|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
You know, in this world of twitter, etc., you'd think that a source would have come to light.
Is it possible that the source is remaining anonymous? Absolutely.
However, is it also possible that this is just people stirring things up, then attributing it to an "inside source"? I think that's just as likely.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Just watched his last 2 PCs....I don't know yet if he's up to the (double) job but he's def a likeable guy...pretty straightforward, he's not a very good actor which makes him human and he points any criticism to himself ultimatively, which is a nice change of tone compared to Mangini
I like Shurmur and hope he turns out to be competent too...he seems to be smarter than Romeo and hope he is a keeper because we need consistency there too
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
makes me think evan moore. mangini never played him much and mangini had a good sense of character. i am not starting a rumor, just speculating! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Mangini also said that Moore busted his ass to make himself into a plsyer, going from practice squad to the main roster to contributor on gameday.
As far as the coach talking, not talking, being nice, being rude, having a sense of humor or not ..... I could not possibly care less.
Win games. The rest takes care of itself. Win games and any coach will be liked.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
[quoteSo could Shurmur being the HC and OC be in effect hurting us overall?
Thinking of getting this back on it's intended track, no, I don't see any signs that Shurmur taking on two roles is the problem. That would imply that he's spreading himself out too thinly. If there are questions, it's about his role as OC, not HC. The defense is in very good hands with Jauron. He doesn't need the HC's help there. So the HC is focusing on the offense. I'm good with it.
When I've said he's protecting Colt with this offense, I essentially mean it's a simple, low-risk offense, the kind that teams which have a porous line and shoddy, unexperienced QB play have to march out there. That's all Colt is apparently ready or capable of executing in the here and now. I'm sorta fine with it, except I think he's failing with his personnel packages. I haven't seen anything which tells me Robiskie and Moore should have lost playing time to guys like Alex Smith. I don't believe he's putting his best people on the field. There are usually reasons for this which surface months or weeks later, so if the circumstance continues to exist the truth will come out as to why.
I do want to say that any statements which suggest he's losing the locker room......after 4 games.......is ridiculous. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,202
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,202 |
I don't have much input with all the different posts and threads... I read them..I agree with most of them...The negs.. the pos..Really since 99 the conversation on this team hasn't changed much.. This has been written many of times on here...My take on it...is the young HC... the team being young...lack of that star player.. Is it right to say ...that we may have that star in one of these guys..all we need to do is be patient...we all have to agree.. most of us have...and yes when is it time to throw that out the door.. We may see some good development from these young players... I hope we do... What I force myself to do....Not get into that negative way of thinking...as hard as it is to do at times... I tell myself...this season is to see what we have in this young team...and of course..look to next year to see what the team can improve on... And then there's the worst part, for me that is..just be patient..ugh ! Funny thing is.. I still watch the team that I love the most... And can't understand the why part of it... Some year.. it will happen.. we will win...and the hardships of being a Browns fan will lesson...Until then... I will read all the posts on here and hope we can talk about how it feels to have that ring..   As far as Shurmur hurting this team...It's to soon for me to answere that...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
It's not too soon to say if Shurmur is hurting this team, he probably is. IN the Tennesse game and in the Cincinnati game he probably was a problem in not being able to call plays in the instant that the game situations presented themselves.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
When I've said he's protecting Colt with this offense, I essentially mean it's a simple, low-risk offense, the kind that teams which have a porous line and shoddy, unexperienced QB play have to march out there. That's all Colt is apparently ready or capable of executing in the here and now.
You're fine with that as am I. However, many on here reflect the same complaints that the Rams fans had with Shurmur's offense; they complained about dinks and dunks and the lack of a vertical, downfield passing.
In Shurmur's defense an article from a Ram's local reporter, (I posted it on here earlier in the year), cited that Shurmur was introducing the offense slowly, progressing to the next step only after the team became proficient in the current stage. I'm sure he's taking the same approach here. We'll see dink and dunk as the QB and WR's get on the same page and improve their timing.
Many complain that Colt to often and too soon goes to the short throw but I'm betting dollars to donuts, (I like donuts), that he is being instructed to do that quickly if he doesn't see what he needs to see for the deeper ball. The same thing happened with the Rams and Sam Bradford although I doubt many will argue Bradford's lacking arm or smarts. I believe it's part of the progression of the offense as Shurmur coaches it. It's a complicated offense that will not be in rhythm 4 games into the season.
The major thing that concerns me with Colt right now is his inaccuracy this year. It's not like him. Accuracy is one of his greatest strengths and we've all seen it. While not throwing a beautiful, spiraling ball, Frye and Quinn he is not. I'm attributing it to indecision by way of being overwhelmed in the system at this point. The game is still too fast for him in this new system. So many reads, considerations and options as well as the necessary timing between himself and his receivers can only create, (until fully incorporated and second nature to all of them), slow decision making and mistakes on both ends of the ball.
By now we hate to hear they need more time, but more time is what they need.
Quote:
I think he's failing with his personnel packages. I haven't seen anything which tells me Robiskie and Moore should have lost playing time to guys like Alex Smith. I don't believe he's putting his best people on the field. There are usually reasons for this which surface months or weeks later, so if the circumstance continues to exist the truth will come out as to why.
I think we can all know the truth as to why and it has nothing to do with conspiracies, power plays or stupidity. Simply by listening to what Shurmur is saying and taking him at face value will answer the question. He says each week he gets a better feel for what individual guys can do. Pretty much, period. We can't forget that he wasn't here last season. Nor will tape tell much concerning an OL with two rookies starting, a WR corp and all offensive personnel who are being asked to do things in a system they didn't do last year.
Week by week I believe we'll see better use of personnel. Last week seemed to take a step back. But you'll have that. Shurmur is adamant that not having an off-season is a moot point. The reality is is that they have to produce. There is no asterisk on the season. From the first day of training camp he had to begin to learn his players and what they can do. To me that time was shortened so can be forgiven somewhat, but to him he can't lament that. He has to produce with the knowledge he's got each day going forward. That's that for that.
In the beginning it's understandable that he started out fitting players into the system as he figured they would fit. As he learns what each player does well and does not do well he can better adjust. Sometimes changing the players and sometimes adjusting the system to the players. But in the beginning he had no choice but to start it backwards. This bye week will do a lot for the coaches in determining who can do what, what needs to stay, what to throw out and what adjustments can be made. That goes for both sides of the ball.
It's mandatory that the players get 4 consecutive days off during a bye week. That gives the staff, and I'll include Big Mike in this, extra time to evaluate. They should be able to make good determinations and adjustments. Still, that doesn't mean that coming out of the gate in Oakland they're going to be a new, revitalized team. What it does mean is that going forward they'll have a much better plan on what to focus on and that includes the player packages they use and what they expect from each individual and what they'll be asking them to execute both individually and as a package.
Quote:
I do want to say that any statements which suggest he's losing the locker room......after 4 games.......is ridiculous.
To reiterate, that is rediculous and nothing more than the knee-jerk, fickle fans who look for that one guy to blame for everything. It's just as rediculous as expecting the QB to be fluent and decisive in this offense and for them to have found a rhythm... after 4 games.
We're at .500 going into game 5. Yeah, the competition has not been stellar. So un-stealler in fact that we'd be 3-1 if not for the knuckle-headed lack of paying attention that allowed the bengals to quick snap us into a fluke play. Regardless of the competition we're 2-2 with all the room in the world for improvement
Things could be WAY worse. As unpopular as it is to say, they need more time.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
It's not the fickle fans that are suggesting Shurmur has lost the team.
It's the Cleveland media.
I've never seen a bigger collection of hacks ever.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086 |
Wow! Could have sworn that I saw him on the field, and somebody who looked like him caught a pass or two. Hope no other impostors are allowed out on the field! 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
It's not the fickle fans that are suggesting Shurmur has lost the team.
It's the Cleveland media.
I've never seen a bigger collection of hacks ever.
Then you haven't visited Washington DC
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
I haven't seen anything which tells me Robiskie and Moore should have lost playing time to guys like Alex Smith.
He had been in there to help our line block guys like Wake and Mathis.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098 |
Quote:
In Shurmur's defense an article from a Ram's local reporter, (I posted it on here earlier in the year), cited that Shurmur was introducing the offense slowly, progressing to the next step only after the team became proficient in the current stage. I'm sure he's taking the same approach here. We'll see dink and dunk as the QB and WR's get on the same page and improve their timing.
I have a kid in my private studio- smart, tons of raw ability, boatloads of upside. Has all the "intangibles" (sound familiar?). His Moms is concerned that he's 'falling behind' other kids who are playing more advanced repertoire.
Just 2 weeks ago, I had to sit her down and tell her: "Yes- you're right- they ARE playing more advanced stuff... and quite badly. Don't forget- I'm a coach for that section and a jurist on all their auditions, so I get to hear these kids all the time. They're hurting their technique and forgetting their fundamentals by doing unsound things just to get the notes out. Their bow work is suffering because they're physically unprepared for the demands of the piece- so tone, execution and accuracy suffer. They'r doing more harm than good for their long-term growth, just for that hollow ego-boost that comes from saying, 'I'm working on [insert name of impressive piece here]' My responsibility is to thoroughly prepare Taylor for these pieces so that when I introduce them, he's got all the requisite skills to play them properly from day one, without damaging his progress as an overall musician. Do you want him to play it well, or do you want him to hack through it early?"
Momz got the point... and if Shoe is handling Colt in the same way, then I'll say he's using the right approach. Moreover, he's doing it right for the entire O, if he's approaching the other positions in the same way.
4 games in, with new everything... doesn't surprise me to see what we've seen. Losses are disappointing, to be sure- but building the foundation of a house is always the ugliest part.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144 |
Great analogy! What I find ironic is that most people here predicted this scenario, yet act disappointed and shocked when it actually occurs.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't seen anything which tells me Robiskie and Moore should have lost playing time to guys like Alex Smith.
He had been in there to help our line block guys like Wake and Mathis.
Right, but it looked as though Smith has been targeted as a receiver on obvious passing downs, and to be sure, he's not in the same class as a receiver as Robo and Moore. That was my point.
'Dub, Clemmy, and J, I absolutely agree. Sorry, I'd use the quote feature but I'm trying to get outa here. Gotta help the girlfriend fix her bmw (which means she gets to sit inside with her dog sipping lemonade while I sit under the car in the hot sun fixing it ).
I made the point in either this thread or another than Shurmur helped Bradford to one of the greatest rookie seasons in history. That people didn't recognize same was telling, but the less I say in a negative fashion here the better (this time.  ). Pat built the offense to protect Bradford. It wasn't flashy but helped him develop. He's doing the same for Colt. To that end I'm probably in the minority in that I'm not hoping for Colt to sit back and throw a bunch of bombs and vertical throws off of seven step drops. I think behind this line and with his inexperience that's asking for trouble. So I'm on-board with Shumur and his big picture. I'm not enamored with his personnel packages, but I've already said that and don't wanna be too redundant about it.
I would urge people to look at how he helped Bradford last year and understand he's doing the same with Colt.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
I think Sam Bradford is one of the three most-overrated QBs in the NFL. People were saying last year what a great job he did as a rookie, sure franchise QB, if only he had real receivers, etc. etc. blah blah blah... we'll he's got under a 50% completion percentage this year. That's awful. He's not Mark Sanchez bad, but he's far from a benchmark IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
He may be, but that's for another discussion.
If we REALLY wanna stir the pot, maybe we should say part of the reason Bradford is having a bad year is because he doesn't have Shurmur.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656 |
Quote:
If we REALLY wanna stir the pot, maybe we should say part of the reason Bradford is having a bad year is because he doesn't have Shurmur.
Well played! 
I do like Clem's analogy. I remember reading about the Packers of Lombardi having very few plays, but expecting perfection on the ones they ran. While the NFL is more complex now than then, the basics aren't. What's the use of having 100 plays if you can only run 20 or 30 of them? While it does seem painfully slow to many of us fans, I'm inclined to agree that this season is laying the foundation, and the offense we see now will pale in comparison to what we see later in the season and into next season.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
If we REALLY wanna stir the pot, maybe we should say part of the reason Bradford is having a bad year is because he doesn't have Shurmur.
... and he's a very young QB in his first season in a new system with no off-season to prepare.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
well...thats preposterous! Cam Newton is doing fine! 
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098 |
Quote:
What I find ironic is that most people here predicted this scenario, yet act disappointed and shocked when it actually occurs
Human nature, Dawg..... just human nature.....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
As for Payton only getting the ball 10 times, I feel had alot to do with our defence giving up 21 quick points, were down 21-6 early and yes we tossed the game plan a bit early but down 21-6 with the way our offence has been playing, well running the ball with Payton wanst gonna get us back in the game, we had to throw, Now if the Defence would have kept the game close 13-6 or so I do think we would have seen more payton, Wasnt Shurmur plan to keep Payton out of action, it was dictated to him bye our defence.
it was way too early to abandon the run...and yes down 21-6 early...you still run the ball...you have to give yourself a chance.....had we actually ran the ball our passing game might have been a little better and we may have given ourselves a chance to win.
Bill Walsh said it best, you stick with your gameplan...if you spend all that time coming up with a gameplan...you don't abandon it at the first sign of trouble....
there was a few games Walsh was down by 21+ early (Before the 49ers became great, they had a bunch of young guys)...he didn't abandon his running game, in fact he continued with his game plan and kept the run a part of it and actually won some of those games...
Coaching and play calling was a big part of why we lost sunday.....running the ball letting your D rest some on the sidelines is more then just resting...it allows the D coaches to go over pictures and show what the O is doing and make adjustments in game before halftime....you gotta be able to run the ball..not pass 61 times.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
I think the question has to be asked again is Schurmur hurting this team with his dual role of Offensive Coordinator and Head Coach.
It has shown to be true in with other head coaches in the past.
Schurmur still has 100 percent of my confidence vote for continuing but to completly ignore a couple of plays this season, like the pivotal play vs Cincy, and not ask the question about a dual role on gameday is wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448 |
Let's put it this way : He ain't helping
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086 |
Overtoad! That is a calculated invitation to raw anarchy! Like McCoy is limiting Shurm's brilliance because he can't flawlessly execute every time (Steiny might have been a real help this game). Bradford is a bit less than advertised in my opinion. And if "development" of McCoy is a polysyllabic for him getting absolutely flattened and beaten on, it is poor coaching. WHat does THIS coach do to get people outta the box? The Oakies poured on the pressure. Just a dumb question: How do we insist on refusing to do the things to other teams that beat us to ribbons? Blitzes, vertical routes, screens, running outside, etc.? I can't see too many areas where we outperformed them. And we sure made them look like world beaters.   
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327 |
It has always been my opinion that Head Coach/Coordinator roles rarely work. That being said, our team has a a HC/Co. who is ALSO a first time head coach, I cannot rememeber this ever working, but i am open to any input from those of you who may be able to recall a similar situationi.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482 |
Quote:
It has always been my opinion that Head Coach/Coordinator roles rarely work. That being said, our team has a a HC/Co. who is ALSO a first time head coach, I cannot rememeber this ever working, but i am open to any input from those of you who may be able to recall a similar situationi.
I agree. First time HC have the odds stacked against them as it is. Adding in the double duties of being an OC and ouch. I honestly can not recall anyone with the duel role as a rookie HC being successful anywhere before either (though I could be wrong).
The question is who do you blame for that predicament? I don't blame Pat for accepting the job/money/challenge offered to him. I blame Mike "the untouchable" Holmgren for being the idiot who only hires/works with his buddies/lackies/yes men. I'm still waiting to hear what exactly Holmgren has ever accomplished as a FO guy....
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
It has always been my opinion that Head Coach/Coordinator roles rarely work. That being said, our team has a a HC/Co. who is ALSO a first time head coach, I cannot rememeber this ever working, but i am open to any input from those of you who may be able to recall a similar situationi.
I agree. Being a HC in the NFL is a full time job during the week and during the game. I don't like HC/GMs I don't like HC/OCs or DCs.. just be the head coach.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
Quote:
It has always been my opinion that Head Coach/Coordinator roles rarely work. That being said, our team has a a HC/Co. who is ALSO a first time head coach, I cannot rememeber this ever working, but i am open to any input from those of you who may be able to recall a similar situationi.
I agree. Being a HC in the NFL is a full time job during the week and during the game. I don't like HC/GMs I don't like HC/OCs or DCs.. just be the head coach.
At the rate the fins are going, Daboll should be available soon.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Serious question about that .....
3 years and at least 4 major QB injuries ....... is it a system flaw, or a talent flaw that keeps getting his QBs killed?
Last year Delhomme, Wallace, and McCoy all suffered injuries, and this year Henne is out for the year. IIRC, the previous year saw injuries to Quinn or Anderson as well.
Is it system, or the talent running that system?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
I think it's the voodoo pin dolls he keeps in his office while he's secretly working for Vegas. Dude just sucks, pure a simple. He really does belong back here with his own kind.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Once Lindy Infante left town Marty tried taking over the OC duties and HC duties at the same time. Even with all his exp he couldnt get it done. He was in effect fired for it.
Even Mangini knew he needed to have a DC so he could run the team.
I see this as a major issue and really wish MH would have told him you can be HC but get a OC in here.
So I can lay this on MH as well. As I said in the first post I think this is impacting the offense in a negative way. Esp the QB play.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
Because Sean Payton, Andy Reid, Mike McCarthy, and *(to some extent) Bill Belichick don't call their own plays? Holmgren did it too. So does Shanahan. So Did Gruden. So does Norv Turner. So does Gary Kubiak.
If you are arguing not having a guy to run the offense at practice and think we should have an offensive coordinator who basically just holds that title then that's fine. But many other coaches have success by not only running the team but also by calling their own plays.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Its much more then having a guy to hold the clipboard with a bogus title. Its a First Time Head Coach trying to learn how to be a head coach and I believe that if he had an OC on the sidelines to work with the players while they are on the sidelines it would make a difference.
Eric Mangini if you watched him alot of times called our D plays going over things with Ryan alot. Yes Ryan was the DC but Mangini added imput an probably called some of the sets as well that Ryan worked up. It was a team effort.
You mentioned probably about what 5 or 6 coaches? How long of a span has that been and how many others have failed? How many of those listed on are their 2nd gig?
Again my question "Is Shurmur hurting this team by being both the HC and OC?" I truly believe it is. We have no OC to work with the very young players we have while on the bench, and Shurmur looks in over his head because he's not totally focused on the offense which isnt that why we brought him in here in the first place for?
Now if you think Shurmur is in the class with MH Reid BB and to a lesser extent Gruden and Payton then we will have to either agree to disagree because nothing shows me Shurmur in his career is up to meeting any of those standards as HC/OC.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Plus ..... if the Head Coach is THE Head Coach, then he can see everything that is going on. He can be aware if the other team is about to quick snap his defense instead of looking at his playlist, trying to figure out what to do next time the offense has the ball. He can see how the game is flowing. He can work with his coaches, instead of trying to decide what play to call next. He can manage the big picture, instead of getting bogged down in minutiae.
I said it before, and I'll say it again ..... successful Head Coaches learn how to manage their coaches, and manage the big picture. Unsuccessful Head Coaches try to be "Coordinator Plus", and lose control of the team, its direction, and the personalities involved, and start to see their players and coaches pulling in different directions.
We need Shurmur to be a Head Coach.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
If you are already making predictions about his career through 5 games then I am afraid there is nothing else to talk about.
Shurmur has Holmgren to speak to. He also has Jauron who is a former head coach himself. He has a decent staff. He got elected to his position by being an offensive coordinator ... why should he give that up now just because he's a head coach?
Maybe it is hurting the team. I don't know ... I honestly don't.
But as I said if it's just the playcalling aspect - then I didn't mention just 5 or 6 guys. I also believe that Todd Haley of KC calls his own plays and so does Hue Jackson of Oakland. Unless I'm wrong so does Harbaugh of San Fran ... the list keeps going.
Guys who are Type -A and have control of the team don't want to sit back while someone else calls plays for them. The offensive minded coaches oftentimes will call their own plays. That happens a lot. So if we had an O-Coordinator it could help shurmur ... but it might just be a guy who lines them up in practice and Shurmur would still call plays. That's my point.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Quote:
Because Sean Payton, Andy Reid, Mike McCarthy, and *(to some extent) Bill Belichick don't call their own plays? Holmgren did it too. So does Shanahan. So Did Gruden. So does Norv Turner. So does Gary Kubiak. .
NO Sean Payton -
Pete Carmichael, Jr.
Offensive Coordinator; , joined Saints in 2006.
Gregg Williams
Defensive Coordinator; , joined Saints in 2009.
Andy Reid-
Marty Mornhinweg Asst. Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator
Juan Castillo Defensive Coordinator
Mike McCarthy-
Joe Philbin - Offensive Coordinator
Dom Capers - Defensive Coordinator
I think you may see a trend perhaps?
Edit- Ok just for the sake of the argument I went and looked here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_National_Football_League_staffs so you can look too and the only staffs I see are
BB- No DC
Raheem Morris- No DC
Jason Garrett No OC
Pat Shurmur No OC
Thats it. A total of 4 coaches dont have both a OC and a DC.
Last edited by NickBrownsFan; 10/19/11 01:18 AM.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
See the post above: Quote:
Guys who are Type -A and have control of the team don't want to sit back while someone else calls plays for them. The offensive minded coaches oftentimes will call their own plays. That happens a lot. So if we had an O-Coordinator it could help shurmur ... but it might just be a guy who lines them up in practice and Shurmur would still call plays. That's my point.
In case you didn't read it the first time.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Thats ignoring the question. The question is do YOU think that not having an OC on the sidelines at game time working with the players and working on gameplans is hurting this team? That is the question.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Quote:
See the post above:
Quote:
it could help shurmur.
In case you didn't read it the first time.
NM I found your answer sorry I missed it. My bad.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is Shurmur hurting this team?
|
|
