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Colt McCoy has thrown 172 passes this year, ranking him 2nd in the league behind Drew Brees. This offense is not a run first offense and in fact is more of a finesse offense. This type of offense is designed to take 5 yard routes and turn them into 12-17 yard gains.
This offense is not designed to pound the rock 25 times which is the magic number for Hillis to break 100 yards and assist in victories. To date Hillis touched the ball 54 times (44 rushes and 10 receptions). That is 14 rushes per game and 3.3 receptions per game based on his 3 games played.
If you look at today's game vs. the Titans, Hillis was not much of factor even though he was performing well early. The game started to get away from the Browns, but there were spots where Hillis should have been in the game to either gain the tough 2 yards or catch the flat passes that Hardesty dropped.
Here is the point of this message and it is only my opinion. I do not believe Hillis will be playing for the Browns in 2012 and I would not be shocked to see the Browns trade Hillis away. The extension has not been completed, the talk between the two camps comes off as cold to me as well. Then they pulled Hills in the Titans game in favor of Hardesty when it was obvious that Hillis looked puzzled on the sidelines as to why he was not in the game.
Hillis was not a Holmgrem guy, therefore I believe he will be traded this season or released by the end of the year. I'm a huge Hillis fan as he is a true representative of the history of the Cleveland Browns. That being said, I guess all's we can do as fans is trust Holmgrem that he knows what he is doing from an offensive philosophy and building a club built for Cleveland weather.
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Quote:
Hillis was not a Holmgrem guy
Heckert traded for him, Heckert is a Holmgren guy. Therefore by the transitive property Hillis is Holmgren's guy.
Why would they be working on a contract extension if the didn't want to keep him?
Worst. Post. Ever.
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LIKE!
PS- you are going down this week in fantasy football, i play you (i'm dennis_dropcutt) lol
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I admit, I failed miserably on the Holmgrem/Heckert pickup. Huge memory lapse on that one! That being said I understand they were discussing extension, but I find it odd that the talks have basically stalled and then we move away from Hillis so quickly in today's game. Looking at the Browns style of offense under the current coach, I just don't see a great fit for Hillis. By the way, "worst post ever?" Really? You must not have been around this board very long because I have read some straight up BS. LOL! 
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With the big contracts for Peterson and Johnson the RB money got skewed way up and now harder to work out a deal. Everyone wants the huge payday. This FO knows who Hillis is.
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Could it be the fact that he still isn't fully healthy?
I don't know all of the details of his strep but if it was bad enough to keep him out of last weeks game and bad enough for him to lose 12 or so pounds in a week ... maybe he wasn't fully recovered and they wanted to ease him back in?
The game got away from Cleveland early but Hillis STILL had 15 touches. We are just in a more balanced system where no individual is the star and everyone is evenly effective (if you can call it effective). 6 players had 5 or 6 catches. 6 more were targeted and 5 had catches. No-one is the entire show anymore.
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Strep is pretty nasty. The antibiotics they give you is a 5-day dose. My son's had strep a dozen times since he was a kid. He had it last week. (Must be going around this time of year).
In his presser on the main site he said he's healthy and feeling fine. He agreed with a reporter that he does get on a roll with more carries. He also said that the number of plays he was in today is the coaches decision and you have to respect that.
If he can respect that then I can respect that.
Doctor's may have told Shurmur, "He's going to tell you he's fine but he won't be 100% for another half-week or so". Strep's nasty.
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Quote:
Quote:
Hillis was not a Holmgrem guy
Heckert traded for him, Heckert is a Holmgren guy. Therefore by the transitive property Hillis is Holmgren's guy.
Hillis is a Mangini guy. Mangini targeted him as a potential asset and Mangini suggested him as a trade piece when the Browns were looking to move Quinn.
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Yeah, as Mangini was quick to spout credit for.
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Quote:
Could it be the fact that he still isn't fully healthy?
This was my thought as I watched the game.
Let's not be too short-sighted here, or jump to rash conclusions based on the results on one game. Dude lost 10-15 pounds over the course of his illness...
...and I don't care who you are, Peyton Hillis included, if you take that much of a hit, you don't fully recover in just 10 days.
The time to worry about Hillis' role is if he's still being limited after the bye week... and I doubt that's gonna happen. Dude's too integral a part of the O.
Sheesh.... we bitch that Hillis was worn down from overuse during the last part of the '10 season, and now we bitch (or at least wildly speculate) when his new staff eases him back into the lineup just 1.5 weeks after a major viral infection?
People, please- there's a big pile of free 'thinking caps' over there in the corner. Help yourselve to one. (I hear they're 'one size fits all-)
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Quote:
[Hillis is] too integral a part of the O.
Hillis hasn't been at all integral in the Pat Shurmur offense.
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ESPN = Always classy. 
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GO ROCKETS
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ive 3 words for this thread title as a topic...
shameful
inexcusable
confusing
Hillis needs the ball in his hands...alot, period. end of story...he wore down because hed never played that many games and had that many cbrries since HS...give him the ball...300 times this year, stop trying to be cute and different.
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It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Just an observation, RNC, but this seems a little doom-and-gloomy to me. If a guy is too sick to play due to strep on game-day, it's not hard to imagine that Hillis wasn't 100% today. I also gotta say I've no problem limiting his carries. He's a bruiser who is likely to wear down, so saving some effective carries for later in the year while simultaneously getting what is in essence a rookie some reps is fine by me.
I seriously doubt Hillis won't be a Brown for the rest of his effective career. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Whatever the reason(s), it's clear Hillis is not going to be used as last season. That was a different coach with a different philosophy. We are WCO now and a record of attempts today proved that.
Getting Hillis a new deal could be difficult w/ this new regime w/ a WCO centered thinking a bruising back simply isn't a priority now. Hillis and his agent are saying - look at what we did last year and we're on the cover of Madden! Browns are thinking - yeah, that was with Gini and you are not going to be used like that with us in charge now.
Whether that is a good decision is up for a large discussion, but this new WCO as it stands now does not put Hillis as a priority, that part is clear.
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Brown's fan since 2004...the tradition continues. ![[Linked Image from i21.photobucket.com]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b272/presto247365/IMG_2561-1-1.jpg)
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I watched the game last week and came away thinking Hardesty needed to get more carries and then he did today. I would like to see both guys in the backfield more often and I would like to see us running the ball more.
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If they use Hillis the way they did today I dont think Hillis will be a Brown next year. He need to carry the ball and hes not getting his carries.
Perhaps the Browns are stonewalling him in his FA year so he wont command so much money and trying to work in Hardesty. Either way he wont be back as our back if we dont use him.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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its strange because Holmgren used Alexander, and SJax went over 1100 both years shurmur was there, and most WCOs use their RBs with Philly being a rare example of something different...that being said Shady gets a ton of touches as did westbrook. GB got Grant over 1200 every year til he got hurt and starks is on his way to over 1000.
Why not Peyton?
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It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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If he continues to average less than 4 ypc what should we do with him?
Think logically, the guy could have been a 1 hit wonder
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The broadcast showed a stat after our 1st 22 plays, it read: 11 rushes, 11 passes...the runs got us into FG range, but when the field got shorter the opposing Ds own us and the run gets stopped too....QB play is the problem. I got trashed all last year when I had the onions to say that I haven't seen Colt make a NFL throw in the RedZone and that it'll be a problem going forward with DCs having more film on him...well, here we are
Hillis got the ball early but all we got was 2 long FGs because our QB was unable to make that necessary play in opposing territory....if I remember correctly we were stopped 3 (!!) times on the TEN 40 in the 1st half....Hillis playing time is tied to Colt's effectiveness to keep us in games, that's it folks...and it's that way on every NFL team
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Actually the Shurmur offense hasn't been at all integral on game days. Hardesty let us down with BE Drop DAy (that is every Sunday in the fall). We do not do enough of anything to establish our offensive control. More3 Hillis and fewer two yard passes is a starting place. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
I admit, I failed miserably on the Holmgrem/Heckert pickup. Huge memory lapse on that one! That being said I understand they were discussing extension, but I find it odd that the talks have basically stalled and then we move away from Hillis so quickly in today's game.
Looking at the Browns style of offense under the current coach, I just don't see a great fit for Hillis.
By the way, "worst post ever?" Really? You must not have been around this board very long because I have read some straight up BS. LOL!
Just wondering,, how do you know the talks have stalled? I haven't read one article saying they've stalled. Hillis hasn't said anything like that, Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur are all mum on it..
So, how do you know that it's stalled?
I'm asking because you make it sound as if they don't like hillis for some reason and I'm just not buying it.
We have a two headed monster at RB.. Hillis is the proven commodity and Hardesty has show flashes (except when he drops passes, 4 of then yesterday,, yikes)
Not saying you said it, but others were wondering why Hardesty wasn't getting reps in the first 2 games,, Hillis is out sick for the third game and Hardesty gets 14 reps runnning.. does ok with that.
So now it's clear he's someone they can use. where do those reps come from?
for me, I'd throw less and split those reps with Hillis and Hardesty..But that's just me.
Maybe that's what they were trying to do yesterday but when you get down,, you gotta start throwing to try and catch up..
Last edited by Damanshot; 10/03/11 08:06 AM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I am getting the feeling that Hillis will be gone after this season, if not before season is over.
Just reading between the lines with what I have seen, it IMO looks like the Madden Cover, has changed Hillis. Look at some of his comments so far this season. He doesnt seem as humble as he used to be. he basically called out Shurmer, and has talked about putting himself first instead of the team.
And with the contracts those other guys got its not going to be easy to sign him on the cheap. I think he is worth the investment if they are going to use him, but from what I saw yesterday its pretty obvious that Hardesty is the future RB of this team.
Lets not kid ourselves Hillis was thrown a throw in, for that trade of Quinn. We liked him as a FB when we traded him, and due to season-ending injury to Hardesty, HIllis got his chance. I dont think it was ever the gameplan from the start.
I am a big supporter of Hillis, but I am a Browns fan. If the Browns decide to move in a different direction I will still support the team.
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Quote:
I am getting the feeling that Hillis will be gone after this season, if not before season is over.
Just reading between the lines with what I have seen, it IMO looks like the Madden Cover, has changed Hillis. Look at some of his comments so far this season. He doesnt seem as humble as he used to be. he basically called out Shurmer, and has talked about putting himself first instead of the team.
And with the contracts those other guys got its not going to be easy to sign him on the cheap. I think he is worth the investment if they are going to use him, but from what I saw yesterday its pretty obvious that Hardesty is the future RB of this team.
Lets not kid ourselves Hillis was thrown a throw in, for that trade of Quinn. We liked him as a FB when we traded him, and due to season-ending injury to Hardesty, HIllis got his chance. I dont think it was ever the gameplan from the start.
I am a big supporter of Hillis, but I am a Browns fan. If the Browns decide to move in a different direction I will still support the team.
how else was Hillis suppose to answer those questions regarding the personnel and play calling? He answered it right. Ask the coach.
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I find it odd that he said ask "The Coach", and not ask "Coach Shurmer".....just refering to him as "The Coach" to me is a sign of problems....maybe its nothing but that stood out to me. It seems like their isnt much respect towards his coach.
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Quote:
ESPN = Always classy.
To be fair, Hillis said it "shouldn't be an issue", and it's not an issue "in his mind"
That doesn't mean some players don't feel that way.
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Quote:
he basically called out Shurmer, and has talked about putting himself first instead of the team.
When your offense is struggling bad and you were the best part of it from a year ago and now you can't get on the field, that's not putting himself ahead of the team... If the offense was playing well and he was complaining that would be putting himself first. The guy just wants to contribute and help fix the offense.
yebat' Putin
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To add to the discussion, just imagine if the the throws that Hardesty dropped had been to Hillis. I'm guessing he'd have caught most, if not all, thus improving the offense.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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Quote:
I find it odd that he said ask "The Coach", and not ask "Coach Shurmer".....just refering to him as "The Coach" to me is a sign of problems....maybe its nothing but that stood out to me. It seems like their isnt much respect towards his coach.
i think ur reaching now..
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Quote:
I find it odd that he said ask "The Coach", and not ask "Coach Shurmer".....just refering to him as "The Coach" to me is a sign of problems
Now if he would have called him just "Coach" and not "The Coach" that would really be bad.
Joe Thomas #73
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Quote:
Quote:
I find it odd that he said ask "The Coach", and not ask "Coach Shurmer".....just refering to him as "The Coach" to me is a sign of problems
Now if he would have called him just "Coach" and not "The Coach" that would really be bad.
I know. Why would Craig T. Nelson have the answer to that question?
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Quote:
Quote:
I find it odd that he said ask "The Coach", and not ask "Coach Shurmer".....just refering to him as "The Coach" to me is a sign of problems....maybe its nothing but that stood out to me. It seems like their isnt much respect towards his coach.
i think ur reaching now..
Not reaching at all....just reading between the lines! Like I have said I like Hillis and think he is right to be upset, but not taking it to the media like that. Coach, or Coach Shurmer wouldnt have stood out to me....the way he said you need to talk to The Coach did.
Its like he is blamming everything on Shurmer.....JMO!
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.. " We have a two headed monster at RB.. "
Well one would think that head coach / OC would see the above and design his game plan around it ???????? Or try and put a round peg in a square whole like we have witnessed the first four games of the season ..
I have ask , what is more important .... A system or wins ?
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Are these comments in print or video?
Because tone means everything. Read those same lines with just a simple non-chalant "You have to ask the coach why" tone, and it doesn't come across as having a problem, but more as defecting the question, which is usually a dig by a reporter to stir up trouble.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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this.^
Until I hear more, this would be my take, as well.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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j/c
I for one, want us to play Hardesty more, but I also want us to play Hillis a lot. I want them to get the same number of carries, often on the same play, unless it doesn't work, in which case Shurmur is screwing things up.
I also want Hillis to be used catching the ball more, except that I also want him to get handoffs on those same plays. But, Hardesty should also be getting the ball on those passing/handoff plays.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Someone has mentioned they are on video. I am assuming on the main site but I am not sure.
Joe Thomas #73
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"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Peyton Hillis Diminished Role
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