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http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/feds-amtrak-acela-4-5-million-per-second-131422637.htmlThe Department of Transportation announced Monday that the government will spend $450 million upgrading a 24-mile stretch of rail between Trenton and Brunswick, New Jersey, on the busy Northeast Corridor to allow Amtrak's signature Acela trains to reach 160 miles-per-hour. The speed-limit increase would save about one minute and forty seconds, Bloomberg reports — meaning the upgrade will cost about $4.5 million per-second. An additional $295 million will be spent to separate Amtrak trains from Long Island Rail Road trains in Queens — to speed travel times north from Manhattan. The money for high speed rail improvements comes from funds originally granted to Florida in the 2009 stimulus bill that the state sent back earlier this year. House Republicans had sought to divert some of the funding to flood relief in the Midwest. "These grants are a win for our economy and a win for commuters all along the Northeast Corridor," Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said. "We are creating new construction jobs, ordering American-made supplies and improving transportation opportunities across a region where 50 million Americans live and work." The Department of Transportation estimated that the grants would create 12,000 jobs. Amtrak said the improvements are the first steps toward 220 mile-per-hour service on the line which links Washington, D.C., New York, and Boston.
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Dawg Talker
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Are you freakin' kidding me? $450 million dollars to shave less than 2 minutes off of travel time between two points?
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Legend
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This is exactly what is wrong with gov't. They had money from the stimulus bill (money that Florida said "we don't want it" to)....so what does our esteemed gov't. do?
They plan to spend $450 million to upgrade a 24 mile stretch of railroad. So Amtrak's Acela trains can get up to 160 mph.
At 160 mph, the ride will save - - - - -1 minute and 40 seconds.
$450 million to save 1 minute and 40 seconds.
Oh, they say they will "create" 12,000 jobs. They didn't mention that they will be basically temporary jobs, meaning after the construction, those 12,000 jobs will be gone.
$450 million - 1 minute and 40 seconds. 12,000 jobs "created".
For Amtrak - which can't make a profit regardless.
Is this "good" spending by our gov't.?
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Dawg Talker
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What's crazier is that Amtrak is a private company. Why do they get the money from the gov't? It's getting out of hand.
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Quote:
Are you freakin' kidding me? $450 million dollars to shave less than 2 minutes off of travel time between two points?
This makes me sick........
Amtrack is the stupidest thing in the world. It just doesn't work. Even in my area where it's somewhat profitable, it's still overpriced (and slow, which I guess this is working toward, but come on, 450 million?)
I just hate how the government says "Oh, well we have the money so we might as well spend it"
There's so many better ways to spend the money, if only putting it against our national debt.............
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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They didn't mention that they will be basically temporary jobs, meaning after the construction, those 12,000 jobs will be gone.
$450 million - 1 minute and 40 seconds. 12,000 jobs "created".
Arch, you misread. Both grants together will 'create' 12000 jobs. That's the $450mil for NJ and the $295 for NYC-LI. So, it's actually, $645mil for 12000 temporary construction jobs.
It's not quite as simple math to divide to get an accurate number (since there are subsidiary benefits from the supplies they mentioned will be USA-made), but if you did just do the divide:
$645mil/12000 = $53750 per job. Sadly, not the worst ratio I have seen from the government.
Also, I'd like to see more on the 2nd project because separating those lines might be more warranted (at least seemingly more warranted over shaving a couple minutes off the other time)
#gmstrong
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Not taking sides on this particular project - but it seems like the emphasis on 2 minutes travel time is suspect.
I assume these rails (like many around the country) are rotting away as we speak -- maybe these rails just need to be fixed up (and with the new rails, they can go faster).
Doesn't sound as crazy then.
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
Not taking sides on this particular project - but it seems like the emphasis on 2 minutes travel time is suspect.
I assume these rails (like many around the country) are rotting away as we speak -- maybe these rails just need to be fixed up (and with the new rails, they can go faster).
Doesn't sound as crazy then.
I understand your point.
However - $450 million to upgrade 24 miles?????
I drive a fair amount - in n.w. Ohio. The 3 rail lines that run through here are being "fixed" - new ties. I would say it's a good 50 mile stretch, if not much more. (I can't speak for the much more, as I haven't seen the ties sitting further out than 50 miles.)
And trust me - it's not a $450 million project.
It's not like they are building this. And by that I mean if you look at road construction, vs. road repaving, yeah, the construction costs a lot more than the just grinding the top inch or 2 and repaving it.
If you don't think $450 million to upgrade a mere 24 miles of tracks is outrageous, that's fine. I happen to think it is outrageous. And the benefit? 1 minute, 40 seconds of time.
Let me put it this way: I wouldn't pay a wooden nickel to save 1 minute and 40 seconds even if it was on my 5 mile drive to town.
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yeah, but his point (and it's a good one) is that the rails may be falling apart. if so, then it needs to be done. Amtrak is a waste of rails in most of the country, but is heavily used in the NE corridor.
would be nice to know if that is the case though.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
yeah, but his point (and it's a good one) is that the rails may be falling apart. if so, then it needs to be done. Amtrak is a waste of rails in most of the country, but is heavily used in the NE corridor.
would be nice to know if that is the case though.
True.
But the ACTUAL point is they are spending $450 million on 24 miles of track. That's almost $19 million per mile.
That doesn't sound like just "fixing" the tracks. That sounds like they're doing it for Amtrak.
And, don't forget - this is only being done because the state of Florida refused the stimulus money - THIS stimulus money.
Apparently this wasn't a necessity prior to Florida saying "we don't want the money", but it somehow became a necessity when the money was sitting there.
Apparently there wasn't a dire need before they had the money sitting there? Perhaps no need at all?
Let's face it - they're spending money to spend it. It's sitting there. When's the last time, or FIRST time, gov't. has said "well, we didn't need to spend the money, so we didn't."?
And none of my discussion is even including the 295 million for the other project.
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that is quite possible as well, which is why I hedged. if only journalism had not died 10 years ago perhaps a reporter could actually try to uncover if this was a necessary project.
#gmstrong
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also, it says 24 miles of rail - makes it sound like there might be multiple tracks they are fixing (the NE corridor is really dense).
I don't like Amtrak much either, it would be much better if they eliminated the cross-country stuff. They are actually pretty profitable in a few isolated pockets (NE corridor, Chicago->Milwaukee, Chicago->Detroit, LA->Seattle)
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 08/23/11 02:38 PM.
~Lyuokdea
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that is quite possible as well, which is why I hedged. if only journalism had not died 10 years ago perhaps a reporter could actually try to uncover if this was a necessary project.
Like I said - I agree. If it was NECESSARY, then do it. But not to the tune of $19 million per mile. Not for the benefit of 1 minute, 40 seconds of time.
It is a waste of money. Taxpayer money. (actually, it's borrowed money that tax payers are supposed to somehow, somewhere come up with). It's ......it's.............just how our gov't. works.
Money we don't have? Heck, find something to spend it on.
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What's crazier is that Amtrak is a private company. Why do they get the money from the gov't? It's getting out of hand.
It's simple, someone lobbied someone in government.. That's how it works.
Not how it should work, but that's how it works...
DUMB DUMB Waste of money.., could go towards the debt, could go toward something that is actually worthwhile.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Interesting thing is that Florida couldn't take the money unless they used it for the specific purpose of a proposed high speed rail. Would have been nice to get the money and use it for roads, infrastructure and such. But I will rest easy knowing those in the NJ/NYC area will get to work 2 minutes faster. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Doing some investigative reporting (via google maps):
There are two/three tracks for most of the way - but there are as many as 6 at points along the route.
The very first mile contains 7 bridges (by my count) - mostly moving over a number of streets through the downtown area. There are 17 bridges over waterways on the route.
A few miles in there's a tricky area where 6 tracks pass under a Hwy. 1, which is a 6 way freeway. There is another 6 lane Highway (County Route 522) and again over County Route 614. Then there is an 8 lane highway it goes under (Highway 295). There's are Amtrak stops in the middle of this route (Princeton and Hamilton Stations) where there are several junctions.
I can see where the money adds up.
~Lyuokdea
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jc... found this Quote:
Costs of light rail construction and operation
The cost of light rail construction varies widely, largely depending on the amount of tunneling and elevated structures required. A survey of North American light rail projects[26] shows that costs of most LRT systems range from $15 million per mile to over $100 million per mile. Seattle's new light rail system is by far the most expensive in the U.S. at $179 million per mile, since it includes extensive tunneling in poor soil conditions, elevated sections, and stations as deep as 180 feet (55 m) below ground level.[27] These result in costs more typical of subways or rapid transit systems than light rail. At the other end of the scale, four systems (Baltimore MD, Camden NJ, Sacramento CA, and Salt Lake City UT) incurred costs of less than $20 million per mile. Over the U.S. as a whole, excluding Seattle, new light rail construction costs average about $35 million per mile.[26]
LINK
This of course includes all the site work and prep work, which if they are "replacing" rail then most of that should be done.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Not $19 million per mile. It's a blatant example of gov't. saying "hey, on paper we have this money. Gotta spend it somewhere."
This obviously isn't "fixing" dilapidated railroad tracks - this is over spending so that, at some point in the future, gov't. and/or congress people can say "look, I/we were supporting high speed rail, just trying to save the country, " etc etc etc.
For what? 1 minute and 40 seconds over 24 miles.
If it was a true NEED, the state would've done something about it, or the feds, or......Amtrak???? It obviously wasn't a NEED.
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Quote:
jc...
found this
Quote:
Costs of light rail construction and operation
The cost of light rail construction varies widely, largely depending on the amount of tunneling and elevated structures required. A survey of North American light rail projects[26] shows that costs of most LRT systems range from $15 million per mile to over $100 million per mile. Seattle's new light rail system is by far the most expensive in the U.S. at $179 million per mile, since it includes extensive tunneling in poor soil conditions, elevated sections, and stations as deep as 180 feet (55 m) below ground level.[27] These result in costs more typical of subways or rapid transit systems than light rail. At the other end of the scale, four systems (Baltimore MD, Camden NJ, Sacramento CA, and Salt Lake City UT) incurred costs of less than $20 million per mile. Over the U.S. as a whole, excluding Seattle, new light rail construction costs average about $35 million per mile.[26]
LINK
This of course includes all the site work and prep work, which if they are "replacing" rail then most of that should be done.
Exactly.
And I said that earlier - this isn't building "new", this is, supposedly, "fixing" what already exists.
The example I gave about building a brand new road vs. repaving an existing road stands. Costs will be very different.
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Well, this is asinine. Yep ... better raise taxes so we can waste money like this ...... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I use NJ Transit to get to work everyday in Manhattan. Currently I use the NJ Coast Line, but I used to ride on the NE Corridor. Amtrak is heavily used around here as it is the quickest way for many to travel to Philly, Washington, Boston etc. The NE Corridor is a mess. It is true when they say that it is the busiest line in the country. This track repair is not just the tracks but also the signals, lines and switches that are used to operate the trains etc. This is a massive upgrade to this area that is sorely needed, as this line is the only means to the city for thousands of workers in the area. What many people do not realize is that Amtrak and NJ Transit share tracks throughout Jersey into New York. The amount of travel that goes on daily on these tracks is crazy and things are constantly delayed due to faulty equipment etc. I know it is a lot of money, but the repairs are sorely needed due to the delays etc that faulty equipment causes. Just a little background info. 
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Good to hear first hand. These costs are eye popping, but NE uses this. I like the jobs end a lot more than larding up the banks. People working and Americans benefitting is great. Time isn't the issue her as much as tangible and improved infrastructure. Also, the equivalent in highway maintenance say over 10 years scales it a bit. We have plenty to gripe about, but Americans working more is something I favor.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
I use NJ Transit to get to work everyday in Manhattan. Currently I use the NJ Coast Line, but I used to ride on the NE Corridor. Amtrak is heavily used around here as it is the quickest way for many to travel to Philly, Washington, Boston etc.
The NE Corridor is a mess. It is true when they say that it is the busiest line in the country. This track repair is not just the tracks but also the signals, lines and switches that are used to operate the trains etc. This is a massive upgrade to this area that is sorely needed, as this line is the only means to the city for thousands of workers in the area.
What many people do not realize is that Amtrak and NJ Transit share tracks throughout Jersey into New York. The amount of travel that goes on daily on these tracks is crazy and things are constantly delayed due to faulty equipment etc. I know it is a lot of money, but the repairs are sorely needed due to the delays etc that faulty equipment causes.
Just a little background info.
Thanks for the insight.
And, you should thank Florida for giving up the money.
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What I don't get is why the US government has to, or should, pay for a private corporation to upgrade their facilities/equipment.
I could even almost see if it was a loan of some sort .... but it's like handing McDonalds money to replace arches ...... I don't see the value to the taxpayer.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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12,000 new union jobs...12,000 more votes for the King.
If people in the NE corridor need the "new" rail, then they should bear the cost.
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Without knowing anything about the NE corridor, I'll venture a guess and say that the lines are just being upgraded to a new standard (one that Amtrak has already done with that fancily-named train). Out here in California, Amtrak runs on the same lines as the local commuter trains.
I don't know what the agreement is between Amtrak and the local government who maintains the tracks, but Amtrak certainly doesn't own them.
This sounds like a crappy reporter trying to get under people's skin. Sounds like they emphasized certain points and left out others.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
I use NJ Transit to get to work everyday in Manhattan. Currently I use the NJ Coast Line, but I used to ride on the NE Corridor. Amtrak is heavily used around here as it is the quickest way for many to travel to Philly, Washington, Boston etc.
The NE Corridor is a mess. It is true when they say that it is the busiest line in the country. This track repair is not just the tracks but also the signals, lines and switches that are used to operate the trains etc. This is a massive upgrade to this area that is sorely needed, as this line is the only means to the city for thousands of workers in the area.
What many people do not realize is that Amtrak and NJ Transit share tracks throughout Jersey into New York. The amount of travel that goes on daily on these tracks is crazy and things are constantly delayed due to faulty equipment etc. I know it is a lot of money, but the repairs are sorely needed due to the delays etc that faulty equipment causes.
Just a little background info.
I am currently doing a job in this area. Red Bank, Rumson and Sandy Hook. The NJ Transit that you speak of is, if my understanding is correct, the most densely set of tracks and highly commuted railways in the entire world.
The tracks are a mess. I picked up a guy working for us, who flew into La Guardia, I picked him up in Red Bank via Penn station. Trains are packed and rails are a mess. Seems to me, in my brief experience, upgrades are needed.
As to why Amtrack is getting federal funds, many private general contractors bid federal and/or stae jobs.
Of that $450 mil, hundred of thousands coud lbe be pumped back into the local economy from, materials, lodging for employees, food, etc...
There are many more wasteful items I can imangine. Just my thoughts anyway.
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Quote:
Quote:
I use NJ Transit to get to work everyday in Manhattan. Currently I use the NJ Coast Line, but I used to ride on the NE Corridor. Amtrak is heavily used around here as it is the quickest way for many to travel to Philly, Washington, Boston etc.
The NE Corridor is a mess. It is true when they say that it is the busiest line in the country. This track repair is not just the tracks but also the signals, lines and switches that are used to operate the trains etc. This is a massive upgrade to this area that is sorely needed, as this line is the only means to the city for thousands of workers in the area.
What many people do not realize is that Amtrak and NJ Transit share tracks throughout Jersey into New York. The amount of travel that goes on daily on these tracks is crazy and things are constantly delayed due to faulty equipment etc. I know it is a lot of money, but the repairs are sorely needed due to the delays etc that faulty equipment causes.
Just a little background info.
I am currently doing a job in this area. Red Bank, Rumson and Sandy Hook. The NJ Transit that you speak of is, if my understanding is correct, the most densely set of tracks and highly commuted railways in the entire world.
The tracks are a mess. I picked up a guy working for us, who flew into La Guardia, I picked him up in Red Bank via Penn station. Trains are packed and rails are a mess. Seems to me, in my brief experience, upgrades are needed.
As to why Amtrack is getting federal funds, many private general contractors bid federal and/or stae jobs.
Of that $450 mil, hundred of thousands coud lbe be pumped back into the local economy from, materials, lodging for employees, food, etc...
There are many more wasteful items I can imangine. Just my thoughts anyway.
Kash, to note, I was agreeing with your observation and was generally confirming my own observation.
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12,000 new union jobs...12,000 more votes for the King.
If people in the NE corridor need the "new" rail, then they should bear the cost.
Not necessarily, depending on the contractor awarded the job. However, if not union, it is required to pay the prevailing wages. And they are quite high in the area.
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Just Clicking......
Other costs that people never take into account is just the simple cost of shutting lines down and having to reroute. Whether it is roads or rail lines or even just rooms in a building that can't be used. The disturbance of flow is a huge cost. It may affect WHEN you can work on projects and that could stretch a project out longer than you would wish, since you can only work on it at certain times of the day, etc. For alot of these lines they have to build a whole new line to reroute to...so they can then fix the old one....
So it not just as simple as materials for a section, labor, and time to fix....everything has to continue on schedule as it did before as you build and fix these lines...and in order to do that.....well most of the time accomplishing that costs more than the fix itself.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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How dare the US Government spend taxpayer dollars on projects that benefit "Americans"...American citizens and workers.
Here is a great example off the type of spending Republicans support, no questions asked !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rebuilding Iraq: Slow but steady progress
By Matt Kelley, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Seven years after the invasion, the reconstruction of Iraq has taken longer and cost more than initial estimates, but U.S. officials say money spent training Iraqi security forces has started to show results and has helped protect American investments.
Although some results, such as oil production, have fallen short of early estimates, other projects, such as sewage treatment, have exceeded initial goals, according to U.S. officials, outside experts and the U.S. government watchdog for Iraq reconstruction.
"There has been some significant progress, but there's a long way to go before Iraq can really be a stable, secure country that's able to provide for its people's basic needs," said Rusty Barber, head of the Iraq program at the federally funded United States Institute of Peace.
TROOP DEATHS: Casualties in Afghanistan, Iraq and beyond
Overall, the United States has spent $44.6 billion in taxpayer funds on rebuilding Iraq, about half of it to train, equip and support Iraq's military and police forces.
Reconstruction projects were slowed by the explosion of civil strife in Iraq in the early post-invasion years and by problems of mismanagement and poor coordination among U.S. agencies, according to Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction Stuart Bowen. He estimates that the U.S. wasted about $4 billion.
"The security problem made gearing up projects virtually impossible for several years in Iraq," Bowen said, "but the program continued to spend money, and thus wasted money."
Security payoff
The $21.3 billion spent on Iraqi security forces "has begun to pay off significantly this year," Bowen said. Attacks by insurgents on Iraqi and U.S. targets are down 85% from two years ago, Bowen said, and the Iraqi forces now number more than 660,000.
"We have built an Iraqi security force which is capable of maintaining internal security in Iraq," said Don Cooke, head of the State Department's Iraq assistance office. "And four or five or six years ago, there were people who were saying it was going to take decades."
Examples of U.S.-funded projects:
• Health clinics. The United States had planned to build 150 clinics by 2005 at a cost of $88.5 million. Construction took four years longer and cost nearly four times more to complete 133 of the planned clinics.
• Prison. The United States spent $40 million to build a prison for 3,600 inmates north of Baghdad. But the U.S. canceled the project in 2007 because of security problems and poor construction, and the half-built prison probably never will be finished, Bowen said.
• Electricity. Iraq's capacity to generate electricity rose to 6,000 megawatts last year, five years later than U.S. officials had predicted in 2004. The United States has spent $4.9 billion on electricity projects.
'Lessons learned'
"A lot of our disappointments came early on in the reconstruction business," said Col. Dionysios "Dan" Anninos, the head of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers office in Iraq. "In the last two or three years, we've learned from these setbacks and put systems in place to correct them."
At first, U.S. officials decided on reconstruction projects without consulting Iraqis, said Charles Ries, a reconstruction official at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad from 2007 to 2009. One result, Ries said, was that the United States built high-tech facilities that Iraqis will have trouble maintaining.
"We did not work with Iraqis in terms of finding out what they wanted to do and get their buy-in on the things we were building," said Ries, now a senior fellow at RAND Corp., a think tank based in Santa Monica, Calif.
The steps taken to avoid such mistakes, Anninos said, include hiring Iraqi companies and meeting frequently with Iraqi leaders.
"We work to make sure whatever project we have is what the Iraqis need," Anninos said. "That's probably one of the lessons learned, that we probably could have done better early on."
Another problem was "a complete lack of coordination" between the military and U.S. civilian agencies, Barber said.
"One of the greatest lessons we are in the process of learning in Iraq is that there have to be clear lines of authority, responsibility and action between the civil and military components," he said.
Finishing the job
The State Department created an office in 2004 to organize the U.S. reconstruction efforts. That office oversees the Civilian Response Corps, a group of experts in eight government agencies. The corps has 95 full-time members and 620 on "standby."
"There's no question that the lack of coordination was a problem in the first years in Iraq and Afghanistan," said John Herbst, the head of that office. "We were created to fix that."
About half of the more than $6 billion in U.S. funds remaining have been allocated. The majority is set for further support of the Iraqi security forces. Most of the rest will be used for training Iraqis, Barber said.
"We're getting out of the bricks-and-mortar business and getting into the consultancy business," Barber said. "We're shifting from doing things for them to letting them take responsibility, even if they eventually struggle or even fall down on occasion."
...........Goals and results.............
Health care-
Goal: Build 150 clinics for $88.5 million by 2005
Result: Built 133 clinics for $345 million by 2009
Security-
Goal: 385K Iraqi security forces by the end of '07
Result: 388K Iraqi security forces by the end of '07 for a cost of $8.1 billion
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Drinking Water-
Goal: Add capacity to provide an additional 1.1 million cubic meters per day, serving 5.2M people; not cost estimate given
Result: Added capacity to treat 1 million cubic meters per day by Oct. 2009, serving more than 5M people; cost $1.6 billion
Sewer-
Goal: Add capacity to treat 48,000 cubic meters per day, serving 228K people; no cost estimate given
Result: Added capacity to treat 1.2 million cubic meters per day, serving 5.3M people; cost $254 million
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Electricity-
Goal: Increase supply to 6,000 megawatts by 2004; no cost estimate given
Result: Supply increased to 6,000 megawatts in 2009; cost $4.9 billion
Oil industry-
Goal: 3M barrels per day production; 2.2M barrels per day exported; no cost estimate given
Result: In the last quarter of 2009, 2.4M barrels were produced per day and 1.9M barrels were exported per day; cost $1.9 billion
U.S. SPENDING FOR IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION
Yr ..Spent..Cumulative total
2003 $1.8 $1.8
2004 $5 $6.8
2005 $9.3 $16.1
2006 $8.8 $24.9
2007 $7 $32
2008 $5.8 $37.8
2009 $6.8 $44.6
*Measured in billions
Source: Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction
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Digest this info and think about what you, as an American, want to see your taxpayers dollars spent on...projects that help Americans?...or projects that help foreigners?
Arch...you ever work on a railroad?
...you ever engineer a railroad construction project?
...maybe you can tell us what qualifies you to judge the cost of the proposed construction of this project?
This country will continue to spend taxpayer dollars on infrastructure construction, both new and upgrading. It is money well spent as long as there is oversight and if a particular project is needed.
For years, we have heard how America's infrastructure needs fixing and upgrading...but those in control of America's purse strings had other priorities for spending the American taxpayer dollars. Any questioning of spending in Iraq was met with...Don't you support the troops?
...spending for Iraq RE-construction was always tied to Iraq War military spending.
Looking at Washington DC today, no way is the TeaPub Party going to agree to spending taxpayer dollars on projects that benefit our own country, our own businesses, our own citizens and our own workers.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Just clicking MAC
It is also kid of simple to say it is just 1minute and 40 seconds off a commute time, there is a lot more to that. We are not talking one train chugging along a track to Hoboken, this is hundreds,if not thousands of trains a year with thousands,if not hundreds of thousands,if not millions of passengers a year. Trains that re jammed full as it is, and prone to delays because of breakdowns. This will be a part in creating a faster,more efficient transportation system in an area that is our nations economic backbone.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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2nd String
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2nd String
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AMTRAK AWARDED $450 MILLION TO UPGRADE NEW YORK - WASHINGTON HIGH-SPEED RAIL SERVICE
.by Amtrak on Monday, May 9, 2011 at 11:45am.Supports Gateway Project, increases speeds, improves reliability
WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of Transportation awarded Amtrak $450 million in funding to upgrade its rail infrastructure to support more frequent and faster high-speed rail service, and to improve reliability of current service between New York and Washington.
“With this investment by the Obama administration, the Amtrak vision for high-speed rail in the Northeast is now departing the station and heading down the tracks to help take America to the next generation of passenger service,” said Amtrak President and CEO Joe Boardman.
The funding will go toward improvements that are an important first step in support of the Amtrak Gateway Project, which will construct new tunnels to access an expanded New York Penn Station, enhance regional economic development and job creation, and lay the foundation for the future launch of 220 mph next-generation high-speed service.
Specifically, the $450 million awarded to Amtrak is for a project to upgrade electrical power, signal systems, track and overhead catenary wires between Morrisville, Pa., and New Brunswick, N.J. – one of the busiest segments of the Northeast Corridor (NEC) and where the densest concentration of Acela Express high-speed rail operations occurs. It also will reconfigure track switches at the western entrance to New York Penn Station to mitigate congestion issues. The anticipated completion date is in September 2017.
As a result, Amtrak top speeds will increase from 135 mph to 160 mph along a 24-mile section of track. Combined with new equipment acquisition currently in the planning stages, the project supports plans to add six more Acela Express high-speed roundtrips between New York and Washington by 2018 and a total of 15 additional roundtrips by 2022 — doubling high-speed service from current levels.
In addition to the $450 million received by Amtrak, several states were awarded a total of $345 million for other NEC-specific projects each of which are vital for the reliability and capacity of the current NEC network. Amtrak worked closely with its state partners along the NEC during the application process to coordinate projects in order to maximize the expected regional improvements.
Amtrak also is encouraged that the U.S. Department of Transportation is awarding funding to states for other projects in the Northeast, the Midwest and in California that will benefit current Amtrak services and are critical building blocks for expanded and higher speed intercity passenger rail service across the nation.
Seems to me there is a little more to it than just shaving 2 minutes off travel time. I hate it when reporters don't tell the whole story.
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Legend
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OP
Legend
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Quote:
Seems to me there is a little more to it than just shaving 2 minutes off travel time. I hate it when reporters don't tell the whole story.
And the more I read about it - hear about it - I feel a little better about it.
I still don't quite get the "Well, Florida didn't want the money, so we have to spend it somewhere ..." mentality of the gov't. though.
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Hall of Famer
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I'm still waiting for my bullet train here. 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Legend
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Legend
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I don't agree with rebuilding Iraq. Sure maybe we can assist them, but they have plenty of oil to produce profits for their own rebuilding, and never understood going to war, only to build them back up again.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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I'm going to play devils advocate here for a second... as I understand it, the way the tracks are now there are frequent delays and other problems associated with this route, they are fixing the electrical system, upgrading bridges and crossings, etc.
This reminds me of the recently completed Springfield Interchange problem in northern Virgina. They spent upwards of a billion dollars renovating the entire interchange where 95 north/south met 295 from DC and the 495 beltway, it involved the construction and/or renovation of something like 116 bridges. Somebody took the route most commuters take into DC and figured the way the road was, compared to how it would look when done and calculated a 12 second savings in time... for a billion dollars. But basically all that person did was figure if you were on the old road at top speed compared with being on the new road at top speed... what he failed to consider was that during rush hour, you were on the old road at 5 mph the whole way and with the new bridges, ramps, etc you would be able to go much faster than that. And that merging and moving from one road the other would be much safer, thereby saving lives and saving accidents which frequently caused you to go exactly zero miles per hour for a long period of time.
Sounds like what this guy did, he took the old rail at the old top speed and the new rail at the new top speed and did a simple math problem. Doesn't sound at all like he figured the potential for fewer delay problems, fewer electrical issues, potential growth, increased safety, etc.
Is it worth $450 million? I have no idea but to say that its sole purpose is to save 2 minutes seems very disingenuous to me. And to compare a complete rail renovation in northern NJ to a crosstie replacement in NW Ohio also seems pretty silly.
Not sure if anybody can even come close to understanding the accomodations that have to be made to keep these trains running during the renovation, maintaining vehicle traffic around the tracks, etc... it's a monumental task.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
And to compare a complete rail renovation in northern NJ to a crosstie replacement in NW Ohio also seems pretty silly.
And I'm sure you will understand that at the time I posted that - I wasn't aware that it was a "complete rail renovation" in NJ.
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