Don't want to make a new thread, so I figured I'd comment here on the Red Sox move to acquire Erik Bedard.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the need for another left handed starter.
He'll fit in nicely as a third fourth starter for us behind Lester, Beckett, and Bucholz (if he gets healthy). Add that to if Lackey can get back to his former self, and that's a scary rotation.
A lot of "if's" in that scenario, because I have doubts that Clay will pitch again this year and Lackey has been terrible this year.
you only need 3 pitchers in October. you now have 3 pitchers.
assuming Bedard's first game back from DL was a blip (likely), then he is a very good starting pitcher. his main problem has been health, so you will always have to worry that he'll be out at the worst possible time. outside of that, he was a great pickup.
Oh, I'm fine with our rotation in October, I was just talking about our 5 man until then.
Not like it matters, because our offense is going to get us to October, regardless.
I'd like to not see Bedard starting in October, but it's nice to have him available. I'm hoping for Clay to get healthy so we can roll with Lester, Beckett, and Bucholz.
my ranking would probably be: Rays, Angels, Indians, Red Sox, A's
only reason for Indians over Red Sox is that I hate how most of their staff is injury-prone (Beckett, Bedard, Clay) and Lackey has been terrible (or pitching injured, which puts him in the first group).
still, the Indians should have a top flight rotation moving forward, which is a good thing.
Consideration but not in real discussion: Mariners (top-end only as they traded Bedard/Fister): Felix, Pineda, Vargas Rangers (too many guys pitching more IP than they have before): Wilson, Lewis, Holland, Ogando, Harrison
White Sox don't have a top-end starter but a team full of 3rd starters. Detroit is terrible after Verlander (Porcello has looked better lately), but almost put them in because Verlander is just plain filthy. Minny isn't that far off when you look at what Liriano, Baker, Duensing can do, but they aren't deep enough nor consistent enough to be included yet.
and, I can't believe how low I would put the Yankees on this list. they have CC, which obviously counts for alot, but I'd take the Tigers rotation over theirs easily. Probably take the Yankees over Chicago and Minny, but that's just on CC alone.
we can argue who has the worst some other time but KC and Baltimore might have to duke it out. for all the talk of KCs hitting prospects, it seems to be forgotten that they really need pitching at the MLB level.
always liked watching Bourn. this backs up how solid of a player he is.
to keep on task with Tribe, here is what he says about our Red Sox series in that same link
Quote:
3. Cleveland at Boston (Monday through Thursday). It's a huge week for the Indians as they travel to Boston and then Texas. Cleveland was 32-20 through May, but went 10-17 in June and 11-15 in July, getting outscored by 50 runs over those two months. The AL Central remains wide open, but a bad week could create a hole too big to dig out of. The offense needs to start producing: It's hitting .214/.284/.340 since the All-Star break. Ubaldo Jimenez would make his regular turn on Thursday, but that's Justin Masterson's scheduled day, so I assume he'll make his Cleveland debut on Wednesday (he pitched just one inning on Saturday) or Friday.
When I think of OCab's defense I just remember the play where he was a few steps into the outfield and couldn't come up with the ball, but knocked it down then stood and stared at it with his back to the plate while a guy scored from 2nd because OCab wasn't paying attention. Glad he's gone.
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
I missed tonight's game ..... but always glad to see a win.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
We will always matchup well against a power arm. We dominated Walden from the angels as well. That's the thing about our young players. They could hit anybody's fastball.
There's no reason why we can't win 3 out 4 in this series. The only good boston starter we see is beckett tommorrow. Wednesday and Thursday, we'll see Wakefield, and Bedard. We seem to play well in fenway as of late. I remember last year we split a 4 gamer.
Speaking of the Angels (and I didn't want to start a thread on this), did anyone catch Weaver blowing up after Guillen's HR yesterday? He was already whining because he thought Ordonez stared down a homer in the first.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
That was a response to Weaver's reaction to Ordonez' homer. He was whining because Ordonez stood at the plate watching to see if the homer was foul or not. Weaver apparently thought Cabrera was staring it down and pitched a fit.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: Simple. If you don't like it when hitters admire their homers....get thicker skin or don't give up homers anymore.
That's not the way the game is supposed to be played. Have some class. I'm not defending Weaver, but that was a bush move showboating like that.
Throwing the ball at a guys head isn't the way baseball was meant to be played either. I've always thought it was a punk move for pitchers to do that. Especially going for someones head.
Pitched in college. A pitcher needs to own the inside of the plate, protect teammates (if the other teams pitcher starts hitting your guys or a runner breaks up a double play spikes high etc then you need to "set the record straight" so to speak ) and to keep the other team in line if they try to "show your team up" like that home run trot.
A batter's butt and thigh are always fair game the head is always off limits. I have no issue with a pitcher intentionally hitting a batter as long as the pitch is kept below the top of the strikezone. Any pitch intentionally directed at a batter's head deserves more than a 6 game suspension.
This is also one of the issues I have against the DH. In the NL a pitcher has to bat so if he intentionally hits a batter he is soon going to have to stand in that batter's box himself. And retribution will come. Maybe not that game (because sometimes that would hurt your chances of winning that game) but it will come - baseball players have long memories.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Quote: Pitched in college. A pitcher needs to own the inside of the plate, protect teammates (if the other teams pitcher starts hitting your guys or a runner breaks up a double play spikes high etc then you need to "set the record straight" so to speak )
Sure, I totally agree.
Quote: ...and to keep the other team in line if they try to "show your team up" like that home run trot.
I call BS (a respectful BS ). If the pitcher wasn't giving up homers that resulted in long home run trots, it wouldn't be a problem to worry about. A pitchers job is to get outs....not correct the proper home run trot speed of the opposing team. Get more strikeouts, ground balls or flyouts. If you give up a homer, re-focus and continue to battle.
By throwing at the other team you've shown the world you're rattled, that the player/opposing team is in your head. And you risk getting thrown out. How does that help your team (give up a bomb, put the next runner on first with a HBP and then getting tossed from the game when there wasn't a guy in the pen ready to help)? STUPID!
Look, I get that nobody likes getting shown up*. It's ok to get bent up about it.....but why is it ok to hurt a guy over it and hurt your team in the process?
The NFL has a post-play celebration after every sack, int, fumble, td pass, td catch, td run, fg and first down (heck, ray lewis celebrates after he attempts to tackle someone). Whenever I hear someone in the NFL talk about T.O.'s TD celebrations and how to stop them.....the defensive guys always say, "don't let him in the endzone". Sounds simple enough to me.
* I wouldn't define "shown up" by a player watching his ball travel over the fence or jogging too slow while rounding the bases. I would offer up the Barry Bonds spin, a cartwheel, pointing at the pitcher, blowing a kiss at the pitcher or just generally acting like a jackass. The batter is risking a benching by his own manager by not running after the swing of the bat anyway. If the ball ends up being a double but he's still getting to first....that's on him. So I say, let all the long flyouts coincide with the opposing batters walking and starring...more singles for them.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
what I think is dumb is that when a pitcher loses his cool over something like that they invariably lose their control and hurt their team in the game.
example: Lackey was visibly upset that Kipnis line drive was misread in RF last night and fell in for a double. He was fuming and cursing and did not regain his composure. He then does NOT settle down and gives up HRs to the next 2 batters.
Verlander is another example from Sunday after the Aybar bunt attempt. He gets so upset at Aybar (which was an error, not a hit) that he loses his cool and starts giving up hits (and runs). Weaver may have been another example from that game but the ump quickly took him out of the game when he started going head-hunting.
You're never going to be perfect as a pitcher. You WILL give up hits, runs and even home runs. And luckily, lots of home runs (if you get to stay in the bigs long enough).
You made the mistake, he crushed it and now it's time to move on.
And the "you can't bunt for a base hit late in the game with a no-hitter on the line" is about the worst unwritten rule of baseball. Getting a bunt base hit isn't easy. In fact, it's harder than getting a regular hit. If it wasn't, there would be more bunt base hit attempts in a normal game. Batters will take advantage of every little thing...and if they had a .00001% better chance at getting on base by laying down a bunt every AB, they'd do it.
And if the defense was sleeping with a no-hitter on the line and wasn't covering the short stuff.....welp, blame them not the bunter.
And overall, the job is to get on base and win the game. Shut up.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
nice write-up on Neal. i’m guessing that Neal would be considered a top10 prospect mostly because he is in AAA, but still, we got him for Orlando Cabrera. we seem to make out pretty good when trading under-performing IFers to west coast teams (Blake to LAD, Russell Branyan and more to Seattle, now Orlando to SF).
The big news of the trade deadline for the Tribe of course is the Ubaldo Jimenez deal, where the Indians traded three of their top ten prospects for the next 2.5 years of Jimenez. I am not here to debate this deal, many will I am sure. In the explosion of this deal the Indians made a lesser deal, that should include little debate. They traded Orlando Cabrera to the Giants for Thomas Neal.
Indians fans had talked about OCAB to the Giants back when we played them, but the Giants reportedly had no interest. The lackluster play of Brandon Crawford and Miguel Tejada changed their minds rather quickly. The Indians received a bit of a fallen prospect in this deal in Thomas Neal.
Thomas Neal is a 23-year old, right-handed (that's correct--right-handed) outfielder. He has been well thought of in many circles, and was ranked the 96th best prospect in all of baseball by Baseball America in 2010. He was ranked the 6th best minor league player for the Giants by Keith Law and Fangraphs and 7th by both BA and MLB.
He had one big year where he showed off some power and hit 22 bombs, but has mostly just been a consistent hitter. He might not have big power, but has a good doubles stroke, twice hitting 40 or more, and plays a solid outfield with an above-average arm. Even in a down year he is still posting a 761 OPS in AAA (only 4 Indians regulars have OPS over 700). He only has two home runs this year, and his doubles are down a bit, and that's why he was attainable. Still he has produced at every level, and you have to wonder if this could be little like McAllister, where the Indians are buying low and betting on a rebound.
He seems to be improving in terms of pitch recognition, as his strike out totals have dropped as he has risen up the ranks, which is not often seen. Neal strikes me as kind of a good-at-everything, master-of-nothing type. He could be a player who surprises everyone, and I would not be shocked. After all of our trades and promotions, I believe he would be one of our top ten prospects right now. I tweeted Keith Law for a quick review on Neal: "I think he's a really good 4th OF. Great return for Cabrera"On a team that has played Austin Kearns and Travis Buck all season, doesn't a right-handed, really-good 4th outfielder sound like a great addition? Plus' we have had a lot of luck trading washed up vets to San Francisco over the years and getting players. I am excited for Neal. The Indians traded OCAB and got a guy who is a potential legit major league option. Plus, for twitter fans, rumor has it that he is a highly entertaining edition to the Tribe's ranks in the social circles.
Welcome Thomas Neal, another potential steal for a half-season of a bench-worthy veteran.
Quote: By throwing at the other team you've show the world you're rattled, that the player/opposing team is in your head
Weaver and Carrasco were rattled. I agree that you don't want to show your opponent that. But throwing at somebody isn't what showed that they were rattled. It was their demeanor as they did it. If you do it in a calm collected manner then you aren't showing you are rattled. You are just making a statement.
Quote: * I wouldn't define "shown up" by a player watching his ball travel over the fence or jogging too slow while rounding the bases. I would offer up the Barry Bonds spin, a cartwheel, pointing at the pitcher, blowing a kiss at the pitcher or just generally acting like a jackass.
My thoughts too. Guess I should have defined shown up. But I don't advocate it for any little thing. But yes if a hitter homers and blows me a kiss then yes the next one would be in his ribs (situation permitting).
Quote: The NFL has a post-play celebration after every sack, int, fumble, td pass, td catch, td run, fg and first down (heck, ray lewis celebrates after he attempts to tackle someone).
And there are penalties for that when it becomes taunting.
To the point of costing your team the game, you don't do it. You pick the time and the situation. Doesn't have to be next pitch. Like I said baseball players have long memories. They will know. Even if it is next game.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Quote: My thoughts too. Guess I should have defined shown up. But I don't advocate it for any little thing. But yes if a hitter homers and blows me a kiss then yes the next one would be in his ribs (situation permitting).
Yeah, exactly ... Blatent taunting? I would say that could earn a batter a ball in the ribs. Admiring a homerun for a few extra seconds? Good gawd, get over it.
Quote: ...Like I said baseball players have long memories. They will know. Even if it is next game.
Ed Farmer, the radio annoucer of the White Sox, has a great story about this. The details are hard to remember but went something like this...
Ed gave up a homer, the batter took too long to round the bases, it was the 3rd game of the series and the teams didn't play each other again that season. The batter got traded to a team in the NL and spent 6-7 seasons there. The batter ended up getting traded to the team Ed Farmer was on....it's Spring Training and Ed's pitching BP. The batter comes up and he nails him in the back. The batter got up, dusted himself off and waited for the next pitch. Even after all that time, both KNEW it was coming.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Agree completely with both sentiments in that statement. Hard to define but usually pretty obvious when someone crosses the line. And if it isn't then they probably didn't.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Quote: ...Like I said baseball players have long memories. They will know. Even if it is next game.
Ed Farmer, the radio annoucer of the White Sox, has a great story about this. The details are hard to remember but went something like this...
Ed gave up a homer, the batter took too long to round the bases, it was the 3rd game of the series and the teams didn't play each other again that season. The batter got traded to a team in the NL and spent 6-7 seasons there. The batter ended up getting traded to the team Ed Farmer was on....it's Spring Training and Ed's pitching BP. The batter comes up and he nails him in the back. The batter got up, dusted himself off and waited for the next pitch. Even after all that time, both KNEW it was coming.
speaking of ed farmer, if you're ever having trouble sleeping, just listen to that guy call a ballgame. My GOD i know baseball is slow enough but he sounds like a 10th grade science teacher.
This is also one of the issues I have against the DH. In the NL a pitcher has to bat so if he intentionally hits a batter he is soon going to have to stand in that batter's box himself. And retribution will come. Maybe not that game (because sometimes that would hurt your chances of winning that game) but it will come - baseball players have long memories.
that is about the only argument against the DH that i agree with, although not nearly enough for me to say the DH needs to go away.
I would agree with that. Back in the day having a pitcher hit was a cool thing but now it just seems pointless. Pitchers don't want to hit and nobody wants to watch them hit. And the remark you quoted is a valid reason to want them to hit it just isn't a strong enough reason. Especially in todays game where umpires warn pitchers and benches after any even barely borderline play that even this argument fails to hold water.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Quote: I would agree with that. Back in the day having a pitcher hit was a cool thing but now it just seems pointless. Pitchers don't want to hit and nobody wants to watch them hit. And the remark you quoted is a valid reason to want them to hit it just isn't a strong enough reason. Especially in todays game where umpires warn pitchers and benches after any even barely borderline play that even this argument fails to hold water.
I'm gonna go hockey in this topic, but I think umps should swallow their whistles and let them work their issues out, seriuosly, they're baseball players, they all fight like 10 year old girls anyway. It's entertainment to me.
Although from the perspective of a hockey player, if you're going to make a scene, then do something, they should be punished everytime both benches clear and nothing happens. Just a big giant spectacle.
And yeah, I understand the argument against the DH, it only seems right and pure that pitchers go up there, but they're so horrible that it makes a slow and dull game even worse. I don't care about strategy either. it's freakin baseball. Throw ball, hit ball, catch ball.
For real, I mean Bill Belichick and Andy Reid gotta be laughing whenever someone talks about the strategy in baseball. Those guys are there until well past midnight coming up with a gameplan to try and beat the other team, and baseball managers are in the clubhouse chugging beer and eating from a spread before they go home, lol.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif)
) and to keep the other team in line if they try to "show your team up" like that home run trot. 
