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Curious if there are any Right Tackles out there we could trade for. If I'm not mistaken, the Browns have a wealth of picks next year. I'm wondering if we could trade a mid-level pick for a B grade Right Tackle to someone solidify that side of the line. If Colt McCoy is going to have the right side of the line continue to break down, the Browns will be shuffling through QB's again this year with injuries.
If I'm Cleveland, I'm on the phone right now trying to solidify the Right side of this O-Line.
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People used the fact that the team had a shortened preseason as a reason for the team's play in game 1.
Hicks has only been with the team for less than a week. (9-5) Cousins for about 2 weeks. (8-31)
Maybe we should let them actually learn their teammates names ....and the offense .... before we dump them for another guy who will have to acclimate.
Plus ..... we had a rookie Guard and a 2nd year Guard playing in this game. That didn't help matters at all. Probably nerves going on there to go with the rest of the situation.
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Not to mention that to everyone else that was with the team last season, this is a new offense. I wonder,, does anyone think they still have some learning to do?  It was a bad loss,,, one that bothers me also,, but damn,, somebody please, give them a little time to gel already....
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I agree....we do need time to gel.
That said, I still think you have to suck pretty bad if you can't beat Cincy, with many of the same issues as us at home.
That might be the worst loss by our team in the last 5 years.
Everything about it sucked.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Curious if there are any Right Tackles out there we could trade for. If I'm not mistaken, the Browns have a wealth of picks next year. I'm wondering if we could trade a mid-level pick for a B grade Right Tackle to someone solidify that side of the line. If Colt McCoy is going to have the right side of the line continue to break down, the Browns will be shuffling through QB's again this year with injuries.
If I'm Cleveland, I'm on the phone right now trying to solidify the Right side of this O-Line.
a little late for that after going through free agency in denial about our oline we added to our troubles with a retirement and n injury and oashos getting hurt AGAIN. we were about as ready to deal with this as the browns defense on the quick snap Sunday.
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That might be the worst loss by our team in the last 5 years.
Repeated for emphasis. Saying there is "work to do" and we need "time to gel" is the understatement of the year. Give us about 18 more months, then we might be able to compete with Bruce Gradkowski at home.
As to finding a RT at this late date...that ship has sailed I'm afraid. The time to address RT was about, oh 2-6 months ago. I feel like Heckert & Holmgren are Officer Barbrady. "Move along people, nothing to see here!" "All is well!" "We're confident with Pashos at RT", "Our WR corps is fine, we like what we have there", "We could have one of the best starting LB groups in the NFL". Please.
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The time to address RT was about, oh 2-6 months ago.
Let's see, what was the NFL atmosphere 2 to 6 months ago? Oh yeah, locked-out.
That's what we should have done, we should have gotten ahead of everyone by signing players while nobody else could because of the lockout.
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j/c
When we picked up Cousins I went on the Ravens board and read a few posters thoughts on him, the general consensus was that they were suprised that Baltimore cut him because he seemed to be doing really well at guard.
However they did go on to say that it was a good pickup for the Browns as long as we used him at guard but if we ever had to use him at tackle we would be in trouble and they hoped he would be starting at tackle when they played us.
Judging by what I seen sunday they definately were not wrong so far and I hope we can somehow solidify that position in some way shape or form.
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Is there anyway we can get one before this weekend? Whoever is playing over there is going to get eaten alive by Robert Mathis and I would like to have just a little bit of time for our QB to throw.
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6 months ago roughly (5 to be exact but I was going with round numbers) was the NFL draft. Last I recall they had that didn't they? Hmm, I can't remember....
2 months ago roughly was the start of FA.
Thanks for playing though. Better luck next time.
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Is there anyway we can get one before this weekend? Whoever is playing over there is going to get eaten alive by Robert Mathis and I would like to have just a little bit of time for our QB to throw.
Unless we got a Probowler that's still pretty young..(what are the odds of that) I doubt we could get one and have him up and running by Sunday.
I doubt we are even looking closely but if someone came available, I'm not even sure they'd try for him.
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I was mostly joking about getting one by Sunday.
Even the best tackles have problems with the two guys we will be facing this upcoming weekend. And the two guys we ran out there last week were, let's say, less than the best. Hopefully Pashos can play at least a little bit.
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Hicks was beaten like a bongo on Cuban pride day in Miami. Cousins played surprisingly well. Not sure why we brought Hicks in to replace cousins in the 4th.
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I was mostly joking about getting one by Sunday.
Even the best tackles have problems with the two guys we will be facing this upcoming weekend. And the two guys we ran out there last week were, let's say, less than the best. Hopefully Pashos can play at least a little bit.
Ahh, Ok,, I guess I totally missed the joke.. sorry bout that
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Hicks was beaten like a bongo on Cuban pride day in Miami. Cousins played surprisingly well. Not sure why we brought Hicks in to replace cousins in the 4th.
We where basically treating that position like we where in preseason. Why? Perhaps because we really don't know who will fit best there yet.
Hicks has actually played very little RT in his career and I think that he was brought in here more so to be depth at OG.
Pashos has typicality had his worst Sunday's when he is facing the smaller and quicker DE's, so even if he was to start next Sunday, I don't favor that match up for the good guys.
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The problem I have with the 2 dudes we signed as that they were both cut by their previous team, thus someone's sloppy seconds if you will. I don't want another one of "those" guys, I'm looking for this team to make an actual move and send a draft pick away for someone's 2nd string young up and coming Right Tackle. I'm confident there is a second string Rt. Tackle out there that has significantly more talent than the crap we put on the team.
I really get tired of guys making excuses for PROFESSIONAL football players. Most of these guys workout 365 days a year. Right Tackle in any offense is not a tough position to learn in a week or two, especially for Professionals. At the end of the day, it is a game they have been playing since most of them were 8 years old. Enough excuses, get out their and pick up a quality Right Tackle and give away a pick.
I know I'm wasting my breath here though....They won't make a move.
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The time to address RT was about, oh 2-6 months ago.
So, that meant 2 "OR" 6 months ago. It sure looks like "between 2 "to" 6 months ago". I mean dude, that's how you wrote it.
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Since when did you get go picky??
No matter how one wants to read it, it is clear the time to think about it was some time in the past and not now.
We all knew the right side was weak despite what was being said by the talking heads in Berea.
We rested our hopes on Pashos.
I never though Pashos all that good but I defer to the opinion of Heck, and since he though Pashos was a good play, so be it, but it didn't take much effort to see the guy has been pretty frail the last 2-3 years.
That's a red flag to me when you have a guy who should be in his prime years always on the bench with some sort of injury.
So now that leaves us either having to go with 22 year olds who have never played or scrambling to find 40 year olds who we hope have a few more games in them.
I'd expect to see a lot of 2 TE sets the rest of the way. At least the TE can chip somebody which hopefully allows the tackle time to get out of his stance and maybe get in the way for 3-4 seconds.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hated the loss. Period. But a reminder is in order that a line needs quality time to mesh, and that can take several years, not quarters. Inexcusables are the flags (mental) and some questions about what we did in game (sidelines). Linemen are easy scapegoats, and they deserve a big share of the loss IMO. But we can't have them perform well without the system being learned and a chance to get coached up. That said, we need better performance and execution. Also, the special teams freaked me out, and the punting helped to rattle nerves worse. Sometimes being snakebit like that just snowballs. But much of it is within our control. Catch the ball, get set on D (!), tackle, and lose the flags or you never will compete in the Bigs. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Right Tackles --- Any out there?
There's now one less out there . . .
Steelers tackle Colon put on IR, Meredith signed
September 13, 2011, 6:52 PM ET
Steelers' Willie Colon placed on IR
PITTSBURGH -- Willie Colon's season is over before it really started. Again.
The Steelers placed their starting right tackle on the injured reserve list on Tuesday hours after the 28-year-old lineman underwent surgery to repair a torn right triceps sustained in a season-opening loss to Baltimore.
This is the second straight year Colon's season has been cut remarkably short. He missed all of last year after rupturing his Achillies tendon in mini-camp, but the team was so confident he would bounce back it signed him to a five-year, $29 million contract in July.
"For Willie, going down two consecutive seasons is a tough blow," Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said. "We will keep him close and encourage him, and help him through what is going to be a tough time with rehab."
Rookie Marcus Gilbert will get the first crack at replacing Colon when the Steelers host Seattle on Sunday. Gilbert, taken in the second round of this year's draft, impressed during the preseason.
"He's a talented young guy," Tomlin said of Gilbert. "He doesn't have a great deal of experience but we are going to give him an opportunity to play and show what he's capable of."
Pittsburgh signed well-traveled veteran Jamon Meredith to fill Colon's roster spot. Meredith, who played a total of five games for three teams last year, was waived by the New York Giants this month.
Colon's injury is a significant blow to a line that looked overwhelmed at times against the Ravens. Baltimore sacked Ben Roethlisberger four times and forced a club-record seven turnovers as the defending AFC champions endured their worst opening-game loss in 14 years.
Gilbert is 6-foot-6, 330-pounds, nimble and versatile. He played multiple positions in college at Florida and held his own while going against the first-team defense in practice.
"He has done a nice job with the opportunities he has been given up to this point," Tomlin said. "It's enough for us to feel comfortable moving forward."
Gilbert's performance will be the least of Pittsburgh's concerns if the Steelers can't find a way to bounce back quickly after the Ravens thumped them in every phase of the game. Tomlin spent two days reviewing tape and still doesn't have an answer for what went wrong.
The offense couldn't hold on to the ball, and the defense looked a half-step behind. Though Tomlin isn't sure his team needed to be humbled, he allows it was done anyway. He expects his players to take the loss personally and figures there will be some anger that will need to be vented when the Steelers return to practice on Wednesday.
"If we channel that anger properly then it can be a good thing," Tomlin said. "If we don't it can be an increasingly frustrating thing. We are aware of that."
The team is also aware it can't afford to let the Ravens get out and run away with the division. Early September is hardly panic time, particularly for arguably the most veteran-laden club in the NFL. Still, whatever momentum was gained during training camp vanished in 60 frustrating minutes.
Asked if there's anything he liked about the game, Tomlin pointed toward the play of punter Dan Sepulveda. Not exactly the kind of talking point he expected a week into the season.
"I think the people that know and competed in this league understand that there is a fine line between drinking wine and squashing grapes," Tomlin said. "Obviously, last weekend we were grape squashers."
Meredith's signing likely means the team won't pursue veteran Flozell Adams, whom the Steelers released shortly after camp began as a cost-cutting move. The 36-year-old Adams started 16 games at right tackle as Colon's replacement last season but would command too high a salary for the team to fit under the cap.
The Seahawks won't present the same problems as Baltimore, though Seattle's loss to San Francisco last week had less to do with its defense than a special teams unit that allowed two returns for scores.
Not that it matters to Tomlin. The Seahawks present a chance to move on, even if he knows even a decisive victory wouldn't erase what happened in Baltimore.
"The reality is the tape tells the story," Tomlin said. "We embrace that as our walking, talking and breathing resume. Unfortunately, it's not something we are proud of. We have to wear it, and we will."
Copyright 2011 by The Associated Press
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Since when did you get go picky??
No matter how one wants to read it, it is clear the time to think about it was some time in the past and not now.
We all knew the right side was weak despite what was being said by the talking heads in Berea.
We rested our hopes on Pashos.
I never though Pashos all that good but I defer to the opinion of Heck, and since he though Pashos was a good play, so be it, but it didn't take much effort to see the guy has been pretty frail the last 2-3 years.
That's a red flag to me when you have a guy who should be in his prime years always on the bench with some sort of injury.
So now that leaves us either having to go with 22 year olds who have never played or scrambling to find 40 year olds who we hope have a few more games in them.
I'd expect to see a lot of 2 TE sets the rest of the way. At least the TE can chip somebody which hopefully allows the tackle time to get out of his stance and maybe get in the way for 3-4 seconds.
not to be picky, but who are these 40 year olds?
Hicks 32
Cousins 27
Last edited by Line Judge; 09/14/11 08:38 AM.
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I was talking about the talk we were looking at guys like Leonard Davis. Not to get the ham sandwich talk going again , but I have a feeling you are talking about a couple. Let's hope not.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hated the loss. Period. But a reminder is in order that a line needs quality time to mesh, and that can take several years, not quarters.
I get this, they're new players to the team. But Hank Fraley came in here after LCB went down, and he immediately was a good player. We got him for a 7th round pick too. I don't want to hear about gelling, get us a RT that knows what he's doing. Where's Damien Woody? He's better than these guys
It's just stupid, I was worried about this all offseason, and it looks like I'm right. Pashos is completely unreliable and we have no one else to step in and play RT. We've had this problem for YEARS, different names and the same stupid problem.
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Make no mistake about it, the offensive line positions are the most important positions on the offense. But at this late date, IMO, the Browns are doing the best they can with a bad situation that sprang up late in camp.
1. No one predicted Steinbach would be lost for the season, just before the regular season started.
2. Our RT Pashos, it looked like he was healthy and ready for the regular season...he goes down with an ankle injury before the last preseason game.
3. Though we like to think of Lauvao as an experienced RG, coming into this season, he had only started one game.
So, the Browns lost two starters and are playing with 2 new starters (one a rookie) and a RG with one start to his credit.
+ new offensive playbook
+ lack of an offseason program
Heckert has made "minimal investments" in the offensive line during his first two years as the Browns GM, drafting Lauvao late in the 3rd round last year and drafting Pinkston in the 5th round this season.
The lack of building the Oline via the draft has come back to bite the Browns square in the butt.
I understand the thinking behind going with Pashos again at RT. He did have a record of durability, starting 16g/2006, 15g/2007, 16g/2008...Pashos broke his shoulder after going to SF and started just one game in 2009.
Obviously the Browns thought Pashos had recovered from the shoulder injury and signed him only to see Pashos go down with an ankle injury after 6 games/3 starts, last season.
But now again, Pashos is dealing with an ankle issue...that is enough for me...he must be replaced next season, hopefully Heckert will "invest" at least a 2nd round pick in a RT.
Lauvao and Pinkston will get their experience this season and the Browns will have to evaluate their play to determine if more needs to be invested in our Oline, via the draft or FA.
I have said it before and will say it again...it does not matter if you have the best offensive killed players (qb, wr, rb) in the NFL...if the Oline can't protect and block, none of those skilled players will perform to their potential...
...and Shurmur can toss his west coast offense out the window, because it does not matter how good your playbook is, if the OLINE does not protect the QB and open holes for the RB, that offense will look like crap.
The success of the offense depends on the offensive line...if anyone should know this...Browns fans should.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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yep, we were all worried about Pashos staying healthy.
one of these years we'll have a healthy and stable OL.
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Neglect? Really? He looks at his roster and has an above AVG to great LT, LG and C who get a lot of money and cap room already...what did you expect? a 1st round RG or RT? 3rd to 5th round is where the value for those positions is...Heckert absolutely did NOT neglect the OL...he has (in PHI) and will always pick an OL in mid-late rounds for depth and development and that's the right thing to do...but looking at the roster he inherited OL really was down on his need list
..and Lauvao and Pinkston were pretty good picks....Lauvao was somewhat a need pick and went off the board where he was supposed to go, maybe even 15-30 picks earlier...Pinkston otoh, who was a very similar propsect was GREAT value...he fell thanks to a very strong draft class...very aware trade up and pick, loved it....and it's paying off already
I agree that trusting Pashos was a mistake...but the 2 guys he drafted were College LTs, both Pinkston and Lauvao were the classic G/RT prospect, so I guess he hoped 1 of them could take over there and so do I...the problem is and was the Steinbach injury...I think Pinkston would have been at RT...now we have to play 2 guys there who arrived in Cleveland 10 days ago...Cousins is an underachiever but I like Hicks, who really at this point is a G-only...I think moving Lauvao or Pinkston to RT and Hicks to G would be the better move, both long and esp. short term
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I'm still ticked we drafted a 4th-string TE with 13 or whatever total catches in college over a potential starting RT in the 4th.
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I'm still ticked we drafted a 4th-string TE with 13 or whatever total catches in college over a potential starting RT in the 4th.
Not to mention, a FB. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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that's what happens in a rebuild. you take the guys that fit your system if they come up and are available, even if its not a position of need right away. they were sitting there, saw a wco fullback, and said "well we will need one of those anyway so lets get him now and thats one less thing to worry about"
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I agree. He knew the need at RT and the risk of Pashos history, but he needed to fix other things first.
I would hope that we attempted to sign McKinnie, but I doubt that we could have convinced him to sign here over Baltimore (not only the better team, but also he is from 'the U' and that team is stacked with 'the U' players)
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Finally someone besides me is willing to say the words Heckert and red flags in the same sentence.. 
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Heckert has made "minimal investments" in the offensive line during his first two years as the Browns GM, drafting Lauvao late in the 3rd round last year and drafting Pinkston in the 5th round this season.
I wouldn't call drafting two starting guards "minimal".
I think both of these guys can be good long term solutions at both guard positions.
Is the OL only as strong as the weakest link? Yes I believe that to be true.
Where most fans worried about not addressing this issue threw FA? Yes, but we all know that FA is a two way street ...do we not?
Where most fans worried about putting all of our eggs in Pashos basket? Yes.
Would I trade Phil Taylor for Anthony Castonzo, James Carpenter or Gabe Carimi? No I would not!
I am concerned with this apparent weakness, but I also know that we could not fix all that was wrong with this teams pedigree in two drafts.
I would much prefer we find a long term solution at RT, then merely another stop gap and I use the term "stop gap" very loosely here.
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I'm still ticked we drafted a 4th-string TE with 13 or whatever total catches in college over a potential starting RT in the 4th.
Wasn't a big fan of the pick at the time...Heckert, like many other GMs, seem to favor potential/higher ceiling over production/what you see is what you get prospects in the 2nd to 4th round area....I know some Philly fans and they always say the 5th was their money round and they had lots of busted 3rd/4th....I don't like it but that seems to be their rationale...and look at our 5th rounders btw compared to our 4ths
At the time of the pick I wanted 1 of DE Acho or LB Matthews...but Pinkston was in my top 5 there already..he really was pretty much the highest ranked OL left at that time, so getting him in the 5th was cool with me after all...just switch the Pinkston and Cameron selections and you'll be fine too 
That said, I think Cameron will turn into fine pass catcher in this Offense going forward...Watson will turn 31 this season and be a FA after 2012 and Moore is fragile and will mis games here and there...Cameron was a boom or bust pick...he either turns into a Graham (how many catches did he have in College?) or Rucker...we will see, but I think that he and Marecic will be productive players
I liked Heckert's 1st draft but this last one was even better, although I hated the Little pick...but the big trade and the 1-2 DL punch were just great...now if he would have picked Cobb over Little and C.Matthews over Cameron this draft would have been PERFECT
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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Legend
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Django, You like the Marecic pick!? 
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Django,
You like the Marecic pick!?
I like the player, but didn't like the value late in the 4th in a very deep class...I wanted Pinkston or 1 of the RBs, J.Rodgers/D.Lewis and liked some CBs like House, Carmichael and Skrine....as with the Mack pick back then: I like the player but not the value...since this was a late 4th it's not as dramatic as a 1st round C but yeah, I think Marecic will be fine...he's a rookie, he needs some time to get everything down but he's a football player and I'm confident he will make the majority of this board look silly
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I'm still ticked we drafted a 4th-string TE with 13 or whatever total catches in college over a potential starting RT in the 4th.
I did like Chris Hariston [Clemson], but I thought he would last threw the 4th round.
He is being groomed to play LT for the Bills possibly as early as next season.
James Brewer would have been the other option, but the book is still out on both of these players, because neither are starting this year.
Brewer is also being groomed for LT.
We don't know if either would or would not have been able to step in this season at RT.
It's still all hind sight as far as the Draft, but those are two players that I would have like to Draft one of.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
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Quote:
James Brewer would have been the other option, but the book is still out on both of these players, because neither are starting this year.
Brewer is also being groomed for LT.
I went into the draft wanting a WR and a OT in the third and fourth rounds... I was hoping for Carpenter in the third, but Brewer was my next choice. I didn't like Pinkston as a tackle (I said repeatedly he looked only like a guard at the senior bowl.) I didn't think we'd be drafting a guard, but it's a good thing we did from a standpoint of need and talent.
I liked that Brewer and Carpenter both had the ability to play either tackle position (as we still have no backup for Thomas) and I didn't think Hairston looked like he could really play RT to me, which is what I primarily wanted an OT for.
Last edited by CleveSteve; 09/14/11 12:00 PM.
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Quote:
So now that leaves us either having to go with 22 year olds who have never played or scrambling to find 40 year olds who we hope have a few more games in them.
I think the FO has made it clear many times that their direction is the former rather than the latter.
We did pick up Hicks and Greco but it seems Pinkston and Lavauo are going to get the nod to start and be allowed to work through their growing pains.
The FA period was very short. I'm not even sure who was available for RT. Pashos is fine this year until we can draft one so long as he's not hurt. But he is hurt and seems always hurt. What made Heckert think he wouldn't be is beyond me but his decision was made. There must be a reason.
I don't know why but I thought when Pinkston was drafted he was expected to man the RT spot. Maybe he's getting his feet wet at guard first. Maybe RG would be the better spot to do that but we've got Lavauo over there and that's where he's been expected to spend his 10 years so there's no sense putting Pinkston there.
I'm afraid we're going to have to go with the Hicks, Cousins rotation whenever Pashos is not available. Sucks to have growing pains but it's better than having old man pains.
Ask me.
*Oh, and I only get picky when I hear so much dribble and nonsense that has no thinking behind it. You don't notice it because if I spent my time referring to each one of them that's all I'd get done.
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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I was talking about the talk we were looking at guys like Leonard Davis.
Not to get the ham sandwich talk going again , but I have a feeling you are talking about a couple.
Let's hope not.
Davis is beyond a ham sandwich at this point.More like a 30 piece bucket of chicken.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Django,
You like the Marecic pick!?
I have a lot of confidence in the FB we drafted in the 4th round. It might have been a little early for a FB, but give him time and I think everyone will be pretty happy.
Marecic (is that how you spell his name?) will be on this team for a loooong time I think. I loved Vickers, but I think this guy is going to work out. He hasn't picked up the NFL tooo quickly, but I have faith that he will.
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