DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Defense as a strength

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If he's anything more than a halfway-decent backup, I'll be surprised.

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3. Phil Taylor, Browns defensive tackle: Cleveland's first-round pick made his presence known during the first week of training camp. Taylor arrived four days late because of a contract dispute. But he was in shape and ready to play on the first-team defense. Taylor was hard to move at the point of attack and also showed the ability to get up the field. Taylor and fellow defensive tackle Ahtyba Rubin could be a tough tandem in the middle of Cleveland's defense.

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If H&H wanted to win 8+ games, they would have filled more depth with experience instead of just projection...this is a conscious rebuild...no more old have beens (or never beens like under Mangini)...to switch system, coaching, age and speed you need at least 1 rebuilding season...I know everybody hates to hear this: but we're rebuilding...unlike the Mangini 1 though, it's a true rebuild and 1 I am willing to back for now....there's a plan, I like the plan and I trust Heckert

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I disagree. After watching Maivia in TC/Pre Season/Season last yr, if he's our starter the Defense isn't very good.

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Sorry to derail your thread here ..... but the Browns made the bad from your link as well ......

2. Cleveland Browns offense: Cleveland's offense has a lot of work to do. The unit did not look game-ready during my week-long visit to Browns camp. There were alignment errors on offense, plenty of drops and an overall lack of talent. Second-year quarterback Colt McCoy had his ups and downs, as well. Fortunately, the Browns have a month to get their new West Coast offense on track.

Wow .... so a team in the firsy week of camp .... with a completely new coaching staff and scheme ..... with no official off-season camps ...... this team looks a little haphazard and not quite "game ready" yet? Really?

Imagine that.

What did he expect ... perfection? lol Add to that the fact that a starting WR and TE were both out as well.

Wow.

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LOL You tell them Ytown...

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I disagree. After watching Maivia in TC/Pre Season/Season last yr, if he's our starter the Defense isn't very good.

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I think it takes some of these guys a few years to mature in the NFL.

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Defense

LE -- Kenyon Coleman, C.J. Mosley, Derreck Robinson

NT -- Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin, Brian Schaefering

RE -- Robaire Smith, Clifton Geathers, Titus Adams

LOLB -- Matt Roth, David Veikune

LILB -- David Bowens, Eric Barton, Jason Trusnik, Titus Brown

RILB -- Scott Fujita, D'Qwell Jackson, Kaluka Maiava, Blake Costanzo

ROLB -- Chris Gocong, Marcus Benard

LCB -- Eric Wright, Joe Haden, Gerard Lawson, Ramzee Robinson

RCB -- Sheldon Brown, Brandon McDonald, Coye Francies

FS -- Abram Elam, Mike Adams, Ray Ventrone

SS -- T.J. Ward, Larry Asante, Nick Sorensen

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/tony_grossis_blog_cleveland_br_10.html

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but if Taylor ends up like Gerard Warren,all money and no game....this D will get stomped on.

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That starting lineup really doesnt look that bad.

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That starting lineup really doesnt look that bad.

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i hope you are correct, but it really reads like you are trying to talk yourself into it.

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haha Veikune...wasn't there so called experts saying how Mangini got the steal of the draft?

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where to begin?
1st, the title of the thread, defense as a strength.

In the philosophical discussion, of defense as a strength vs offense, or a whole team unity, I want to say that for every great defensive dominated championship team I can recall,
85 Bears, 00 Ravens, 86 giants, and others, for every one of those, there is a great offense on that team that is just overlooked.

So in the debate, I say a team is only as good as it's offense.

2nd To the post I read,
That you think the defense will be a strength and you have reasons, is the reason they play the games. To see if your right or wrong.

I'll say that no matter how well this defense, and the team as a whole is put together on paper, that there is a difference between them and Most of the other 31 teams in the NFL.

Most of them have had more games as a team together as a whole, while the Browns seem more like one of those olympic basketball teams that are put together in a short time.
To an extent, that part doesn't apply, because to an extent, part of the Browns have a year or two of experience playing together and have had time to work together to build the nuances that make a team Gel.
For instance, McCoy and even Wallace have part of last year playing with Cribbs, Massaquoi, Robiskie, Watson, Moore, Hillis, and Half (or so) of the O-line is the same as last year, and on defense, well some of them played together at least last year.
Mike Adams, Haden and Ward. But Haden and Ward had Elam and Wright to compliment them last year, so with them gone Haden and Ward might fall off some, ( a sophmore slump) and they'll need time to undestand how to work best with folks like the new players to join the team in the dbs.

Fujita Gocong, and Jackson, Have they all 3 been on the field at the same time before this year , I don't know, because Jackson and Fujita have had alternating missed time because injuries and Gocong has only been on the team , actually I don't remeber how long he's been on the team , THE POINT IS
The point is they don't have the time together that even Ben Taylor, Andra Davis, and Kevin Bentley did late in their rookie year, and EVEN IF those 3 were less apt at the positions and looked unproductive for other reasons, it doesn't change the fact that
The 3 lb's on the Browns are going to be introducing themselves to each other on the field for the first time a a unit this year.

To my last point, ( 3 lbs new), to that, someone might prove me wrong and say "look they actually played more together before" But it won't change the point I'm trying to make which is "even if they have" I'm pretty sure they don't have the time together that even the other 3 teams in our division do in their fron't 7's and LB's more specifically.

Ravens, Steelers, even Bengals, I'm pretty confident have had their lbs together for 2, 3, 4 or more years side by side good or bad, time to develop as team.

3rd. Robaire Smith.

Last week I didn't see him on the Roster, So being this time of year, I don't know how you can count on him, either the team doesn't want him or something, ( which is a shame becaus I think the team needs him if he is even available to give you limited snaps and behind Rubin. )
Team needs him because he can stop the run,
I MEAN THEY DIDN'T KEEP ROTH? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING , I'm thinking this team , AnyBody who made a KEY ! ! ! stop at a Crucial time in the game on a short yardage running play, at any time in the last 4 years, or with Roth anyone who Shot through a gap to tackle a RB for a loss in the last 4 years is
Someone not worth bringing back to the team. ( bad idea imo)

I just see teams running for 500 yards vs the Browns because they don't have anybody who has proven they can stop the run in the front 4. ( Rubin excluded).

4th general response to your post.

This Pre-season, On Paper, Enthusiasm, Tell me how it is different from ANY!!!!! other year this team has put out there since 1999?
Well I'll tell you one, There was Couch's 4th year where the QB had more that could be expected from him than you can Honestly expect from Colt.
There was another year when Jeff Garcia offered more experience and you could expect more than you can this year from Colt.
( But that's why they play the games right.)

What I don't expect from this year, is any excuse for the front 7 to give up large amounts of yardage to RB's, If this Coach, if this Team is going to go with folks like Sheard Taylor and Mitchell (Jayme, not Carlton) over folks like Roth , Robaire Smith, and Rogers, or even Ethan Kelly , Shaun Smith, or Ted Washington ( a stretch, he'd be 40 or so ) but the point is

IN baseball a manager lives and dies by his releif pitcher, but in Football a Caoch lives and dies by decisions like these.
( And I know, Shurmur wasn't around to cut Shaun Smith or Ethan kelly, but he did preside over some of the changes.

And to finish the first half of the first sentence of point #4 , How is this year different from Any other year since 99 and every year
Almost every year, since 99, by about the point this team reaches halftime of game #2, ( or 15 actual minutes into the first reg-season game ) People will be looking at the Team

Looking at the team and saying the Same Thing

Why do the Browns always ( insert adjective )
Why are they bad every year.

Not This year TL, NO! This year they have the OL coming back, they have Hillis, and McCoy is the Real deal, Cribbs' foot is healed, he'll be back to running back kicks for 6 points or almost, 10+ times again,
Not this year, this year they're going to be PREPARED for what it takes to win and they'll be ready in the FIRST games of the season.

This year it is not going to take 4 or so games to get used to the rigors of games that count and pull it all together for a performance that holds on long enough to get a win in the National Football league.

It's why they play the games right! It's why we watch,

It's why we HAVE to watch even if we're often going to be saying , Oh No, how did that happen, after the games done.

I just hope this team takes all the chances to Win and doesn't try to make it close in the last few minutes, but plays to make the opponent want to forfeit, give up, throw in the towell, by the time the last few minutes of game clock arrive.

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where to begin?
1st, the title of the thread, defense as a strength.

In the philosophical discussion, of defense as a strength vs offense, or a whole team unity, I want to say that for every great defensive dominated championship team I can recall,
85 Bears, 00 Ravens, 86 giants, and others, for every one of those, there is a great offense on that team that is just overlooked.

So in the debate, I say a team is only as good as it's offense.

2nd To the post I read,
That you think the defense will be a strength and you have reasons, is the reason they play the games. To see if your right or wrong.

I'll say that no matter how well this defense, and the team as a whole is put together on paper, that there is a difference between them and Most of the other 31 teams in the NFL.

Most of them have had more games as a team together as a whole, while the Browns seem more like one of those olympic basketball teams that are put together in a short time.
To an extent, that part doesn't apply, because to an extent, part of the Browns have a year or two of experience playing together and have had time to work together to build the nuances that make a team Gel.
For instance, McCoy and even Wallace have part of last year playing with Cribbs, Massaquoi, Robiskie, Watson, Moore, Hillis, and Half (or so) of the O-line is the same as last year, and on defense, well some of them played together at least last year.
Mike Adams, Haden and Ward. But Haden and Ward had Elam and Wright to compliment them last year, so with them gone Haden and Ward might fall off some, ( a sophmore slump) and they'll need time to undestand how to work best with folks like the new players to join the team in the dbs.

Fujita Gocong, and Jackson, Have they all 3 been on the field at the same time before this year , I don't know, because Jackson and Fujita have had alternating missed time because injuries and Gocong has only been on the team , actually I don't remeber how long he's been on the team , THE POINT IS
The point is they don't have the time together that even Ben Taylor, Andra Davis, and Kevin Bentley did late in their rookie year, and EVEN IF those 3 were less apt at the positions and looked unproductive for other reasons, it doesn't change the fact that
The 3 lb's on the Browns are going to be introducing themselves to each other on the field for the first time a a unit this year.

To my last point, ( 3 lbs new), to that, someone might prove me wrong and say "look they actually played more together before" But it won't change the point I'm trying to make which is "even if they have" I'm pretty sure they don't have the time together that even the other 3 teams in our division do in their fron't 7's and LB's more specifically.

Ravens, Steelers, even Bengals, I'm pretty confident have had their lbs together for 2, 3, 4 or more years side by side good or bad, time to develop as team.

3rd. Robaire Smith.

Last week I didn't see him on the Roster, So being this time of year, I don't know how you can count on him, either the team doesn't want him or something, ( which is a shame becaus I think the team needs him if he is even available to give you limited snaps and behind Rubin. )
Team needs him because he can stop the run,
I MEAN THEY DIDN'T KEEP ROTH? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING , I'm thinking this team , AnyBody who made a KEY ! ! ! stop at a Crucial time in the game on a short yardage running play, at any time in the last 4 years, or with Roth anyone who Shot through a gap to tackle a RB for a loss in the last 4 years is
Someone not worth bringing back to the team. ( bad idea imo)

I just see teams running for 500 yards vs the Browns because they don't have anybody who has proven they can stop the run in the front 4. ( Rubin excluded).

4th general response to your post.

This Pre-season, On Paper, Enthusiasm, Tell me how it is different from ANY!!!!! other year this team has put out there since 1999?
Well I'll tell you one, There was Couch's 4th year where the QB had more that could be expected from him than you can Honestly expect from Colt.
There was another year when Jeff Garcia offered more experience and you could expect more than you can this year from Colt.
( But that's why they play the games right.)

What I don't expect from this year, is any excuse for the front 7 to give up large amounts of yardage to RB's, If this Coach, if this Team is going to go with folks like Sheard Taylor and Mitchell (Jayme, not Carlton) over folks like Roth , Robaire Smith, and Rogers, or even Ethan Kelly , Shaun Smith, or Ted Washington ( a stretch, he'd be 40 or so ) but the point is

IN baseball a manager lives and dies by his releif pitcher, but in Football a Caoch lives and dies by decisions like these.
( And I know, Shurmur wasn't around to cut Shaun Smith or Ethan kelly, but he did preside over some of the changes.

And to finish the first half of the first sentence of point #4 , How is this year different from Any other year since 99 and every year
Almost every year, since 99, by about the point this team reaches halftime of game #2, ( or 15 actual minutes into the first reg-season game ) People will be looking at the Team

Looking at the team and saying the Same Thing

Why do the Browns always ( insert adjective )
Why are they bad every year.

Not This year TL, NO! This year they have the OL coming back, they have Hillis, and McCoy is the Real deal, Cribbs' foot is healed, he'll be back to running back kicks for 6 points or almost, 10+ times again,
Not this year, this year they're going to be PREPARED for what it takes to win and they'll be ready in the FIRST games of the season.

This year it is not going to take 4 or so games to get used to the rigors of games that count and pull it all together for a performance that holds on long enough to get a win in the National Football league.

It's why they play the games right! It's why we watch,

It's why we HAVE to watch even if we're often going to be saying , Oh No, how did that happen, after the games done.

I just hope this team takes all the chances to Win and doesn't try to make it close in the last few minutes, but plays to make the opponent want to forfeit, give up, throw in the towell, by the time the last few minutes of game clock arrive.

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Nice post we get to see what kind of "strength" we have in a sneak preview on Saturday.

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