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Bart Scott: No 2-a-days makes NFL soft
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ESPNNewYork.com
New York Jets linebacker Bart Scott was not happy when told that the league may eliminate two-a-day practices in training camp as part of a new collective bargaining agreement, according to the Newark Star-Ledger.
"I think it's wimping out, making football more soft," Scott said, according to the newspaper. "No reason to try and make camp easy.
"I get concerned you're making football players weaker because you don't push them past that threshold. ... I get concerned with the same thing with the quarterback stuff, that they turn it into flag football; they turn it into little pansy stuff."
Scott sang a little different tune during informal workouts during the lockout.
After a workout at Rutgers on Wednesday, Jets linebacker Jamaal Westerman said that Scott had been one of the most conservative players when it came to contact during the Jets workouts in New Jersey a few weeks ago.
"I was talking to Bart and he was like, 'Make sure you don't hit anybody,'" Westerman said. "Cause like anything else, no one is under contract so you don't want to get anybody hurt. There's no pads, no equipment. Of course you get your reads, of course you try to get the movement down, but at the end you always pull up and let the offense make the catch."
It's not just the hitting that Scott says will be missing if two-a-days are eliminated.
"You're stealing reps from coaches," Scott said, according to the Star-Ledger. "Even if you put those reps into the front of practice, what's the quality going to be? Eventually that cuts down on the quality of the product, (when) we're already behind. Now you're trying to go full-speed running, when you're absolutely dog tired, and that's when you get pulls and stuff like that."
Scott said he might do extra work on his own if he feels that practices without two-a-days aren't giving him what he needs.
"Two-a-days, it's what football is all about," he said, according to the newspaper. "It's about endurance, pain, will, putting yourself through something when your body is telling you it doesn't want to go. Your mind controlling your body. That's what camp is all about. With one-a-days, guys might not be in as good of shape as they would have been. Camp tears you down, and then a smart coach starts pulling back in enough time that allows players' bodies to build back up."
Information from ESPNNewYork.com's Jane McManus was used in this report.
All good points, IMO.
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::standing ovation::
For these guys to make so much, I don't see the problem w/ two-a-days.
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... and, most of the time, the players aren't in full pads for both practices anyway. I don't get it either.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Well, what's the weather like outside? More than 20 people have dies from heat-related "illness" this summer, and how many are 300 pounders running around in the sun?
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That is the one issue I don't understand. Why run 2-a-days in this kind of heat? It's a disaster waiting to happen. All NFL teams should have an indoor complex to use if the temp gets above 85. In that case, yes, 2-a-days should be 1 or none-a-days. But if the weather is fine, go for it.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Maybe they can just make the one practice longer.
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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2nd String
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Or maybe the PROFESSIONAL athletes can do away with the pads and helmets, and we'll just watch the National Flag Football League (NFFL).
Last time I checked, isn't each one of them making roughly at minimum $400K+ a year?
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How much was Bryant McKinnie making?
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You trying to say Korey Stringer?
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I concur, "The more you sweat in training the less you will bleed in battle"
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Two-a-days aren't necessary at the pro level. These guys already know how to play and are better off being kept fresh for the long haul.
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Quote:
Two-a-days aren't necessary at the pro level. These guys already know how to play and are better off being kept fresh for the long haul.
I would leave that decision to the professionals, but if I had to levy an opinion, I'd simply take note of how many professional players absolutely lack some of the most basic fundamentals.
The successful make a habit of doing the things that nobody else wants to do; you can't learn if you don't remain teachable.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Two-a-days aren't necessary at the pro level. These guys already know how to play and are better off being kept fresh for the long haul.
Actually it is necessary at any level.
The whole point is to get the team in shape physically as well as mentally prepared to play the game and if you can achieve that, then you will suffer far less injuries in play. That's a fact that people in the business are well aware of.
Some will cite the heat as an excuse and it is a point duly noted, but that's an intangible that we can not control and one in witch proper judgment should be used and normally is.
No Coach wants to wear out his team either. These men are professionals and know what they are doing for the most part.
Let the Coach's coach!
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Quote:
I'd simply take note of how many professional players absolutely lack some of the most basic fundamentals.
like tackling.. Cleveland Browns fans are WITNESSES.
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Quote:
The whole point is to get the team in shape physically as well as mentally prepared to play the game and if you can achieve that, then you will suffer far less injuries in play. That's a fact that people in the business are well aware of.
So the more you play, the less injuries you have?
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No but you don't go from watching "Revenge of the Nerds" marathons to running the NYC marathon without getting out there and going through the steps.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
No but you don't go from watching "Revenge of the Nerds" marathons to running the NYC marathon without getting out there and going through the steps.
Thanks Florida, you saved me from posting the obvious 
"Less play" sacrilege!
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 07/21/11 02:33 PM.
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As I said earlier....I don't see the big problem.
I think the vast majority of players know what it takes and show up in good shape.
The ones that don't usually hide behind some injury for a few weeks like Rogers did every year.
And there will still be two a days.....just not contact practices.....I don't think there is a limit on running, jumping, and stretching.
Slamming in to people doesn't make you stronger or get you in to better shape.
I contend it does the opposite.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Slamming in to people doesn't make you stronger or get you in to better shape.
I contend it does the opposite.
Bingo.
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Quote:
As I said earlier....I don't see the big problem.
I think the vast majority of players know what it takes and show up in good shape.
The ones that don't usually hide behind some injury for a few weeks like Rogers did every year.
And there will still be two a days.....just not contact practices.....I don't think there is a limit on running, jumping, and stretching.
Slamming in to people doesn't make you stronger or get you in to better shape.
I contend it does the opposite.
Well no one said anything about full contact, so I don't know where that statement came from.
You don't necessarily need to have full contact practice.
You may think that most of the players come in , in football shape, but in practice that is not the norm.
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Quote:
As I said earlier....I don't see the big problem.
I think the vast majority of players know what it takes and show up in good shape.
The ones that don't usually hide behind some injury for a few weeks like Rogers did every year.
And there will still be two a days.....just not contact practices.....I don't think there is a limit on running, jumping, and stretching.
Slamming in to people doesn't make you stronger or get you in to better shape.
I contend it does the opposite.
I may be wrong, but I don't think I am: 2 a days aren't packed with full pad, slamming into people, practices.
There is a lot of film. There is a lot of walk thru's, and a lot of full speed, helmet only practice.
Lifting weights and watching film and walking thru things doesn't get you ready. It helps - but there are other aspects.
Put it to you this way: You walk 5 to 7 miles a day I believe. You've been doing it for a long time - with great success I might add.
Go out and jog 4 miles tomorrow morning - then tell me how you feel Saturday morning.
Point? NOT hitting can be worse than hitting. No, they don't need to, nor do they, hit each other for hours on end - or even at both practices. But, if they don't get their body accustomed to hitting - when they do hit, the bumps and bruises are worse.
Heck, my wife is as tough as women come. Play a corn hole tournament? She's sore for days. Why? Because she's doing something she's not used to doing. Probably a poor example, but I think you'll see my point.
If you don't do something often, then try to do it once a week - aches, pains, and injuries can arise.
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I've been to the Browns camp a number of times and each time I was there for 2 a days, there wasn't a lot of hitting.. Some for sure, but not close to a lot.
More running plays without contact.....
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Quote:
I've been to the Browns camp a number of times and each time I was there for 2 a days, there wasn't a lot of hitting.. Some for sure, but not close to a lot.
More running plays without contact.....
Same here and normally the afternoon practice was in shorts and no contact.
More of a mental preparation then physical.
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Quote:
I've been to the Browns camp a number of times and each time I was there for 2 a days, there wasn't a lot of hitting.. Some for sure, but not close to a lot.
More running plays without contact.....
Not a lot of hitting and they aren't lengthy practices either. Some people act like they were strapping them up and going full bore for two 4 hour sessions. Not logical, feasible, necessary nor moral.
I expect them to practice hard and have the desire to learn, improve, and to win damned ballgames. That's not a whole helluva lot to ask for giving my dedication, support, and dollars in return.
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Quote:
Slamming in to people doesn't make you stronger or get you in to better shape.
I contend it does the opposite.
Its completely necessary in high school and college, to get the kids accustomed to the right way to do it and solidify their fundamentals. But I agree, by the time they make it to the NFL they should have it so ingrained in to them that its no longer necessary.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Quote:
Not a lot of hitting and they aren't lengthy practices either. Some people act like they were strapping them up and going full bore for two 4 hour sessions. Not logical, feasible, necessary nor moral.
I would have killed for only 2 practices of 4 hours each, we went 12 hours a day in the summer with lunch and water breaks.
Weight room at 8 am sharp, on the field after for reps with our position coaches, 7 on 7 after that, then lunch. After lunch we put the pads on and did Oklahoma's and Suicide and various other drills, then we got screamed at for awhile, then more 7 on 7. Depending on how we did that day we either ended with running until we puked or speed ball. Man how I loved that silly game after a long day, it meant I got to keep my lunch in my belly that day 
By the time I showered and changed to go home for the day it was starting to get dark.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Quote:
Quote:
Not a lot of hitting and they aren't lengthy practices either. Some people act like they were strapping them up and going full bore for two 4 hour sessions. Not logical, feasible, necessary nor moral.
I would have killed for only 2 practices of 4 hours each, we went 12 hours a day in the summer with lunch and water breaks.
Weight room at 8 am sharp, on the field after for reps with our position coaches, 7 on 7 after that, then lunch. After lunch we put the pads on and did Oklahoma's and Suicide and various other drills, then we got screamed at for awhile, then more 7 on 7. Depending on how we did that day we either ended with running until we puked or speed ball. Man how I loved that silly game after a long day, it meant I got to keep my lunch in my belly that day
By the time I showered and changed to go home for the day it was starting to get dark.
Wow - 12 hours a day? This wasn't h.s. in Ohio, as there are limits on practice hours. It wasn't college, was it? They all have limits also. Did you play pro ball? Couldn't have - because they have limits.
Where did you play football where you were practicing 12 hours a day?
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I played for Garfield for 4 years and Akron U for one summer, but decided to join the military instead of pursue college ball. I wasn't that good anyway. I also played pre-Kory Stringer, which caused many rule changes and more importantly, stricter rule enforcement. I coached freshman for 2 years as a volunteer after I got home from Afghanistan and at the time the rules were no more than 2 3 hour "scrimmages" which we were taught to mean was any activity involving 2 or more "teams." Weight room, film, and position drills did not fall under this umbrella and had a different set of restrictions. Practices were structured accordingly. Back when I played I wasn't aware of there being any rules at all, I'm sure there were but they were not shared with us. We did what we were told to do, or we didn't play. We all wanted to play so there was little complaining, at least where anyone could hear We got to take a knee when we weren't doing anything and we got an hour for lunch, which we were free to leave for as long as we were back on time, and lots of water breaks. On really hot days we were inside lifting or watching tape. And like I said before, the morning and early afternoon practice (hottest part of the day) was done without pads, we didn't hit until after lunch. They weren't killing us out there, but we pretty much lived there for about 6 weeks in the summer. I would go home so sore and exhausted that I would sleep from the time I got home from practice until it was time to go back the next morning. We didn't have it as bad as the Massilon and McKinely kids, if there's anyone on here who played there I'm sure they've got some stories. I know I heard plenty of them any time someone complained about being tired. Looking back on it I'm glad I did it. Made me tougher, and made bootcamp a lot less intimidating.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I don't know your age - and don't need to.
I played high school football in the 84, 85, and 86 seasons. There were rules then as far as amount of time coaches could have at us. At least, we were told there were rules. Check out John Downey - great coach. Meanest s.o.b. any student athlete could have - at least then. Tough, mean, nasty guy. Great coach.
There were practice limits though. I remember him chewing out - many times - our assistant coach/athletic trainer - when he'd take the temperature, the humidity - and say " no pads". Coach Downey didn't like that.
I just have a hard time believing a high school team practiced 12 hours a day, for 6 weeks straight.
If you did practice 12 hours a day, for 6 weeks straight, #1, your coaches were probably breaking the OHSAA rules (again, I don't know your age), #2 you should have won the state championship every year, and #3 I just find it hard to believe you practiced 12 hours a day. That is what you said, right? 12 hours a day - for 6 weeks straight? (saturdays and sundays off, right?)
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Stop being so thick and read what I actually wrote instead of crating a strawman to argue with.
I said repeatedly they weren't killing us out there. We were to be there at 8am sharp, that doesn't mean in full pads going full contact from 8am to 8pm before they let us stop or drop dead, whichever came first.
A typical day was probably 5 to 6 hours of actual physical work with half of that being in pads, the rest was either weight training, watching tape, meetings, breaks, some coach led activities for fun if we weren't sloppy that day, etc.
The only thing we did that I think was a bit much was all the running. We ran a lot, sometimes I'd drink too much water and throw up in the middle of all the running. We got yelled at if we threw up without making it off to the side. But the coaches said tired players get hurt, tired players make mistakes, and tired players quit. We were never tired in the 4th quarter and we never quit, so all the running must have paid off.
Things changed a little bit in 2001 when Kory Stringer died of a heat stroke. Instead of calling kids a ... they'd give them a break and some Gatorade. We never had Gatorade, only water. They took replacing electrolytes pretty seriously after that. They went pretty light in August of that year after he died too, overly cautious probably. Can't blame em though, no coach wants that to happen to his kids. I graduated before that season but I did come back to help out a little that summer, for lack of better things to do. It was being talked about a lot at the time.
And yes to answer your smart ass inquiry, we were pretty good. No I didn't personally win any state titles, but my school has in its history and we've played against schools with state titles. We played against the State Champions (Canton McKinley) in 1997 (I did not actually play, I was 14) and 1998 (I played special teams and a few snaps on defense) and lost both times, but we did beat them at Fawcett Stadium in 2000 in which I started and played the full game. I believe they won the state title again in 2004 but I may have the year wrong, I was long gone by then. And we're talking Division I state titles in Ohio, one of the biggest football states there is. We played them every single year and have going back to the 50s or 60s. We played other schools like Massillon, Glenville, and other big time football programs, not to mention Buchtel twice a year, which was a pretty good team too. We've churned out some NFL players and a ton of college players. There's a guy playing for the Arizona Cardinals right now who used to carry my pads when he was in 8th grade. There's some strong traditions and history at that school, and I'm proud to have played there and played well.
Coach McGee retired a few years after I was gone and they haven't been the same since, but they didn't build that strong history playing 2 hand touch for a few hours in the summer, it took a lot of blood sweat and tears.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Are the lengths of practice times defined in the CBA? If not what's to keep teams from having LONG practices instead of two-a-days?
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