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Oh Brother,,, Turn and run.. OK with me...LOL
Not turning and running. Just tired of arguing about another team's financial situation with you.
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Honestly Adam, I don't know what you mean about argueing with me in particular, but it kinda sounds like a personal attack..
Nope, aside from not regarding you as one of the greater football gurus of Dawgtalkers.net. If you consider that a personal attack then so be it.
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Be that as it may,, No need for the steelers to go outside for a FA when they have thier own guys.
I agree, as I've said all along. Something you seem to continuously gloss over.
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History tells us that the Steelers never have been the type to go outside for a guy.. Jerome Bettis is about the only guy I can think of that they did that with that was a HIGH profile guy in the last 20 years. May have been one or two more., maybe even three., But to them, it's not part of thier MO.
Again, I agree, as I've said all along. You've failed to acknowledge that a by-product of their system is little cap room to spend outside of the team.
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I'm sorry you can't see that.., but,, like you, i'm done.
I can see it quite clearly. Take care.
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I'll post this again since I don't think you saw the last post:
Why do you continue to make assumptions about players you probably have never seen play after what happened last year with Hillis?
If the GM signs someone you've never heard of, you automatically think they suck. That statement basically covers all your posts. Each one of your posts says basically the same thing; you add nothing new.
You haven't watched enough football around the NFL to know who is worth signing and who isn't. Neither have I, except I don't going around acting like I do.
If you're going to say something new, please keep posting. But please, just stop posting if you're only going to say the same ol'e uninformed garbage. Thanks.
No I read your summation and straw dog sweeping statement of EVERYONE my team signs sucks. No I only weigh in individually yet it must seem to you that is EVERYONE we sign.
I hear we just signed Bunkly who lost his job in Philly, maybe he has enough game to be a rotational DT, at least he improves the bench. see I said somethin nice.
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Kevin Greene? From the Rams/Panthers? Bettis. The '94 Steelers had a lot of homegrown talent--Barry Foster, Fu' Mutafuala, O'Donnell, Thigpen, Green, Hastings, John L. Williams. Kirkland, Seals, Lake, Woodson, etc. etc. etc. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1994_roster.htmThere's 3 players from the Rams, 1 from the Bills, but most of the 22 are from the Steelers. That's just a given year.
Go Browns!
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Kevin Greene? From the Rams/Panthers?
Bettis.
The '94 Steelers had a lot of homegrown talent--Barry Foster, Fu' Mutafuala, O'Donnell, Thigpen, Green, Hastings, John L. Williams.
Kirkland, Seals, Lake, Woodson, etc. etc. etc.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1994_roster.htm
There's 3 players from the Rams, 1 from the Bills, but most of the 22 are from the Steelers.
That's just a given year.
Exactly my point., No team that I'm aware of, grew all thier own talent (at least since FA). Every team has some FA's on it.
But really, one of the teams that picks up the fewest FA's has traditionally been the Steelers.
And even then, it's rare for them to pick up a High Profile FA.
My ONLY point out of this is, if you look at teams that have shown recent success, you will find that they aren't super big players in Free agency as it relates to really high profile guys.
NE picks up guys that nobody else seems to want, Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Chad Ochocinco, Albert Haynesworth... I don't believe they break the bank on them and they also don't trade top picks for them either.
In the last 12 years, those two teams account for 7 Superbowl appearances and 5 SB Wins.
If you wanna see what works, there it is.,..,
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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There is another team that does it that way.. However, I do believe the packers have gone out and spent big on FA from time to time.. Reggie White comes to mind.. was there others? or do they fit more into the Pats and Steelers methods?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I think lately they've been more of a build through the draft team. Besides White and Woodson I don't know of any other already good players they've brought in...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Since Ted Thompson has been Green Bay's GM (2005), the Packers have bee one of the least active teams in free agency. Look at the NFL's best teams; The Patriots, Packers, Colts, Steelers, Ravens are rarely active in free agency. They know how to build a team.
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Since Ted Thompson has been Green Bay's GM (2005), the Packers have bee one of the least active teams in free agency. Look at the NFL's best teams; The Patriots, Packers, Colts, Steelers, Ravens are rarely active in free agency. They know how to build a team.
The Colts biggest splurge in FA was a Kicker...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Since Ted Thompson has been Green Bay's GM (2005), the Packers have bee one of the least active teams in free agency. Look at the NFL's best teams; The Patriots, Packers, Colts, Steelers, Ravens are rarely active in free agency. They know how to build a team.
The Colts biggest splurge in FA was a Kicker...
Everything you guys are saying is pointing to the way the Browns seem to be trying to work it. The most recent teams to find lasting success in the NFL have done it that way..
I swear, it sometimes feels as if some fans would rather we copy the Redskins rather than teams that actually win something 
#GMSTRONG
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Those teams aren't active in Free Agency because they draft well and they coach well. We haven't done either particularly well, so we have several holes to fill. Apparently we don't think we should use FA to fill those holes either.
Point is, it's not the method that's the problem, it's the decisions. When you pass on a franchise pass-rusher who is a perfect fit for your defense for a center, you're losing.
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We passed on a DT for a Pass Rusher once, how'd that work out?
So if you need to rebuild, don't build through the draft, that's only for good teams, you have to stockpile FA's first... Because that works so well for the Redskins...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Since Ted Thompson has been Green Bay's GM (2005), the Packers have bee one of the least active teams in free agency. Look at the NFL's best teams; The Patriots, Packers, Colts, Steelers, Ravens are rarely active in free agency. They know how to build a team.
The Colts biggest splurge in FA was a Kicker...
Everything you guys are saying is pointing to the way the Browns seem to be trying to work it. The most recent teams to find lasting success in the NFL have done it that way..
I swear, it sometimes feels as if some fans would rather we copy the Redskins rather than teams that actually win something
Back in the '70's there was this iconic cartoon that showed up on millions of t-shirts across America. It depicted two buzzards sitting in a tree. One buzzard was saying to the other: "Patience, my ass! I'm gonna kill something!"
Excercizing patience is very difficult for some fans/personality types... and it's made all the worse when one follows a team that hits the 'reset button' every 3.5 years like we have.
For years, we've had a succession of FO types who only paid lip service to this quote: "we're going to do it right- and build this team through the draft."
For the first time since '99, we seem to have a FO that actually meant what they said- at least by appearances so far.
I for one, am kind of stoked to see it. Why? because after all the experimentation, restarts, FO infighting, splashy off-season moves and desperate "hail Mary" tactics....
...this approach is the only one we've NEVER tried.
As a fan,I look at our current situation this way: I'm not jumping ship, and I'm not going anywhere. I'm willing to watch this thing from Square One, with the expectation that this different tactic will yeild different results. The prospect of watching a team of no-names at ground level coalesce into a perennial contender (and yes, maybe even powerhouse) intrigues the hell out of me.
When I was a kid, beginning some backyard or garage project, My Pops used to tell me every time: "If you want to save time and effort, don't take shortcuts."
Butch broke our coffers trying to make a premature jump to contender status. One year later, he slipped out of town in the middle of our season
Phil Savage tried the same thing, before we had a core group established enough to maintain cohesion. 10-6 to the same old disappointment and embarrassment for fans.
I'm interested to watch the pieces get put into place in this new way, because it has a different feel to it. There seems to be an actual philosophy in place, with actions that are in keeping with it. As a poster on another board wrote: "Sit back and relax- adults are now in charge."
I'm going to do just that. But for some, it's like the words from the old Tom Petty tune:
"waiting is the hardest part."
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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100% agree with you Clem 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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The only time the Browns have made the playoffs since "The Return" was with a team of Free Agents.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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If you want a one and done team that needs to be blown up the year after... that's your perogative...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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The only time the Browns have made the playoffs since "The Return" was with a team of Free Agents.
and what happened the following year? I'll tell you, they fell apart, coach resigned and they didn't have a winning season..
yup,, That's the way to do it...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I believe that Phil Savage meant it when he said he wanted to build through the draft. He just wasn't as good at it as we hoped and thought. Wasn't good at it at all, really. He didn't try to go all in until we caught lightning in a bottle in '07 and he thought we could make a playoff push in '08. And as poorly as that season turned out, it was hampered with all sorts of freaky occurrences...Braylon's foot, Stallworth getting hurt in warmups, Winslow staph infection, the list goes on.
The only free agents around then I'd consider "splashy" are Steiny, Bentley and Jamal Lewis. Two worked out pretty well and one didn't as the result of another freak injury.
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Clem, you have a way of saying something that few can pull off. Thanks for yet another wise post.
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If you want a one and done team that needs to be blown up the year after... that's your perogative...
Assuming we're talking about a team that brings in 4-5 of the best available free agents every year versus the team than does nothing but re-sign their own players.
I think most aren't advocating the signing of Nnamdi, J.Joseph, Mebane, Weddle, S.Rice, Charles Johnson & Clabo all this offseason. What about one?
Is it possible to still "build through the draft" and sign one of those guy this offseason to accelerate the timeline for becoming a contender? Why is signing a free agent, even one big/medium name, mean that team is now the "Redskins" and therefore they can't win and if they do....the whole team will be blown up in 8 months?
Seems like a lot of Black and White being argued here. No shades of grey.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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My point is, the one season the Browns did go the massive Free Agent signing route, they did earn a playoff appearence, which is more than the other 10 years of "building through the draft" has done.
I love the way the draft seems to have gone the past 2 years, but I think we have all gotten tired of 5 - 11 and would love to see the FO do more than stand pat and build thru the draft. At some point we have to stop blaming the coach and look at the players the coach has to work with.
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Hey now, that's crazy talk...
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If you want a one and done team that needs to be blown up the year after... that's your perogative...
Assuming we're talking about a team that brings in 4-5 of the best available free agents every year versus the team than does nothing but re-sign their own players.
I think most aren't advocating the signing of Nnamdi, J.Joseph, Mebane, Weddle, S.Rice, Charles Johnson & Clabo all this offseason. What about one?
Is it possible to still "build through the draft" and sign one of those guy this offseason to accelerate the timeline for becoming a contender? Why is signing a free agent, even one big/medium name, mean that team is now the "Redskins" and therefore they can't win and if they do....the whole team will be blown up in 8 months?
Seems like a lot of Black and White being argued here. No shades of grey.
Ok,, so maybe it would work,, show me where it has and I'll believe you
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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nice post
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I'm not advocating a mass signing of every high priced FA out there, but I do believe that a couple talented FAs in our problem areas would go a long way towards making the Browns a competitive team. Last year we beat NE and NO, not a bad deal for a 5 - 11 team. Who's to say that the addition of Namadi, Santonio and Weddle may not have changed 5 - 11 to 10 - 6 ?
Last edited by Halfback32; 08/02/11 01:53 PM.
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The Packers briought in Charles Woodsen in 2006. That was after a 4-12 year in 2005. They went 8-8 in 2006 but rebounded in 2007 (13 wins), 2008 (6 wins), 2009 (11 wins) & 2010 (10 wins).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I'm not advocating a mass signing of every high priced FA out there, but I do believe that a couple talented FAs in our problem areas would go a long way towards making the Browns a competitive team. Last year we beat NE and NO, not a bad deal for a 5 - 11 team. Who's to say that the addition of Namadi, Santonio and Weddle may not have changed 5 - 11 to 10 - 6 ?
See, I think that's even too far. Signing three of the top 10-15 is what we're saying is a problem. But what about singing one of them? Maybe just Weddle and then play the season out with everyone else we have now.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Randy Moss tore up his current deal and signed a one-year contract upon being traded to the Pats, and then signed a three-year deal the following season as a free agent. I'd say he did pretty well during his time in New England.
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Signing a guy like Nnamdi isn't going to help us in a couple years when we're hopefully good and he's on the DOWN side of his career...
Everybody is saying we should have spent money on these FAs, when in actuality, this FA class sucked...
The one guy I was ok with us signing (Johnson) didn't even sniff FA... He got his money from Carolina and was happy...
Rice, Edwards, all the others, COULD help us, but they're all boom/bust and I'd rather see what we have here first...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Randy Moss tore up his current deal and signed a one-year contract upon being traded to the Pats, and then signed a three-year deal the following season as a free agent. I'd say he did pretty well during his time in New England.
So all we need to do is find a HOF calibur WR thats had a few crappy seasons and trade for him?
...Sounds easy enough...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I really don't see a problem signing a Weddle every couple of years. You have an obvious hole in one particular position, and there is a middle to high FA out there that you can plug in right away. I don't see a problem with that.
I see a problem with us going after a Scrabbles. That's NOT a glaring need for us, he's just the shiniest toy out there right now. Yes, he would improve our defense, but he's not what we need.
Therefore, I'm not disappointed that we missed Scrabbles, I'm disappointed that we missed on a Weddle (or one of the other "good" FS).
In hindsight, I'm not too miffed about missing out on one of the "big" Dlinemen that were out on the market. They got huge contracts and really weren't all that great (lots of overpaying going on).
For WR, we seem to be using the shotgun approach. We're going to throw a ton of young hit or miss guys into camp and see if anything sticks. If no new guys do, then we can at least hope for improvement from our current guys due to the scheme change. Plus, there really weren't any WR worth going after. I mean, the best value out there would probably be BE, so that should tell you something.
I'm miffed that we have had this gaping hole at safety, and still haven't been able to fill it. That hole will seem bigger with the loss of Wright (say what you want about the guy, but with all his weaknesses, he will be tough to replace).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I have no problem with that. I primarily want to see the FO look as though they are making the effort. Last year, I thought both the players and the coaches were making the effort. Now it is time for the FO to step up and do the same. At the moment it looks as though the Front Office would prefer to "coach up" the talent here, rather than spend money to improve the overall talent of the team.
I read about what people are saying about successful teams building in the draft, and I agree, but you have to get that core of players to build around. Ever wonder why we all look down on the Bengals? They have drafted in the top 5 in the draft for almost 20 years, but they have pretty much stayed out of Free Agency largely because Mike Brown is too cheap to spend money and that makes them primarily a 3 - 13 team every year. Heisman Trophy winners do not want to play for them because no real effort is made to improve the team.
I want to see the Browns make the effort to improve. Sign a FA to a good enough deal to help with the core, not a one or two year contract, and build from there.
Last edited by Halfback32; 08/02/11 02:25 PM.
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I have no problem with that. I primarily want to see the FO look as though they are making the effort. Last year, I thought both the players and the coaches were making the effort. Now it is time for the FO to step up and do the same. At the moment it looks as though the Front Office would prefer to "coach up" the talent here, rather than spend money to improve the overall talent of the team.
I read about what people are saying about successful teams building in the draft, and I agree, but you have to get that core of players to build around. Ever wonder why we all look down on the Bengals? They have drafted in the top 5 in the draft for almost 20 years, but they have pretty much stayed out of Free Agency largely because Mike Brown is too cheap to spend money and that makes them primarily a 3 - 13 team every year. Heisman Trophy winners do not want to play for them because no real effort is made to improve the team.
I want to see the Browns make the effort to improve. Sign a FA to a good enough deal to help with the core, not a one or two year contract, and build from there.
You're talking in circles...
You don't get a CORE of players in FA, you get your core through the draft, then use FA to fill in...
And the Bengles suck not because they don't spend money, but because they draft horribly...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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When the Bengals WERE having success, it was with...
Carson Palmer - Draft
Chad Johnson - Draft
TJ Houshmanzadeh - Draft
Rudi Johnson - Draft
Willie Anderson - Draft
Stacy Andrews - Draft
Chris Henry - Draft
Odell Thurman - Draft
Justin Smith - Draft
David Pollock - Draft
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You or I could field a .500 team drafting in the top 5 for 20 years.. with a couple good FA signings along the way... 
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Randy Moss tore up his current deal and signed a one-year contract upon being traded to the Pats, and then signed a three-year deal the following season as a free agent. I'd say he did pretty well during his time in New England.
So all we need to do is find a HOF calibur WR thats had a few crappy seasons and trade for him?
...Sounds easy enough...
Didn't say that at all. He asked about an established team that signed a big name free agent. I gave an example.
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Randy Moss tore up his current deal and signed a one-year contract upon being traded to the Pats, and then signed a three-year deal the following season as a free agent. I'd say he did pretty well during his time in New England.
So all we need to do is find a HOF calibur WR thats had a few crappy seasons and trade for him?
...Sounds easy enough...
Didn't say that at all. He asked about an established team that signed a big name free agent. I gave an example.
They RE-SIGNED a big name FA... Theres a difference...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
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You or I could field a .500 team drafting in the top 5 for 20 years.. with a couple good FA signings along the way...
I bet that's what Matt Millen thought...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum should the FO feel fan pressure to
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