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In my humble opinion Clutts go the shaft .. 
Clutts kind of sucked, too. Looked lost on plays to the outside, running around blocking nobody as the ballcarrier was being brought down.
Marecic wasn't good in preseason, but neither was Clutts.
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In my humble opinion Clutts go the shaft ..
Clutts kind of sucked, too. Looked lost on plays to the outside, running around blocking nobody as the ballcarrier was being brought down.
Marecic wasn't good in preseason, but neither was Clutts.
You know what they say " One mans opinion " 
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Also on Sunday, the team signed the following six players to its practice squad. All six were waived by the Browns on Saturday: offensive linemen Dominic Alford and Jarrod Shaw, fullback Tyler Clutts, running back Quinn Porter, defensive lineman Brian Sanford and wide receiver Rod Windsor.
Still two spots open.
I'm happy to see Sanford and Clutts the most.
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Even if Clutts got the shaft, who cares.
He wasn't going to beat out a drafted player at a pretty much useless position.
If the new regime thought FB was a useful position, they would have kept Vickers.
They don't, and it isn't.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Cleveland Browns make roster moves, sign six to practice squad Published: Sunday, September 04, 2011, 4:45 PM Updated: Sunday, September 04, 2011, 5:35 PM By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND -- Here is the Browns release on their roster moves: The Cleveland Browns today were awarded the following players off waivers: quarterback Thaddeus Lewis (St. Louis), linebacker Quinton Spears (Miami) and defensive lineman Emmanuel Stephens (Atlanta). To make room on their roster for the three, the team waived defensive lineman Auston English and linebacker Benjamin Jacobs, and terminated the contract of defensive lineman Derreck Robinson. Also on Sunday, the team signed the following six players to its practice squad. All six were waived by the Browns on Saturday: offensive linemen Dominic Alford and Jarrod Shaw, fullback Tyler Clutts, running back Quinn Porter, defensive lineman Brian Sanford and wide receiver Rod Windsor. Lewis signed with the Rams as an undrafted college free agent in 2010. He was on the team's 53-man roster for the season-opener last year before spending the final 14 weeks on the practice squad. In preseason with St. Louis in 2010, Lewis completed 22 of 28 passes (78.6%) for 255 yards with two touchdowns, one interception and a rating of 113.6. This year he hit on 23 of 32 (71.9%) for 266 yards with no touchdowns or interceptions, and a rating of 96.6. Lewis was a four-year letterman at Duke (2006-09) where he started all four years and completed 877 of 1,510 passes for 10,065 yards with 67 touchdowns and 40 interceptions. He set school career records for passing yards and touchdowns. He also rushed for 621 yards and nine touchdowns. He had his best season as a senior when he connected on 274 of 449 passes for 3,330 yards with 20 touchdowns and eight interceptions. He was a second-team All-Atlantic Coast Conference selection that year and was a finalist for the Davey O'Brien Award. The 6-2, 200-pound Lewis attended Hialeah-Miami Lakes (Fla.) High School. He was born on November 19, 1987. Spears signed with the Dolphins as an undrafted college free agent this year. He registered a sack with the team in the preseason. The 6-4, 234-pounder began his collegiate career at Prairie View A&M as a walk-on wide receiver before being converted to defensive end. As a senior, he was a first-team All-SWAC selection when he tallied 70 tackles, nine stops for loss, 4.5 sacks, a forced fumble and three blocked kicks. He was a second-team all-conference choice as a junior when he posted 39 tackles, 10.5 stops for loss and five sacks. Born on May 11, 1988, he attended Montgomery (Texas) High School. Stephens signed with Atlanta as an undrafted college free agent in 2010 and spent all of his rookie season on the Falcons' practice squad. The 6-3, 255-pounder was a two-year letterman at the University of Mississippi (2008-09) after transferring from Blinn Community College. In two years at Ole Miss, Stephens recorded 40 tackles, 13 stops for loss and 6.5 sacks, including a team-high 5.5 as a senior. He added two forced fumbles in his career. Born on February 17, 1987, Stephens is a native of Houston, Texas where he attended Waltrip High School. web page
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If the new regime thought FB was a useful position, they would have kept Vickers.
They don't, and it isn't.
Yet they have one on the roster, one on the PS and a TE that can play FB..
Yup,, looks to me as if they don't feel it's needed... 
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Even if Clutts got the shaft, who cares.
He wasn't going to beat out a drafted player at a pretty much useless position.
If the new regime thought FB was a useful position, they would have kept Vickers.
They don't, and it isn't.
That's the most illogical statement I've ever read (exaggeration)
We got rid of a good FB, and replaced it with a rookie FB, which means we don't care about FB...
Your talking in circles. If we didn't care about FB, we wouldn't have one at all...
And the whole "FB is useless" thing, I really hope that's some sort of message board gimmick, because that's ludacris...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If the new regime thought FB was a useful position, they would have kept Vickers.
They don't, and it isn't.
Yet they have one on the roster, one on the PS and a TE that can play FB..
Yup,, looks to me as if they don't feel it's needed...
at this point, I think in Hillis's mind... he can only rely on the front 5 to block for him, and anything Marecic does is just extra...
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This has much to do with me keeping an eye on how Heckert works !.. He was put on the PS , ..
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It's not a gimmick. It's just the way it is.
We released a pro-bowl fullback.
If it was such a important position, my attitude is we wouldn't have released Vickers....but......we did....explain that???
Either you think we have dunces running the show or you overvalue the position and don't really know what you are talking about.
I think I know which it is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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It's not a gimmick. It's just the way it is.
We released a pro-bowl fullback.
If it was such a important position, my attitude is we wouldn't have released Vickers....but......we did....explain that???
Either you think we have dunces running the show or you overvalue the position and don't really know what you are talking about.
I think I know which it is.
just don't understand why they spent a 4th rounder on this guy.. that shows that they value the position a little.
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So it has nothing to do with the TYPE of Fullback right? and OFFENSE we're running?
Vickers is a true RUN BLOCKING FB...
We are switching to a more PASSING Offense...
Yeah, people never change personell when they change scheme... Crazy me...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
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If the new regime thought FB was a useful position, they would have kept Vickers.
They don't, and it isn't.
Yet they have one on the roster, one on the PS and a TE that can play FB..
Yup,, looks to me as if they don't feel it's needed...
Where'as I don't I agree with peens thesaurus ... I do agree that the position will have differences to what we are used to from the FB position.
And your correct Heckert did remember to CYA 
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That and if the position was so useless and unneeded and unwanted,, why the hell did they spend a 4th round pick on one..
LOL Peen has an opinion, I just think he's wrong.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Vickers is a true RUN BLOCKING FB...
yes.. b/c he is good at it.. but he can also run and catch.. he did it all at Colorado, and then got two head coaches that like to pound the ball, so he got put in a box of just being a run blocker..
no point in debating though.. Marecic is on the team, and hopefully Shurmur can't put him in a position to do well.
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LOL Peen has an opinion, I just think he's wrong.
I'm ok with peopel having opinions, but when people say things like.
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Either you think we have dunces running the show or you overvalue the position and don't really know what you are talking about.
I think I know which it is.
That's going beyond having an opinion about something.
Apparently if you disagree with Peen, then you don't know what your talking about... It's ridiculous.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
If it was such a important position, my attitude is we wouldn't have released Vickers....but......we did....explain that???
We released Vickers? News to me.
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Quote:
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If it was such a important position, my attitude is we wouldn't have released Vickers....but......we did....explain that???
We released Vickers? News to me.
Released, let him sign with another team....Is there a big difference?
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Quote:
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If it was such a important position, my attitude is we wouldn't have released Vickers....but......we did....explain that???
We released Vickers? News to me.
Released, let him sign with another team....Is there a big difference?
Thanks...there isn't, but if people can't pick at my point they pick at my wording.
Shrug
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If it was such a important position, my attitude is we wouldn't have released Vickers....but......we did....explain that???
We released Vickers? News to me.
Released, let him sign with another team....Is there a big difference?
Sure there's a difference. Players, aside from roster bottom-dwellers, are released when they get old, their skills diminish or when their paychecks exceed their value to the team. None of those was anywhere close to being applicable to Vickers, considering he made next to nothing, signed with another team for next to nothing, and is in the discussion with LaRon McClain and Vonta Leach for the best fullback in the game. There was plenty of speculation that Marecic was drafted because the FO wanted a fullback who could run the ball or catch out of the backfield, but Tom Heckert sort of shot that theory down with his press conference yesterday. I'm all for what our FO is doing, but considering that we had a better, more experienced player already on the team at the time we drafted Marecic, that 4th-rounder could've been much better spent elsewhere, and I think they let their arrogance get the best of them there.
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I wish that we would have kept Vickers and drafted an OLB ..... but what do I know? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I liked Vickers, but he was a run-blocking FB in a different offensive scheme. If I understand the WCO, a FB's primary roles are blitz pickup and catching the ball out of the backfield. Vickers could do blitz pickup but wasn't that effective catching the ball. I recall a play last year where we were pinned down near the opponents goal line, and Vickers dropped a 3rd down pass in the flat with about 50 yards of open field in front of him.
I do think the FB role is different in the WCO than in Daboll and Mangini's so-called offense, and that the Browns' brass didn't think Vickers was a good match. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean Owen Marecic is the second coming of Tom Rathman or William Henderson either, it just means the Browns didn't think Vickers was ever going to be that type of FB.
I'm wondering if they don't envision Hillis as the eventual FB in this offense, with Hardesty and Smith as the RB rotation.
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I miss Vickers; this kid isn't him as replacement. So must be some other skills he has for a 4th on him. Must think he can catch and run better perhaps, and blocks well enough perhaps. Something in the new O scheme had to drive the decisions. A) I have yet to see it pan gold, the newbie hasn't impressed me yet, but I shall wait and watch. B) I miss Vickers. Whether we overvalue or undervalue FB position is almost impossible at this point. Maybe real game offense will clarify it. I still miss Vickers.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Marecic had 4 catches for 4 yards, at least 3 drops that I can think of, and 1 run for 6 yards. He also looked like crap blocking in the running game on the few occasions he was in when they actually ran the ball. He looked slow when he was on the field. In fact, he looked like the slowest player on the field when he was on the field.
I don't recall seeing him show up at all on special teams. He looked to be out of it mentally. The screen pass that he dropped was inexcusable. He's supposed to be a smart guy, and experienced on both sides of the ball, and he drops a lateral screen pass, and does an "aw shucks" and walks away from it while the sideline is going nuts for him to get on the damn ball. That's elementary stuff right there ... and it is a huge concern.
I said that I didn't expect Vickers back because he didn't look like a WCO FB to me, Given that he also came out and publicly thanked Mangini for making him a better player, and it was obvious that he wouldn't be a member of the Cleveland Browns for long. That's not the thing that worries me. What worries me is that Marecic hasn't got the basics down. Catch the ball, block, get on the ball if it is anywhere close to being a lateral. These are really basic things, and I see mistakes on the basics. That scares the heck out of me .... when a guy in a complex offense like the WCO doesn't have the simple stuff down yet. He looks slow on the field, and worse yet, he almost looks disinterested.
I hope that the kid turns into a Pro Bowl FB .... with 30 catches per year ... devastating blocks ...... and the ability to get the toughest of tough yards when needed. What I have seen so far makes me wonder if this kid is capable of anything close to that though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm kinda dumbfounded with Marecic. I saw the missed "lateral" in the first game, I don't think you can pin that on him, it was a bad throw that he wasn't expecting. As far as him not jumping on the ball, it wasn't ruled a lateral, so it doesn't matter. From his vantage point, maybe it was clear to him the it was a forward pass. We don't know for sure, and beating it to death is a waste of time. It was not a fumble on a lateral.
Now I did see him throw some decent blocks in some highlights, but to listen to the Vickers crowd on these boards, you would think he never made a block.
I also saw a screen pass caught by him and he took it up field and trucked a DB just like Hillis does.
I also saw his other dropped screen, so it is not like I've seen anything but good from him. The problem I have is people totally bashing the kid. He is a rookie with noexperience except a few weeks of camp. Vickers was not all that the first couple years. I remember him being touted as a short yardage guy, then in his rookie season never showing that part of his game.
Vickers was a great blocker for sure, but IMO he was no good at running the ball. I can't recall any run of his that mattered or made a difference. Marecic dropped a couple screens in his first preseason, and is considered a bust, while Vickers had dropped more than one during his time here and is considered a god.
Vickers was a great lead blocker, those saying he was the best in the league said the same thing about Terelle Smith. Crediting Hillis' success on Vickers is a stretch. Sure he took out the first guy, but Peyton gained way more yards after that on his own.
Marecic could very well have been a waste of a pick, I do not know. But IMO neither does anyone else. Vickers was just a guy for couple years, maybe Marecic is the same. Vickers had how many offseasons to get to his level? Maybe Marecic deserves to get at least one.
It kills me that this guy is pummeled for dropping a bad throw, but Smith is heralded for a long run after fumbling a couple times in one game. A little double standard if you ask me.
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That play was ruled a fumble on a lateral. His stat line for the game was 1 carry for 0 yards, 1 fumble. And if you saw him catch a screen pass, then you saw his entire preseason receiving production: 1 reception for 6 yards.
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My bad, it was a fumble, okay, but it was not a turnover so no loss no foul.
I have to wonder though, what was Vickers preseaon production numbers? Anybody know? How about Vickers recieving numbers from last year in 16 games?
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I'm wondering if they don't envision Hillis as the eventual FB in this offense, with Hardesty and Smith as the RB rotation.
We will see some of that, but the beauty of that is that we can used them in the traditional FB/HB sets and also two HB sets.
Hillis will be lined up at TB, FB and HB and we won't have to make substitutions, with those player groups and that will greatly benefit our hurry up or no huddle offense.
Marecic is a rookie and he probably will see less then 40% of the snaps at FB this year. He still has room to grow into his role.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 09/05/11 12:50 PM.
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Preseason: 1 catch for 22 yards
Last season: 4 for 15
Career: 41 for 271
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Lawrence Vickers
#47 RB
Houston Texans | Official Team Site
Height: 6-0 Weight: 250 Age: 28
Born: 5/8/1983 Beaumont , TX
College: Colorado
Experience: 6th season
High School: Forest Brook HS [Houston, TX]
CAR
5
YDS
11
AVG
2.2
TDS
0
Profile Career Stats Game Logs Game Splits Situational Stats
RECENT GAMESMORE
WK OPP RESULT Rushing Receiving Fumbles
Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2 NO W 27-14 -- -- -- -- -- 0 0 -- -- 0 -- --
3 @SF W 30-7 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
4 @MIN L 0-28 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
CAREER STATSMORE
Season Team Rushing Receiving Fumbles
G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2010 Cleveland Browns 16 4 5 11 2.2 3 0 4 15 3.8 10 0 -- --
2009 Cleveland Browns 16 9 -- -- -- -- -- 8 27 3.4 12 1 1 0
2008 Cleveland Browns 12 8 10 31 3.1 10 0 10 78 7.8 21 0 -- --
2007 Cleveland Browns 16 14 15 43 2.9 7 0 13 91
This preseason he had 5 carries for 11 yards, and no recieving yards
According to this, from the NFL.com site,last year he had a whopping 5 carries for 11 yards, 4 catches for 15 yards. No TDs ever.
So in one preseason catch, Marecic gained almost than half of what Vickers did all season.
Vickers was a blocker...period. His production as a receiver or a runner has never been anything.
Last edited by eryze19akaBT58; 09/05/11 01:02 PM.
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This is a lot of talk about a back-up FullBack....
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You're looking at the wrong numbers.
The bottom line is that we let a good player walk for an unproven one who, given his position, can't offer much more tha the guy we already had. Even if Marecic's ceiling is the same as Vickers', it was a waste of a pick, because the pick could've been used to fill a spot of actual need.
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I fixed it I think. Still as a blocker great, as a receiver or ball carrier...nada.
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can't offer much more than the guy we already had.
BS, there is no way you could know what he can offer in the future. Look I liked Vickers, but he was a blocker and that was it. Nobody can say what Marecic will do, time will tell. But to claim that he will never be better than Vickers is just speculation, and a lot of man love for Vickers.
The stats are there, read them for yourself, besides blocking he did nothing.
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Agreed.
Vickers wasn't a good fit for the WCO and whether Marecic pans out.... only time will tell.
BTW that 3rd-down screen pass he dropped last year with plenty of room to run was against NO.
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You cut out the qualifying part of that statement. I said "given his position". He's a fullback. He's going to block. He's not going to be an integral part of the passing game, nor is he going to be running the ball with any regularity. Is his blocking going to be so significantly better than the guy we already had that it was worth burning a mid-round draft pick on a talent-starved team? Doubtful.
Man love? Not really. Recognizing that fullback was not a position of need and drafting one was silly? Sure. I've seen the stats. I've also seen a guy that absolutely loves that his job is to go out there every Sunday and knock 260-lb linebackers on their asses. I've seen a guy that was with the team for five years and blocked for 1000-yard rushers in three of those five years. In short, a guy who was a more than capable fullback. You're willing to look at the stat line for a position where stats aren't particularly relevant and conclude that he was no good at anything other than blocking. That's fine. I disagree, but that's your opinion.
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Vickers was a good blocker but is no way a WCO FB... and for the money he wanted our organiation decided to go with a cheaper option that has more upside on catching the ball out of the back field... kid just looks like a deer in the headlights right now but it's just pre-season. Loved what he did in college so we'll see how he pans out... I'm not sold on him but I'm not giving up on him either
With that said Vickers has done squat in the preseason as well with the texans. If the texans stick to what they've done so far it'll be surprising if Vickers sees much on the field in an offense that does a lot of I packages and doesn't really expect their FB to catch much. I'm hoping Vickers can get on the field a bit more for them, but the Texans prefer their coverted TE right now at FB.
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#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
You brought up Marecic's production, I was just comparing that.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
I saw what you saw Ytown and it baffles me why Marecic made the team based on his performance in the Preseason.
Only thing I can think of is either Heckert doesn't like cutting his draft picks (which I doubt) or they saw something in camp that makes them believe he'll be good... (which I suspect is the case)
But I really can't tell which is which.
I just don't see any other options.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Recent roster moves; Quote:
Lewis signed with the Rams as an undrafted college free agent in 2010. He was on the team's 53-man roster for the season-opener last year before spending the final 14 weeks on the practice squad. In preseason with St. Louis in 2010, Lewis completed 22 of 28 passes (78.6%) for 255 yards with two touchdowns, one interception and a rating of 113.6. This year he hit on 23 of 32 (71.9%) for 266 yards with no touchdowns or interceptions, and a rating of 96.6. Lewis was a four-year letterman at Duke (2006-09) where he started all four years and completed 877 of 1,510 passes for 10,065 yards with 67 touchdowns and 40 interceptions. He set school career records for passing yards and touchdowns. He also rushed for 621 yards and nine touchdowns. He had his best season as a senior when he connected on 274 of 449 passes for 3,330 yards with 20 touchdowns and eight interceptions. He was a second-team All-Atlantic Coast Conference selection that year and was a finalist for the Davey O'Brien Award. The 6-0(4), 200-pound Lewis attended Hialeah-Miami Lakes (Fla.) High School. He was born on November 19, 1987.
Are we trying to start a new trend in the league with QB's all under 6'2"?
Just an observation, that I can't ever recall another teams group of QB's all being under the normal height.
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