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this makes me wonder the heirarchy...
i would guess our good to bad would be..
It's not important that you pigeon hole these players into #1, #2, #3 #4.
That would be
The Coaches Job. But What Is important is that these guys are pushing each other and that the bad ones are leaving and good ones are ariving and what that means is,
Well something like this.......
Ben Watson caught a touchdown and I only heard it, ( couldn't watch the game) and while Ben Watson caught that touchdown and was celebrating until the extra point attempt.
The Question in my mind, and I think this question maybe the Browns were thinking about, and I think this same question maybe the Packers were thinking about
Did Ben Watson get open and catch that touchdown because Greg Little was lined up on the other side of the field drawing the attention of the best cornerback available.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT That's the kind of thing that is gonna WIN YOU GAMES.
That is something to get excited about! You don't have the invisible man Donte Stalworth out there who they barely have to cover.
It is not a matter of this guy is better, it is a matter of this guy is not as bad because his teamate is a threat . Look at your team and think how difficult are you to stop?
It is This! 3 days ago Carlton Mitchell was having a big camp, everyone wants to see him play. He doesn't play because of a finger, and then Josh Cribbs catches a touchdown, any you've moved him to the #1 wr on the team. It is that Cribbs catches a TD and that TD moves Mitchell to the practice squad?
Mitchell is going to catch his next TD because Little or Watson caught their last one, and defenses won't know who to defend.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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by Marty Gitlin - Shurmur likens Norwood to Rams' Amendola
Coach Pat Shurmur compared emerging WR Jordan Norwood to Rams WR Danny Amendola, who has become a viable pass-catcher. "They have the same skill set. Jordan finds a way to get open and he's smart." Norwood has been lined up both wide and in the slot. Browns RapidReports
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I don't understand all the Robiskie rhetoric of late.
In case you haven't noticed the Coach's are trying to get a good look at some of the other players and Robiskie has been working at the FL position and not his normal SE ("X") position lately.
Robiskie was only targeted once in the game in Detroit and Little saw extended PT at that position.
Cribbs was working at the SE and Slot positions, so I think they are just trying to get a feel for what they (WR's) do best and what combinations work the best for a specific formations.
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Robiskie was end up with 30 catches this year and somehow people will still defend him.
he will never be a game changing WR. He can't command a double team.
If he does get it open its because he had the teams #2 CB or a LB covering him.
he has real good hands and is blocking is adequate. But to be able to blow the lid off secondaries..never.
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I spend a good bit of time here (though not nearly as much as many of my fellow DTers) and I can't recall anybody claiming Robo to be a potential #1 guy, a guy who could blow the lid off the secondary nor be a game changer who commands double teams. The arguments here are always centered on can Robo be a solid #2/3 Wr or is he destined to be a complete failure.
IF he has good hands and catches 30 passes a season that sounds like a #3/4 Wr to me. If he can consistently beat the other teams #2 Cb well that sounds like a solid #2 guy to me. Personally I think he can be a solid #3 Wr. We should get some clarity as the season progresses.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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One thing I think we can all agree on is that this year is a HUGE show-me year for Robo.
Third year as a WR, new offense that is supposed to make him look better, and a QB that can get him the ball.
If he can't do it now, I don't think he can do it.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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If he can't do it now, I don't think he can do it.
+1
This is it. I think he has to catch around 50+ with 6-7 TD's to have a successful season (outside of looking at our win total).
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Robiskie was end up with 30 catches this year and somehow people will still defend him.
he will never be a game changing WR. He can't command a double team.
If he does get it open its because he had the teams #2 CB or a LB covering him.
he has real good hands and is blocking is adequate. But to be able to blow the lid off secondaries..never.
Not every WR needs to "blow the lid off secondaries"
I'll take Joe J over most Boom/Bust WRs ANYDAY...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
One thing I think we can all agree on is that this year is a HUGE show-me year for Robo.
Third year as a WR, new offense that is supposed to make him look better, and a QB that can get him the ball.
If he can't do it now, I don't think he can do it.
That I can agree with,, but not just Robo.. MoMass as well.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The thing is, with this offense, to ball is porbably going to be spread around ALOT...
So most people may see Robo or moMass not having GREAT stats this year as a bad thing, and not realise that we don't have a #1 target, or a #2, or #3...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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That's fair, but I'm not a huge stats guy anyways.
With the past couple seasons they've had, I think it will be clear from what we see on the field if they've got it.
The year-end stat line won't tell the story. Watching them on the field will.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
The thing is, with this offense, to ball is porbably going to be spread around ALOT...
So most people may see Robo or moMass not having GREAT stats this year as a bad thing, and not realise that we don't have a #1 target, or a #2, or #3...
yes. i agree. i expect (hope?) to have 6 or 7 guys in the 40-60 catch range (including Hillis).
#gmstrong
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This year is key for both MoMass and Robo.. if they don't perform well.. Heckert is gonna bring someone else for sure via draft and let Little, Mitchell, Norwood, and Cribbs be the top dogs..
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Not to pick nits, but I think that statement comes from the Department of Redundancy Department. I'm fairly sure that "if they don't perform well.. Heckert is gonna bring someone else for sure" applies to pretty much everyone. 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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If Im selecting a WR #36 in the Draft,he better more than just a 'possesion" move the chains guy.
Mike Wallace was the guy they should have drafted,but Mangini lack of talent evaluation was in full force.
Desean Jackson was drafted around the #30's,and there no WR in the NFL as dangerous as him after he catches a football.
Robiskie's type you can find anywhere in college. 6th RD,undrafted.
he was so overated at OSU
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Quote:
If Im selecting a WR #36 in the Draft,he better more than just a 'possesion" move the chains guy.
Mike Wallace was the guy they should have drafted,but Mangini lack of talent evaluation was in full force.
Desean Jackson was drafted around the #30's,and there no WR in the NFL as dangerous as him after he catches a football.
Robiskie's type you can find anywhere in college. 6th RD,undrafted.
he was so overated at OSU
Easy to say "Draft Mike Wallace" when he has turned into a very good receiver. Every team passed him at least twice, so it isn't like it was known he would develop like he has.
He had 780 yards as a senior. Not exactly eye-popping production froma college receiver.
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I don't care if we have 8 guys with 500 yds each, I just don't want to be at the bottom of team receiving again this year.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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I've said so the day we drafted them and over the last 2 seasons: Robo and MoMass were #2 WR CEILING prospects...the problem with those types is, if they bust you can't use them in the slot and they pretty much are #4-#5 WRs (that's why you don't draft them in the 2nd round...or worse: not back to back in the same draft, doh)....since BOTH haven't even come close to reach their ceiling they're both fringe NFL WR who were forced to start and were overmatched week after week...after seeing them now for 2 seasons I think AT BEST they will develop into fringe #2 WR (read: below AVG starters...and that's their best case) and decent #4/5 WR....to be blunt, I don't want either of them starting on my team if the intention is winning, they're just below AVG possession WR...Robo can't get seperation and MoMass is the worst WR I've ever seen at adjusting to balls in the air...and he has questionable hands....both have no above AVG tools to work with...oh I forgot, they're above AVG to good blockers...Mangini was proud announcing it when he drafted them  I'd start Cribbs and Little with Norwood in the slot...Robo or MoMass as #4...and open competition for #5...I'd look for other team's cuts too (or small trade) to upgrade...again, STL has 8 interesting WR and I can't see then keeping all...and Shurmur knows them
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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McCoy has better OL, FB and RB though...it's a wash
I would give him TE as well. Watson is proven where Gresham is still learning (and more depth).
Also, add in that our RBs (Hillis and B-Jax) are actually suited for the WCO whereas Benson is more just a pure runner.
So, Dalton has a huge advantage in WRs. And that's it. If we win football by building from the inside-out, then we are doing it the correct way. Though I expect a ton of growing pains.
Just the fact that we have to compare ourselves against the Bengals makes me want to puke. They look terrible right now and I do not want to settle for 'Better than the Bengals'.
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MoMass is the worst WR I've ever seen at adjusting to balls in the air
How can you say he's bad at something that he's never even tried to do?
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Robiskie's type you can find anywhere in college. 6th RD,undrafted.
he was so overated at OSU
I would tend to agree with that. When you draft a WR in the second round, I'd at least expect him to dress on gamedays. It seemed like Robo was a healthy inactive for several games his rookie season. I hope the light goes on for him this season, if not it's time to move on.
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It seemed like Robo was a healthy inactive for several games his rookie season.
Do we KNOW how much that was him, and how much that was Mangini?
Add to that our Anti-WR themed offense and Revolving Door at QB the last two years, and I'm not going to sit here and say Robo or MoMass CAN NOT be productive like some people want to...
Is it me, or do some people root AGAINTS players on their OWN TEAM if they didn't like them being picked/signed? Just so they can say "See, I told you!" because as we all know.. that's what's more important...
I've gone off topic...
Towards the end of last year, Robo seemed to come alive, so I'm optimistic.. because, I mean... What choice do i have?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Robiskie's type you can find anywhere in college. 6th RD,undrafted.
he was so overated at OSU
I would tend to agree with that. When you draft a WR in the second round, I'd at least expect him to dress on gamedays. It seemed like Robo was a healthy inactive for several games his rookie season. I hope the light goes on for him this season, if not it's time to move on.
Code:
Not to pick nits, but I think that statement comes from the Department of Redundancy Department.
I think that, that statement also applies here.
We don't have those same folks in charge of the Draft these days ... Robo and MoMass are what they are #2-6 ???. The question now is are they NFL Caliber ... If they can fill a role on this team and be a part of the production, then I think that they are.
We all know [Dogma] that they were a reach back then, but there is nothing we can do now but try and get the best out of them going forward[thinking].
They have for the first time in their young careers an offensive minded head Coach, add to that a true WR Coach.
I think I already see a difference in Cribbs progression at WR this year.
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This year is key for both MoMass and Robo....
I tend to agree. We can argue about what each can/might bring to the table, but by the end of 2011 season we'll know for sure about at least one of those guys, if not both.
And yeah, if they don't impress the FO will turn elsewhere for receiver help next off-season.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I believe that MoMass has a career in the NFL even if it is not as a #1. He will be a #2 somewhere, Robo on the other hand might be playing for his career.
Be next year I see Little as our #1 and MoMass as our #2 and Cribbs as our #3.
yebat' Putin
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I though Robo acquitted himself very well vs. this years top FA and one of the best in the League. The Offensive pass interference was a BS call and should not take away from the fact that he beat his man and made a nice catch on a beautifully thrown pass from Colt McCoy that traveled some 50 yards in the air. He and Little where our only productive WR's vs. the Eagles.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 08/26/11 12:12 PM.
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I though Robo acquitted himself very well vs. this years top FA and one of the best in the League. The Offensive pass interference was a BS call and should not take away from the fact that he beat his man and made a nice catch on a beautifully thrown pass from Colt McCoy that traveled some 50 yards in the air. He and Little where our only productive WR's vs. the Eagles.
That can't be.. everyone knows that Robo is awful and should never have been drafted and should be a burger flipper trainee at Mcdonalds right now... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Robo is an outstanding player and person , and his skill and character , will soon open the eyes of his detractors . Hate is such an ugly trait and it shines through , and overpowers any logic when it's there . 
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Quote:
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I though Robo acquitted himself very well vs. this years top FA and one of the best in the League. The Offensive pass interference was a BS call and should not take away from the fact that he beat his man and made a nice catch on a beautifully thrown pass from Colt McCoy that traveled some 50 yards in the air. He and Little where our only productive WR's vs. the Eagles.
That can't be.. everyone knows that Robo is awful and should never have been drafted and should be a burger flipper trainee at Mcdonalds right now...
No, he should have been there two years ago when we drafted him.
He wouldn't still be a trainee. He might even be a manager by now.
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If he hadn't gone to OSU, no one would be defending him. Robiskie in two seasons - 36 catches, 416 yards, 3 TD's. Massaqoui in two seasons - 70 catches, 1,107 yards, 5 TD's. Robiskie - Went to OSU - Still a good receiver. Massaqoui - Went to SEC school - Let's cut him. 
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i have seen way more 'let's cut Robo' than 'let's cut MoMass' in our threads.
of course, I have also seen that both are terrible and we are in big trouble.
I cheer for the Bucks, but I did NOT like the Robo pick. That said, there is no reason to not hope he can build on the end of last season and hope he develops more. He definitely has limitations and might fall on his face, but do we have much choice right now? Who has looked better this preseason? Norwood is non-existant, MoMass is hurt, we phased out the TEs vs. Philly. It's been Robo and Little with some Cribbs mixed in.
#gmstrong
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dude, our offense has been a solid number two for years.
 You Win Best post of the Month!
This in response to if one of the WR's can become a solid #2 Wr.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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If he hadn't gone to OSU, no one would be defending him.
Robiskie in two seasons - 36 catches, 416 yards, 3 TD's.
Massaqoui in two seasons - 70 catches, 1,107 yards, 5 TD's.
Robiskie - Went to OSU - Still a good receiver.
Massaqoui - Went to SEC school - Let's cut him.
Not sure where you are coming from because I haven't read this thread. I do know that ROBO is the least liked on the roster. The front office built him up last year and almost everyone didn't buy it.
#gmstrong
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If he hadn't gone to OSU, no one would be defending him.
Robiskie in two seasons - 36 catches, 416 yards, 3 TD's.
Massaqoui in two seasons - 70 catches, 1,107 yards, 5 TD's.
Robiskie adjusted numbers if you account for the rate and what Massaqoui has done:
If you extrapolate out what Roboskie would do if he caught as many balls as Massaqoui caught:
70 catches 832 yards 6 tds.
Between Roboskie and Massaquoio in either scenario, I think i'd still need to go with Massaqoui, though we'd still need someone above him on the depth chart.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Quote:
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If he hadn't gone to OSU, no one would be defending him.
Robiskie in two seasons - 36 catches, 416 yards, 3 TD's.
Massaqoui in two seasons - 70 catches, 1,107 yards, 5 TD's.
Robiskie adjusted numbers if you account for the rate and what Massaqoui has done:
If you extrapolate out what Roboskie would do if he caught as many balls as Massaqoui caught:
70 catches 832 yards 6 tds.
Between Roboskie and Massaquoio in either scenario, I think i'd still need to go with Massaqoui, though we'd still need someone above him on the depth chart.
So what you're saying is that he'd be decent if he could get open enough to catch some balls? 
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Robiskie has taken a back seat in preseason. The whole idea of preseason is to get young players like Little up to speed for the regular season.
Robo has 4 receptions and was targeted only 5 times and I don't foresee him getting much work tonight either.
I could care less that he came from OSU (as my #1 is Florida) and I could care less about the fact that he was a high draft selection.
I only care about one thing and that is can he play? I think that he can and I could care less if that's #1 or # 6 WR ... Can he make plays for us? Can he catch the ball? I think that he will.
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Quote:
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If he hadn't gone to OSU, no one would be defending him.
Robiskie in two seasons - 36 catches, 416 yards, 3 TD's.
Massaqoui in two seasons - 70 catches, 1,107 yards, 5 TD's.
Robiskie adjusted numbers if you account for the rate and what Massaqoui has done:
If you extrapolate out what Roboskie would do if he caught as many balls as Massaqoui caught:
70 catches 832 yards 6 tds.
Between Roboskie and Massaquoio in either scenario, I think i'd still need to go with Massaqoui, though we'd still need someone above him on the depth chart.
So what you're saying is that he'd be decent if he could get open enough to catch some balls?
All I am saying on a per catch basis, he has a slightly higher TD catching ratio, though not by much. And his yardage is lowerer as well.
Massaquoi is still the better option here, but not really by that much other than that he might get open more often, the qb might target him more for whatever reason, or he makes the tough catches with defenders on him.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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