Pass it now, and I'll tell you how to pay for it in 2 weeks? Really?
Spend, spend, and spend some more and we'll add it to the tab. Increase taxes and that'll help create jobs.
Also, Social Security and Medicare are going broke ... so let's make the SS tax cut permanent? These programs are sliding towards bankruptcy, so let's speed it up by making sure that less tax dollars go into the coffers ...... permanently?
Also ..... a tax code where everyone pays their fair share? How much do most poor to middle class families pay in federal income taxes each year? Nothing? They get money back that they never paid in?
Unfortunately, I was somehow hoping that this would be something new and different .... and something that had a chance to work. Not a chance. It's more of the same stuff that hasn't worked despite rhetoric to the contrary over the past (almost) 3 years.
Obama Urges Congress to Pass $450 Billion Jobs Plan 'Right Away' Published September 08, 2011 | FoxNews.com
Seeking to boost a slumping economy along with his hopes for re-election, President Obama on Thursday night implored Congress to pass a $450 billion jobs plan that he says will give an array of tax cuts to small businesses that hire while reforming the corporate tax code and investing in infrastructure projects.
In a highly-anticipated speech to a joint session of Congress, Obama repeatedly called on lawmakers to pass his plan "right away," saying "there should be nothing controversial" about the American Jobs Act. Obama said all the proposals are paid for with spending cuts although he won't detail them until next week.
“Everything in here is the kind of proposal that’s been supported by both Democrats and Republicans – including many who sit here tonight," he said. “The purpose of the American Jobs Act is simple: to put more people back to work and more money in the pockets of those who are working.”
Obama also called on Congress to "stop the political circus and actually do something to help the economy."
The biggest element in Obama's plan calls for increasing and extending a payroll tax cut for workers that goes to Social Security, while providing the tax cut to employers, too. For workers, the tax that has been cut from 6.2 percent to 4.2 percent for this year would fall to 3.1 percent under Obama's plan -- a $175 billion cost. The tax will go back up to 6.2 percent without congressional action by the end of the year.
The president's plan would also spend $25 billion on school infrastructure to modernize at least 35,000 public schools, including spending on computer labs and on emergency repairs. He would spend an additional $35 billion to prevent layoffs of up to 280,000 teachers and support the hiring of thousands more.
Senior administration officials wouldn't say how many job the plan would create but noted that it could have an immediate impact.
The idea is to have an effect "within the year," one official said.
Obama's plan strikes the "right balance" and contains the "right mix" of elements to get people back working again, an official said. But the officials added there's no "magic here."
Republicans didn't rule out support for Obama's plan but noted that they had their own proposals too.
"The proposals the president outlined tonight merit consideration," House Speaker John Boehner said in a statement. "We hope he gives serious consideration to our ideas as well. It's my hope that we can work together to end the uncertainty facing families and small businesses, and create a better environment for long-term economic growth and private-sector job creation."
Obama wanted to convey a deep sense of urgency about the economy in his speech and try to back Republicans into a corner, said top Democrats who spoke to the president about his speech.
But top Republicans wonder why it took nearly three years to convey this urgency. They suspect the timing has more to do with the president now trying to save his own job.
"The president's so-called jobs plan is to try those very same policies again and then accuse anyone who doesn't support them this time around of being political or overtly partisan, of not doing what's needed in this moment of crisis," said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell. "This isn't a jobs plan. It's a re-election plan."
A key audience is the all-important independent voters who helped elected the president in 2008 but have been fleeing. One year ago, 40 percent of independents approved of his job performance. Now it's down to 31 percent, according to the latest Fox News poll.
The president is gambling that since Congress has an approval rating of only 10 percent, Republicans will feel election pressure to work with him. But passage of the plan may rest on how the president plans to pay for it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Same ol same ol. Pass the bill and Ill let you know later how we'll pay for it.
Empty.
"We need to spend $400 billion today. Next week I'll show you the cuts we will make to pay for it."
........Next week comes........
We will cut spending by $400 billion dollars, starting today. A $1 dollar cut today, to be followed by an additional $10 cut next year. And by 2042, this one time Jobs bill will be paid for through cuts. Just like the 900 billion stimulus bill will be paid for by cuts - cuts someone else will make at a later date."
Meanwhile, our deficit and debt increase daily. So much for "cuts".
I taped it. I listened to a little of it on the radio on the way home and I heard a lot of his "big picture" plan and it sounded like some decent ideas. Of course the devil will be in the details of how those big picture plans get implemented and paid for.
There are some decent ideas .....but I am strongly against the Social Security tax cut and making it permanent. If you take 2% on the employer and employee side, then you take 4% out of the fund that will already struggle to pay benefits after the next decade or so.
Sure, that's 10 or 20 years down the road ...... but that's why we get into trouble. The government pushes problems off into the future, and then we get to a situation like we find ourselves in today.
I would be all for an employer tax credit that gives a credit for new hires who are additional employees. It has to be paid for though. I would end the SS Tax cut. That's just asking for trouble. We should leave SS/Medicare funding alone.
Further, when I say "Paid for", that's exactly what I mean. There should be cuts that impact this coming year, not the next 15 years that are completely unenforceable. I am sick and tired of false math and phony cuts that will never happen. Cuts needs to start immediately or they never will.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I would be all for an employer tax credit that gives a credit for new hires who are additional employees.
How does this help the small, struggling businesses that are barely making it with a current staff of four working six hours each per week? Where the hell is *my* help? Maybe I could cut them back to three hours and hire four more?
Quote: There are some decent ideas .....but I am strongly against the Social Security tax cut and making it permanent. If you take 2% on the employer and employee side, then you take 4% out of the fund that will already struggle to pay benefits after the next decade or so.
The country is screwed no matter how you slice it. I'm self employed. I'll take that 4% cut. Let's face it, social security isn't going to be there for me in another 23 to 25 years. I look at life as "It's me and my wife against the world. WE have to provide for ourselves, cause no one else will. All the gov't. wants from us is our money."
Quote:
Sure, that's 10 or 20 years down the road ...... but that's why we get into trouble. The government pushes problems off into the future, and then we get to a situation like we find ourselves in today.
You mean like "we need to spend 400 billion today, and next week I'll show you how we're paying for it with cuts."? Cuts that come over a 10 or 20 year time frame - yet in reality NEVER come to fruition?
Quote:
I would be all for an employer tax credit that gives a credit for new hires who are additional employees. It has to be paid for though. I would end the SS Tax cut. That's just asking for trouble. We should leave SS/Medicare funding alone.
I disagree. SS/medicare is how much of our budget? Sorry folks. It sucks, but NOTHING is off the board as far as cuts.
Without major expenditure DECREASES, we'll never get out of the hole we're in. Ever.
Retirees gripe about being on a fixed income. What the hell am I on? A free ride?
Problem is, there isn't a politician around with balls big enough to do anything about the problem. And the problem is spending.
Next problem is all politicians think they can fix any problem by spending more money.
Think it's bad now for you or me? For the people living on ss? Ever hear of a thing called inflation? It's a killer. And what we're doing now is promoting inflation. Gov't. knows it - but they take that as the lesser of 2 evils - so they do it. Print and spend, print and spend. And don't let the "official" inflation numbers fool you. They have, and will continue to, change the way inflation is figured so as to make it not look as bad. But when you go to the store today and pay $3 for a loaf of bread, but next year that loaf of bread is $5, it won't matter what the "official" inflation number says - what will matter is you can't afford it.
Quote:
Further, when I say "Paid for", that's exactly what I mean. There should be cuts that impact this coming year, not the next 15 years that are completely unenforceable. I am sick and tired of false math and phony cuts that will never happen. Cuts needs to start immediately or they never will.
Agreed. But that goes back to what I said about politicians not having the balls to do it.
It's like the guy/girl/couple that is bankrupt - going to the bank for another loan and saying "give us this money now, and we promise that within 10 years we'll cut our spending."
It's a joke. Why more people can't see that is beyond me. Ignorance is the only thing I can think of that would defend that stand. Ignorance is bliss - until that ignorance sucks this whole country down the crapper.
People will never accept the end of Social Security. There may be modifications, and I expect that it will happen at some point in the future ...... but to end the program would throw about half the senior citizens in this country into poverty.
I really don't see a way to end the program. It will continue, because it will have to at this point. That will likely mean modifications to the tax system and so on ..... and hopefully a modification to the program itself that will allow people a piece of their own action as opposed to a government mandate.
I can see the taxable income levels increased, and probably a small tax increase in the future. If not, then we'll be borrowing from China to finance further debt. I don't see any way that Social Security will ever be allowed to end ..... so we need to find a solution to the funding issue.
Cutting the SS tax isn't the way to resolve a funding issue.
As far as small business creation and assistance, I don't know all of the answers. I do think that tax credits should be tailored towards job creation and sustaining jobs. I do think that there should be a system with tax assistance geared towards employers who add and sustain employment levels. It has to account for total hours paid, and increasing that number, along with increasing the number of employees.
I think that if the President wants to get ideas from the country, he should start by actually asking and listening to actual employers. Instead of listening to the head of GE, who is outsourcing jobs to China by the hundreds, he should listen to those actually employing Americans.
I have to say that the attitude of the speech left me rather disgusted as well. We had this weeks long run up to the speech ...... "We're going to give our solutions in a month or so when we return from vacation".
Tonight we hear "Pass my plan. Pass it now. Pass my plan. Pass it immediately." That's crap.
I also think that this plan is more or less what we had before. We need pro growth types of legislation. We need legislation that helps business grow, rather than getting in the way of business. We need a complete reversal of the direction we're on. I just don't see it with this President.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: The country is screwed no matter how you slice it. I'm self employed. I'll take that 4% cut. Let's face it, social security isn't going to be there for me in another 23 to 25 years. I look at life as "It's me and my wife against the world. WE have to provide for ourselves, cause no one else will. All the gov't. wants from us is our money."
+1 I'll take whatever I can from an SS cut as I know damn well I won't be seeing a dime from it when I retire. If I could invest the money I give for my self employment tax on my own I'd be able to turn it into a lot more than the check that I theoretically will be getting by the time I retire. A LOT MORE!
And you hit it with inflation. That is my biggest fear and one that is hardly mentioned by any news source. If we keep printing money it WILL happen; in fact, I don't see at this point how it won't happen.
As you said, someone needs to have the balls to step up and cut spending, big time.
If you live to be 100 you need to remember that what we are seeing now are the fruits of the Mistake that was allowing the presidential administration and both houses of Congress to be under Democrat control, for just 2 short years.
The republicans may not always be right, but the Democrats are always wrong.
I won't listen to one word this president says, life is too short.
"President said we need to put Party ahead of country".
Surely an honest slip of the tongue ....... or was it?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: People will never accept the end of Social Security. There may be modifications, and I expect that it will happen at some point in the future ...... but to end the program would throw about half the senior citizens in this country into poverty.
I does need to be modified. Personally, I'll make it a true security blanket. Basically people who have enough money, shouldn't be receiving it. Raise the retirement age while while we are at it.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
Quote: Basically people who have enough money, shouldn't be receiving it.
So, those who were frugal and lived without luxuries and impulse buys because they were wise enough to put something away for retirement.....shouldn't get back some of what they paid into the system for their entire working life?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
i would just like to note that, taking a back seat to the speech by Obama, the so-called "America Invents Act" passed the Senate 89-9. as with so many bills and PACs, this thing does the opposite of its name.
it changes the U.S. from a "first-to-invent" system to a "first inventor-to-file" system, effectively empowering those with bigger pocketbooks (and thus, lawyers) to out-legal independent and small business inventors for their innovations. "death to the entrepreneur...we have corporate profit margins to maintain!"
worse, the grace period for filing has been shortened, further handicapping small-time innovators.
and oh yeah, the 1 good thing that might have come from this bill, as an amendment, lost by a vote of 48-50. this was an amendment to keep US Patent & Trademark Office profits in-house. instead, Congress will continue to be granted power over the $, which can be spent wherever these politicians see fit. GREAT!...let's punish the only government agency that MAKES money by stealing their profits instead of allowing them to re-invest it in employees to speed the patent review process (one of the major problems that this bill is supposedly written to address).
frankly, i don't care much what the jobs speech had or didn't have...this piece of legislation hurts the U.S. economy more than the jobs that have gone and are never coming back (see PhilDawson's thread).
I will be 40 in October. There is no way in hell I retire anywhere in my 60's. I just don't have faith in myself that I will be able to put enough in my 401K and that the market/my investment skills will produce a number enabling me to retire till I die.
There has to be some sort of safety net to help if I and other folks live a long life. What about those that have been unemployed or underemployed or who work for a company that doesn't offer a 401K?
I look at the direction this country is taking. The desire to slash this overspend on that and borrow from China and fund things that don't need funded that I really fear for the future.
As for Obama's jobs program lets face it. The only job that's important to him is his. A payroll tax cut is not going to spur hiring if it's only for one year and there is no cost benefit for an employer to hire anyway if the market isn't there.
A couple of roads, some bridges are nice but they are not the game changer I feel we need. I don't have all the answers--maybe not even some of them--but I feel like my future is getting screwed away for rhetoric and party.
Quote: I taped it. I listened to a little of it on the radio on the way home and I heard a lot of his "big picture" plan and it sounded like some decent ideas. Of course the devil will be in the details of how those big picture plans get implemented and paid for.
I watched it last night and came away feeling pretty much the same.. good ideas, but details weren't really discussed. of course, that's really not the setting to get the details so I guess that's ok
What's really funny to me is that many of the ideas expressed by President Obama were first pushed by any number of republicans or at least thought well of by republicans but Obama says it,, and wow,, the backlash already on this thread..
I really believe that the goal of the republican party are to get Obama out of office, not the resurrection of America!
Of course, to be fair, it seems like all the Democrats want is to keep Obama in office and to hell with the resurrection of America! All they seem to want to do is pander to those that we support.
If our elected officials would just work FOR us instead of themselves, we might actually see the good in America.
Yeah, I know,, wishful thinking.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I really believe that the goal of the republican party are to get Obama out of office, not the resurrection of America!
Of course, to be fair, it seems like all the Democrats want is to keep Obama in office and to hell with the resurrection of America! All they seem to want to do is pander to those that we support.
If our elected officials would just work FOR us instead of themselves, we might actually see the good in America.
Their goal is to keep their jobs. That is what it has come to. To do so, the best thing to do is create two groups of people who constantly bicker at each other so the real problems are not thought about by the masses.
Once again, Obama shows that he and his administration just don't get it.
A social security payroll tax cut? Why are we reducing the money going into social security? If a republican came up with that "plan" it would be proclaimed as an attack on the senior citizens.
How about a cut in the unemployment tax rates - federal and state? How about Workers' Comp reform?
How about something that lasts beyond a year or two?
Businesses do not make long-term business decisions for growth and expansion based on a short-term change in how the government will take their money.
In short, businesses DO NOT think or react like politicians who have an unlimited checkbook.
How about really cutting the fear in the cost of employing folks by repealing Obamacare? How about stopping with the EPA having the ability to stop new business? How about less regulation in general? How about getting the hell out of the way?
We MUST raise the income tax...but we MUST cut the social security tax?
People who run businesses and employ people are going to give his "ideas" a big 'ole ho-hum...again.
Yet another example of "shoot first...ask questions later". What a debacle his presidency has been.
Infrastructure investment? You mean spending...not investment. Is this not the same as "shovel ready projects" which were the job-creators of the stimulus that did not work?
In real and necessary infrastructure building/rebuilding, there is no such thing as "shovel ready". Engineering drawings and studies do not occur until money is allocated to the project. Once the money is allocated, THEN the engineering and planning begins...and bids are accepted and reviewed.
We do not need new roads and bridges because we want to employ people...when we need new roads and bridges it's because we need new roads and bridges. Folks will then be employed as a result of that need. Do NOT operate on a premise that we need jobs so let's build new roads and bridges. Infrastructure work is NOT a sound basis for a jobs-creation-plan.
Cut real employer costs...like Obamacare, unemployment taxes, and workers' comp "insurance". Pull back the reigns on the EPA and regulations that stop growth. Make a REAL tax cut plan that has - AT LEAST - a 5 year horizon. Not one year...not two years...better yet...extend the Bush - and now Obama - tax cuts for 10 years.
Then shut the hell up about tax increases!
Then cut spending at EVERY government level by 5% a year for the next 5 years. Trust me...those governement depts will figure out how to better spend our money when they know they must cut the fat and the checkbook is no longer unlimited.
The best way the federal goverment can help create jobs is to focus on creating an environment that encourages growth and investment. Government intervention and regulation and continued rants about raising taxes and spending is pretty much the exact opposite of creating an environment that encourages growth and investment.
This isn't rocket science...but it appears to be to this president and his advisors.
Quote: A social security payroll tax cut? Why are we reducing the money going into social security? If a republican came up with that "plan" it would be proclaimed as an attack on the senior citizens.
That is 100% true.
Quote: How about something that lasts beyond a year or two?
Businesses do not make long-term business decisions for growth and expansion based on a short-term change in how the government will take their money.
Correct again, businesses operate with short and long term plans and goals... but I agree that nobody is going to look at a 2 year plan and think, "Wow, now I'm going to build a $50 million new factory."
The problem is that politicians only have one "time horizon" that they look at and that is between now and the next election. That is why we keep selling out the future for the present... so people can get re-elected on promises that they can fix the problems they created.
It is so frickin' easy for someone to say that they'll spend like crazy to buy votes and pay it back with drastic cuts that will take place after the election....if it's going to be paid for at all. This is as big a load of BS as his healthcare plan.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Barack Obama's promise Thursday that everything in his jobs plan will be paid for rests on highly iffy propositions.
It will only be paid for if a committee he can't control does his bidding, if Congress puts that into law and if leaders in the future - the ones who will feel the fiscal pinch of his proposals - don't roll it back.
Underscoring the gravity of the nation's high employment rate, Obama chose a joint session of Congress, normally reserved for a State of the Union speech, to lay out his proposals. But if the moment was extraordinary, the plan he presented was conventional Washington rhetoric in one respect: It employs sleight-of-hand accounting.
A look at some of Obama's claims and how they compare with the facts:
OBAMA: "Everything in this bill will be paid for. Everything."
THE FACTS: Obama did not spell out exactly how he would pay for the measures contained in his nearly $450 billion American Jobs Act but said he would send his proposed specifics in a week to the new congressional supercommittee charged with finding budget savings. White House aides suggested that new deficit spending in the near term to try to promote job creation would be paid for in the future - the "out years," in legislative jargon - but they did not specify what would be cut or what revenues they would use.
Essentially, the jobs plan is an IOU from a president and lawmakers who may not even be in office down the road when the bills come due. Today's Congress cannot bind a later one for future spending. A future Congress could simply reverse it.
Currently, roughly all federal taxes and other revenues are consumed in spending on various federal benefit programs, including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, veterans' benefits, food stamps, farm subsidies and other social-assistance programs and payments on the national debt. Pretty much everything else is done on credit with borrowed money.
So there is no guarantee that programs that clearly will increase annual deficits in the near term will be paid for in the long term.
---
OBAMA: "Everything in here is the kind of proposal that's been supported by both Democrats and Republicans, including many who sit here tonight."
THE FACTS: Obama's proposed cut in the Social Security payroll tax does seem likely to garner significant GOP support. But Obama proposes paying for the plan in part with tax increases that have already generated stiff Republican opposition.
For instance, Obama makes a pitch anew to end Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, which he has defined as couples earning over $250,000 a year or individuals over $200,000 a year. Republicans have adamantly blocked what they view as new taxes. As recently as last month, House Republicans refused to go along with any deal to raise the government's borrowing authority that included new revenues, or taxes.
---
OBAMA: "It will not add to the deficit."
THE FACTS: It's hard to see how the program would not raise the deficit over the next year or two because most of the envisioned spending cuts and tax increases are designed to come later rather than now, when they could jeopardize the fragile recovery. Deficits are calculated for individual years. The accumulation of years of deficit spending has produced a national debt headed toward $15 trillion. Perhaps Obama meant to say that, in the long run, his hoped-for programs would not further increase the national debt, not annual deficits.
---
OBAMA: "The American Jobs Act answers the urgent need to create jobs right away."
THE FACTS: Not all of the president's major proposals are likely to yield quick job growth if adopted. One is to set up a national infrastructure bank to raise private capital for roads, rail, bridges, airports and waterways. Even supporters of such a bank doubt it could have much impact on jobs in the next two years because it takes time to set up. The idea is likely to run into opposition from some Republicans who say such a bank would give the federal government too much power. They'd rather divide money among existing state infrastructure banks.
---
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: OBAMA: "Everything in this bill will be paid for. Everything."
THE FACTS: Obama did not spell out exactly how he would pay for the measures contained in his nearly $450 billion American Jobs Act but said he would send his proposed specifics in a week to the new congressional supercommittee charged with finding budget savings
ACTUAL FACT: It's a SPEECH.. This is where you outline the broad strokes.. Going into details here would have made the speech run 24 hours..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
FACT: It was a campaign speech disguised as something more. It was given before a joint session of Congress, yet laid out very few steps that haven't already been (ineffectively) tried in the last stimulus bill. It made nebulous claims, and gave absolutely no justification as to the hows and whys.
FURTHER FACT: The President says that the bill is paid for, yet we have heard this before. More likely is that he will rely upon shadowy math and unwritten and nebulous future cuts as his fiscal justification. There will be no present day cuts to pay for this bill. There will be cuts to future increases that no one will have to follow anyway.
FURTHER FACT or FICTION: The President always says that he has these plans, yet he never puts them in writing. An unwritten plan is fiction. It is dreamland. It is fantasy. It is not a plan. No one can look at and evaluate the President's so called plan. This is by design. People can rail against Congressional Republicans all they want ..... and in some cases it's deserved ..... but the Republicans have proposed at least 3 different debt plans, and 2 have passed the House. They are in writing, sitting in the Senate, where the Democrats refused to even bring them to the floor. (because they were afraid they might pass) What has the President proposed? By this, I mean and actual written proposal? I'll answer this: NOTHING. This man has to be the laziest President of all time. His budget was a joke .... when he bothered to actually submit one. It was such a haphazard and wasteful pile of crap that the Senate killed it 98-0. He hasn't submitted a single plan in writing. He hasn't submitted a single proof of his claims in writing. He says "Pass my plan" ..... just like he had to pass Obamacare ...... and we'll figure out how to pay for it ..... someday. Maybe.
This is no way to run a government. This man is the least professional President I have ever seen. (and I have lived through Carter, Ford, and Bush ..... 3 Presidents who have taken a great deal of bashing through the years)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Basically people who have enough money, shouldn't be receiving it.
So, those who were frugal and lived without luxuries and impulse buys because they were wise enough to put something away for retirement.....shouldn't get back some of what they paid into the system for their entire working life?
With the way things are going, that is exactly what will happen, except everyone will be in the same boat and they all will not be receiving any money back from what they put into the system.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
My problem with a campaign speech disguised as something else is that it need not take on the perceived importance of an address to a joint session of Congress.
This was a substance-less speech that could have been written by a 3 year old. "Say pass my plan" 15 times in half an hour .......
Also, I have a problem with "Pass my plan" when we have no clue what all is in the plan ... and what it will cost. Typically, in situations like this ..... the President will have a written presentation that goes along with the speech .... often times given to the media and hashed and rehashed before he even gives his speech ....... but nope ... not this guy. We're just gonna wing it. "Trust me, it's all paid for" *wink wink*
I watched a focus group last night .... and *full disclosure ... it was on Fox* ..... but it was made up 50/50 of voters who voted for McCain, and voters who voted for Obama last time around. It was was a tepid, uninspired, and almost angry response from the group as a whole ..... all of whom expected a real plan with real details. A couple of the Obama voters said that they thought the plan might work, but that he would never be able to get Republicans to go along with it. Not one person thought that it was a good plan, with a good chance of success, that the President could get through Congress. Not one. That says a lot about the President, his plans, and his leadership.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: My problem with a campaign speech disguised as something else is that it need not take on the perceived importance of an address to a joint session of Congress.
Also, I find it disturbing that he tried to schedule it at bad times. First he tried to schedule it at the same time of the Republican Debate. Then he tried to schedule it at the same time as the first NFL Game of the season. You would think as President, he'd know these things were going on.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
Factually Factual Fact: The man says it's paid for, says he'll show us the details next week..
Seriously? You believe that?
First of all, he doesn't have a plan - he threw out numbers in a campaign speech. Where is the plan? Where is this "piece of legislation" he was talking about? Does he, in fact, have a bill written that is ready to be voted on??????
No.
And honestly - he says it's paid for? With what? We don't have the money to pay the bills (without borrowing) right now. How do you add $447 billion in spending and say "it's paid for"?????
I'll tell you how - you spend the money now - and say you have a plan to save that much over the next 10 or 15 years - that's how. And then next year, we'll spend even more.
There is no plan. The $447,000,000,000.00 is a number he's tossing around, and it is not, and will not, be "paid" for.
Quote: A social security payroll tax cut? Why are we reducing the money going into social security? If a republican came up with that "plan" it would be proclaimed as an attack on the senior citizens.
Very true. However, isn't it refreshing to hear a politician actually go against the "company line" and try to find middle ground on making this work? He said they need drastic reform to Medicare too, which is dangerous ground for a Democrat but should be music to the ears of Republicans.
Will all of this work and be as rosy as he proclaimed last night? Even an eternal optimist like me thinks not. But is is good to see someone in Office who is willing to try to find some middle ground politically.
That way, he can tick off everyone
------------------------------ *In Baker we trust* -------------------------------
I disagree that it was a campaign speech ONLY. I think he outlined a plan that both republicans in the past and democrats in the past have shown interest in.
But again, it comes from Obama so it can't be a good idea.. At least that's the way I think lots of folks feel.
To each thier own I guess.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Oh, and just because Republicans have supported certain aspects doesn't make them right either.
Now I did hear a good, solid, money saving idea from a Democrat ...... and granted, it was in reference to paying for Stimulus 2 ..... but Medicare is not allowed to negotiate prescription prices like the VA does. The guy suggested that Medicare could save about $250 billion over 10 years by changing the law so they could negotiate prices. That seems like something that everyone could, and should get behind. It is sensible, and saves taxpayer money without a drop in service.
That's the kind of thinking we need. Not this "we'll find a way to pay for it someday" crap.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I disagree that it was a campaign speech ONLY. I think he outlined a plan that both republicans in the past and democrats in the past have shown interest in.
But again, it comes from Obama so it can't be a good idea.. At least that's the way I think lots of folks feel.
To each thier own I guess.
it can't be a good idea because they spend how many months trying to cut costs to pass a budget plan and now just a few weeks later, he proposes spending half a trillion dollars?
Is he serious? How much have we already spent, and has it done a damn thing to create jobs? No. The government can't "create" jobs in the private sector, no matter how much money they want to spend.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: That's the kind of thinking we need. Not this "we'll find a way to pay for it someday" crap.
That's your interpretation of what he said, but not ACTUALLY what he said.
Like I said, some folks have made up thier minds that anything that comes out of Obamas mouth is wrong... They'll find any reason to knock it.,.,
For instance.,, in this very thread, there are several that have said that Obama outlined a plan but didn't give details..
Well geez.. as I mentioned before, if he'd have given out details in that speech last night, it would still be going on. That would have been idiotic to say the least. But he didn't give details,, so you get comments like yours.
Hey,, I'm ok with you and others not liking Obama.. he's pretty much ticked me off with his gutless actions not taming Pelosi and Reed. (another matter)
But dang it, be somewhat reasonable.. if you wait until the plan is made public and you don't like the details,, Fine.. knock them all you want. Say they aren't paid for if you feel that way.
But for crying out loud, at least see the thing before you knock it.
For the record, Obama didn't say anything last night that I haven't heard other presidents say,, Both D and R. so for my money, I doubt there is really much new there. But the devil is in the details.. I'll wait for them before I knock the guy. But that's just me
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Medicare is not allowed to negotiate prescription prices like the VA does. The guy suggested that Medicare could save about $250 billion over 10 years by changing the law so they could negotiate prices. That seems like something that everyone could, and should get behind. It is sensible, and saves taxpayer money without a drop in service.
Surely your not suggesting that we take our tax money away from some politician's poker buddy who runs a pharm. company, are you?
Last edited by Flap; 09/09/1102:09 PM.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
My concern is this: He said that small businesses will get a $4K tax break for hiring a someone. So unless that person only needs to get paid $4K for the entire year, the small business will be losing money once you figure in their salary.
I'm not sure a small tax break will help small business owners justify bringing someone on board if the work they do doesn't pay for their costs.
------------------------------ *In Baker we trust* -------------------------------
Quote: However, isn't it refreshing to hear a politician actually go against the "company line" and try to find middle ground on making this work? He said they need drastic reform to Medicare too, which is dangerous ground for a Democrat but should be music to the ears of Republicans.
Will all of this work and be as rosy as he proclaimed last night? Even an eternal optimist like me thinks not. But is is good to see someone in Office who is willing to try to find some middle ground politically.
I think so.... but it's that very aspect that some are using to project him as "weak." It really does speak to the current political landscape of partisan 'absoluteness.'
The minute I heard archlibs going after him for not being tougher in opposition to the Repubs, I knew he was in trouble. Nowadays, it seems that everyone is spoiling for a fight every day, and that compromise isn't an option.
I find it sad.... because with all the posturing, vitriol and partisanship, the American Public is always the one to suffer- because NOTHING ever gets done.
Compromise has always been the ONLY way things have moved forward... and that spirit of compromise is what keeps the dialogue open to effect adjustments and changes going forward. Nowadays, obstructionist politics have us in a hammerlock- because any intiative that smacks of "middle of the road" get smashed by both sides before it ever has a chance to be tried.
Both sides remind me of 4-year olds: if it isn't my way, I don't wanna play anymore!" Meanwhile, citizens everywhere seem to get their marching orders from "Johnny One-Note" pundits and go after each other in the same way.
It's why I'm rarely seen in political threads here...
"Pass my plan. Pass it now. Pass my plan. Pass it immediately."
John Boehner's expressions ... Priceless
"I don't do Math", but how is a SS tax cut going to fix it's predicted deficient in the future?
Is he conceding to younger generations that it will most likely not be available for them in the future and that they should be screwed less?
As far as tax breaks to small business for hiring employee's ... I don't see how that can cost us tax revenue if those folks were never hired in the first place those folks would be further straining our economy, with unemployment extensions and funds. Employer incentives are a no brain'er I think for either party.
He also talked about tax code reform witch is another bipartisan issue ... well he has the talking part done. Employer incentives should be on par with any tax code reform.
i'd like to see something in writing that is read through and discussed in detail and the president and cabinet having a Q&A with congress about the details (after they have been able to read through it).
honestly, i don't think you can have something like that on TV (it becomes a political fight rather than trying to find a solution), but you close off the doors and the details get leaked afterwards anyways (they always do).
Really? 
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