DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and the Draft

EXACTLY. Just having a 1st Rd QB or a "good" QB isn't the answer. Having the RIGHT 1st Rd QB, or an elite QB is the answer.

The exceptions to the rule are the young Roethlisberger-led Steelers and the Jets with Sanchez...only because the rest of their teams are SO good.

Like I said, teams have 2 options to be annual Super Bowl contenders:

1) Have a truly "elite" NFL QB. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Roethlisberger. That's it. Stafford and Ryan could end up in this group.

2) Have an elite OLine AND Defense AND Running game AND play making receivers AND a great HC and then a game manager at QB.

The problem is, there's exactly 1 QB in the 2012 draft who is good enough to be considered a possible elite QB. Those guys don't grow on trees. It's why I'd be so willing to get him at ALL COSTS. He's the "right guy" who you just can not pass on.

It's also why I think if we CAN'T get him, we might as well just roll with Colt for another year and continue building around him in the mold of option #2.

I cant agree with this.

I suppose my only question is how long do we go with Colt.

What I mean is that I am a supporter of giving him time in CASE he progresses even over the next few seasons and maybe in 4 or 5 years could be a drew brees or even a Matt Hasselbeck and lead us to a superbowl.

I also am aware of the Frye situation and sticking with a guy for TOO long... but if we actually have a solid front office who knows how to draft ... I almost think not having the elite QB while adding talent could absolutely get us in a great position.

Even if Colt only wins us 8 games a season next year ... but we add our picks and talent in 2012 PLUS have the option of either giving him more weapons OR going after a QB in 2013 ... then any QB we add (hopefully the franchise guy) could come into our team with a completed yet still young line - a few weapons at the receiving core and also some weapons in the backfield. PLUS that guy (or Colt) would have a legit defense that can hold teams to 2 or 3 scores per game.

Getting a QB now might be great in the long term but it also means that QB comes in without as much talent around him. Whether we get talent THEN the QB ... or the other way around ... it's still going to take time. The only thing I am worried about is how much we give up for a guy who only PROJECTS as a great player.

You can bet that if the Colts believe in Luck they won't trade him away ... especially after seeing the night/day with and without manning.

Miami went 1-15 a few years back ... and after Parcells rebuilt them they are right back into an 0-5 season so far. They might be FINE with trading with Cleveland (or whoever) and taking a Barkely or a Jones if it means they get 3 #1's and a #2 and a #3 as well .... or maybe they won't even think about trading him away if they believe they have some pieces but need the franchise guy ... plus you still have Seattle, Denver, Washington, Minnesota?, who could all be in the sweepstakes or at least trying to outbid each other for the guy.

Still a long way out and I'd rather just grab a few gamechangers and give Colt a real offseason as the starter plus have a few real weapons.

I am going to say something that will send peoples' heads spinning ...... but we need to keep grabbing QBs when we have the chance until we find that right guy.

Having a 1st round pick in Claussen ..... a guy who "might develop", didn't stop the Panthers from Taking Newton. It was a risky pick, but he looks like a game changer at QB.

The Chargers had a guy in Brees who, at that point, "might develop". They had a choice between re-signing him, or turning the reins over to the next guy they drafted high in Rivers. They gave Rivers the team, and never looked back. Brees is a great QB, but the Chargers haven't suffered at the position.

The 49'ers, many years ago, has Joe Montana. They were able to acquire a guy they thought could be great in Steve Young. They did so, and when Montana started getting old, they turned the team over to Young and he took them to more Super Bowls.

This year the draft gave teams 4 1st round QBs, Newton, Locker, Gabbart, and Ponder.

2010 gave us 2 1st rounders, Bradford and Tebow.

2009 gave us Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman.

2008 gave us Ryan and Flacco.

2007 gave us Russell.


There aren't a ton of high caliber guys available, so if you can get one you think is special, you better jump when you have the chance. Russell was a flat out bust on this list ..... but the rest are either rookies, starters, or both.

Besides, QBs with potential always have upside. The Eagles were able to trade Kolb, who was underwhelming in his Eagles' appearances. The Bengals robbed the Raiders for Palmer. Teams with an abundance of quality QBs can always fleece teams desperate for a QB.

I agree with everything you have said.

I disagree with there being only one quarterback good enough to win a Super Bowl. But I do agree with the general premise.

There will be 4 maybe 5 QBs gone in the first. To say 1 is gonna win a SB and the others will not is just foolish. The right guy in the right system with the right compliment will give you a chance for a superbowl. Nothing more than a chance.

Nation's top prospects beginning to separate from rest of pack

By Rob Rang
NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst
Oct. 18, 2011Tell Rob your opinion!



Halfway through the college football regular season, the elite prospects in country are beginning to separate from the rest of the pack.

There are some -- Mississippi State running back Vick Ballard, for example -- who started the season hot, but have since cooled off.
More on NFL Draft


Others, such as Texas A&M wide receiver Jeff Fuller, haven't been the consistent force they had been in previous seasons.

The news is all disappointing.

For every player who has surprisingly struggled or succumbed to injury -- such as Florida State offensive tackle Andrew Datko -- others have stepped up their level of play. South Carolina cornerback Stephon Gilmore, Georgia tight end Orson Charles and North Carolina linebacker Zach Brown are examples.

Creating a "Big Board" at this point in the year isn't necessarily designed to predict the first 32 picks of the 2012 NFL Draft. With a full season, all-star games, individual workouts and interviews each playing critical roles in determining a player's final grade, much will change between now and April.

1. Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford*: In 12 years of scouting professionally, Luck is my highest graded player. Second on the list? Ndamukong Suh. Third? Calvin Johnson. Get the idea how good I think this guy will be?

2. Matt Barkley, QB, Southern Cal*: Barkley doesn't have Luck's size, athleticism or arm strength. No one does. Barkley is still a top-notch prospect in his own right. In a typical draft he would be generating No. 1 overall buzz.

3. Matt Kalil, OT, Southern Cal*: The 6-7, 295-pound Kalil was never beaten by speed and dominant, at times, as a drive blocker against Cal. He did get beat inside occasionally.

4. Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State*: Blackmon ultimately won't get drafted this high -- there are too many questions about his straight-line speed -- but he's virtually unstoppable at this level and will prove to be a legit No. 1 option in the NFL.

5. Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama*: Bigger, stronger and faster than his former teammate and 2009 Heisman Trophy winner Mark Ingram, Richardson won't have to wait until the end of the first round to hear his name called.

6. Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina: As physically imposing as they came, Coples' lack of burst off the edge might mean he'll never be a star pass rusher in the NFL, but his strength and size (6-6, 285) could make him a matchup nightmare.

7. Brandon Thompson, DT, Clemson: At 6-2, 300 pounds, Thompson lacks the size most scouts prefer from a top-10 defensive tackle. His combination of power and quickness, however, has made him virtually unblockable this season.

8. Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa*: He has NFL size (6-6, 300 pounds) and impressive athleticism, giving him the look of a top-10 pick.

9. 'Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama*: Physical, fast and athletic, Kirkpatrick has the athletic traits scouts look for in a top-10 prospect. To ultimately be selected this high, however, he'll need to play with more consistency.

10. Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama: As anyone who watched Jenkins play for Florida might have expected, Jenkins has been a star at the D-II level for North Alabama. Scouts have plenty of concerns about his maturity, but few about his ability.

11. Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford*: An athletic left tackle who has capably protected Andrew Luck's blindside. Looks smaller than his listed 6-6, 304 pounds and may lack the physicality for some schemes.

12. Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame: Floyd's talent has never been the question. At times, he's been unstoppable. To earn a first-round selection, he must prove to scouts he has matured, especially off the field.

13. Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma*: Demonstrating greater poise and accuracy against Texas than he had in previous big games, Jones may be on the verge of legitimizing his hype as a top-10 prospect.

14. Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina*: Scouts have reservations about Jeffery's straight-line speed, but his size, physicality and body control have dominated SEC competition -- and that speaks volumes.

15. Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska: Finally back to health, Dennard is showing signs of being the physical shutdown press corner that led some scouts to grade him this season as the country's elite senior prospect at any position.

16. Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU*: I'll be the first to admit that I chalked up some of Claiborne's big plays last season to playing opposite Patrick Peterson. He's been even better this season, however, and possesses the quick feet and sticky hands usually reserved for wideouts.

17. Billy Winn, DT, Boise State: Kellen Moore gets all of the hype, but Winn is clearly Boise State's best pro prospect. Winn has been impressive against top competition and only needs to play with more consistency to warrant a first-round selection.

18. Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia: Glenn struggled in the opener against Boise State, but has rewarded faith in him since with much improved play at left tackle. He may not be able to remain outside in the NFL, but looks like a possible future Pro Bowl candidate on the inside.

19. Manti Te'o, ILB, Notre Dame*: Instinctive, physical and athletic enough to beat backs to the edge, as well as remain on the field on third down, Te'o has emerged as the country's best all-around middle linebacker.

20. Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin*: Rarely does an underclassman center deserve mention in the top 20 of a Big Board, but Konz is special. His size and strength inside and fluidity blocking at the second level could allow him to join the Pouncey twins, Alex Mack (Cleveland Browns) and Eric Wood (Buffalo Bills) as the fifth center drafted in the first round over the past four drafts.

21. David DeCastro, OG, Stanford*: One veteran scout traveling from Stanford characterized DeCastro as "the best guard I've seen in a long time." Like everyone else on that offense, he's aided by Andrew Luck, but there is no doubt DeCastro has top NFL talent.

22. Jayron Hosley, CB, Virginia Tech*: At 5-10, 170 pounds, Hosley certainly lacks the frame scouts prefer, but his instincts, quick feet and ball skills make him arguably the top cover corner in the country.

23. Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina*: Not the caliber of ball-hawk some on the list are, Gilmore is one of the sound tacklers and aggressive run defenders of the group. Some view him as a potential candidate to move to safety.

24. Luke Kuechly, ILB, Boston College*: Kuechly's instincts and open-field tackling skills are impressive, but he's not as stout as scouts would prefer for playing inside in the NFL and may lack the athleticism to make the switch to outside. Some scouts believe Kuechly is one of the country's most overrated pro prospects.

25. Orson Charles, TE, Georgia*: Charles lacks the size at 6-3, 242 pounds of the traditional tight end, but his athleticism, reliable hands and surprising physicality as a blocker makes him my top-rated prospect at the position.

26. Courtney Upshaw, ILB, Alabama: Upshaw only recorded two tackles against Ole Miss -- but those two were sacks. Instinctive and physical, he's a top-notch ILB for the 3-4 scheme and some 4-3 clubs like his potential as a defensive end.

27. Alameda Ta'Amu, DT/NG, Washington: Despite limited skills as a pass rusher, this 6-3, 330-pounder's ability to disrupt interior rushing lanes could make him a first-round pick.

28. Zach Brown, OLB, North Carolina: An extraordinary athlete still learning the nuances of the position, Brown has demonstrated improved instincts and physicality this season, emerging as North Carolina's most consistent defender.

29. Jerel Worthy, DT, Michigan State: After struggling with consistency the first quarter of the season, Worthy has played considerably better, including disrupting Michigan quarterback Denard Robinson on multiple occasions last Saturday. Welcome back to the Big Board, Mr. Worthy.

30. Cliff Harris, CB, Oregon: Finally earning his way back onto the field and grabbing consistent playing time, Harris recorded his first interception of 2011 against Arizona State Saturday. Last season, he led the Pac-10 in this category. Harris is slight, but his coverage and ball skills are top notch.

31. Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M: Scouts can't help but be disappointed in the lack of big plays turned in by Tannehill and the entire Aggie offense in two colossal second-half letdowns against Oklahoma State and Arkansas, but he turned that around against Baylor with a career high six touchdown passes. With only 11 career starts to date, it is easy to look past his inconsistencies and instead imagine his bright future.

32. Vontaze Burfict, ILB, Arizona State*: Burfict is an enigma. His intensity, penchant for the big play and timing as a pass rusher make him a legitimate first-round prospect, but he's not the stats-monster his hype would lead you to believe. The junior could leave early, but scouts warn he's a classic boom-or-bust prospect. web page

Ugh don't get me started on Rang.

Rob knows his stuff, one of the best out there.

He follows way too closely to the pack. Just the fact that he thinks Cordy Glenn is a first round pick...

What about DraftTek , Deep . . . ?

1 Andrew Luck Stanford 6'4" 235 QB
2 Quinton Coples North Carolina 6'6" 278 DE43/OLB34
3 Alshon Jeffery South Carolina 6'4" 233 WR
4 Matt Kalil USC 6'6" 295 LOT
5 Landry Jones Oklahoma 6'4" 230 QB
6 Justin Blackmon Oklahoma State 6'1" 212 WR
7 Trent Richardson Alabama 5'11" 224 RB
8 Dre Kirkpatrick Alabama 6'2" 192 CB
9 Vontaze Burfict Arizona State 6'3" 245 SILB/WILB
10 Jonathan Martin Stanford 6'6" 305 LOT
11 Jerel Worthy Michigan State 6'3" 305 DT43
12 Matt Barkley USC 6'2" 220 QB
13 Brandon Thompson Clemson 6'2" 308 DT43
14 Brandon Jenkins Florida State 6'3" 254 OLB34
15 Luke Kuechly Boston College 6'2" 235 WILB/SILB
16 Alfonzo Dennard Nebraska 5'10" 205 CB
17 Alameda Ta'amu Washington 6'3" 335 DT34/DT43
18 Ryan Broyles Oklahoma 5'11" 187 WR
19 Billy Winn Boise State 6'3" 295 DE43/DE34
20 LaMichael James Oregon 5'9" 185 RB
21 Morris Claiborne LSU 6'0" 178 CB
22 Zach Brown North Carolina 6'2" 230 OLB43
23 Levy Adcock Oklahoma State 6'5" 322 ROT/LOT
24 T.J. McDonald USC 6'2" 205 FS
25 Josh Chapman Alabama 6'1" 315 DT34/DT43
26 Jared Crick Nebraska 6'4" 285 DE34/DE43
27 Andrew Datko Florida State 6'6" 321 ROT/LOT
28 Courtney Upshaw Alabama 6'2" 268 OLB34/SILB
29 Cordy Glenn Georgia 6'5" 348 OG/ROT
30 Chase Minnifield Virginia 6'0" 188 CB
31 Mark Barron Alabama 6'2" 218 SS
32 Donte Paige-Moss North Carolina 6'4" 258 OLB34/DE43
33 Zebrie Sanders Florida State 6'5" 307 LOT ROT -106 +79
34 Janoris Jenkins North Alabama 5'10" 182 CB
35 Michael Floyd Notre Dame 6'3" 228 WR
36 Kheeston Randall Texas 6'5" 298 DE34/DT43
37 Ryan Tannehill Texas A&M 6'4" 220 QB
38 Juron Criner Arizona 6'4" 212 WRP WR
39 Devin Taylor South Carolina 6'6" 250 DE43/OLB34
40 Marcus Forston Miami (FL) 6'3" 300 DT43
41 Stephon Gilmore South Carolina 6'1" 194 CB
42 Kelechi Osemele Iowa State 6'5" 347 OG ROT
43 Ray Ray Armstrong Miami (FL) 6'4" 216 SS
44 Montee Ball Wisconsin 5'11" 218 RB
45 Stephen Hill Georgia Tech 6'5" 200 WR
46 Nico Johnson Alabama 6'3" 245 WILB/OLB43
47 Mike Adams Ohio State 6'6" 320 ROT/LOT
48 Dwayne Allen Clemson 6'4� 255 TE
49 T.Y. Hilton Florida Int'l 5'10" 182 WR
50 Cliff Harris Oregon 5'11" 180 CB

I enjoy DraftTek immensely. Their draft simulator is awesome fun and after the first of the year they update their positional rankings, Big Board and Mock Drafts more often than a lot of places. I also like that their Mock Draft isn't based on the opinions of one guy but rather a consensus of individuals. I actually help them out every now and then.

You just have to be careful though and not take everything they say as gold, because while I like that their rankings and mocks are based on multiple people's opinions...they aren't all "experts" by a far stretch. Each team has a few contributors for that matter. It's not unusual for them to have a couple guys ranked COMPLETELY out in left field. Also...their big boards tend to take some time to get sorted out with all the different opinions and inputs. By draft time they're pretty spot on but their early rankings can have some doozies. They'll completely miss guys here and there and completely whiff on others.

They also use their online simulator to do a live re-sim DURING the draft. After each pick they re-sim and give the expected upcoming draft results. Tons of fun.

So like I said, all in all, I enjoy the site and visit it often.

I also really like Scott Wright at nfldraftcountdown.

Cool, nice write up there . . .

I also like draftcountdown. Their message board is the only football (heck, sports) message board I go to outside of DawgTalk . . .

I like walter fottball, http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php they update their 3 round mocks about every 5 days, they even have future mocks there too

I like: http://draftbreakdown.com/category/mock-drafts

but they have this lazy writer Wes who hasn't even bothered to put up his 2012 mock yet

There are some rankings there that I like and some that I don't. At this point there is still a wide range of opinions and guys are rising and falling faster than it's possible to keep track of. It's hard to watch every guy every week and know how well he's playing.

no logo: I don't write there anymore. I've moved on to Bleacher Report as a featured columnist. It doesn't sound impressive due to Bleacher Report's history, but BR is now hiring people on full time and the majority of the featured articles are done by paid writers.

Brownoholic, I like Scott but I know him pretty well and don't hold him in as high of esteem as some others. For one, he doesn't even post his real rankings. He uses a combination of his rankings and the consensus rankings, and posts that. That seems ridiculous to me. This is also a guy who works on the draft full time, yet he doesn't post scouting reports.

Add in the fact that Scott loved Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen (had Clausen ahead of Bradford) and it's kind of meh. The forums there are great though, and I occasionally post there. Some posters are morons, but those guys usually get ripped on pretty hard.

I know Shane P. Hallam really well, and he's a great guy. He writes occasional articles and features there.

Basic summary: If you want draft info, ask me. If you don't like me or think I'm stupid (understandable), go to draftcountdown.

My first mock of the year.


1. Robert Griffin, QB, Baylor - Not a huge fan of his going into the NFL but his skill set fits the offense we want to run.

1. Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU - Reminds me of Haden

2. Sean Spence, LB, Miami - Size is concern but plays fast and tackles very well.

3. Vinny Curry, DE, Marshall - Size fits our defense and he has speed.
4. Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU - Nice size, good pass blocker.

4. AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois - Very underated

5. Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor - My sleeper of this years draft, knows RG3

6. Chris Rainey, RB, Florida - Provides home run ability.

7. Amini Silatolu, OG, Midwestern State - Depth

That is false.

Manning was a prodigy the moment he stepped foot in Knoxville. Ryan Leaf gained popularity later in his career at WSU.

After what the Bengals got for Carson Palmer what do you think Luck's Price is now assuming a team gets the pick who wants to trade it?

My best scenario is the Broncos to get the pick leaving Elway in a terrible bind. Cut Tebow and Draft Luck which fans would go nuts, maybe revolt, or Luck would hopefully throw a tantrum and say he wouldnt play for the Broncos which forces Elway to trade him. Even if the Browns didnt get him I would be pretty happen with those scenarios.

I don't see the issue there. Both Elway and the fans would want Luck. It sounds like Fox, Elway and company are looking to get rid of Tebow anyway.

I think Peen's head would explode.

Deep - when you get a chance will you give a comparison of the top Qb's coming out next year? Luck, Jones, Barkley are the given. It would be nice to include Gibson, Foles, and Cousins. I would personally be interested in hearing about Lindley and it sounds like people on this board would like info on Tannehill.

Any of those silly to include? Did I miss anyone?

Obviously no rush seeing as we are just into week 7 of the season. It might be worth starting yet another Qb thread rather than trying to fit it into an existing thread.

Why don't we jus have a year round draft forum?

you missed Brock Osweiler

(and DJ would like Weeden included I suppose)

That would be awesome.

I usually end up being banned when I ask lol. All you get is lies and nonsense anytime you mention a draft forum.

I know almost nothing about Osweiler except that he is at Arizona State (and I had to look that up) but if it is felt that he belongs in the discussion so be it. As for Weeden, I like him but think his age will be an issue that knocks him out of 1st round consideration. And to keep the list manageable I would like to try to keep it to Qb's with the potential to be picked in the 1st round.

I too would love to have a draft forum year round. This is the time of year that we can talk about prospects and then watch them on Saturdays. Example - Osweiler. I know nothing about him but if I get the chance to watch an ASU game I will, and I will pay extra attention to him. Not something I would have done without No Logo's suggestion.

Let me preface by saying that I don't really like doing comps and I'm not really good at them either. Also let me add that these comps aren't me saying that the player will be as good as whom they are compared to, but that they have similar styles of play. With that said...

Luck - This is virtually impossible. I'm going to go retro and say Steve Young. Luck is a good athlete with great accuracy and intelligence. He does not, however, have an overly strong arm.

Jones - Tom Brady. Similar size, throws a great deep ball and has a strong arm. Plays in a spread but isn't nearly as intelligent or accurate.

Barkley - I really don't like this one, but I'll go with a slightly less accurate Drew Brees. Barkley is really accurate, really smart and not very tall. Good but not a rocket arm.

Osweiler - Flacco. Big with a rocket arm and huge upside.

Griffin - This is tough. Griffin is small, fast, a great runner and accurate. He doesn't have a great arm though. The closest comparison I have is Randall Cunningham. Meh.

Tannehill - I have nothing here. I'll just say that he is big, fast and accurate. I'm worried about the mental part. He needs to do everything a bit more quickly. I will apologize to Mourg here and admit I'm seeing what he was earlier. He's good.

I'll try to get to the others later.

I think Griffin doesn't have a rocket, but it is definitely good enough. He is really tough to evaluate. People compare him to Vick but they really aren't the same.

I think I have reached the same conclusion. But like you said, he's tough to evaluate and I need to watch more.

Its cool bro we each watch different teams more often than others. I like Mike Sherman's A&M team, they are just fun to watch. Tannehill just keeps growing by leaps and bounds as a quarterback thanks to Mike Sherman. Honestly, I am starting to wonder if he isn't the #2 QB in this class by season's end.

I gotta think with A&M running this same Mike Holmgren offense, Tannehill will be really high on our boards. I got a very strong feeling on this one.