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http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/32207/upon-further-review-browns-3Colt McCoy delivered the game-winning touchdown pass, but it was the Browns' defense that provided the game-saving moment. After two 15-yard penalties (one for celebrating the touchdown and the other on a horse-collar tackle on the kickoff), the Browns set up the Dolphins at the Cleveland 47-yard line with 36 seconds remaining. Miami needed just 14 yards to set up a potential game-winning, 50-yard field goal. But the Browns defense forced Chad Henne to throw three incomplete passes to start that drive before safety Mike Adams intercepted the fourth-down pass over the middle. "They did some things that you need to do when offensively we weren't quite clicking," Browns coach Pat Shurmur said of his defense. "At the end there, to spot them 30 yards in penalties and then shut them down ... that's great stuff." STAT THAT STICKS: Eleven sacks by the Browns this season. That's the second-most in the NFL, which is a big improvement for a defense that had the eighth-fewest in the league last season. OVERHEARD: “I think the greatest statistics in this league are wins and losses. I don’t think [McCoy] cares about his completion percentage. You win the game, so that’s all our team cares about anyway. He just stayed composed and made a lot of good plays. He was just very vibrant and upbeat and you could see that pouring out of him in his eyes. He made it happen for us.” Rookie wide receiver Greg Little on McCoy, who was 19-of-39 for 210 yards. LOOKING AHEAD: The Browns (2-1) play host to the Tennessee Titans (2-1), who have won two straight games but might have lost their top receiver, Kenny Britt, to a season-ending knee injury.
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That's a nice stat, but it only tells one side of the story. Jauron should be getting big props from fans and the media for getting the most out of a defense that is still very limited in terms of skill. He's getting pressure with blitzes, but this defensive unit lives by the mantra "Live by the sword, die by the sword." We'll get some sacks, but we'll give up some huge plays.
I think Jauron was a helluva get by Heckert and Walrus.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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it's just a stat, and i know if you comb over stats long enough, you can make them say anything. however, this stat makes me happy. we have been terrible in the sack department the past couple years.
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“I think the greatest statistics in this league are wins and losses."
x2.
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Vey limited defensively?
The only real place I feel we are limited defensively is at linebacker. Secondary and DL are both very talented.
you had a good run Hank.
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I think Sheldon "downtown" Brown is about Toast. I am hoping Skrine can break in fast.
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While it is nice to see, because the memory of years where we just dreamed of getting a single sack in a game is still rather fresh... it means rather little by itself.
If a high number of sacks automatically equaled a win, this would be great.
However, we're terrible against the run (like, 29th in the league) which means that a competent running team can get first downs against us all day long.
I would say that this is definitely a big part of why we have the third best Passing & 7th best Receiving defense in the league, though.
If nothing else, it is definitely progress, and that is always welcome.
If we can tighten up the Run D a bit, we're going to be in great shape.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Vey limited defensively?
The only real place I feel we are limited defensively is at linebacker. Secondary and DL are both very talented.
As Purp noted, we're terrible against the run. It's not as though teams have huge leads against us and they are simply cramming the ball down our throats. We were in all these games. It'd also be far too easy to point to the 'backers and say they are the reason we aren't good against the run. Watching replays of the game shows that our DT's aren't clogging the middle as well as people think. Furthermore, while Sheard is getting all these props for his rush ability, the truth as shown in replays exposes his lack of ability to hold up at the point of attack. He's a very undersized DE, and he's a rookie. He shows good ability when it's time to just turn the corner and head up field. In that regard he's Kamerion Wimbley 2.0, where he can get there on obvious passing downs, but can't hold up against the run. Mitchell is the same way.
I'm also not enamored with what I've seen out of Sheldon. He looks like he's lost a step this year. His age is makes such a fear a consideration.
We have iffy linebackers and our defensive front four aren't good against the run. That's limited talent. Can Sheard and Mitchell become good against the run? It's entirely possible, but right now, they aren't. Same goes for our DT's.
It's easy to gloss over our weaknesses when we're winning. When we lose, they become topics of conversation.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The one great thing about this is that it is definitely a Passing league today... so stopping the pass is a GREAT thing, and when you look at it like that, it makes more sense to focus first on stopping the pass than the run.
Our DT's can get blown up pretty good... and I think part of that is that our DE's don't command anything more than a 1-on-1 because they're so damned light. In the run game, a TE can block our DE's just fine. Add in that they just suck at setting an edge and our LB's (minus DQ) really ARE slow as heck and we are what we are - a terrible run defense.
In each of the three games, on the average, the opposing OL is up in our grills with the RB getting 2 yds before he even has any contact on most plays.
Most all stops that we have for less than that come when we gamble and shoot a gap and nail the RB before he gets going.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I did see some good signs in Sheard. Rewatching the game yesterday, I can't remember the run play (it may have been the one where Bush was downed behind the line by TJ Ward), but Sheard went against the grain of the O Line and threw his man to the ground. I don't know how great he is at the point of attack overall since I haven't paid too much attention, but I think his biggest problem is overzealousness, which I don't know if I even want to correct. He'll often go upfield and completely overrun the RB. I thought our LB were much more of a liability against the run. I saw some plays where Gocong looked like he had cement shoes and other plays where he ran so quickly he overran the play and looked like Andra Davis 2.0. Jackson just does not appear to be strong enough. Also, I would say it's good to have you back, but I'm not a liar. 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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That's a nice stat, but it only tells one side of the story.
Yes Negative nancy 
Who cares what it tells us. It's a simple stat that says we've improved on Defense.. Can't you just leave it at that? 
Why must people always work so hard to find fault?
#GMSTRONG
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I don't think that it's working to find fault as much as it is tempering enthusiasm while attempting to understand the true picture.
If you're only taking the good while ignoring the bad, then you're intentionally deluding yourself.
Looking at both honestly is what leads to understanding.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I don't think that it's working to find fault as much as it is tempering enthusiasm while attempting to understand the true picture.
If you're only taking the good while ignoring the bad, then you're intentionally deluding yourself.
Looking at both honestly is what leads to understanding.
For some that's probably true.. But for others, it seems that we could win the freakin SB and still, something will be wrong..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Toad I just don't see this recklessly aggressive defense that you say we are running that people are going to burn. I don't see us blitzing a whole lot more or less than anybody else. Granted we have not played any of the leagues top offenses but we are in the top half in points given up, the top half in plays over 20 yards given up and we are near the top in 3rd down percentage...
yebat' Putin
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Sheard has to get himself under control... too many times he's upfield and Taylor or Rubin are swinging their arms about even with the center... Henne ended up looking for those big running lanes on 3rd downs.
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IMO, the only reason we are ranked so low in rushing is because we have the third most rushing attempts against than any team in the NFL. The average yards per carry is firmly in the middle of all the defenses in the NFL, with a solid 4.0 per carry.
Simply put, it is a factor of so many running attempts, not because of bad defense. The run defense is probably average or so. Certainly not awful or bad.
you had a good run Hank.
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Going in to the season I felt like the defense was paper thin in depth and would struggle with the inexperience of the starters.
I have not changed my mind. If we would have played teams with established offenses and top 15 QB's we would be 0-3.
The Browns are fortunate to be where we are but hey, I'll take it.
Not taking away from the way the defense has played but at the same time not going overboard given who we have played. Hopefully the team grows each week as it gains experience and knowledge of each other, the schemes, and the coaching staff.
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I think some folks are missing the point.
For every one sack that we have there are 3 or more QB hits/hurries and that can take it's toll on a QB over the coarse of a game.
And last but certainly not the least is the fact that we have been waiting a very long time to have a pass rush. It's something I for one can get very used to.
Also I think that our run defense will improve as our inexperienced DL gain more experience.
3 games into the season and this defense already looks better then anything we had the last 2 years or more.
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Absolutely !
Now when we talk about our run " D " . cough , cough .
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Quote:
If we would have played teams with established offenses and top 15 QB's we would be 0-3.
And if i was a leprechaun I would pee rainbows and crap 4 leaf clovers.
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Quote:
I don't think that it's working to find fault as much as it is tempering enthusiasm while attempting to understand the true picture.
If you're only taking the good while ignoring the bad, then you're intentionally deluding yourself.
Looking at both honestly is what leads to understanding.
Show me QB HITS and PRESSURES over any Sack any day...
Sacks are nice but a Hit or Pressure turn into Incompletions and PICKS!!!!... 
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
If we would have played teams with established offenses and top 15 QB's we would be 0-3.
And if i was a leprechaun I would pee rainbows and crap 4 leaf clovers.
Yeah...And we BEAT Brees and Brady and damn near had Sanchez last year...Hell...We've given Manning everything he can handle also...
And if it wasn't for a BS snap before we were lined up we'd be 3-0...
Go Browns!!!
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General comment:
For people complaining about our run defense .... it is actually improved over last year.
We are middle of the league in yards rushing allowed per carry. Teams run a lot of times on us, but they are averaging 4 yards/carry, which id dead middle of the league. They have run at us 97 times, which is 3 most in the league.
In the Miami game, it was obvious that they wanted to run the ball a great deal. They ran it 38 times ..... but for only 138 yards. That's only 3.6 yards/carry. Given that Thomas is averaging 4.9 yards/carry, and Bush is always dangerous .... plus the fact that Henne has run for 100 yards in the first 3 yards combined ... they have a really solid running attack ... and we stopped them for most of the game.
That's a big improvement over game 1 where we allowed 33 carries for 142 and Indy who had a total of 26 for 109. Miami ran more, but was less effective. We've also only allowed 1 rushing TD this year, and only 1 run of 20+ yards. (where the defense sold out in the Bengals game near the end and the Bengals ran right untouched for the TD)
Overall, we have faced 3 teams with the ability to put up big numbers on the ground, and the desire to do so because of their QB situations, and the defense has held up fairly well.
Last year, which was a big year as far as improvement against the run, saw us allow 4.1 yards/carry and only 7 rushing TD for the year. In 2009 it was 4.6 yards/rush and 15 rushing TD. 2008 was 4.5 yards/carry and 16 rushing TD. If you go back, we have had a lot of trouble stopping the run since the team rebooted in 1999.We showed improvement last year, and frankly, given the change in defense and Jauron's history, I was worried that teams would run all over us this year. So far they really haven't. Compared to our historical performance against the run, this is the best run defense in the past 12 years. (so far) I am encouraged, especially given that I feel that we really need 2 more LB, and some more capable backups along the DL.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Nice post YTown.
I think that we will get a better feel for how our defense, defenses the run the next two games with the Titans and the Raiders.
I actually saw some swagger from our defense last Sunday, on a Day that the TOP was nearly 2 to 1 against us.
Like you I have concerns with our depth. I don't remember Mitchell coming out of the game at all, at least he was not re leaved by Benard who has been the forgotten man the past two weeks. Stephens did come in for Sheard and registered two tackles. I actually like the two guys we have on our PS at DE too.
DT is an area that I have concerns with, Paxson and Schaefering are serviceable, but neither should not be the third DT in the rotation (imo) and I think that's why we tried to go out and sign the guy from Philadelphia in the preseason.
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I cringe to think of what's going to happen when we play the Raiders. THAT will be the ultimate test for our run defense (and Campbell isn't terrible either). I fear the Titans slightly less.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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(and Campbell isn't terrible either).
man, I lost the bet. With Toad back, I was sure he would be the first person to give Campbell some praise (even faint praise).
(ok, there was no bet)
#gmstrong
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Love the sack stat! Forces people to adjust to us rather than the watch and chase defense we have seen. The youngsters are getting seasoned and succeeding well. We can blitz better, but we are getting some pressures and hurries (helps secondary too). Props to Jauron for the job he does; he was a quality get IMO. Different names in different games keep coming up. Keep it up.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I gotta admit when we signed Jauron I was less than thrilled, by a considerable amount. Having seen what he has been able to do with the players we currently have I am a bit more optimistic at the moment.
I would say I am sold on the guy but we haven't really played any prolific offenses so far. However I am thrilled with the job he has done (so far) with the amount of time he has had to work with but I would have to say my optimism that I spoke of still treads cautiously.
The good thing about it is if Jauron does indeed work out for us he most likely will be sticking around a while and we won't have to worry about another coaching/scheme change. Jauron has been a head coach twice and failed miserably twice (minus the one year the Bears went 13-3). I don't really think anyone is going to give him another opportunity and i'm not sure if he would want one, so thats good news for us because we might just be able to get some continuity for once.
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Quote:
Quote:
That's a nice stat, but it only tells one side of the story.
Yes Negative nancy
Who cares what it tells us. It's a simple stat that says we've improved on Defense.. Can't you just leave it at that?
Why must people always work so hard to find fault?
I could, but you wouldn't love me anymore, D.
No, seriously, when coaches are trying to make a team better, they have to find fault. I could ride the bandwagon without saying anything, but I'd rather try to help folks see the reality of the situation so that when we do get toasted, they don't take the long walk off the short pier.  To that end, it's great we're near the top in sacks. It really is. But in our case, it's going to come at a price. That's come in the form of 28th or 29th in the league against the rush, and many games where we'll make guys like Henne look like guys like Brady. It'd be at that point in time when people are calling for Jauron's head when I'd turn around and say the fans shouldn't expect more than the players can give, and that it's not Jauron's fault.
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DC: Toad I just don't see this recklessly aggressive defense that you say we are running that people are going to burn. I don't see us blitzing a whole lot more or less than anybody else.
Not really sure I said our defense was reckless, or that we're blitzing more than anyone else. What we're doing is only creating pressure when we blitz (for the most part) which is going to lead to times where we get killed when we don't get to the QB. Hence the "live by the sword, die by the sword" comment.
Until we can start getting regular pressure against QB's out of our base defense, we're going to make some sacks, but we're going to get burned more than other teams.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I agree with you 100%.
I was really concerned because Jauron has always wanted small LBs, and small DL. He typically only played 1 300# DL and 1 250# LB as his biggest players, with speed being more at a premium than size and strength. His DL usually went something like 250/275/300/270 with LB in the range of 230/250/230.
In the AFCN, that's asking for abuse.
It appears that we are going to run a hybrid Jauron defense, with bigger Tackles and bigger Linebackers. That's encouraging. I think it can work in the AFCN, because you have to rush the passer, but you also have to be able to stop the run ... especially in December.
I can't argue with his schemes so far. Given that he has a ton of new guys, he's been remarkable effective.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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web page Good read on what Jauron was doing on Sunday.
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I would make one correction to this article ...... Quote:
In doing so, a long forgotten pass rush has been reintroduced to Browns Nation. Currently, the Browns rank second in the league in total sacks – which is quite the departure from the past dozen years of defensive futility.
In 2009 we ranked 8th (tied) in sacks with 40. The league leader that year had 48. That's hardly an eternity without a pass rush.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I can't argue with his schemes so far. Given that he has a ton of new guys, he's been remarkable effective.
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I dunno in Chicago in 2001 ( the best year) he had Ted Washington and Keith Traylor who both were every bit of 340 or more. Don't know about the defensive ends but If they were lighter and speedier that would make a bit of sense to me. Plug ur fatties in the middle to help stop the run and command double teams with speed guys off the edge pretty much manned up. In Detroit he had Shaun Rogers and I have no idea who else ( have to look that up) but I am wondering if the size of the players he ran were his preference or if they were only what he had to work with. Lets not forget who was running the show back then, Mr. I WANT A WIDE RECEIVER!
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Jauron is doing a really really good job making adjustments. We're getting pressure, but unlike the last few years, we're not sending the entire team.
There's no doubting the effect Rubin and Phil are having. Sheard is still taking his lumps, but even at times he looks like he's pretty good.
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Another interesting stat...Taylor and Rubin lead all Defensive Tackles in total tackles in the NFL with 18 and 16, respectively. Even including ALL D-Linemen, only DE Jason Pierre-Paul exceeds Rubin with 17 - and no one exceeds Taylor. It's great to us making so many stops at the first level, and D'Qwell is doing a great job behind them.
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That is indeed an interesting stat... and kind of surprising, as well. Welcome to the boards!
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As Purp noted, we're terrible against the run.
We've given up 1 rushing TD in 3 games. We've given up some yards running the ball, but we're not letting them score doing it.
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It's not as though teams have huge leads against us and they are simply cramming the ball down our throats. We were in all these games.
No, they're bouncing it outside for the most part. When they try to cram it down our throats, they get stuffed. Isn't easy to run inside against Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin.
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It'd also be far too easy to point to the 'backers and say they are the reason we aren't good against the run. Watching replays of the game shows that our DT's aren't clogging the middle as well as people think.
They're doing a fine job clogging the middle.
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Furthermore, while Sheard is getting all these props for his rush ability, the truth as shown in replays exposes his lack of ability to hold up at the point of attack. He's a very undersized DE, and he's a rookie.
He shows good ability when it's time to just turn the corner and head up field. In that regard he's Kamerion Wimbley 2.0, where he can get there on obvious passing downs, but can't hold up against the run. Mitchell is the same way.
Sheard is getting pressure on opposing QBs and that's helping to stop opposing drives with incomplete passes or passes short of the first down marker.
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I'm also not enamored with what I've seen out of Sheldon. He looks like he's lost a step this year. His age is makes such a fear a consideration.
Sheldon Brown needs to be dropped in the depth chart or moved to the practice squad.
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We have iffy linebackers and our defensive front four aren't good against the run. That's limited talent. Can Sheard and Mitchell become good against the run? It's entirely possible, but right now, they aren't. Same goes for our DT's.
Our DL is phenomenal, even with the two rookies on it. Our LBs need some better talent and that should get addressed in the draft next year. I anticipate that it will be.
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It's easy to gloss over our weaknesses when we're winning. When we lose, they become topics of conversation.
Everything is a topic of conversation.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,984
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,984 |
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STAT THAT STICKS: Eleven sacks by the Browns this season. That's the second-most in the NFL, which is a big improvement for a defense that had the eighth-fewest in the league last season.
Actually we are 3rd behind the Cowboy and Eagles.
Joe Thomas #73
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Quote:
STAT THAT STICKS: Eleven sacks by the Browns this season. That's the second-most in the NFL, which is a big improvement for a defense that had the eighth-fewest in the league last season.
Actually we are 3rd behind the Cowboy and Eagles.
That's pretty good company.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns 2nd in league in sacks
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