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The thing is that Gocong is ideal for the Eagles' defense. That's the reason they drafted him. He is a blitzer/pass rusher.
I think Gocong is our best linebacker but I would not pay him $5.6 million a year.
you are one of the local draft gurus.
Who do you think would be a likely draftee in 2012?
thanks....
I will go ahead and assume you meant at linebacker since that is the topic here.
Fortunately for the Browns, this is a loaded linebacker class. Vontaze Burfict (6'3" 255, Arizona State) is an animal. He is incredibly undisciplined and risky, but I firmly believe he could be the NFL's best linebacker. He is big, fast and mean.
Luke Kuechly (6'3" 235, Boston College) is a tackling machine, but I'm not a huge fan. He doesn't make enough plays for me to love him, but he is a 1st rounder. Manti T'eo (6'2" 255, Notre Dame) is similar to Kuechly but is bigger and a bit more exciting.
I also really like Zach Brown (6'2" 230, North Carolina). He is the ideal WILL linebacker and makes plays all over the field. I actually like him second behind Burfict.
yes, LB prospects.
the problem with that list is that Heckert has a reputation of not drafting LBs in early rounds.
and.....
Next years starters look to be Gocong,Fujita and Jackson.The first two have contracts until at least 2013.
in addition.......
Heckert may need to invest the higher draft picks on positions such as QB, T, WR, DE and CB or some other area depending on how the season progresses.
Keeping that in mind, who would be a decent LB prospect in the 3rd to 5th round?
I was kinda unclear about my mid-round projection for a LB. You might disagrre with that projection however.
I just don't see a high round investement at LB unless a bunch of the younger guys prove to be true starting material. This is most especially true concerning Colt.
We could also discuss the selection of a QB with our 1st round pick. That is a distinct possibility.
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I'd be very surprised if we draft a LB in the 1st 2 rounds...Heckert doesn't value them for this D and I agree somewhat...LBs are the RBs of the D, you can sign decent ones in FA every offseason. We re-signed Gocong and try to do the same with Dqwell....we need depth and a Fujita successor, sure but we won't draft them with our top 3 picks
I'd say we need a CB more than a LB....Brown is declining and Skrine and Patterson are better suited for the nickel/dime duties...with our 3 top 50 picks we will draft WR, DL, CB, maybe OT...maybe QB, depending on Colt's evaluation and if we get our hands on someone the Walrus likes (big Weeden fan here, 27yo so what?). I also like what I've seen from Zach Brown so far but curious about the disciplinary issues that led to his demotion against GT and again, I don't think we go LB high
If we have a Top 10 pick I'd love to get 1 of DE Coples, WR Blackmon or CB Kirkpatrick....the 2nd 1st rounder could go to our RT of the future, maybe Reiff? but I doubt we invest that high for a RT or we take our #2 CB of the future like Gilmore, who's strong against the run (needed in this D) but not perfect in coverage....the CB I want is Hayward from Vandy though...and I really don't care where we draft him as long as it's not a Top 15 pick
Right now my dream scenario would be WR Blackmon and OT Reiff in the 1st, then QB Weeden in the 2nd, CB Hayward in 3rd or vice versa, depending on "value" after the season...maybe a OLB in the 4th (Bradham? Carder?)
@LJ
mid to late round LBs that fit the scheme: Bradham (FSU), Carder (TCU), Trevathan (Kentucky), S.Spence (Miami, FL), Fleming (ND), Wilber (WF)
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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thanks...
and to add
the DL are really the top priority in the 4-3.
putting on my tin foil hat....
Jayme mitchell was the harbinger of the 4-3 and the dismissal of Ryan and Mangini. It's clear to me now. In a tin foil hat kinda way.
Last edited by Line Judge; 09/30/11 08:47 AM.
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Blackmon in the 1st would be a DREAM. That's the kinda player Heckert likes to draft ....
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Blackmon in the 1st would be a DREAM. That's the kinda player Heckert likes to draft ....
Really? Cause as far as I know, Maclin (whos a completely different type of WR) was the first 1st round WR since um... Freddie Mitchell?
PS: I want Tank Carder, he may be undersized, but I just want that dude on the Browns...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Blackmon in the 1st would be a DREAM. That's the kinda player Heckert likes to draft ....
Colt needs to progress for that to happen.
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the problem with that list is that Heckert has a reputation of not drafting LBs in early rounds.
I don't know where u guys get this stuff from...You're guessing...
We have NO IDEA what Heckert thinks as far as Top 30ish pick LB's...
This falls into not missing in the 1st round and going BPA...
2009...19th pick...LB's taken at 13...15...16...Next at 26...And if not for his NAME...Mathews could've been deemed a 2nd round talent so Heckert bypasses em'...3 were taken ahead of his 19th pick...
Who's to say he wouldn't have taken one of the top 3 that were GONE at 19 if still on the board...
2008...No 1st rounder...LB's go 9 and 10...
2007...No 1st rounder (Traded down and took Kolb in 2)...LB's go 11...15...25...Who's to say he wouldn't have taken one of the top 3 if available at his pick...
2006...14 pick...LB's go 5...9...13,,,Next ones are Greenway...Carpenter...Lawson...At 17...18...22...Who's to say where he had them rated...All 3 after 14 coulda been late ones to 2nd rounders...
It's all in BPA...Burfict...He may LOVE the kid but have him rated 22nd on the board...We draft 12 and don't take em'...Says absolutely NOTHING...Don't assume Heckert don't value LB's high...
Go Browns!!!
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Blackmon in the 1st would be a DREAM. That's the kinda player Heckert likes to draft ....
Really? Cause as far as I know, Maclin (whos a completely different type of WR) was the first 1st round WR since um... Freddie Mitchell?
PS: I want Tank Carder, he may be undersized, but I just want that dude on the Browns...
Heckert drafts explosive type guys (like mccoy, maclin, desean jackson). I didn't mention round 1.
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It's all in BPA...Burfict...He may LOVE the kid but have him rated 22nd on the board...We draft 12 and don't take em'...Says absolutely NOTHING...Don't assume Heckert don't value LB's high...
I get the feeling Heckert doesn't value any position what so-ever. The guy drafts smart, he prepares, and he doesn't reach. He makes a draft board, sticks to it and takes the best available player on it.
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It's all in BPA...Burfict...He may LOVE the kid but have him rated 22nd on the board...We draft 12 and don't take em'...Says absolutely NOTHING...Don't assume Heckert don't value LB's high...
I get the feeling Heckert doesn't value any position what so-ever. The guy drafts smart, he prepares, and he doesn't reach. He makes a draft board, sticks to it and takes the best available player on it.
I agree and I can't really find anything wrong with it.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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the problem with that list is that Heckert has a reputation of not drafting LBs in early rounds.
I don't know where u guys get this stuff from...You're guessing...
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2009...19th pick...LB's taken at 13...15...16...Next at 26...And if not for his NAME...Mathews could've been deemed a 2nd round talent so Heckert bypasses em'...3 were taken ahead of his 19th pick...
Who's to say he wouldn't have taken one of the top 3 that were GONE at 19 if still on the board...
2008...No 1st rounder...LB's go 9 and 10...
2007...No 1st rounder (Traded down and took Kolb in 2)...LB's go 11...15...25...Who's to say he wouldn't have taken one of the top 3 if available at his pick...
2006...14 pick...LB's go 5...9...13,,,Next ones are Greenway...Carpenter...Lawson...At 17...18...22...Who's to say where he had them rated...All 3 after 14 coulda been late ones to 2nd rounders...
You mock someone for "Guessing" ... Then proceed to bring up several drafts... And try to GUESS what Heckert would have done...
I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying...
Joe Thomas #73
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the problem with that list is that Heckert has a reputation of not drafting LBs in early rounds.
I don't know where u guys get this stuff from...You're guessing...
We have NO IDEA what Heckert thinks as far as Top 30ish pick LB's...
This falls into not missing in the 1st round and going BPA...
2009...19th pick...LB's taken at 13...15...16...Next at 26...And if not for his NAME...Mathews could've been deemed a 2nd round talent so Heckert bypasses em'...3 were taken ahead of his 19th pick...
Who's to say he wouldn't have taken one of the top 3 that were GONE at 19 if still on the board...
2008...No 1st rounder...LB's go 9 and 10...
2007...No 1st rounder (Traded down and took Kolb in 2)...LB's go 11...15...25...Who's to say he wouldn't have taken one of the top 3 if available at his pick...
2006...14 pick...LB's go 5...9...13,,,Next ones are Greenway...Carpenter...Lawson...At 17...18...22...Who's to say where he had them rated...All 3 after 14 coulda been late ones to 2nd rounders...
It's all in BPA...Burfict...He may LOVE the kid but have him rated 22nd on the board...We draft 12 and don't take em'...Says absolutely NOTHING...Don't assume Heckert don't value LB's high...
but, but....
DnD, arent you guessing too?
Heckert has the history of DL and CB as a priority.
In a 4-3 that just might be the two most important positions, at least in his mind. We are in a 4-2 5 defense a lot anyway. That's just two LBs about half the time?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for drafting a kick ass LB. Fujita is not getting any younger, but neither is Sheldon Brown.
and..... Frankly, I can't believe that Ray Ventrone is still on the roster.
If you compare the Iggles to us we just might have a better LB corps. In fact I'll come right out and state that we have a better LB corps than the Iggles.
I might even go as far as to state that we are 3 players worse than the Iggles and that would be Jackson, Vick and Macklin. Other than that, we might be better.
then again I have drank 4 Heinekens and may be waaaaay off base  or a truthful drunk.
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I really don't disagree with you about the linebackers, but I don't necessarily agree either.
I'm not a Coples fan at all. He doesn't look explosive to me.
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I'd take Lesean McCoy all day over Hillis....he is the REAL deal, and is probably the best back in the game today IMO.
But I get your point. The Eagles are vastly over rated
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Wait, what?
LeSean McCoy is better than Adrian Peterson, Ray Rice, and Darren McFadden?
(The answer is no.)
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I'd take Lesean McCoy all day over Hillis....he is the REAL deal, and is probably the best back in the game today IMO.
But I get your point. The Eagles are vastly over rated
well, we all know hillis is a differnt sort of animal.glad to jhave that animal.
but our real conundrum will be at QB.
We all know that..........
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In the years past I have seen many posters say we need continunity on this team.. As a young team maybe the Fo is looking to create that...
So many times the Cleveland teams have let go talent.. that went to other teams and made a difference...
I`m going to be patient and hope that things pan out in the possitive....Re-building every season is getting old for myself...
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In the years past I have seen many posters say we need continunity on this team.. As a young team maybe the Fo is looking to create that...
So many times the Cleveland teams have let go talent.. that went to other teams and made a difference...
I`m going to be patient and hope that things pan out in the possitive....Re-building every season is getting old for myself...
Not only is it getting old IM getting old. Having said this over and over for way to many decades - We need to get this right. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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In the years past I have seen many posters say we need continunity on this team..
Re-building every season is getting old for myself...
Well they have HIllis, McCoy, Watson, Cribbs, and Massaquoi, If they can build on that, someday they might get an offense.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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If you give me the choice between the 4 of those backs, I choose McCoy...and that's strictly my opinion. This year especially...he's on a new level.
Plus, he is a great WCO back...so dangerous out of the backfield.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Did you see Ray Graham against South Florida the other day? Guy looks like the Next Shady possibly better, guys only a junior and pretty much single handedly beat SFU. Had 226 rushing yards 2 td's and 4 receptions for 42. Dudes got some serious shake and bake to his game and is a pretty good receiver. Had a one handed grab that was just sick.
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wait...lately, who have we let go that have gone on to be good elsewhere?
So far, the only players that have gone elsewhere and played even...are
Leigh Bodden
Shaun Smith
Antonio Garay
Braylon Edwards
Kellen Winslow
Shaun OHara
Luke McCown
Jeff Garcia
Bruce Gradkowski
im drawing a blank on much else...thats a lot of names but so little star power its unbelieveable
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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That list is way, way short.
I don't feel like looking them all up but ...
Rogers
Coleman
Elam
Stuckey
Vickers
Trusnik
Costanzo
... are all signed with other teams and they were just the ones from last year's Browns.
#gmstrong
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Zastudil comes to mind...Im not sure how he's doing in Arizona..
Not to get off track on Gocong's deal...I agree on the lack of star power on players we let go...imo..it was more of the building a group of guys that were good... and the longer they played together the better they would be..
This is the 4th youngest team in the league...Most of the players the team has....are good enough for me to see on the field for a few seasons to see how they grow as a team..
Imo...if anything it will show free agents that this team is serious on taking care of the players in order to build a winning organization here in cleveland...I just hope they pay players accordingly....
Down the road i hope this will affect the ability to have stronger drafts...
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i wasnt much thinking about last years Browns...thats a good point...
Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald both play in Detroit too...
At the same time...even that list you have isnt overly impressive.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Kelly Holcomb
Alvin McKinley
Jamal White
Jerome Harrison
Wali Rainer
David Patten
Roman Oben
Gerard Warren
Keith McKenzie
Chris Gardocki
Dennis Northcutt
Mike Sellers
Mark Campbell
Barry Stokes
Kenard Lang
Earl Holmes
Robert Griffith
Andre Davis
Corey Fuller
Melvin Fowler
Jeff Faine
Kevin Bentley
Andra Davis
Anthony henry
Terrelle Smith
Antonio Bryant
Ebenezer Ekuban
Chaun Thompson
Derrick Frost
Leigh Bodden
Chris Crocker
Kirk Chambers
Nick Eason
Amon Gordon
Lewis Sanders
Reuben Droughns
Charlie Frye
Derek Anderson
LJ Shelton
Brian Russell
Sean Jones
Corey McIntyre
Michael Lehan
Brodney Pool
Kevin Shaffer
Hank Fraley
Kamerion Whimbley
Ralph Brown
Darnell Dinkins
Lawrence Vickers
Shawn Smith
Eric Wright
Brandon McDonald
Dave Zastudil
Donte Stallworth
Rex Hadnot
Corey Williams
Shaun Rogers
Kenyon Coleman
Matt Roth
There's a partial list since 2000 or so. (off the top of my head, plus a quick cheat here or there)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I only listed ones I could remember from last year to this year. YTown has a more complete list likey because he has a more complete set of brain cells than I. I burned out a lot of brain cells having only 3 left. I need one to eat, one to take a crap and the third one gets all the other duties. 
#gmstrong
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From 1999, you can add to the list guys like:
Terry Kirby
Marc Edwards
Leslie Shepherd
Lomas Brown
Jim Pyne
Orlando Brown
Darius Holland
Ryan McNeil
Marquez Pope
Kevin Johnson
Orlando Bobo
Jerry Ball
Darrin Chiaverini
James Dearth
Ty Detmer
Antonio Langham
Ryan Kuehl
Scott Rehberg
John Thierry
We might not have had great talent on that team, but we weren't horrible at every position either. We just had guys who were complimentary players rather than stars ..... guys who couldn't carry a unit, but who could be plugged into a good unit and help a good team.
Unfortunately, we were missing those guys who were difference makers, who could make a play when you absolutely needed one, either on offense or defense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That's awesome you remember them.. Geesh being 50 It's embarrassing what you forget... Yes I know search engines have answers... But like ddubia Im lacking brain cells...  The difference makers you speak of... they are on the list of... players we passed on in the draft....  .... 
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Speaking of Rogers,, how's he doing in NO... Haven't watched any of thier games..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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From what I have heard, their DL hasn't exactly been a force thus far.
Looking at some of the scores they have allowed, I doubt they've done much.
Just looked, and Rogers has 5 tackles in 3 games. Brian Schaefering has that many for us as a backup, plus half a sack. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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From what I have heard, their DL hasn't exactly been a force thus far.
Looking at some of the scores they have allowed, I doubt they've done much.
Just looked, and Rogers has 5 tackles in 3 games. Brian Schaefering has that many for us as a backup, plus half a sack. lol
Geez, that's a damn shame.. I guess the FO knew what they were doing when they dumped him, man he fell far really fast didn't he?
Last edited by Damanshot; 10/01/11 07:45 PM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He's been falling for 2 years now. Rubin outplayed him so badly last year it wasn't even funny.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He's been falling for 2 years now. Rubin outplayed him so badly last year it wasn't even funny.
Yeah, but dang,,I just thought he might have had a little more in the tank.. Guess not.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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thats such a gross list...
almost none of them became starters elsewhere...
Leigh Bodden
Chris Crocker
Anthony Henry
Braylon
KW2
Gerard Warren
Jeff Faine
Melvin Fowler (albeit a terrible one)
AndrA Davis
Antonio Bryant
Kirk Chambers (albeit a terrible one)
DA
Sean Jones
Kam Wimbley (via trade though)
E Wright
Brodney Pool
Corey McIntyre
Corey Williams
Shaun Rogers
Thats it for guys that left and started anywhere...over 11 years...thats a sorry record, and none of them have been difference makers and they have a total of 1 ring (Shaun OHara) since theyve left.
I get that we've had guys that have gone elsewhere and contributed...but not at any high level...Its not like we've been letting go of Nnamdi's and Farriors and Suggs's, and Ray Edwards's and Sam Adams's...
Wimbley is the only guy that really stood out at all after leaving. Henry tailed off, Pool made a brief impact before re-getting hurt, Faine has held down the center spot in TB for a while...or did he go to NO? (or am i just thinking of his ND helmet?)
Our FAs and trades have gone places and been okay. Which, teams do that all the time. But we havent had ANY that have gone and been significant contributers on good teams. I think Eric Wright will change that as he'll do good in Detroit. But thats about it.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Posts: 8,556 |
That lard ass has logged more miles on the bicycle than Lance Armstrong.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 10/01/11 08:35 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,007 |
Quote:
Quote:
He's been falling for 2 years now. Rubin outplayed him so badly last year it wasn't even funny.
Yeah, but dang,,I just thought he might have had a little more in the tank.. Guess not.
He did have an interception for a TD
Joe Thomas #73
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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How about Shaun O'Hara he has a ring
Joe Thomas #73
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
How about Shaun O'Hara he has a ring
He said that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Chris Gocong signs 3-year $16.8
million extension
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