DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum What next? States mull taxing drivers by the mile

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44122391/ns/business-autos/t/states-mull-taxing-drivers-mile/?GT1=43001


DETROIT — Might you someday pay taxes by the mile?

It took Carol Hinka some time to get used to paying tolls when she moved to Central New Jersey two years ago, first on the Garden State Parkway, then the New Jersey Turnpike on her daily commute to her office just west of New York City.

But when she learned her insurance company was experimenting with the idea of charging by the mile — much the way the toll roads base their fees — she began to wonder why she couldn’t pay by the mile for all of her automotive expenses, rather than the current hodgepodge that includes fixed state and federal fuel taxes.

More must-read stories AP Who won't be paying taxes this year
Life Inc.: New report estimates that 46 percent American households will pay no federal income tax this year.

.Life Inc.: That jerk at work may make more than you, nice guy
Life Inc.: Buffett touches a nerve with tax plea
Your Career: Personality tests and fairness in hiring
Life Inc.: Finding workers who show up on time
..Hinka isn’t alone. A number of regulators and planners think the idea of charging by the mile is a great idea — something that could gain even more traction if electric propulsion grows in popularity. Since hybrids use less fuel than comparable conventionally powered vehicles and battery-electric vehicles use no fuel at all, there’s the potential for government coffers to lose billions of dollars a year in annual revenues used for road maintenance and other projects.

To replace those revenues, several states — along with a number of European countries — are exploring the idea of establishing per-mile fees that would use GPS navigation systems to track how much a vehicle is driven. There could be a fixed-rate charge or the fee might be adjusted to reflect the fuel-efficiency of a vehicle, perhaps even when and where it was driven.

A proposal introduced in the Oregon legislature, for example, proposed a charge of about 0.85 cent per mile through 2015, with the figure jumping to 1.85 cents per mile by 2018. The typical American motorist getting a combined 25 mpg today pays just under 2 cents a mile in fuel excise taxes — which vary widely by state. So the initial figure would not be out of line with the portion Oregon itself currently charges — though the 2018 fee would likely amount to a fuel tax increase for most drivers.

The Oregon measure has been stalled in debate, and similar proposals in Texas, Minnesota and other parts of the country haven’t caught on yet, either.

.In Europe, with its crowded roads and a growing sensitivity to environmentally related issues, the issue of per-mile road charges has been widely discussed and was the subject of an extensive test in the Netherlands, where traffic problems are considered to be among the most severe on the Continent.

That was supposed to lead to the institution of a national per-mile system in 2012, but despite the seeming success of the test project, it was shelved after a new government took office last year.

A report in the International Herald Tribune says the project wasn’t popular but did prove effective, with many participants, after watching a taxi-like meter on the dashboard count off the added charges, deciding to reduce their driving or even switch to mass transit.

The Dutch system would have not only charged by the mile but adjusted the fee depending on the fuel efficiency of the vehicle being driven. Driving in rush hour would’ve been more expensive, as would taking more congested highways.

“The trials work well, but it’s first a psychological issue and second a political choice,” Eric-Mark Huitema, a specialist with IBM, which developed the system, told the newspaper.

For American motorists, the idea seems to be running into resistance among those who fear Big Brother will know too much about their comings and goings – though advocates insist the system won’t actually track specifically where a vehicle is driven.

Few experts anticipate the issue to go away. It’s unlikely electric vehicles will gain more than a small share of the market for at least the next decade, according to a recent study by J.D. Power and Associates, which expects hybrids, plug-ins and battery-electric vehicles combined to achieve no more than a 7 percent share of the U.S. market by 2020. But even conventional vehicles will be using significantly less fuel in the years ahead, sharply reducing government revenues.

By 2025, the federal corporate average fuel sconomy standard will reach 54.5 mpg, about twice as high as when the President Barack Obama took office. With Americans actually driving less as fuel prices soar, there seem few options to recover lost highway revenues other than raising excise taxes or adopting an alternative system, acknowledges Mary D. Nichols, chair of the California Air Resources Board.

“It is an issue we will have to deal with,” Nichols told TheDetroitBureau.com earlier this year, though it is not one the environmental bureaucracy is happy to deal with.

That’s especially the case when it comes to electric power. Advocates like to promote the fact that it costs the owner of a battery car like the Nissan Leaf around 2 cents a mile for the electricity it uses — compared with 10 cents or more for a comparable gas-powered vehicle. So adding just a penny or two in new fees could mean a significant percentage increase in driving costs — and reduce the savings on fuel needed to offset the higher price for a battery vehicle.

But with the increasing strain on government revenues, few expect the idea of a pay-as-you-drive system to go away. Oregon advocates plan to keep pressing for a per-mile tax bill, and in Europe, Belgium will launch a small test program starting in September. If the tiny country adopts the idea across the board, bigger nations like Germany are expected to follow.

Quote:

---

For American motorists, the idea seems to be running into resistance among those who fear Big Brother will know too much about their comings and goings – though advocates insist the system won’t actually track specifically where a vehicle is driven.

---

I call a Big BS on this one. Just because they say they won't do it...doesn't mean they can't do it or will not do it in the future or that someone else won't do it. Heck they do it already with On Star, Lo Jack, your cell phones and other gps devices.

I say a big "Hell No" to this idea.

Quote:

---

A report in the International Herald Tribune says the project wasn’t popular but did prove effective, with many participants, after watching a taxi-like meter on the dashboard count off the added charges, deciding to reduce their driving or even switch to mass transit.

---

Which is exactly what we need, more social manipulation through the tax code.

This is insanely stupid by the way.

The reason this is a bad idea is because the government is TERRIBLE with money. It's like giving straight cash to a drug addict. They will just blow it away without doing anything real with it.

Now, if all this money went into the hands of, say ODOT, and that company had a track record (haha) of good accounting and great roads, then ok. But no, we have no accountants in Washington, only lawyers

this won't pass anytime soon, but if it does and we all go out and buy older cars or cheaper versions w/o GPS in them, then how does the gov't track your miles?

how much initial cost will be associated with those GPS systems and who pays for it?

just one of the many, many reasons this won't pass anytime soon.

Stupid.

The old governmental "law of unintended consequences".

In a Cal. town/city, the city said "save water". The residents did. So much, that they were rewarded with higher water bills because the city was losing money on it's water department because they didn't sell enough.

My example with Toledo Edison. I'm not all electric. We're constantly told to save electricity - don't use as much. My reward? I get to pay more for the less amount I use.

Now this. Save gas. Go green. Drive hybrids, go electric vehicle......save the planet. Get vehicles with better gas mileage. Then: "oh, crap - we don't get as much money from the gas tax as we used to. Better find a way to make that up."

Typical of most government actions. The law of unintended consequences. But don't worry - the gov't. is just looking out for us. And looking AT our pocketbooks.

oh my....really? what are they thinking? I think this bout sums it up.


............................................________
....................................,.-‘”...................``~.,
.............................,.-”...................................“-.,
.........................,/...............................................”:,
.....................,?......................................................\,
.................../...........................................................,}
................./......................................................,:`^`..}
.............../...................................................,:”........./
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
............./__.(.....“~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_....”~,_........“~,_....................,:`........_/
..........{.._$;_......”=,_.......“-,_.......,.-~-,},.~”;/....}
...........((.....*~_.......”=-._......“;,,./`..../”............../
...,,,___.\`~,......“~.,....................`.....}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-”
............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\
.............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__
,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|..............`=~-,
.....`=~-,_\_......`\,.................................\
...................`=~-,,.\,...............................\
................................`:,,...........................`\..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_\..........._,-%.......`\
...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\

Dumb idea.



Just another way to choke business in this country.


There are thousands of sales people who drive 60,000 miles a year...truck drivers hauling freight.....this is getting insane.


If they want to talk about taxing something, how about what they are going to tax all electric vehicles, which pay no road taxes for using the roadways, since they pay no tax at the pump.




I am tired of the crap.....it has to end......NOW.



Then again, maybe this is the angle they are taking, but I doubt it.




Do any of you ever feel like punching someone in the face??

You know what's funny about the truck drivers? They are already getting it up the "you know what" by the EPA and their 2010 and 2014 emissions standards that raised the cost of trucks by about $14,000 and their downtime due to "regeneration problems."

i didnt even realize that this would triple screw the truckers as well. screw that. they already get the short end of the stick.

So they let gas costs go through the roof. Then they start pushing renewable energy powered vehicles. Now they just figured out that they can't tax a gallon of electric.... oops. Guess they should ban it like 'Pot'.

My bad I read it as 0.85 per mile not 0.85 cent per mile.

Quote:

---

Do any of you ever feel like punching someone in the face??

---

That should be a poll. I'd vote for 24/7.

Actually, I think this is a great idea. Currently, the government heavily subsidizes the consumption of gasoline to the tune of several dollars per gallon. What this means is that when someone drives somewhere, that person is not paying the costs of consuming oil. This results in a society where gasoline is too cheap and oil is overconsumed. Inefficiency results in many forms such as urban sprawl.

Django?????

Time to switch back to the old horse and buggy, and tell the government to kiss my butt.

Quote:

---

and tell the government to kiss my butt.

---

Hey!!!!!! a definitive and absolute death sentance for the government...We should have thought of this a long time ago....GM get those cheeks ready.....lol

They are always ready Pete and i still have a hair trigger

Well just be careful where you aim that thing!!!!!

don't worry eyebrows grow back.

Mine never did.

Opps Sorry

I hear that Ohio is considering taxing certain gaseous emissions ........ both by the incident .... and by volume.

That's OK I will just quit my job, get a free house, free medical, food stamps, and a 20,000 tax refund for not working. They will then be paying me to fart while taxing half the other people.

You misunderstood ..... they aren't paying ..... they're taxing ..........

But they only tax working people, that's why he will quit his job and live off the government.

You got it Florida.

That won;t work. We're going to impliment the "Cork Solution". Those who don't pay their tax ... get the cork.

You'll come up with the money somehow.

The cork's only hold a few days, trust me on that one

They superglue it ....... then superglue you to your desk.

Should make for an interesting aerial display to the south .......

I think my burps are really going to stink.

here is another problem. I know this will happen for me. The cost will be passed down to the consumer. That means products you buy everyday will go up and your sales tax on those items will go up.
On paper you'll say its only perhaps a 1/2 cent per $1 but how many dollars of items do you purchase per year?

In my trade we've had 4 8% increases in product prices this year alone due to gas prices. They force me to increase my prices which also means a nice increase for the gov. in sales tax rev.
Do the math on that about a total of 36% increase overall product cost and then a 12% increase in final cost = a nice increase in sales tax for the gov.