DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Tim Tebow/Kyle Orton...your opinion

With ESPN especially talking up this whole Tim Tebow v. Kyle Orton debacle in Denver...Where do you stand. I pose 4 questions to the board...

1. Who would you pick to start and why?

2. What do you think Denver's record would be with Kyle Orton and why?

3. What do you think Denver's record would be with Tim Tebow and why?

4. What do you think Tim Tebow's career prospects are and why?


My opinions:

1. Tebow...He is a winner, and the team played harder for him than they did anyone else. If you tailor the offense to his strengths...getting him out of the pocket, giving him quick presnap reads, and a heavy dose of running (which is fine cuz John Fox likes to run), he could be very very successful. Get him throws where he can take his time. get the OL to hold their blocks as long as possible, and get WRs to run routes that he has been successful with. Then work in the more NFL-based things as he improves.

2. ceiling 9-7, probably 7-9...Orton can do his job well and without a ton of talent around and a scheme change it could be tough to really do well. but Orton is good enough to win 3 games, but he'll lose 1 for you.

3. ceiling 10-6, most likely 5-11...Tebow is a winner, he has done great things, and last year he accounted for 11 tds (6 rushing) and 4 turnovers (3 ints)...thats pretty impressive for a rookie, but his completion percentage was DA-esque as with YPA...I find it hard to bet against a guy who has always been counted out, and has always succeeded.

4. Starter...3 pro bowls (as injury replacement)...I think Tebow has the go get it attitude that makes it impossible to count him out. I dont know why anyone would bet against him because its been done before and he proves everyone wrong every time. He is a born leader and winner...guys play for him, and teams win with him.



your thoughts?

Let me just get this out there. I like Tim Tebow. I hope Tim Tebow succeeds. I just don't think he is an NFL Quarterback.

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1. Who would you pick to start and why?

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Kyle Orton. Because he can throw the football.

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2. What do you think Denver's record would be with Kyle Orton and why?

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6-10. Because the rest of the team is horrible.

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3. What do you think Denver's record would be with Tim Tebow and why?

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4-12. Because the rest of the team is horrible and Tebow can't throw.

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4. What do you think Tim Tebow's career prospects are and why?

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I think the Broncos will be terrible even though Orton will play well at quarterback. By around week right they will be 2-5 or 3-4. They will know they are out of it and they will have to put Tebow in because A)The media will continue to say "They need to put Tebow in to see what he's got and B)They will want to see what Tebow's got for an extended run.

Tebow will then play and play poorly, covering up his lack of traditional QB skills with improvisational plays. Eventually he will start to stink because teams will just force him to stay in the pocket and throw. The Broncos will find out he stinks and draft a QB (Barkley, Luck, Jones, Foles etc.) and trade Tebow.

A team like the Eagles, Chiefs, Packers, or Saints will trade for him. They won't play him for a few years but will strip down his mechanics and let him learn for a few years. Then he will be a free agent and get a shot somewhere to battle for a starting QB spot. And if he improved the couple of years on the bench he will be a successful starter in the NFL.

Has orton done anything to lose the job.. I'm asking cause I don't know. I don't pay any attention to Denver.. All I remember is them going on a terror with Orton at the helm.

Orton has done well before,, Chicago for instance.

Until someone beats him out, I'd stick with Orton.. JMO

How does Quinn fit into this?

Because he is the example for why, if I were Orton, I would want the heck out of Denver. The fans and media will not stop until Tebow is inserted into the starting role, because of the hype and he is a high round draft pick. (Nothing against Tebow, but Orton has shown he can be a serviceable QB over a full season.)
It also shows how they feel about BQ, he'll be 3rd on the depth chart

bench em both and start Quinn......


Quinn to WIn, Quinn to win....Quinn to......wait why isnt anyone else chanting with me?

Ok here we go again

Bra-dy Bra-dy......oh crap never mind! Orton is the starter until Tebow's play justifies him being benched IMO

Tebow is all hoo-rah..

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your thoughts?

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Running QBs never work in the long run. One hit in the knees and its all over. Tebow might have some pizazz about him, but I dont ever see him being a winning QB. In the NFL you gotta do it from the pocket.
Orton might not have the magic to carry a team on his shoulders. But with even a little help he puts up yards, TDs, and wins. I dont get why teams keep wanting to replace him.

overall, i think its very interesting that Quinn is in Denver for all this. I wonder what input he has had for all of this. This is nearly identical as what it was in Cleveland.

Guy who was drafted in the first round by a coach who traded up to get him. He is the backup behind a QB who has had some very good numbers (albeit Orton has had them for more than 10 games) but doesnt seem to be the guy they think is going to lead them to the promised land.

Who do you go with? experienced guy who has been successful? or inexperienced guy who is supposed to be the guy based on how he was acquired.


If im Orton I want the hell out because they wont stop, he can just ask quinn. There wont be enough support for him, and everything will be too divisive to ever work.

If im Denver, I come out and say Tebow is our guy. you almost have to, things will be too divided otherwise. Let him play himself out of a job

had i never seen what happened with Quinn...I would say Orton, but you gotta give him a shot because it wont go away otherwise...


UNLESS...youre John Fox and John Elway, and you say...we think that Kyle Orton is the guy that we want to go forward with. He has a year left on his contract and we are going to give him full opportunity to be the guy for us for a long time. We will begin negotiating an extension when the season is underway, and tim Tebow will be a great security blanket for us. That being said...he will not play until KYLE ORTON has played his way out of town, and we dont see that happening.

I don't care who starts for them as long as we don't face them in the AFC title game on our way to the Super Bowl.

Imagine being beat by Quinn in that game...

I like Tebow.



Not because he was a Gator....more because he brings a winners mentality.



I don't know who is going to start this year.....I do know that Tim will be a good QB in the league and very possibly win a SB MVP.




QB'ing isn't just about you stepping up, it's about getting others to step up....and he does that.



He walks the walk. No pretend there.

But, but, but, WIN WITH QUINN!

No doubt you go with who you think you can win with.....if Quinn is the choice, go for it.

Tebow believes Broncos' QB job 'was grabbed back away'

Aug. 5, 2011

"My dream, since I was a young boy, of being a starting quarterback in the NFL seemed to be coming true," Tebow told The Denver Post on Wednesday. "Then, I felt like it was grabbed back away."

Grabbed back away by Kyle Orton, the subject of swirling trade rumors as training camp opened, before the veteran passer outplayed Tebow and Brady Quinn during drills.

Orton continues to practice exclusively with the first-team offense at Broncos camp, while Tebow, who started Denver's final four games last season, has yet to run a single play behind the No. 1 offensive line.

First-year Broncos coach John Fox hasn't publicly announced his starter, but he has acknowledged that Orton is in the lead.

Tebow's critics have been vocal this week, and so have his supporters. ESPN analyst Merril Hoge ripped the former University of Florida star's playing ability.

"He is awful as far as accuracy goes, and what's kind of even more disturbing, he's probably worse moving and running around with the football and throwing than he is from the pocket," Hoge said on the air. Hoge later tweeted, "Sitting watching tape off bronco offense from last year! Orton or Tebow? It's embarrassing to think the broncos could win with tebow!!"


NBA superstar LeBron James came to the young quarterback's defense, tweeting, "Tim Tebow will succeed in the NFL. He's a hard worker, a student of the game, a natural born leader and most of all a WINNER! It takes time and he'll be nice."

Tebow told The Post that he's ignoring the rising cacophony, but he did respond to Hoge on Twitter, writing: "Hey Merril ... 'ppreciate that."

"I'm trying to insulate myself from what people in the media are saying, but I've seen some of it, and it hurts because it's coming from people who haven't seen me practice, haven't seen me play, haven't seen what I can do," he told the newspaper.

It has been a rocky week for the much-heralded Tebow, but he remains focused on what's ahead.

"Others who say I won't make it are wrong," he said. "They don't know what I'm capable of and what's inside me. My family and my friends have been bothered by what's gone on, and I tell them to pay no attention to it. I'm relying as always on my faith."

The Associated Press contributed to this report

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It sounds as if Tebow is trying to portray himself as a victim in this matter. Tebow needs to shut up and take what happened in stride, with a degree of professionalism. He needs to do his talking on the field, not in the press.

If Orton is outplaying him in practice, he needs to accept it as a challenge and elevate his game.

It looks as if the Donks were ready to hand the ball to Tebow once Orton was traded. But Orton was not traded for some reason and now the Donks are faced with a QB controversy...good for them !

The Donks front office may be showcasing Orton, thinking someone's QB is going to go down and the asking price for Orton in a situation such as that might be much higher.

Tebow needs to accept what has happened use the experience as motivation, rather than crying to media that his job was grabbed away from him.

Welcome to the NFL, Tebow...

The adage is that if you have two quarterbacks, you have no quarterback. I like Tebow, but I just don't see him being a top tier passer. Orton's talent is just low enough that he'll be in a competition for a job every year regardless of how he plays. Coaches will always feel like they need somebody more talented to take the next step.

In watching the first series from each, Orton moved the ball right down the field and Tebow moved it backward. Tebow threw an interception but got lucky on an interference call.

Tebow will go down as a bust....just like Quinn.


I personally like both Quinn, and Tebow but the hype machine was in overdrive with both of these guys! Tebow should move to RB and Denver should run some Wildcat type plays where Tebow can throw down the field.

IMO Orton has the starting job on lockdown.

And on Tebow's second series he promptly throws a 40 some yard pass, and then throws for another first down.

Brady Quinn got us first downs! That doesnt mean that Tebow will succeed in the NFL as a QB.


I just dont see it working out in Denver! The team he needs to be on is the Eagles. He is the same type of player Vick is, but needs a couple years to hold a clipboard, study the playbook, watch film, and adjust to the speed of the game.

I'll say 2 nice things about Tebow.

He had a beautiful pass deep and I love his mobility.

LOL, you must really be Jones'en for a QB controversy.

Tim Tebow/Kyle Orton.

Really?

hahahaha...

ive just been hearing so much about it on ESPN and ESPN radio, i figured those of us used to QB controversies would be experts on it

I dunno... this IS, after all, a football forum. If you're a fan of the game in general (in addition to being a Browns fan), this is a topic of discussion. If you're not interested in the topic, then don't read it. ::shrug::

I agree that McNabb isn't a running QB. Rodgers is more of a running QB than McNabb.

However, Vick's lack of durability is WAY overblown. Here is a list of how many games he started each year in the league:

2001 8 GS (rookie year)
2002 15 GS
2003 5 GS (injured)
2004 15 GS
2005 15 GS
2006 16 GS
2007 --prison--
2008 --prison--
2009 0 GS (backup / wildcat QB)
2010 11 GS (missed 3 games w/ injury after taking over for Kolb)

Out of the 6 seasons where he was the primary starting QB (including last year where he took over for Kolb), he only missed 1 season because of injury and missed a few other games. That's a pretty durable QB. Especially considering how much he runs.

Tebow would have benefitted greatly from going to a team with an older established QB where there were no expectations for him the first few years. Of course the same could have been said of Quinn and a lot of other hyped up QBs... I don't think Tebow would ever be the next Peyton Manning but I think he can still be decent if given the right opportunity.

Does Tebow see the feild last year if Orton doesn't get hurt?

well, outside of fan expectations, isn't that exactly what he has gotten in Denver?

he got to play 3 meaningless games last year. he's pronounced the firm backup by this coaching staff.

and Orton is an older, established QB. he's not Peyton Manning, but few teams have such a guy. I mean look at some of the QBs starting in the NFL this year.

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well, outside of fan expectations, isn't that exactly what he has gotten in Denver?

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Yes except for the fact, as somebody pointed out, Orton has enough holes in his game (as do the Broncos as a team) to not be convincing as the older established QB... Nobody went into last season excited because they still had Orton, this isn't like sitting behind Manning or Brady or Favre... he was sitting behind what was already perceived as a bandaid.