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Quote:
sooo... anybody else notice we're being no-hit through 7?
The way we've been hitting there not count it as a actual no-hitter
We need outfielders yesterday
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ESPN said the last time we were no hit was in 1993 by Jim Abbott. At least this pitcher has 2 arms...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
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Has anyone ever been no hit, while scoring a run?...
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Yeah, it's happened a few times. I think one guy threw a new hitter and gave up (err ... 2) runs.
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Has anyone ever been no hit, while scoring a run?
Cant tell ya the team & dates but yes a few times, If my memory dosent fail me, there was a pitcher I think with the pirates pitched a no hitter & lost like 0-2 or something like that back in the 60's.
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Nevermind. It's happen more often than I thought.
1993 Darryl Kile no-hit the Mets, and the Astros won 7-1 was the most recent.
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I think there have been a few teams that were no hit and actually won. I'm thinking Matt Young in 92 or 93 from Red Sox.
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
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I can't believe you're serious. Quote:
The catcher "ole'ed" the tag, and almost missed him completely with an unnecessary swipe move.
Out of curiosity, how would you miss a tag a little? Dude was out.
I'm sorry to you Tribe fans for momentarily hijacking this thread, I'm done with it. People see what they see.
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GO ROCKETS
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Well I was wrong about Young, but it did happen twice according to that list.
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
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It looked to me like a bad call, and it was the kind of call that usually goes to the defense if there is any question. He appeared to tag the runner on the leg a good 2 feet away from home plate.
It was almost like the Unpire decided that he'd had enough of the game, and he was gonna make sure it ended there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Cant tell ya the team & dates but yes a few times, If my memory dosent fail me, there was a pitcher I think with the pirates pitched a no hitter & lost like 0-2 or something like that back in the 60's.
Harvey Haddix threw 12 perfect innings for the Pirates on 5-26-59. Lost it in the 13th and lost 1-0.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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Out of curiosity, how would you miss a tag a little?
Have you played baseball? People miss tags all the time ... granted it's harder to do when the guy is right on top of you. But just because you wave the glove at a guy doesn't automatically make it a tag.
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Another game where Santana has more errors than hits.
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We need to pick a spot for him, C or 1B, and stick with it. The back and forth crap isn't helping anybody.
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5 errors in the game so far and no hits. Pathetic. I think reality is setting in with this team.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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I wouldn't be upset if that spot was somebody else's roster, in exchange for someone who can actually play at the big league level. And he can take LaPorta with him.
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5 errors in the game so far and no hits. Pathetic. I think reality is setting in with this team.
Yikes ... 
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5 errors and no hits ..... wonder if we won?  We played such solid defense earlier in the year, and it was a huge part of us winning games. We didn't give them away. I think that some guys are pressing, and it's affecting their defense. If I'm Acta, I tell them that there's no excuse for not playing defense. Hitting can be stifled by a great pitcher .... but defense should be every day.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Have I ever played baseball, lol. We're going to that card?  Again, I'm done with it here. People are going to see what they're going to see. God forbid the video get in the way.
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GO ROCKETS
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Yeah, I know your not a fan of Santana, but I can't give up on him yet. He's only got about a year of playing time at this level, half of it jumping around positions on D. He tore it up last year though, that has to account for something.
LaPorta on the other hand hasn't tore up snot since AA ball and has had plenty of time to show at least some upside in the bigs. He hasn't. I can't agree enough with ya on that one.
This happens way too much with our hitters though. It's like we "coach" the talent out of them by constantly tinkering with they're swings.
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If Lou Marson was catching this game we probably would've won.
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IMO, the spot for Santana is the Columbus Clippers. He has seriously regressed this year, both defensively and offensively. Or, maybe the pitchers have just figured him out.
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Have I ever played baseball, lol. We're going to that card?
Well, when you ask something like "How could you miss a tag a little" ... I start wondering if you've played. People miss tags all the time, and if you've played before, you've likely missed a tag at some point ... some by a little, some by a lot.
And I'm the one who posted the video. 
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I don't like Santana because he absolutely blows defensively. Worst catcher in the AL. It would be mitigated somewhat if he could hit, but he's batting what, .240 maybe? He was supposed to be a guy who could hit .290. "Major League ready" was the term. Don't care that he draws lots of walks, either, because walks don't put the ball in play.
Edit: Santana is hitting .227 (.229 over the last 30 games, which negates the "he's been better lately BS argument) and has an absolutely miserable OBPS of .771.
Last edited by Adam_P; 07/27/11 02:46 PM.
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A walk is as good as a hit.
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A walk is as good as a hit.
Good one ... can I use that?
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I'm willing to give Santana at least another tear to rebound.
It seems like he just got off to a bad start, and has never figured out how to recover. Hopefully he'll figure it out over the off-season.
He does have 15 HR and 47 RBI .... so he is contributing some, even with his spotty hitting.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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When was the last time a walk scored a guy from second or moved a guy from first to third?
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If Lou Marson was catching this game we probably would've won.
yes, because Lou Marson would have saved the Indians from the 4 non-Santana errors. he also would have gone 3/3 with 3 HRs for the win, right?
we all get you hate Carlos Santana and refuse to look at anything other than Batting Average. however, this loss was a team effort. everyone gets a big pile of dog poo for their postgame buffet (except Huff who pitched another gem)
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A walk is as good as a hit.
For a 1 or 2 hitter. Not for your run producing, middle of the order guy. He needs to drive in runs. Walks don't produce runs, especially when your walking to bring up O-Cab, Kearns and the rest of our .220 hitting mashers.
Adam -- I'm not trying to make the argument that he's been playing good or anything this year, I can't and he hasn't. I just think that maybe his problems consist of a) not having a consistant defensive position to settle into, B) he's still awfully green at this level, where he has shown some success. Unlike LaPorta.
He's sucked this year and should not be hitting where he is in the order, but what else do we have? In my mind we have to give him until this time next year, if we're still having this conversation, then I will agree with you, say you were right and listen to you say 'I told you so'. 
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Santana had two errors. Passed ball allowed a run to score. Overthrown pick-off attempt allowed a runner to advance to third, where he then scored on a single on which he would've otherwise only advanced to third. By my count, that's two runs as a result of errors on Santana. We lost by two runs. Lou Marson has the highest pick-off percentage of any catcher in the AL and is one of the best defensively. True, he's not a good hitter but neither is Santana. From a defensive standpoint I feel far more comfortable with Marson catching, and their hitting is a wash. So yeah, I think we'd have had a better shot to win with Marson catching.
And no, I'm not just looking at BA. I'm also looking at OPS (miserable) and errors (top of the list).
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I still have some hope for Santana, but I don't like the guy's body language.
I have more faith in him than I do Laporta. You just know the Tribe will cart him out there as much as they can because they don't want to chalk up the fact that the centerpiece of the CC deal is a complete bum (despite the fact that Brantley is turning into an all-star caliber player)
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listened to it on the radio and they called it a wild pitch (Carlos was only charged with 1 error on the day). I just looked at the box-score and it is listed as a passed ball. didn't see the play, so I can't tell you if it was the right call or not (but that means we really have 6 errors on the day).
just to have the actual numbers for both our catchers. Santana, even disappointing, is still much better than Lou at the plate.
Carlos Santana BA:.227 HR/AB: 1/22 OBP:.324 OPS+:117
Lou Marson: BA:.242 HR/AB:1/128 OBP:.293 OPS+:79
Defense. Lou is miles ahead of Carlos though Carlos has allowed fewer 'passed balls per game' (even if baseball-reference.com doesn't list today's game yet and that holds up from last year as well).
Carlos Santana E/G: 1/15 PB/G: 1/22 CS%: 23%
Lou Marson E/G: 1/21 PB/G: 1/14 CS%: 47%
I have also heard our pitchers have a lower ERA with Marson catching, but I can't find those numbers. If you can, please post.
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Quote:
listened to it on the radio and they called it a wild pitch (Carlos was only charged with 1 error on the day). I just looked at the box-score and it is listed as a passed ball. didn't see the play, so I can't tell you if it was the right call or not (but that means we really have 6 errors on the day).
just to have the actual numbers for both our catchers. Santana, even disappointing, is still much better than Lou at the plate.
Carlos Santana BA:.227 HR/AB: 1/22 OBP:.324 OPS+:117
Lou Marson: BA:.242 HR/AB:1/128 OBP:.293 OPS+:79
Defense. Lou is miles ahead of Carlos though Carlos has allowed fewer 'passed balls per game' (even if baseball-reference.com doesn't list today's game yet and that holds up from last year as well).
Carlos Santana E/G: 1/15 PB/G: 1/22 CS%: 23%
Lou Marson E/G: 1/21 PB/G: 1/14 CS%: 47%
I have also heard our pitchers have a lower ERA with Marson catching, but I can't find those numbers. If you can, please post.
i don't have the numbers but i have heard several in the media mention that Lou handles the pitchers better and the stats back it up.
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yeah, Hammy brought it up a few times today, but they never said the actual numbers. it'd be interesting to see how big of a split it really is (but I'm not making the effort to compile all of it  )
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I didn't see the first error but the box score listed it as a passed ball. Regardless, a passed ball isn't recorded as an error for statistical purposes anyways.
I did see the error in the 9th though (I'm at the sports book at Caesars in Vegas). Santana chucked a pick-off attempt over Kipnis' head and into the outfield. The runner moved to third. Next batter hit a single into shallow right.
I'd look into the ERA stats of Marson vs Santana but I'm on my iPhone and it's a royal pain in the butt. I think the general consensus, like others said, is that Marson handles the pitchers better.
Look, I'm not saying to unload these guys because they have a rough game or two. The way the team is playing is just exemplary of the arrogance of the front office in trying to convince us that they fleeced these teams when we got prospects like LaPorta and Santana, and by severely overvaluing the prospects it already has. They're so convinced that these guys are the path to greatness that they're totally unwilling to deal to help the team now. It's like they think that LaPorta, Santana, Chisenhall, Kipnis, White, Pomeranz, Carrasco are all just going to suddenly flip the switch at the same time and it's going to be 1995 all over again. The reality is that some if these guys are going to struggle, slump, get hurt, or just flat out never get it at the big league level. By the time they accept that inevitability, they'll just be trying to sell us on the next list of can't-miss 20 year olds
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I'm at the sports book at Caesars in Vegas
ok, stopped there. i'm insanely jealous. that is all.
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