restricted - guys who just finished their 4th year - PLUS the guys who just finished their 5th year.
I know that you can't really say it's twice as many FAs since I'm not studying the actual # of FAs that would have existed under the old - and then added thru the new - rules. However, I think they are primed and ready to go get some young talent and attempt to make up for the past 10 years of poor drafting.
I don't think they will sell out like a team who thinks they are on the verge of winning it all...but I think we could see them make an attempt to become a playoff team right now.
A stud DE, stud LB, and a stud-like compliment to Ward and this Defense has the chance to jump to a playoff-caliber defense. Depth may remain an issue but isn't it already?
I think they think the Offense is set for 2011-12. I'd feel better about that if I "knew" that Little was a stud-in-the-making...if Hardesty was 100% healthy...and if Pashos would start every game this season....but we could never "know" that anyway.
I just don't know. I have this feeling that H & H are confident enough in their talent evaluation - of current NLF players AND the draft - that they are viewing this "blip" of FAs as their chance to turn this team into a playoff contender...and do it right now. (Playoff contender...not necessarily Super Bowl contender.)
With two #1s and our own #2 and #3 for next year's draft...and with H & H making the calls on draft day...and with the idea of getting the studs I mentioned above...
Dreaming? Maybe. But this looks like a good time to get some very good, young talent right away...a bit of a perfect storm if you will.
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I just don't know. I have this feeling that H & H are confident enough in their talent evaluation - of current NLF players AND the draft - that they are viewing this "blip" of FAs as their chance to turn this team into a playoff contender...and do it right now. (Playoff contender...not necessarily Super Bowl contender.)
I too cannot wait until the National League of Football gets back underway...
...it's a slow day, leave me alone...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I doubt it is that high, but it could be a teens pick.
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Bengals OL Willie Anderson
Chiefs OL Will Shields?
I forgot a few others--
Hutchinson from Seattle?
Go Browns!
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Willie was 32, Shields was 34 and Hutch is 33.
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1) Jonathan Joseph CB, This kid may allow us to move Sheldon Brown to safety, who may be a better option than the free agent safeties available. brown has a nice nose for the football, a solid tackler and his loss of a step would be less a concern at safety. Joseph at Corner would not leave the team exposed if eric Wright does not make it back in his head. Once a solid corner he lost it confidence wise last year.
2) Gaither OT Ravens, we are in such deniel with Pashos who we pencil in as a starter in spite of the reality he has missed the last THREE SEASONS and was not all that mobile before. he was tossed from Oline starved SF, and Jax and promptly got injured in Cleveland. The backup options should not be NFL starters so gaither SHOULD gather some notice, yet i see our front office in total denial.
3)Kiwanuka, DE Giants, Injured yet with a great upside and young as well. Could be a real hidden gem.
4) Steve Smith, a nice addition at WR who would be a starter immediately and be a solid improvement.
5) this is a risk and I would not offer him top money but DeAngelo Williams may be worth a look. Maybe not. Injured a lot but we need someone here. I would invite Ricky Williams for one season for the veteran minimum.
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Of course, as with any FA signing the price must be right.
#1 Brandon Mebane - He makes sense because he has ties with Holmgren and would give us a great DT rotation without having to start the rookie.
#2 Jerrious Norwood - We need a 3rd Rb and he rounds out our backfield. He gives us a speed guy with good hands who cold carry the load for a few games if needed. He should come relatively cheaply.
#3 DE - If we can get one at the right price we could use one. But I think we stick with Sheard, Robairre Smith, Mitchell, Bernard and probably sign an undrafted FA because I just think any DE worth signing will want to be way over paid to come to Cleveland rather than a playoff hopeful.
#4 Torry Holt - I know this will receive some criticism but he is well versed in the West Coast offense and will be a tremendous locker room presence. Especially in the Wr room. These young guys seeing what he does to get ready for each and every game will go along way in their development down the line. I am thinking a 1 year contract at the veteran minimum.
#5 RT - Again I may get criticized for this but I think as long as we resign our own FA linemen (Womack and Yates) then our o-line will be pretty good.
#6 Safety - Probably the position that will receive the most criticism. I would move Cribbs to FS. Let's face it. The Cribbs at Wr experiment has been less than successful. And I have believed for a long time that free safety would be his best position (he can cover a lot ground and can catch the ball so there should be a fair number of interceptions, he would be a real ball-hawing safety who becomes very dangerous once he makes an interception and he has shown on special teams that he is an excellent tackler). I haven't mentioned this before because the past two years he was much too valuable on offense especially to run the wildcat but with Shurmur phasing out (eliminating) the wildcat he really has no role on the offensive side of the ball.
#7 Lb - I am not sure I would sign any of these guys. Are they that much of an upgrade compared to what they would cost us?
While premature, next years draft seems like it will be deep at the positions that we will be looking at. If McCoy stinks it up there are likely 3 top 10 Qb's in next year's draft. Wr is really deep should we decide we are not as satisfied with our current wr's as we portend to be. And The draft is deep at linebacker - both inside and outside backers.
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Here's a question for ya (or anyone).
Do we think that cleveland is actually becoming respected by the players yet to be a legitimate contender? Or is it still too far off.
I know older players are going to an immediate contender, but are we able to compete for the top free agents yet (like a stud DE) without paying millions more than any other team?
Other than that I like you points except on Holt. I wouldn't be against him but I think we are more or less solid on receiver ... at least for now.
My guess is we carry 6, but we might carry 5 if we think we have enough "receiving" ability in both Evan Moore and Jordan Cameron. Feel free to disagree.
Even with 6 we have Little (going nowhere), Cribbs (most likely not being moved anytime soon), MoMass and Robiskie (relatively safe as they are cheap and still have a lot of upside). We also have Mitchell and Haggerty - both supposedly loved by Heckert even though they are a day 3 pick and an undrafted kid as well.
We also have Demetrius Williams as somewhat of a veteran and Jordan Norwood who is a PS player trying to carve out a role.
I could definitely be wrong but I don't see Heckert making the big play for any big name receivers. Besides drafting Jeremy Maclin in the first the last 1st rounder he spent on a wideout was freddie mitchell in 2001. They also got Reggie Brown in the 2nd in '05 and Desean in the 2nd in '08.
So .. my point is basically that I don't think Heckert's philosophy is needing to invest in the best wideouts as much as it is building the team. And seeing what Bradford could do as a rookie with Danny Amendola last year might have reinforced that concept with shumur?
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Personally I don't think players think that we are close to becoming a perennial playoff team. But I might be biased because I think we are 2-3 seasons away. But I guess we will find out soon what the current FA's think. Our advantage is with players previously associated with Shurmur or Holmgren (like mebane).
As for Holt, I wouldn't expect much production but I think having a hard working veteran would go along way to helping these young receivers. Our current guys are not long out of college so when they put in an extra 2 hrs of film study per day they think they are working hard because that is 2 hours more than they are use to. But then they see a veteran putting in 4-6 extra hours/day and realize that what they thought was a lot of extra work is really well below what the average NFL players does.
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Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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