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Well, after re-watching the game tonight, I have come to the conclusion that Marecic is definitely not Vickers.

Granted it was only the first game, but I saw no intensity in him like you saw with Vickers. The guy didn't hit his blocks hard, didn't look to go full go, and didn't go out hunting to put someone on their rump like you seen Vickers do. Hopefully he turns out to be a better blocker than what I saw. Not sure if anyone has watched him in camp or got a chance to see him do anything else.

He's definitely not Vickers.

Then again, Vickers wasn't Vickers right off the bat either.

Further, they didn't bring Marecic in to be Vickers.

They brought him in to be a more all around FB, as opposed to being just a blocker.

For what it's worth, I disliked the move .... but I understand why they did it.

And then we can have another discussion. If we cut...say...Dockery and keep J Brown, the debate will go from being about A Smith to being about Dockery...or a backup DL...or another WR...or another OL or ? And so on...

In the end, I think guys like J Brown are a dime a dozen. Give me another DB or developmental lineman in a season where we are not going to win the Division anyway.

I liken it to Larry Asante vs. Ventrone/Sorensen/Castanzo

What is wildly different now is that I have a great deal of confidence in Holmgren & Heckert and their workings with Shurmur...if they keep J Brown, I understand that. If they cut J Brown, I understand that too.

Personally I would value another developmental player over a guy like J Brown.

(And...yes...I know H & H were here last year too.)

So was Vickers actually released or is he still on the roster? I am totally against canning a player just because he does not fit 100% into a certain scheme you are trying to build(except a defensive player with the 34 and 43 defenses). Providing he doesn't have any glaring inefficiencies, who's to say a player can't learn the scheme like everyone else? With offensive players, unless you're super slow, is it truly that hard to play a certain way or catch more passes out of the backfield like the WC offense dictates? Maybe I just don't know enough about the WC offense or the role of the fullback position to know if Vickers would not have been a good fit...

Vickers was never tendered. He is a Texan today.

Had a nice 22-yard reception last night too.

A guy like Wallace has some value ..... and if we can develop a guy like brown, we might be able to move Wallace at ome point for value.

That's the best argument for 3 QBs. If you can showcase your backup, and have that 3rd guy who has promise, then you have options down the road.

The debate will also contain the "could Hillis have done so well last year without Vickers" portion. I know I don't know enough about football to really answer it.

But, I think our offense is going to be different than last year. Hopefully we're not going to rely so heavily on the running game. And, getting Hillis out in open space on dump offs or screens is pretty exciting, too.

The more I think about this whole thing with Favre ...... I wonder if McCoy got a note slipped under his door one night .......

"I know you're a big Brett Favre fan. He knows your new offense as well as anyone, and is willing to spend a few days tutoring you. Here is his number. Give him a call."

Signed: No one even remotely associated with the Browns or their organization"

by Marty Gitlin - Steinbach leaves with trainer
LG Eric Steinbach walked off with a trainer and has been replaced by rookie Jason Pinkston. Steinbach missed the first week of camp with a knee injury, but was not limping when he left practice. Update to come. Browns RapidReports


Replaced by Pinkston and not Murray who had been running with the 1's when Stinny was out earlier in camp.

I think that Pinkston is the future there at LG and he and Lauvao will be our OG tandem of the future.

Training Camp Notebook - 8/16
By Matt Florjancic, ClevelandBrowns.com Staff Writer
Posted 15 hours ago
The Browns have been developing consistency along the offensive line during the 2011 training camp.
Over the last two seasons, the Browns have found a way to mix youth with experience along the offensive line and look to do the same in 2011.
The left side of the line is anchored by four-time Pro Bowl tackle Joe Thomas (fifth season) and guard Eric Steinbach (ninth year). Right tackle Tony Pashos has nine years of service in the NFL, while center Alex Mack, fresh off his first Pro Bowl appearance, is in his third year. Right guard Shawn Lauvao began his second professional season when the team opened camp July 30th.
“We’ve got guys on all sides of their career,” Browns coach Pat Shurmur said Tuesday morning. “We’ve got older veterans; we’ve got some younger guys fitting in and I think the key to the offensive line is that they get to play together, which, fortunately, we’ve done for a few weeks now. I feel like I see progress there. There are a lot of very talented guys that seem to be working well together.”
Despite injuries to Pashos and Lauvao, the Browns’ offensive line blocked for a 1,000-yard running back in Peyton Hillis last season.
This training camp, the team is working with rookie Jason Pinkston , who was the second of the Browns’ two fifth-round picks in April’s draft. Pinkston has been working his way into the rotation as a guard.
“It’s been understated and really not talked about, but he’s a guy that’s got a chance to be a good player,” said Shurmur, a former offensive lineman during his collegiate career at Michigan State. “He’s working through training camp. He’s done some things that you need to see in an offensive lineman as far as coming off the ball, finishing blocks. He’s a real heavy body, lower body guy, he’s got an anchor. He knows how to play the game. We’re pleased with his progress. We’d like to see it keep going.”
Second-year Browns offensive lineman and Youngstown native, Branndon Braxton has also been competing for a spot on the team this summer. Braxton has been working mainly at tackle and is listed as Joe Thomas’ back-up.
“The advantage he has in some regard, he can play tackle; he’s primarily a tackle,” Shurmur said. “He’s done a good job. Again, these next three preseason games, we’ll talk about it tomorrow, but the ones kind of play a half. The twos and threes go in there during the second half. He’s still going to get a bunch of reps, which are going to be important.”
TALKING WITH YATES
The Browns lost one offensive lineman on Monday when veteran Billy Yates talked with the front office about retiring. Monday evening, he was placed on the reserve/retired list.
“I will have some follow-up here as we go; I think it’s important,” Shurmur said. “As I mentioned yesterday, I like Billy. I think he’s a fine man. He was a good, good player for a long time. He was a guy who was undrafted and he fought it out in this league for eight-plus years. That’s a lot to be said for a guy.”
ADJUSTING THE WORKLOAD
For the second straight day, second-year Browns running back Montario Hardesty was able to practice with the team in full pads. Though his carries were down from Monday, it was not due to an injury or setback.
“We had some two-versus-one and one-versus-two,” Shurmur said. “We had a pretty steady rotation in there. It looked like, to me, that he was in there pretty steady throughout the practice. He responded well I thought. There was a little bit of banging and knocking around and I think he handled it pretty well.”

web page

I hope we are just being cautious with our vet (Steinbach) and allowing our rookie (Pinkston) to get more playing time with the starters.

I want to see our best OL we can put forth against the Bengals. Pinkston is hopefully our future at LG, but I want that to remain in the future (for now).

Seems to me that this new regime is being very cautious with injuries. Read quite a few things about a guy walking off with the trainer, and then either coming back soon afterwards with no problems or coming back the next day with no problems.

Some might see it as coddling, though some will see it as being smart. Take your pick.

I also think the absolute flood of easy info contributes to it. I have a feeling small injuries and stuff like that have always happened, but we just never knew about it.

Now, whenever a guy gets his hammy wrapped, it's front page news.

very true. and the social media demands something be put out there every 15 minutes or so, which helps contribute to it.

even Peter King was railing against it in this weeks MMQB

So true. I think it's just a reflection of our real time tech based society today.

Hopefully it's nothing serious and Pinkston is allowed time to develop and hone his skills.

Not much has been talked about with our 2nd 5th round pick, but I think we hit on both.

Insuring a strong OL for the future as well as today.
I had Pinkston as a possible selection with our then 3rd round pick #70. I think if he had been an offensive guard in College we would have heard his name called much sooner in the Draft.

I watched the Packers game last night again (missed most of 2nd half due to storms first time around) and I was blown away with the battle between Pinkston and the DE for the Packers. Incredible trench warfare.

Pinkston, Mack and Lauvao in the middle with Joe Thomas and Pashos on the outside would be one of the biggest and definitely the strongest lines in the league. Only question will be is Pinkston ready to take over for Steiny.

by Marty Gitlin - Reading between lines, Steinbach won't play vs. Lions
One gets the impression from coach Pat Shurmur's comments about rookie LG Jason Pinkston that starter Eric Steinbach (back) won't play on Friday. Shurmur said Pinkston is in line for increased reps against the Lions. Browns RapidReports

Looks Like we get to see him go up against Suh.

By Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer

BEREA -- Observations from Browns morning practice ...

* Even with reduced practice time and a lighter regimen, this is the period of training camp when injuries are unavoidable. Three Browns didn't make it through the 2 1/2-hour practice in shorts and light pads. First left guard Eric Steinbach walked off the field with a trainer when his back acted up. Then it was strong safety T.J. Ward leaving with a tight hamstring. After the practice, Ward said he didn't know the extent and was going to find out. Near the end, running back Peyton Hillis had a hamstring looked at. Rookie Jason Pinkston spent most of the day filling in for Steinbach with the No. 1 offensive line. When Ward got hurt, Mike Adams moved to strong safety and undrafted rookie cornerback James Dockery was the surprise fill-in at free safety. Remember, Usama Young already is out with his own hamstring injury. It's very possible that Pinkston and Dockery will be forced into the starting lineup Friday night against Detroit.

* Hillis' injury may result in the first playing time of the summer for Montario Hardesty. Coach Pat Shurmur was noncommital after practice. The Browns have proceeded cautiously with Hardesty, but he has had a full workload for three days in a row. Hardesty wore a wrap over his left calf on Tuesday, but not today.

* Shurmur was pleased to have gotten in 50 snaps in the red zone in either 7 on 7 or team drills on Wednesday. Those are the money plays, of course, and the Browns' offense historically has been putrid in those situations. Without charting every play, I would say it sure seemed that about one-half of the plays practiced Wednesday involved tight ends. Evan Moore, Alex Smith and rookie Jordan Cameron took turns hauling in TDs with Benjamin Watson still sidelined with a hamstring injury.

* Shurmur spent 10 years with Philadelphia and the last two with St. Louis prior to joining the Browns, but he rarely invokes the names of former players he's coached. He did on Wednesday in a discussion about slot receiver Jordan Norwood. Shurmur compared him favorably to Danny Amendola, who had a career-high 83 catches last season for the Rams.

* Shurmur said his starters will play "close to one half" against Detroit on Friday. He said he's most interested in seeing his No. 1 lines get in at least 20 plays. They were on the field for about 16 last week against Green Bay. web page

Quote:

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(On James Dockery playing safety)- “I think in this game you may see him playing a little bit of safety. He’s shown up well at corner, that’s where he plays. Much like any back-up role player, you’ve got to get it done on special teams and then you have to be somewhat flexible. For a guy that’s caught our eye in some ways, to be able to line up at safety, I think is a good thing.”

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Press conference transcript 8/17

Transcript: Browns head coach Pat Shurmur, 8/17
FS Ohio Staff Reports

August 17, 2011

(Opening statement)- “We had a good practice this morning. We did a lot of red zone, tried to keep the same format as we did a week ago. I took the pads off the guys this morning. We just worked in helmets and protective spider pads. I feel like we got a lot of work done. Today’s practice, (Eric) Steinbach’s back tightened up on him a little bit so we took him in side, just precautionary. T.J. Ward felt his hamstring a little bit, again, precautionary there. Peyton Hillis, at the end of practice, felt his hamstring just a little bit. This is the time of year when you start to get some soft tissue injuries. I wouldn’t call those injuries yet, there was a lot of work that got done so it was just precautionary with T.J. and Peyton. Otherwise, it was good work. We got 50 snaps in the red zone today, which is good, between 7-on-7 and team. That’s a very important part of the game, being successful there whether you’re scoring touchdowns or preventing the scores. I felt like that competition was good.”

(On preparing for the season and preparing for roster cuts at the same time)- “As far as preparing the team, we try to get better each day at something. Today was red zone. We did some base as well. You teach the schemes and as you’re teaching the schemes and running the plays you see how your players fit so that’s part of it. As far as evaluating who the team is, at the end here, their competition and how they perform really direct us to what’s going to happen there. As fans, you could pick out a few guys who are definitely going to make it, but at the bottom part of the roster there’s some good competition right now.”

(On the next step he wants to take in the upcoming preseason game)- “You want to build on the last game. We’re looking generally for efficiency, guys to perform well, eliminate the mistakes and then move forward in terms of the details of the plays that we’re running. That’s what you’re looking for. You’re looking for some consistency and efficiency, and you want to see the guys perform well. When the situations dictate it, you’d like to see guys step up and make plays.”

(On if there’s a position group that will sort itself out own its own through preseason games)- “I think in all the position groups there is something that we take away each preseason game. We’re in a situation right now where we have a couple linebackers that are dealing with some minor injuries. Those guys that step up and play, naturally, we’ll get to see them more than we would if they weren’t. That’s one position. You’re’ always looking at the skill positions. Then what you want to do is see how your draft picks are developing, the younger players. It’s a long winded answer to your question, but I think that’s what you’re looking for.”

(On if he has seen any affects from the lockout)- “I don’t know. I think we’re kind of into this thing, close to three weeks in. We’re all kind of feeling the same things. Their legs are tired, but there’s a certain amount of work that we need to get in. I would say they’re fighting through it pretty well. The overwhelmingly majority of the guys are doing a good job of taking care of their bodies between practices. From that standpoint, it’s probably hard for me to compare because I wasn’t with this crew a year ago. That’s where I’d have a better feel maybe next year.”

(On Owen Marecic and the fullback catching passes out of the backfield)- “I think the fullback needs to be able to catch the football. That’s a position that promotes and lends toughness to your offense because they have to lead block. They’re asked to do a lot of things from the backfield that you require from linemen and guys on the line of scrimmage. But, then you add the added piece of being able to catch the football and then we’ll hand it to him as well. That’s a multi-dimensional position when it comes to playing offense.”

(On how Marecic has performed thus far)- “I think he’s done a good job. Owen’s one of those steady as you go guys. If you’re not looking real hard, he doesn’t say much. His demeanor’s very quiet, but he takes it in and when you watch him, he makes very few mistakes. He gives great effort and I think he’s progressing well.”

(On Jason Pinkston stepping in for Steinbach)- “He’s in there and he’s ready to go. Depending on this weekend, he’ll get more work than he might of had Steinbach not developed this back-whatever, we’ll see.”

(On how much the starters will play and if the game plan will be similar)- “The starters, without saying it definitively, I think the starters will play close to a half. The starting lines played about 16 plays last week and I’d like to see them play up into the 20’s. That would be good. As far as game planning, we always game plan where we do what we do well and there’s always things in the game plan that attack the defense we face. I think that it’s going to be no different than any other game.”

(On if they are looking for anything specific to work on)- “We’re looking to work on things, but you’re not going to see 10 flea-flickers and halfback passes, maybe one. But, there are certain things we’re looking to get. We want to see the guys execute the fundamentals of the offense. That doesn’t understate the fact that we spent time in the offseason and the last couple days preparing for this game.”

(On Jordan Norwood’s skills in the pass game and return game and if he has caught his eye)- “He has. Last year, I was with a guy named Danny Amendola. Let’s forget their size and stature for a minute. That same type of skill set, finds a way to get open. He’s very smart. We lined him up today at the flanker, the X and in the slot. He’s very smart. Typical, if he’s lined up with another receiver out there, he determines on and off. He’s doing a nice job and then you add the return piece on to it. I think he’s doing good.”

(On James Dockery playing safety)- “I think in this game you may see him playing a little bit of safety. He’s shown up well at corner, that’s where he plays. Much like any back-up role player, you’ve got to get it done on special teams and then you have to be somewhat flexible. For a guy that’s caught our eye in some ways, to be able to line up at safety, I think is a good thing.”

(On evaluating his defense)- “I was pleased with the way they played. There was a lot of good physical play. We played a lot of man coverage. You didn’t see guys running wide open. I thought the coverage was tight. For the most part, the receivers were challenged and we did create some pressure and disrupt the quarterback. Those were all good things. I’m pleased with where they’ve come in less than three weeks.”

(On Kaluka Maiava stepping up)- “He’s one of those guys that’s benefitting from the reps. He’s probably known as a special team’s type guy that’s a backup player, but he’s stepped in and done a nice job. I feel like he can play on scrimmage downs and most likely he will.”

(On Maiava’s size)- “When you step up on him, he’s not tall, but he’s got some size to him which is evident when you get real close to him.”

(On if the second game is the midway point for training camp)- “I wouldn’t consider it the hump because the third preseason game is a game where we’ll play the number one units or the guys that we feel are starters even more than a half. I wouldn’t consider it the hump as a half way part of the preseason games. When you play the preseason game it’s exciting. But, once the game is over and you get them back out here, it was just a fancy practice in the midst of training camp. As you evaluate it after the fact, we play Friday and were in here on Sunday practicing then we’re right into training camp mode. I wouldn’t call it the hump, but there’s some light at the end of the tunnel in terms of getting your team ready for the first game.”

(On guys at the bottom of the roster getting their last chance to play in the preseason games)- “Typically, the fourth preseason game, they play the whole game. It’s where you need to really start picking up the pace if you’re going to have a chance to make it.”

(On what was said after Jarrett Brown threw an interception against Green Bay)- “There’s reasons for everything and I think he would agree you can’t throw that ball. It was a corner route and a defender was underneath it so you just pump fake it and try and run to get a couple yards. If you can’t run then you throw it away. That’s what you say. Then you say, ‘Now that’s over so let’s go onto the next one.’ That’s what you do. Unfortunately, every once in awhile a quarterback is going to have a bad play. The key is to not put two together. What I liked about what he did though was he came out after that and really managed, very well, a four-minute drive that melted a lot of clock and put us in position to kick a field goal and make it a two-score lead. From that standpoint, I thought he did a good job.”

(On working on split back formations)- “I like running the ball and throwing the ball out of split backs. That could be a fullback and a halfback or it could be two halfbacks. We train them that way. We have a solid portion of our offense that’s a two back set. It just showed up today, there were certain things we were working on and our progression of putting the plays in. We were working on that a little bit more today than you’ve seen in the last couple.”

(On running that formation anywhere on the football field)- “We can do it coming out all the way to going in. The situation dictates you can it anywhere.”

(On if Montario Hardesty will play Friday)- “Still haven’t finally decided on that. Tonight’s the night we’re we really zero in on who’s available and who’s going to play and how much.”

(On if Ndamukong Suh commands a lot of attention even in a preseason game)- “Doesn’t matter, when there are good players out there, they’ll get your attention. Obviously, if you’re going to have success against Detroit, you have to block that front. He’s an outstanding player one of the finest in the league, but he’s only one of a bunch of very talented guys on that defense.” web page

Just a general reply:

We will keep 3 QB. The rules make it senseless not to. It's not going to be "at the expense" of anyone or any other position ....... it's because we will keep 3 QBs. If we don't keep this QB, then we'll get a different one to take his place.