DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Breaking Bad - Seasons 4+

I know we had a thread for the end of season three, but it's been quiet on the BB front here. After watching last night's sode, "Salud", I figured I'd start up a thread to discuss the season up until now and the ending that's only three weeks away.

First off, if you don't already watch this show, START NOW! I don't get excited for TV serial dramas and this one has me spinning. Go grab season's 1-3 off NetFlix (or Flixster), rent off Amazon or buy them straight up. Amazing freaking show. There's a reason why Bryan Cranston won the best lead actor Emmy three years in a row (and Aaron Paul nabbed the supporting Emmy last season).

Ok, so....from here on out, there will be spoilers. So stop reading if you're new or haven't watched "Salud".

I mean it, stop reading.

1. At the end of the episode, it appeared Mike was going to shoot Jesse before he got shot. I'm thinking it was either two reason why they shot the scene that way (and it was intentional). 1. The director was teasing the shot but really had Mike swinging around to shoot the last Cartel guy or 2. Mike wants to kill Jesse because he see Jesse as the new Mike in Gus' eyes.

2. Awesome scene with Jesse telling the Cartel's cook to shove it. He really became "Heisenberg" in this episode. Not sure if that's a good thing or not, but Jesse isn't that little son-like character that Walt is always trying to protect.

3. Walt looks beaten, in more ways than one. The criminal life is really starting to drag him too close to the sun. I question if he's going to stay on the Breaking Bad path. I might see him trying to clean himself...or at least set his relationship with Jesse back to zero.

4. Did we ever confirm if Walt was 100% cancer free from his last appointment? He mentioned he was clean at a dinner party but that seemed like a cover-up to me. And you know, the series started with that plot twist, I doubt it stays in remission. It's the reason he started and it will be used as a reason to keep him going.

5. Skylar and Benneke.....something bad is going to happen there and Walt will find out. Sex and/or the money....and Walt will explode all over everyone.

6. Good to know we have 16 sodes left after this season. Bad news though, they're going to split it into an extended season. So, 8-10 sodes, a long break and then come back for the last. I suppose it could be 2013 until we see the finish. Although, I'm glad they're ending it at 5 seasons. As much as I'd like to see it keep going, they need to wrap the story arc before it becomes tired and played out.

Any help with my questions/comments or other random thoughts out there?

Unfortunately I could not read your thread as I haven't watched Sunday nights episode yet and didn't want to spoil it but just wanted to also say the show is fantastic. I think they just released the first 3 seasons on Netflix Instant Stream over the past week or so.

Sunday night's episode was easily up there in the top 5 best episodes of the whole series. So far, that is. There should be some more blockbuster moments and even bigger ones in the next and final season.

I can't say enough how much I love this show. I tell myself that I'm crazy, that this can't be my favorite show of all time. That it can't be better than LOST or The Sopranos.

But I think it really is. BB's my favorite show (drama, that is) of all time.

Of course I STILL haven't seen The Wire, which I hear is fantastic.

Folks, if you've never see it. Do so. Find it on demand or DVD or online or however you would watch it . . . So good.

Punchsmack,

Bullet point one: No way I thought it looked like Mike was going to do that. I'm 99.9% positive he wasn't. Mike and Gus are ALL about Jesse.

# four? I was thinking about this, myself. I haven't ruled out the cancer being completely gone. Of course now that we've thought of it, I hope it doesn't happen. I don't want to sniff out any twists . . .

Speaking of which, my wife TOTALLY called what was going to happen poolside. As soon as she saw what the gift was, she called it and said "that's why Gus took that pill." I was ticked she blurted it out, cause then I had no clue if I would have called it myself. Even after Gus said Jesse shouldn't be drinking . . .

I totally thought Gus was going to take a leak in the pool . . .

Just have to say that Gus is a total bad ass.

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Bullet point one: No way I thought it looked like Mike was going to do that. I'm 99.9% positive he wasn't. Mike and Gus are ALL about Jesse.

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I thought the same thing until I saw this gif http://i51.tinypic.com/fvx46.gif. Mike's head is turned right at Jesse when the bullet hits him. I don't want to believe it either since Jesse is my favorite character and Mike is my favorite bad guy. They seemed like they would be a good team.

And agreed on Gus being a bad ass. Any guy that folds his clothes before slashing someones throat is a definite bad ass.

And I loved that before he regurgitated the posion he took the time to fold his jacket and put a towel on the floor to keep his knees from getting dirty with the clock ticking on his life.

I'm not sure if Gus smokes but here is a perfect chance for Jesse to slip him that "lucky cigarette" with a very good chance of not being suspected.

Thanks for the gif! I saw it this morning reading the BB forums. I went back to copy the link but couldn't find it. The Breaking Bad site is horrible.

NP.

I found it on IMDB (probably not much better), I didn't even notice that Mike looked in Jesse's direction until I was reading the million threads posted there regarding the subject. I laughed off most of it at first, but then someone posted that gif and it changed my view.

I have to echo what Brownoholic said, that was a great episode. It was one of those when it ended I was like "really an hour just went by?"

What a cliffhanger, Sunday can't get here soon enough

YESSSS i LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEE THIS SHOW!

It keeps me on edge everytime...totally love it.

Man if someone hadn't posted that gif i would have said ur on crack...that does look awful lot like he is about to shoot Jesse...But i think your reasoning might be flawed...It doesn't make sense to kill Jesse, since they can kill walt and keep Jesse as a loyal guy who knows how to make their product. To me at the end of the episode i was more worried about what's going to happen to walt now?
Gus the boss
Mike the muscle
and Jesse the cook
Walt seems extra baggage now?

So i don't get why he would be shooting Jesse

I remember a few episodes ago MIke saying to Gus something to the effect of "the kid thinks he's a hero, you got what you wanted." I don't know what that meant but maybe Mike is feeling threatened as punch suggested.

Walt still does make the purest, which might keep him as a valuable asset. Jesse's only came out to 96%. Remember that's about the number Gale could do and Walt topped it with 99%.

Well, IF the theory of Mike being jealous plays out...it would make sense that Mike would try to off Jesse then. He had just asked Gus if he was ok and noticed he was unconscious.

Ultimately, I think it was more a camera trick to tease us. There's probably nothing more behind it other than to make us think. Deliberate for sure, but nothing of substance.

I was talking with the wife about the show and wondered aloud what the show is about....Walt and Jesse's relationship. That's #1. Walt being the typical dad; expecting growth, being too hard on the kid and willing to throw his life down to protect him. Jesse bing the typical kid; rebellious, no direction and thinking he knows it all. What if Jesse spurns Walt and joins Gus' side? That would crush Walt more than anything. Heck, he called his own son Jesse while drugged up in the last sode.

I had predicted Walt taking over the whole operation from the top at the beginning of Season 4.....but I don't see that now. I'm not really sure where this is going. And I like it.

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Ultimately, I think it was more a camera trick to tease us. There's probably nothing more behind it other than to make us think. Deliberate for sure, but nothing of substance.

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That's what I'm hoping for. I like Mike and Gus about as much as anybody else. Which is odd since i despised their characters until the last 2 seasons.

I'm kind of hoping for it to be one big happy team. But we all know that's not going to happen.

Regarding "Crawl Space"....again, spoilers below.

Wow, talk about turning the entire BB universe upside down.

- Walt can't cook
- Walt can't earn
- Walt is broke
- Hank has a hit out on him
- Gus knows a tip was called into the DEA
- Gus threatened the White family (and you know he wasn't kidding)
- Walt knows Skyler gave most of the money to Beneke
- Beneke is dead
- When is Mike coming back?
- Walt must act fast or people within in family will die!

Walt has two plays the way I see it.....Kill Jesse (or make it appear that he killed him) OR kill Gus. Again, if he doesn't act Gus will kill him and the whole family. Something HUGE has to happen in the next two weeks to calm that problem down.

Ouch.

Best show on TV.

That episode was good enough to be a season finale, thank God it wasn't.

Looks like Walt's last resort is to go back into Heisenberg mode, he kind of had that look in his eye as the camera panned out at the end.

Is Ted dead? We never quite found out for sure but I wouldn't doubt it. His hand did move a little bit.

Amazing episode...perhaps the best single episode of anything I've ever seen.

I would hate to see Saul's B-Team in action. If Ted aint dead, color me shocked. And it's crazy that his check is in the mail . . .

This season is coming to a close with a ton of bangs. The ending of the last one just had my wife and I by the throat . . .

I'm not even going to speculate on how the rest of this season or series as a whole is going to play out. I envision Walt and Hank versus Gus and Mike w/ Jesse caught in the middle, but who knows what the mad geniuses behind have in store for us.

Best show ever . . .

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Best show ever . . .

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Dexter is my favorite show but I have to admit I'm probably looking forward to Breaking Bad this week more than the season premiere of Dexter.

The DVR is going to be burning up that night with Boardwalk Empire on as well.

Looking forward to Dexter. I can almost say I hated the last season, so I think this new one HAS to be better.

Boardwalk Empire hit the ground running. That's an awesome show.

Still like Breaking Bad a lot more than both of those . . .

Wow, just saw last week's episode and it was fantastic! I never expected them to all of a sudden treat Walt like that, especially that taser bit by the silent black guy( I hate that guy). I wonder if Gustavo really cares about Mike or not? Will Walt call the vacuum guy's number? Did he already? I'm so excited, this leading up to a great conclusion!

Yeah, the season will end w/ a bang and then the wait for the final season will feel like it lasts forever . . .

Definitely feels like forever.

I was able to watch ALL of Sopranos on DVD. Straight through. My wife and I would always ask each other, "how did people wait for new seasons???" I think one hiatus was extra long because of contract negotiations too.

Can't wait to start The Wire on DVD. That show is supposed to be awesome too.

Exactly.

Last year when my wife and I watched 'Half Measures' it felt like 7 years instead of 7 days before we could see what happened after Walt said "RUN!". <insert chills here>

So yes, waiting the extended time before Season 4 was awful. And I'm not looking forward to waiting for Season 5 and then also know there will be an extended break in the middle too. Ugh. Oh well, something to look forward to.

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Looking forward to Dexter. I can almost say I hated the last season, so I think this new one HAS to be better.

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The first episode has already leaked and yes I watched it. Couldn't resist.

I'm not a spoiler guy so don't worry about that, but I will say I don't think you're gonna be disappointed with the direction this season is headed.

They really picked an agonizing spot to end that episode.

Yup, it was good and bad. I was hoping to see Walt's homemade explosion go off, even if Gus wasn't killed.

Sooooo...Gus thinks his car was rigged to blow up, he has to figure it was Walt and he has to think Jesse was in on it too. That would mean he'll be trying to take them both out. I don't see that waiting for season 5. Maybe...who knows.

The bigger question is......IF Brock was poisioned with the Ricin, who did it? You want to believe it was Gus, it would be a calculated move to get Jesse to kill Walt BUT.....Walt could have done it knowing Jesse would assume it was him and he'd be able to flip him by using the "Gus has used violence towards kids before and he knew this would be the final straw to get you to sign off on killing me" comment. Vince Gilligan said we'd all learn to dispise Walt by the end of Season 4....so maybe.

Good episode, I hope it's setting up a fantastic season finale. I want to see something major happen.

I haven't read this thread as I don't want to spoil anything, but I just finished up season 1 on Netflix. This is an outstanding show!

I think the kid just stole the cig n smoked up....and jesse just wasn't careful. that or guss did it...remember earlier in the episode he said "proper actions will be taken" or something like that.

The BB Podcast will be up soon....though they don't normally answer much.

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Good episode, I hope it's setting up a fantastic season finale. I want to see something major happen.

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I'm pumped, can't wait.

I normally wait until Monday to watch it but I don't think I'm going to be able to this time.

One minute to go...

What the...

Insane. And still 10 minutes to go.

Sooooo...Season 5 ideas?

- Walt is the man at the top (manufacturing, distribution, laundering, fighting the DEA, essentially he has become Tony Montana)
- Hank gets closer and closer to Walt's secret
- Skyler gets more involved with the side business...and enjoys it
- Walt Jr gets some
- Jesse finds out about the poisoning
- Hank vs Jesse vs Walt in a titanic ending where Walt dies

Ok, one doesn't belong there.

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Walt Jr gets some

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Lol, he probably would've already scored if skyler didn't take away his charger for a pt cruiser.

Holy wow wow. Just watched the last 2 episodes back to back!

INSANE!

***spoilers *** you've been warned *****

My wife hated our last view of Gus. Said the show was totally believable up to that point. Whatever, as a horror / sci-fi geek, I totally accepted it . . . Reminded me that they shouldn't have let Two-Face die at the end of Dark Knight, too . . .

Did anyone else immediately know it was Walt as soon as the poisonous plant was brought up? In the very beginning where he's twirling pistol on the patio table it pointed toward the potted plant on the 3rd spin and they kept the camera on him looking in that direction for just a second too long. Long enough for me to think something was up. Kind of like when whatshisname tripped on that rug . . . foreshadowing . . .

So now Jesse doesn't know that Walt poisoned the kid AND that he let his girlfriend choke to death a few seasons back. Talk about an ANTI-hero . . . Sending the old lady neigbor in the house to see if any potential killers were waiting for him???

How on EARTH can this show only have one season left now??? If they're taking Walt where I think they are, then they could have 2, maybe 3 left!

You know, the Gus face-off scene was over the top and a little unbelievable, but it fit his character and heck, it's a tv show. I was able to enjoy it.

It you rewatch the scene over, someone's leg falls from the ceiling as Gus drops. Funny.

It's odd, there are tons of people saying Gus might still be alive and Walt wasn't the source of the poison despite Vince Gilligan confirming all points. I guess there were a lot of people that didn't think Jesse shot Gayle until they saw the crime scene at the opening of S4.

Great interview with VG


Q.Given that Walt and Jesse know even less about Gus, and don’t know why he was so important that the cartel could not kill him, could their assassination of him come back to haunt them?

A.That’s a good question. We will be getting into that when the writers’ room reopens in November. But I can think of one gentleman who may have a problem with it, who’s a bit closer to home, who is Mike, played by Jonathan Banks. [laughs heartily] Mike may have a problem with what transpired, and I wouldn’t want Mike mad at me, I can tell you that.

Q.I don’t think I’d want Jonathan Banks mad at me, either.

A.No. And I’ve had Jonathan mad at me, and it’s not pleasant.

Q.Was it particularly difficult to say goodbye to a character as compelling as Gus, and to Giancarlo Esposito, who’s been so dominant in his portrayal of him?

A.It was very hard. We talked for not just hours. We talked for days on end, questioning ourselves and re-questioning ourselves as to, were we doing the right thing? But it just felt like it was time. I was being facetious before when I spoke of “Highlander,” but it really is true. If Gustavo Fring is in Walt’s world, they can never be partners. They are similar personalities in the sense that one of them has to be on top, and at the end of the day, the show is about Walter White and his journey from Mr. Chips to Scarface. In that regard, he has to, with every season, get a little further down that path. He really was under the thumb of this character for the entire season – more than a season now. And while I think the audience will miss Gus greatly, I think also there is a satisfaction to be gleaned from Walt persevering and succeeding.

Q.Did the effects crew from “The Walking Dead” help out with the scene where Gus meets his demise?

A.Indeed we did have great help from the prosthetic effects folks at “The Walking Dead,” and I want to give a shout-out to Greg Nicotero and Howard Berger, and KNB EFX, those two gentlemen and their company, because their shop did that effect. And then that was augmented by the visual effects work of a guy named Bill Pulaski and his crew, who digitally married a three-dimensional sculpture that KNB EFX created with the reality of the film scene. So you can actually see into and through Gus’s head in that final reveal. It’s a combination of great makeup and great visual effects. And it took months to do.

Q.Months?

A.Really, months. That one shot where the explosion happens, and then you dolly in on Gus, is actually two shots: the explosion happened in one take, and then the shot revealing Gus – it took me 19 takes to get it right. But we did use Take 19. That was no fault of the actors. That was me being a little persnickety as a director. The big, bravura part of the effect is obviously Gus’s face, what’s left of it, but to me it’s just as amazing how the visual effects guys married the two shots together so that there’s literally no seam between. There’s smoke, but you don’t see the cut in between. It’s just amazing what they’re capable of doing these days.

Q.What about the closing shot of the episode, the poisonous plant growing ominously in Walt’s backyard. Is it meant to suggest the possibility that he might have poisoned Brock, or is it meant to say he definitely did it?

A.To me it is fairly definitive. But there’s the old Billy Wilder quote, which I am going to misquote, that if you give the audience 2 plus 2 and let them add it up to 4 themselves, they’ll love you forever. I abide by that. The audience is plenty smart, and I like giving them as little as possible, and letting them do the math themselves. It’s such a shocking moment, that you find out the full badness, if you will, of Walter White, and you learn, truly, what he’s capable of: these monstrous acts, up to and including poisoning a child to further his and his family’s survival. To me, a moment like that is best told delicately. It’s best to not hit the audience over the head with it but to let them do the math themselves.

Q.I have to say that this season finale almost felt like a series finale, with all of the story lines that it appears to wrap up. Was that by design?

A.That is on purpose. We weren’t sure that we would have a fifth season when we were plotting out the end of Season 4. So we wanted to make the end of Season 4 as satisfying and as complete as possible, not knowing what the future would hold. Having said that, there are a couple of big, outstanding questions still in play. But I agree with you, if the show had not gone on past the end of Season 4 – although I’m very happy to say that it indeed will – but if it weren’t to go forward, I think I could be satisfied on some level, by that episode.

Q.Does that suggest that in at least one reality, there could have been a happy ending for Walt?

A.Yes. Well, now that you’ve put that way – happy for Walt, unhappy for pretty much everyone else around him. [laughs] That’s what he does, that’s the effect he has on people, come to think of it.

Q.Back in March, we learned that AMC’s negotiations to renew “Mad Men” had grown contentious, and when they were resolved, its show runner, Matthew Weiner, said he would be ending the series. Then a few months later, we find out there’s a difficult negotiation to extend “Breaking Bad,” after which you said you’re ending your series. Is there a pattern emerging here? Are these negotiations so frustrating that you’d rather wrap up your shows than have to keep going back to the table?

A.Not really. I can’t speak to the “Mad Men” situation, although their timeline is a lot longer than ours – they’re going to end the show in three more seasons. I can only speak for myself, and AMC and Sony have been great to work with. Nobody else in town would have done this show, and I will be forever grateful to both companies for letting me put it on the air. But really, “Breaking Bad” was intended to be a finite story from the get-go. It was designed to be closed-ended and not have even the possibility of going on indefinitely. It’s really incumbent upon us to bring it to as satisfying a conclusion as possible. And the only way we’ll have a chance at doing that is to know exactly when it is we’re going to end, and also have that ending not be too far off in the future. Our studio, I think, in their heart of hearts, would have liked the show to go on longer than it will go on. Because this is a business, first and foremost, and the television business is intended to make money. And you only really start to make money with more episodes under your belt. But at the end of the day, this was nothing other than me wanting to end the show with as much quality as we began with. And that’s truly why we have 16 more, and out.

Q.Does that imply you didn’t get as many episodes as you wanted to wrap up the series?

A.No, honestly, no. I would have been happy, for instance, with 13, one more full season. I think 16’s great – 16’s probably even better than 13. We get one more full season and three extra, which is cherries on top. There are certain things that need to be wrapped up, so that we can conclude the show the right way. I was one of loudest voices saying, “I don’t have that much more story left in me here.” I should add to that by saying I don’t want this show to end. For me, this is the most creatively satisfying job that I have ever had, or that I will likely ever have, and I will probably be in a fetal position on the day that it all ends. I will miss it intensely. I also don’t want to tread water for seasons on end and have people begin to say, “God, ‘Breaking Bad,’ that used to be a really good show – is that thing still on the air?” That would kill me. I would much rather go out a little bit early and miss it fondly for the rest of my life.

Q.Were you really being squeezed by AMC on the number of new episodes it was willing to order? I think that’s what left so many people dumbfounded, that here’s this critically acclaimed, brand-defining show, and it sounds like the network wants to rush it off the air.

A.Listen, the thing I’ve learned since I’ve started working in this business. You don’t really want to see how the sausage is made. That’s just in every negotiation, not just the ones I’ve been dealing with but every one I’ve been a party to. In the movie business or the TV business, there’s a certain amount of gamesmanship and horse trading, and it’s part of the way the job is done. I’d prefer to not even know about it most of the time. I was basically cutting the last few episodes of Season 4 of “Breaking Bad,” and I would hear occasionally from my agents, telling me where things stood, and half the time when the call came through, I’d be like: Oh, God, do I have to hear about this now? [laughs] You guys know I want to wrap it up within about another season, you know the parameters that I’m hoping for. Just wake me when it’s over.

Q.I know it’s foolish to ask how you’re going to end the series, but do you have a game plan yet for how it’s going to end?

A.I’d love to say I did. I depend so much on my six writers, and we’re going to get together again in mid-November and open up a writers’ room, and I’m looking forward to that. I should be thinking about it right now. I should be daydreaming about it or playing with a few puzzle pieces, trying to lock ‘em into place here. But I really find my brain works best when I have the six of my writers with me and we can hash it out together as a group. I guess the best way to put it is, I have hopes and dreams for these characters. But I don’t have anything plot-wise. I don’t have anything hard and fast figured out. I know there are certain big, outstanding questions or issues to deal with before we put on our last episode. But other than that, where it all is going to head, I look forward to seeing it, same as the audience does.

Q.Does that mean you could have a flash of inspiration between now and November that could completely alter how “Breaking Bad” will wrap up?

A.Absolutely. I don’t want to sound too loosey-goosey about it, because I think the more time you have to plot out your story, the better off you’ll be. But we try to combine the best of both possibilities, which is to say we have enough lead time to question every possible permutation of story and reason out all the different ways we could tell the story and go with the best one. But also, with that kind of scenario, we have the possibility to suddenly get some 11th-hour inspiration and take things in a different direction. Television is not usually an arena in which you get the time to really ponder things. And that’s a big reason why this show has been such a blessing and such a source of enjoyment for me, it’s because I get to do just that.