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First...when it comes to stepping up in the pocket. There are a number of QBs mostly shorter (around Colt's height) that dont generally step up in the pocket.
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This is something Colt has done well, and extends and makes things happen because of it. I dont think he wouldve found Watson on the TD pass in week 1 or Mo by staying in the pocket and stepping up. There wouldnt have been enough time.
Does this make Colt a bad NFL QB? That approach? How do you see it that it is a bad thing?
First of all, those QBs are few and far between...it's not about aesthetics when NFL GMs rate pro style QBs higher than shotgun-circus CFB QBs, there's a reason for it: the former translate better to NFL play and have a higher % of succeeding
That said, there are always exceptions to the rules as you pointed out, but for every Brees there are 100 Zeiers, Rattays or Wuerffels (sometimes Colt reminds me of them, he's better though).
Now the question is: Is he the next Brees? or Wuerffel/Rattay? After what we've seen it's pretty save to say: something in between with very small chances of Brees or Rattay...and here's the next thing where I disagree with most: if he becomes a Orton or Pennington, which I consider his absolute ceiling, I would not be happy about it...those are AVG at best system QBs that ALWAYS lost the big games, if they even reached the POs that is....if that's his ceiling, what good is it as a "franchise" QB? I mean I understand that it would be a HUGE upgrade over the garbage we have witnessed before, but looking around the league it's not satisfying me and while back to back 8-8 season would be an upgrade it still would miss the goal of this game, right?...and we're talking ceiling. I don't see him ever becoming anywhere close to Brees, lacks arm/zip and decision making....working around "deficiencies" only works if you have major traits to make up for it and Vick and Brees have those, Colt's 1 is exactly what? those guys can do this because Ds will still have to respect their arm or in Vick's case escapability too...those guys thus often have time to set and throw even outside the pocket...Colt otoh always has guys in his face since they play him short anyway and has to throw on the run from his backfoot all too often...that's a recipe for failure long term and no other QB gets away with this
Also, "extending plays" is a nice way of saying he didn't know where to go with the ball...Shurmur's Offense isn't designed for "extending plays"...sure, that happens "sometimes" but with Colt almost evey 2nd pass attempt turns into chicken circus and I'm sure that's NOT what Shurmur wants to see
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Accuracy is another thing that Colt excels at. While he has been less accurate this year (id blame timing and offense semantics for the discrepancy) accuracy is something that the best QBs have. ... Colt is an accurate QB that makes decisions that doesnt hurt the team.
Colt is a QB that is accurate and doesnt take many risks. But to this point, while his YPA is low...he has only 1 turnover in 2 games, and has thrown 3 TDs. I cant find a bad in that...I'd rather that he not throw the deep ball in lieu of getting what he can without making a mistake. What of his throws is the bad? the velocity or the decisions or what? I think that 2/3s of the time completing his passes and not turning it over works for me. What say you?
Well I have to disagree mostly here...Colt in fact has been pretty inaccurate this season imho, even on some of his completions he threw the ball behind his receiver....and it's not anywhere near 2/3...not last season (60%) and less this season: 56% for a QB who's throws don't travel over 10yds in the air 80-90% of the time is actually pretty bad...in the accuracy department I've seen a regression more than anything else...even 66% against the Colts is worth nothing if your YPA is till under 7 and you don't connect when the game is up for grabs
He limits mistakes, that's right but it's worth noticing that he got extremely lucky against the Colts on the fumble and dropped pick 6 and pretty much all of his big plays could have gone either way but did fall on our side...but yeah, overall for a young QB he excels here...the downside of this though is his lack of play making plays...in 1 game he has as many "big" gains as most QBs have in 1 drive, and I'm not exagerating...I know some of it is by design but I doubt all of it...he's simply more of a checkdown chucker...always has been, it's his game. While that limits mistakes, it's also limits Offense prowess, it's more "not to lose" style than "let's go win it" and I thought all of us had enough of "not to lose" mentality...the Offense really just scored 14 points on 2 solid drives in that game....against a well below AVG D
His stats are his best friend right now and they look much better than his game but YPA and comp% are pretty low, esp. for this Offense
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Given youve said he hasnt been able to put a game away. It has been noted that our WRs dont get much separation. Its also been noted that our playcalling has been subpar as they havent been terrific at establishing a rhythm in using the WRs and RBs fluidly to build upon previous play. Its also been noted that our OL hasnt been getting the push it needs to do the job efficiently.
How much of our inability to keep drives alive in the 2nd half has been on Colt, and how much has been on the aforementioned variables?
Well, have the variables changed during the game? It's difficult to assess blame but the QB is the QB of an Offense, it all starts there....and it's alarming that Colt AND his Offense have been shut down after halftime adjustements in back to back games now. Is he solely responsible for it? No, just as he isn't solely the reason for good drives...but the trend isn't good and it's a QB driven league, so if your Offense is taken out in the 2nd half regularly the major blame and attention will go towards the QB...and I think it's right in this case as I've seen DCs adjust to Colt's inablitiies....I'm rather surprised they don't play him close ALL the time, they really beg him to beat them deepbut he won't go there for whatever reason
I also think it's no coincidence that he starts out lame, then when behind gets some softer D looks, owns them, we take a close lead and D goes back head hunting with no over the top help, the same happened against the Jets last season...that's why I say that Colt is a QB that lulls DCs into sleep since he looks so lost to start out almost every game that they think they can wait for his mistakes and take fewer risks blitzing/playing up to the LOS...if you give Colt the underneath you play call to his strength as he will kill you there, play him close and spy him and you will have him under control...every decent DC that watches those 2 games will bring the house no matter the score more often than not now and it's the right thing to do with Colt as he lacks decision making and mechanics/arm to make them pay anyway
You guys can think what you want, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but nobody will ever convince me that Colt put the game away...against the Colts it was a combination of Cribbs, Defense and Hillis...Colt was a bystander that didn't make mistakes (and got lucky once on a dropped pick 6)...against the Bengals he was worse than that as he wasn't able to put the game away AND unable to get us into FG range down 3p with 4 downs to work with and a short field courtesy of Cribbs to boot...that was bad all the way....thankfully we didn't need to rely on him against Indy but his game and the game as a whole were very similar....we just avoided huddlegate this time around, so the Benson "defense gave up"-TD was our Hillis TD run...carbon copy of a game otherwise where we begged the opponent to beat us by not putting up 6 despite camping in their half of the field for most of the 2nd half...against real teams we will lose games like that by 2-3 scores before the 4th Qtr starts
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Happy Birthday! (first of all)
Nice job of breaking that down for us. Thank you.
Now .... I have not had a chance to look at the game again .... but did McCoy simply not look left at all on those plays? Was his body orientation to the field such that he would not have been able to throw to the left without moving to a different stance/position? How many were roll-outs to the right side? (If you know without having to go back and look again)
My biggest worry about McCoy was that the field would be compressed vertically. In the WCO, if it also becomes compressed horizontally, we'll be in trouble. A WCO QB needs t be able to spread the ball sideline to sideline, usually on passes thrown within a second or 2 of the snap. (1-2-3 (foot hits) throw) The throws are generally made on time. Hit a spot and throw, knowing that your receiver will be there at that exact time. I have seen very little of this out of the offense as of yet. There seems to be far more searching while in the pocket, as opposed to hitting receivers quickly.
I'm sure that Shurmur is working with McCoy on this. McCoy is making his job so much more difficult, when just a few minor adjustments would help him so much. Hopefully they'll be able to help him make those adjustments.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 09/21/11 09:08 AM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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"Growing Up Colt"
please.
His last 3 starts have been flat out horrible,I mean bring back DA and Quinn horrible.
He needs to improve alot and rapidly,or his next book will be "Want Ketchup with those Fries".
You're nuts. Colt reminds me a lot of Joe Montana. He's close to Joes height and weight too.
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What I was seeing was him not even looking to the left. I couldn't understand it. The play where he started "patting the baby" and ended up throwing over the middle to Alex Smith for a 1st down looked like it was supposed to go to the left and he just freaked a little. I don't know, maybe throwing to the right was part of the gameplan, but it was pretty glaring.
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throwing to the left requires a strong arm 
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Well, for a right-handed QB, rolling out to the right is certainly an easier throw (trying to take over Daman's "Captain Obvious" title  ). But if he's in the pocket, I'm not sure it really matters which side he's going to. I know very little about the mechanics of a QB and how a game works while you're playing, but it certainly seems odd, and it certainly seems combatable from a defense's POV. And, let's face it, if we're able to see that's what's happening, coaches are going to see it, too.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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i believe colt has a nfl arm, i just liked saying that because there are some on here who jump at the chance to say he doesnt. i do think, however, it would require more strength to throw across your body to the left. but, i am no expert nor have i played the QB position. i've just thrown the ball around my yard 
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Yeah, I getcha.
I guess I'm thinking that, if he's in the pocket, he can orient his body so he's not throwing across it.
For example, it isn't that he always steps straight and then throws all with his arm. He's going to step toward his WR.
Maybe he's like Zoolander and he's not an ambiturner?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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He was nowhere near Montana. Montana was a master at the LOS. He read the defense, and knew exactly where each and every player was, and what he was going to do. Montana hit his receivers on time, and allowed them the ability to run with the ball. He had remarkable accuracy. I don't just mean a gaudy completion percentage. In his final 4 (full) seasons with the 49'ers, he had average yards/attempt of 7.7, 7.5, 9.1 and 7.6. McCoy was at about 6.5 yards/pass in the game, despite completing almost 70% of his passes. This number, obviously, should go much higher as the completion percentage increases. Many of McCoy's passes were caught, but were in a location where the receiver's opportunity for yardage after the catch was severely limited. Montana also threw a TON to his RB. 118 passes combined in 1988 ..... 112 combined in 1989 ..... He was very effective at using screen passes, and at setting up screens so that they ran to the correct area depending upon how the defense lined up. That being said, he still took shots. The only 2 years of his career that I can find such stats on show that he went 20+ about 2.5 to 3 times/game in his 2 seasons in KC. I bet it was far more often in San Francisco. Here's a "fun fact" ..... McCoy has 4 pass plays of 20+ yards this year. Every one either directly resulted in a TD, or was a big part of a TD drive. Every one. Given that we have scored a total of 5 TDs this season total ......... Any resemblance between McCoy and Montana is superficial at best. It probably isn't fair to McCoy either. He's nowhere near ready to be that kind of QB. He needs to become a whole lot more proficient in the WCO before that type of comparison becomes anything remotely accurate.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That's a very interesting breakdown.. Thanks. That took some work..  You've found a weakness in either Colt or the coaching.. Probably more colt I guess. Another thing it points out is that all the criticism leveled at Robo isn't all him. LIke I been saying, he can't catch the ball if they don't throw it to him. Colt might have gotten away with that in College (and it appears that he did) but he won't get away with that for very long in the pros.. either he or the coaching staff will have to make some changes.. Again, thanks
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Very fair Django... Going off what you said. How many of those short passing routes and not going deep is a product of the system. Look at Sam Bradford's stats last year... 354/590 - 60% comp rate - 3,512 yards - 5.95 YPA - 18 TDs - 49 yd Longest completion - 15 INTs - 6 Fumbles - 76.5 rating...and if you want to go deeper http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13197/year/2010/sam-bradford In the 4th Q of a close game (+/- 7) he completed 59% with a 6.03 YPA, and in the last 2 mi ns of a game or half he completed 41 of 80 with a 5.14 YPA. The kid completed 60 percent of his passes, completed 354 balls and none of em went for 50 or more... You look at most of his stats and theyre very comparable to Colt this year http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13199/colt-mccoy the only real difference i see in them at this point is that in the last 2 mins Colt has a 9.68 YPA inside 2 mins. (albeit he is jsut 5 of 7, but still). Looking from a numbers stand point...He and Bradford under Shurmur are very similar. So is Colt's lack of throwing the long ball, or testing teams deep, or whatever a product of the offense or Colt...and Bradford? What would you like to see from Colt that would change your mind on a lot of these things? Would you rather him wing it in there to a WR who doesnt have any separation for it to get batted down by the DB? That has happened (more to Little than anyone else) this year. I've seen times where Colt has winged one in there to a WR who hasnt gotten separation and it just gets knocked down. Towards putting a game away. If Moore catches that ball that Colt laid up for him against Cincy and we go up by 10...would that have been him putting the game away? I personally put that incompletion on Moore as he should have had 2 hands on that ball. That seemed like a put away play. What would convince you Colt could put a game away? Also, I'd be interested in your opinion on Romo...cuz thats where I think Colt is trending to at this point. His game reminds me a lot of Romo right now...except Romo has been doing it for years.
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At the risk of being labeled "Captain Obvious" We need to get this corrected, because it has been an on going tendency of Colt and also I think our offensive play calling, because obviously the left side WR has rarely been Colts first option.
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j/c:
1st and 10 at CLE 20C.McCoy pass short right to C.McCoy to CLV 15 for -5 yards (D.Peko; R.Maualuga). #91 Gathers tips ball back to #12 McCoy
3rd and 16 at CLE 14(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short right to P.Hillis to CLV 21 for 7 yards (G.Atkins; T.Howard).
1st and 10 at CLE 20(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short right to M.Massaquoi to CLV 30 for 10 yards (T.Howard; N.Clements).
2nd and 19 at CLE 21C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to P.Hillis. Penalty on CLV-O.Marecic, Offensive Pass Interference, declined.
3rd and 24 at CLE 16(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete deep left to B.Robiskie (R.Nelson). PENALTY on CLV, Unsportsmanlike Conduct, 8 yards, enforced at CLV 16.
2nd and 7 at CLE 23C.McCoy pass incomplete short left to J.Cribbs (M.Johnson).
3rd and 7 at CLE 23(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short left to B.Watson to CLV 26 for 3 yards (L.Hall).
1st and 10 at CLE 43C.McCoy pass short right to M.Massaquoi to CIN 46 for 11 yards (N.Clements).
1st and 10 at CIN 34C.McCoy pass deep middle to B.Watson for 34 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
2nd and 7 at CLE 13C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to G.Little.
3rd and 7 at CLE 13(Shotgun) C.McCoy scrambles up the middle to CLV 22 for 9 yards (N.Clements).
1st and 10 at CLE 22C.McCoy pass incomplete deep right to B.Watson.
1st and 10 at CLE 39C.McCoy pass deep right to M.Massaquoi to CIN 5 for 56 yards (R.Nelson) [T.Howard].
2nd and 2 at CIN 2C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to B.Robiskie.
3rd and 2 at CIN 2(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short middle to E.Moore for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN. (actually left)
2nd and 4 at CLE 40(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to B.Robiskie.
3rd and 4 at CLE 40(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete short middle to B.Watson (C.Crocker).
2nd and 5 at CIN 48(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short right to P.Hillis to CIN 37 for 11 yards (R.Maualuga; T.Howard).
2nd and 6 at CIN 33C.McCoy pass short middle to E.Moore to CIN 16 for 17 yards (N.Clements).
1st and 10 at CIN 16(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short right to B.Watson to CIN 8 for 8 yards (R.Nelson).
2nd and 3 at CIN 3C.McCoy pass incomplete short left to E.Moore (L.Hall).
3rd and 3 at CIN 3C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to J.Cribbs (N.Clements).
2nd and 6 at CIN 40(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to M.Massaquoi [F.Rucker].
3rd and 6 at CIN 40(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to G.Little. PENALTY on CIN-L.Hall, Defensive Pass Interference, 7 yards, enforced at CIN 40 - No Play. Play Challenged by CIN and Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
2nd and 13 at CIN 36C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to E.Moore.
3rd and 13 at CIN 36(Shotgun) C.McCoy sacked at CIN 44 for -8 yards (R.Nelson).
3rd and 5 at CLE 25(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short right to E.Moore pushed ob at CLV 41 for 16 yards (C.Crocker).
2nd and 9 at CLE 42C.McCoy sacked at CLV 39 for -3 yards (C.Crocker). FUMBLES (C.Crocker), and recovers at CLV 39.
3rd and 17 at CLE 34(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to B.Watson [G.Atkins].
1st and 10 at CLE 11C.McCoy pass short left to J.Cribbs to CLV 24 for 13 yards (L.Hall).
3rd and 2 at CLE 32(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short right to G.Little to CLV 44 for 12 yards (R.Nelson).
2nd and 11 at CLE 43(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short right to P.Hillis to CLV 39 for -4 yards (T.Howard).
1st and 10 at CLE 21C.McCoy pass short left to P.Hillis to CLV 32 for 11 yards (R.Nelson).
1st and 10 at CLE 32C.McCoy pass incomplete short right to E.Moore (R.Nelson).
2nd and 10 at CLE 32C.McCoy pass incomplete short left to G.Little (L.Hall).
3rd and 10 at CLE 32(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete deep right to M.Massaquoi.
(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short left to P.Hillis to CLV 46 for 2 yards (R.Maualuga).
(No Huddle, Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete short left to B.Watson.
(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete short left to M.Massaquoi (G.Atkins) [C.Dunlap].
(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete short middle to C.McCoy. Penalty on CLV-A.Mack, Illegal Touch Pass, declined.
(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short right to P.Hillis ran ob at CLV 31 for 3 yards (R.Maualuga).
(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass incomplete short left to M.Massaquoi (M.Johnson) [C.Dunlap].
(Shotgun) C.McCoy pass short right to J.Norwood to CLV 37 for 6 yards (C.Crocker).
C.McCoy up the middle to CLV 40 for 3 yards.
(No Huddle, Shotgun) C.McCoy pass intended for P.Hillis INTERCEPTED by M.Johnson at CLV 33. M.Johnson to CLV 33 for no gain (J.Thomas). CIN-C.Dunlap was injured during the play. His return is Doubtful.
OK, looks like he was a bit more balanced, at least in attempts, in the Cincy game:
Left: 5/12, 31 yards, 1 TD
Middle: 2/5, 51 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
Right: 12/24, 137 yards
Sack/scramble: 4 plays, 1 net yard
Also in this game, Robiskie lined up on both sides of the ball, but did not have a catch.
Last edited by CleveSteve; 09/21/11 12:10 PM.
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Nice work!
It still shows a disparity albeit less of one, but 24 to the right and only 12 to the left is still a right handed tendency and not as balanced as it could be.
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However, Robiske was targeted in the Bengals game, and he did catch a deep pass, although it was called back on a somewhat questionable OPI call. (From what I have read, and heard on the radio. I have not had a chance to review the play)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Take a QB for instance. to my knowledge there isn't a stat out there that accounts for a receiver not hanging onto a ball thrown right at his hands, then watching it bounce off the recievers hands into the hands of a defender.
It's an interception.. and that's the way it's going to forever be written.
But is it? Is it really an interception? Well, yeah, but was it the QB's fault? Hardly, yet the QB will be held accountable for it his entire career.
Which is why using too limited of a sample is a problem. There are also occassions where a QB might throw a bad ball and have it batted by a LB into a receivers hands for a big gain or a TD... or a WR makes a fantastic catch on a less than perfect ball to bail out the QB.. (See, Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow bailing out DA regulalry in 2007)..... those things happen too. And over a longer period of time, one would expect that they would sort of balance each other out.... The tighter the window of time you are trying to examine the greater the chance that you aren't seeing an accurate depiction of the whole story.
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It has been my experience that they do tend to balance each other out over time.Exactly as yo describe, there may be a fantastic foul up, or a tipped ball that is picked, but in the same game there may be a pass thrown right into the waiting arms of a LB ..... that should be a pick six ..... that gets dropped.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Good point, I didn't even mention dropped INTs...
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general reply...
How is it that holmgren says it takes 32 starts with the same offense before you can judge a guy, and all of you have him figured out in 2 games?
I would be willing to bet that none of them have the whole offense down. You've got rookies everywhere, you've got guys that might be backups that are starting.
The fact that anyone compares our offense to any established team is beyond me.
I swear we are a victim of our own creation....we've suffered so long that we can't wait for these guys to learn...to get comfortable, to become veterans. Let's rip them with 2 hours on the job, with a shortened preseason to boot.
At some point we are going to have to buy into the fact that greatness takes time.....this is year one...going on game 3.
They will plug some more weak spots next draft, after this season...they will have an idea of who's cutting it after a season's worth of games, and they will grow from there...
We are not going to look like green bay overnght...colt isn't rogers, even if he was on that team right now he doesn't have the experience that he does. same thing with comparing him to brees.
Alittle patience is in order, or we will forever look like crap. We're building thru the draft, I for one am glad as hell....let these kids learn, the ones that do will reward us for years....the ones that don't will be replaced.
I need to start selling you guys beer and asprin for as bent as you all are ;;)
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Couldn't agree more Elf.. That is one of the reasons I'm really glad we have a guy with the experience and track record of Holmgren. He is far less likely than less experienced guys to cave in to the "must win now" mentality that others have had like Butch and Opie who had to feel like they were competing to keep their jobs from day 1.
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no Way Elf,, if they can't prove that that can go from the womb to the probowl, they are worthless  Seriously, I really wish I'd have said it the way you did..
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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1) Why Robiskie has no passes thrown to him
If Shurmur can be trusted to tell the truth, in his presser the day after the game he was asked that question and his answer was that he wanted to focus on MoMass, Little and Cribbs in that game. He said he has no problem with throwing Robo the ball, but he wanted to focus on those other three Sunday.
Which bring me to something I've been thinking about and that is does Shurmur still, even though the games count, use them to evaluate in some instances.
As Toad said in his thread, and I agree with him on this, Shurmur is protecting Colt at this point. That is to be expected since Colt has so little experience in this offense. Shurmur's not throwing the playbook at him. He's feeding him plays on which he can build on. (If Colt's still here 2 or 3 years from now we won't be seeing that. The entire playbook will be available to call at a moment's notice. But for now Colt just isn't there yet.)
So I'm wondering, is Shurmur's focus on those 3 wide receivers Sunday, (he said so himself), a result of mismatches, playing to the defenses weaknesses or simply evaluating them on what they can do if they are the focus of the offense. It's a fine line between protecting Colt, focusing on those particular WR's and playing to win.
Admittedly it's harder to simply play to win the game when you've got a young QB and young/inexperienced WR's who need to be brought along slowly. At the same time they all have to be pushed to their individual limits. That's the only way to know what they can do.
I don't think I've really put my whispy thought into words very well. I just hope some of you know and get what I'm saying.
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I completely agree with your post.
After all, Drew Brees had a few rough years when he came into the league and look where he is now.
And NO I am not saying Colt is Drew Brees.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I think that's a pretty good assessment. Until he knows what his guys do best, then he can't make the best use of their skills.
He probably won't know enough about his players if he doesn't first test them in game situations.
Each week he should learn more about how best to use them.
I think Little is showing some real positive signs for a rookie who missed his last year in College ball.
I think for the first time we have a system and a coaching staff that seems be figuring out how to use Cribbs at WR too.
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I think you are right in that Shurmer is using this season, or at least the first part of it, as something of an extended pre-season.
Going long on third and short. Passing to both corners of the end zone instead of running Hillis from the three. Using Hardesty instead of Hillis in a similar situation. I particularly liked going right back to Hardesty again after the fumble. Using Pinkston at LG, his probable permanent position, instead of RT, where he would most likely be the best we have.
These are all long-term rather than short-term moves.
With our schedule this year, it's almost like a long pre-season, with five games of real football at the end. This year, I really think the team will be ready to play those last five games, and I'm starting to look forward to it.
You mentioned earlier that we don't have the defense to be successful with a "Game Manager". I would agree, but with two #1s next year, I want to add just one word to that. "Yet".
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Quote:
Looking from a numbers stand point...He and Bradford under Shurmur are very similar. So is Colt's lack of throwing the long ball, or testing teams deep, or whatever a product of the offense or Colt...and Bradford?
Well, I haven't seen a lot of entire games from the Rams but remember I liked the "creativity" of that Offense and presnap movements but the actual production was rather underwhelming...I thought it was a combination of pretty bad OL and WR and rookie QB but I saw more from Bradford from a mechanics and pocket awareness standpoint...but that wa last year and Bradford is their problem not ours....on MNF he made some throws I haevn't seen from Colt yet fwiw
Anyway, Shurmur's style IS dink'n'dunk..mostly...but he'd be a stupid OC if he wouldn't have deep routes for his receivers, it's elemantary to stretch the D. His Offense certainly IS NOT about rumning around 5secs and improvise though....he said so himself...so that's on Colt
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What would you like to see from Colt that would change your mind on a lot of these things? Would you rather him wing it in there to a WR who doesnt have any separation for it to get batted down by the DB?
My biggest concern with Colt are his deep throws (simply lack zip, often floaters or "lobs" which allow DBs to come back to the ball), pocket awareness AND mechanics...that's a lot...so while our WR certainly are bottom 3rd in the league in getting separation deep it's also on Colt that he hasn't enough arms to still make plays on smaller "passing windows"...this is the NFL, nobody will get open by a mile like in College, so if you float the ball instead of zip it chances increase that the DB comes back to make a play....that's exactly what happened on the 3rd&long to Massa...and those standards middle-sideline passes (wasn't even a real deep pass) absolutely HAVE TO work to be a consistently successful NFL QB...so, as I already said multiple times: stepping into the pocket, making real NFL throws and accepting the pocket to close on you without panicking...that's what I want to see from Colt...I know he can run around, I know he can be accurate on 5yd pitches...but that's not enough for a NFL Offense
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Towards putting a game away. If Moore catches that ball that Colt laid up for him against Cincy and we go up by 10...would that have been him putting the game away? I personally put that incompletion on Moore as he should have had 2 hands on that ball. That seemed like a put away play.
What would convince you Colt could put a game away?
Well, actually put a game away, maybe?  He doesn't have to throw for the TD, but a solid drive late with the lead, converting some 3rd downs, eating up clock etc etc ....that's putting a game away
The pass to Moore was a little overthrown, Moore gave poor effort going for it with 1 hand, I think he would have to go all out jump-diving with 2 hands to make that catch...he's still a receiving-TE, not a speedster #2 WR...but I still think that he simply didn't think the pass was coming his way...you don't only fool the DBs by going deep once or twice a game, you also lull your receivers into going through the motions...I know it shouldn't happen but it does...I really think he was surprised by the ball actually being thrown his way, since it never happens in with Colt running this particular short-field Offense...that's not Colt's fault as it was 1 of his better passes this year but I think that's what happened there...
I don't remember when that happened, I think early 3rd? Yeah, it was an opportunity to put the game "out of rech" at least at that time but there was still over 20-25min left of football after that....putting the game away isn't just about 1 pays going right or wrong, it's about solid, time consuming drives...putting a stamp on the game....and normally it's the best possible situation for a QB as defenses look for the run more...he had multiple opportunities later with short fields to work with and he just didn't get it done....in both games that is, really there wasn't much difference in Colt's effectiveness in both 2nd halfes...no whodini-huddlegate, better D, better ST were the major difference...not QB play
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I do remember him throwing wide left and almost getting picked in the colt game. There were some passes to Little compleed to the left I think so still I think Robo does NOT have the confidence of Colt like the rookie already seems to be getting.
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The way you beat the colts is with small ball. The 2 sideline passes that were knocked down near picks are plays that Colts defense dreams about. That is the throw they want you to make. Colt put plenty on the throws but he was just baited. Those are ones you learn from but usually the hard way lol.
In the Bengals game Colts best passes were wasted. Pass to Moore was perfect, Moore just slowed up and then gave a half ass effort although still not sure if his left arm was held or not. I thought the best pass he made was the sideline throw to watson but Watson just never looked for the ball. That was a huge mental mistake by Watson.
Reviewing the Colts game I can agree with Shurmur. Colt was very efficient. He made smart, accurate throws throughout the contest and kept drives alive. if he plays like he did on Sunday we will win a lot of games.
BTW I was really surprised at how often our receivers were being held on those slants and crosses. The same stuff the Colts cried to high heaven about regarding the Pats, they were more than guilty of on Sunday.
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I don't have the tape so somebody can correct me but there has been much talk of the pass into the flats to MoMass that was knocked down. I seem to remember thinking at the time that MoMass was drifting away from the ball when he should have been at least stationary if not coming back to meet it.. regardless of the zip on the ball, that is what he should have done. I'm going from memory because I didn't think that play would garner so much discussion but if MoMass had come back to meet the ball, it's either a completion or a pass interference.
yebat' Putin
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I dont really know if he had a chance to come back for the ball. Pretty good zip on it and the pass looked right on time. It was just a good defensive play.
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Quote:
I seem to remember thinking at the time that MoMass was drifting away from the ball when he should have been at least stationary if not coming back to meet it.
I didn't re-watch that play but at the time I though he should have come back.
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I dont really know if he had a chance to come back for the ball. Pretty good zip on it and the pass looked right on time. It was just a good defensive play.
this.. Mo was too close to the sideline to come back.. Looks like he was more focused on keeping two feet in bounds.
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Quote:
I do remember him throwing wide left and almost getting picked in the colt game. There were some passes to Little compleed to the left I think so still I think Robo does NOT have the confidence of Colt like the rookie already seems to be getting.
I'm not sure that's the case. Reason being that I don't believe that Shurmur would waste his time putting Robo out there if Colt didn't have confidence in him.
He'd stick Cribbs or MoMass or Little or even Mitchell out there. or have Evan Moore line up as a WR. And that's not whats happening.
No coach in his right mind would line up a WR that the QB doesn't have faith in.. doesn't make any sense if you have other options and we do...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
I'm not sure that's the case. Reason being that I don't believe that Shurmur would waste his time putting Robo out there if Colt didn't have confidence in him.
He'd stick Cribbs or MoMass or Little or even Mitchell out there. or have Evan Moore line up as a WR. And that's not whats happening.
No coach in his right mind would line up a WR that the QB doesn't have faith in.. doesn't make any sense if you have other options and we do...
"Confidence" be damned, they are all young and Colt needs to throw to the guy thats open... IF THIS IS THE CASE (which I don't believe it is) then the coach should not allow the QB to dictate this... you pull Colt aside and say "Throw the damn ball to the guy thats open and let me worry about what happens after that."...
But I don't believe that is the case.
yebat' Putin
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If Colt threw the ball to Robiskie, he'd get blasted for "dumping off too much", and throwing into coverage, because Robiskie is constantly 2-3 yards off the line getting jammed by a defender.
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Quote:
If Colt threw the ball to Robiskie, he'd get blasted for "dumping off too much", and throwing into coverage, because Robiskie is constantly 2-3 yards off the line getting jammed by a defender.
You know this how.. I mean, when I"m watching a game, Robo isn't even in site most of the time because they don't show where the ball isn't being thrown... so how do you know where Robo is.. I wanna know cause then I'll watch for it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I hate the "They don't show downfield" excuse lol.
You don't have to look downfield for Robiskie ... When they're showing Colt dropping back to pass, you can see 2-3 yards past the line of scrimmage.
Look there, you'll find Robiskie.
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If Robiskie only runs short routes and Colt only completes short passes, why doesn't Robiskie have a bunch of catches? 
yebat' Putin
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Because he doesn't run short routes, he hangs out with the defender there.
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