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I guess I'm just thinking about how the Chargers gave up on Brees for Rivers. Not that Rivers is bad by any stretch but Brees has gone on to win the big one and I think a better overall qb.
I'm not saying I think McCoy is Brees just that some might be throwing in the towel a bit too soon on the kid.
Tulsa, it wasn't as simple as the Bolt simply choosing Rivers over Brees. If you'll recall, Brees completely tore up his shoulder AC joint, to the point where it took a record number of pins to hold it in place as it healed. I say record number because no QB in the history of the league had such a serious procedure done on their shoulder. It was a rather easy decision to let him go.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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There was also a HUGE amount of debate on the Browns boards about whether or not the Browns should try to get Brees .... and many (myself included) felt that he was far too big a risk ..... and then he got a sizable deal from New Orleans ....
I seem to recall that New Orleans and Miami were the 2 main teams pursuing Brees .... and Miami wanted more of a "show me" deal. Man ... think they wish that they had upped their deal now?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I guess I'm just thinking about how the Chargers gave up on Brees for Rivers. Not that Rivers is bad by any stretch but Brees has gone on to win the big one and I think a better overall qb.
I'm not saying I think McCoy is Brees just that some might be throwing in the towel a bit too soon on the kid.
Tulsa, it wasn't as simple as the Bolt simply choosing Rivers over Brees. If you'll recall, Brees completely tore up his shoulder AC joint, to the point where it took a record number of pins to hold it in place as it healed. I say record number because no QB in the history of the league had such a serious procedure done on their shoulder. It was a rather easy decision to let him go.
Ya know... I forgot all about that injury.
Still I think it's too early to tar and feather the kid, we should wait till the end of the season (it's not like we have much of a choice) then if he's not shown some improvement the only choice will be white feathers or multi-colored.
#GMSTRONG
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I knew when I wrote that that someone (didn't think you were the one) would start talking about individual players instead of looking at what I REALLY said,. Right teammates in the RIGHT system.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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There was also a HUGE amount of debate on the Browns boards about whether or not the Browns should try to get Brees .... and many (myself included) felt that he was far too big a risk ..... and then he got a sizable deal from New Orleans ....
I seem to recall that New Orleans and Miami were the 2 main teams pursuing Brees .... and Miami wanted more of a "show me" deal. Man ... think they wish that they had upped their deal now?
I was in the same camp as you. I wasn't sure he would come back from that surgery to his shoulder.. man, was I ever wrong..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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count me in the same boat.
but at the same time, i was telling my dad that they would be making a mistake not to give him a deal, and if he couldnt come back then you cut him and just take the cap hit.
Instead they took Daunte Culpepper coming off an ACL injury because they thought he was farther along, then he aggravated it in the preseason, then pulled his hamstring "racing" a teammate, a DB that he challenged in the 40. Oopsie.
But...the reason was made simple for SD but Brees had made it a very challenging endeavor by having a good good year before tearing up his shoulder
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I knew when I wrote that that someone (didn't think you were the one) would start talking about individual players instead of looking at what I REALLY said,.
Right teammates in the RIGHT system..
I get that ... I just disagree with your premise.
Brees makes every WR they have better. A guy who was cut by us becomes a solid contributor there. Lance Moore isn't a powerhouse, frightening receiver for them. He doesn't scare the hell out of teams. What he does is get open and catch the ball. Every team needs a guy like that. That being said though, he gained Brees' confidence, and suddenly saw the ball go his way frequently. That would not have happened here. Lance Moore is a far, far better receiver than Josh Cribbs, despite a huge difference in raw talent and measurables. Why? The QB. I bet that Cribbs would be a force at WR if he was on the Saints. He would have a superior QB, PLUS he would have that QB coaching him on the field as well.
Brees makes each and every player on that offense better. He lets the defense play looser, because they know that 1 breakdown won't likely be fatal. He makes every aspect better.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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And with what Brees did in San Diego his first couple years, people like you - had he been on the Browns, would be calling for his head.
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His 1st year, he sat.
2nd year he came on strong. He completed 60% of his passes for over 3000 yards, and had an issue with INT.
His 3rd year he was hurt ..... dropped off in every category, and saw the Chargers draft Rivers.
His 4th year, he exploded and had a superb year. He was back to 27 TD and only 7 INT. The following year he put up 3500 yards, 24 TD and 15 INT. He also got hurt.
So ... the Chargers had Brees. He did OK, but nothing spectacular. He showed promise, but got hurt. The Chargers had a chance to draft a guy they thought would be a great QB, so they did. Brees started to really come on, but then he got hurt again. The Chargers were well set at the QB spot because they had taken Rivers.
Now, I didn't watch a lot of Chargers games back then, but I would have tried to see how he looked on the field. It's hard to say just based on his stats. Injuries would have been a concern. He threw too many INT, but without seeing why, it's hard to evaluate. (and frankly, it's hard to say knowing what I know about how he turned out)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Like I said - if Brees would've been here, you, and other barkers like you, would've been calling for his head - or at least calling for drafting his replacement.
Sorry folks - it takes time.
God forbid Luck gets drafted by the Browns. If he does, all we'll hear about is "we made it. We got the saviour." Then, after about week 6 to week 8 of the season, people will be griping about being 1-5 or 1-7. "We need a line. We need defense, We need receivers".
I guarantee it.
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Like I said - if Brees would've been here, you, and other barkers like you, would've been calling for his head - or at least calling for drafting his replacement.
So basically the same exact thing that happened in San Diego..?
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God forbid Luck gets drafted by the Browns. If he does, all we'll hear about is "we made it. We got the saviour." Then, after about week 6 to week 8 of the season, people will be griping about being 1-5 or 1-7. "We need a line. We need defense, We need receivers".
So let's say we have the #1 pick. Just by our own doing, not trading up. Should we pass on the best QB to come out of college since John Elway because we need a WR or a LB?
It's easy to say "Don't sell the farm" I don't even want to sell the farm for anyone... But if we're up there anyways. You don't pass on him. Ever.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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We'll see what happens.
We could have given Charlie Frye another decade and it wouldn't have helped. We'll see what happens with McCoy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We'll see what happens.
We could have given Charlie Frye another decade and it wouldn't have helped. We'll see what happens with McCoy.
I thnk we knew about CF and so did the FO. Thats the part that is left out of this conversation. Brees got a chance because that FO felt he should get it. Colt is getting a chance because our FO feels he should. Once that changes either way it will change and there is nothing us a fans can do but debate it.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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So let's say we have the #1 pick. Just by our own doing, not trading up. Should we pass on the best QB to come out of college since John Elway because we need a WR or a LB?
It's easy to say "Don't sell the farm" I don't even want to sell the farm for anyone... But if we're up there anyways. You don't pass on him. Ever.
Are you stupid, or can you just not read and comprehend?
This place is full of people saying "trade both firsts, the second, next years first............anything to get Luck".
And I'm calling them out. It would be stupid to trade away our future just to get Luck.
If we fall into him with our first round pick? Take him.
What in God's name do you not understand??????
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arch: remember your 'coping skills,' Dawg: deep breath in..... hold it..... one- two- three... Now.... let it out.... slowly- one- two- three.... 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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So let's say we have the #1 pick. Just by our own doing, not trading up. Should we pass on the best QB to come out of college since John Elway because we need a WR or a LB?
It's easy to say "Don't sell the farm" I don't even want to sell the farm for anyone... But if we're up there anyways. You don't pass on him. Ever.
Are you stupid, or can you just not read and comprehend?
This place is full of people saying "trade both firsts, the second, next years first............anything to get Luck".
And I'm calling them out. It would be stupid to trade away our future just to get Luck.
If we fall into him with our first round pick? Take him.
What in God's name do you not understand??????
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God forbid Luck gets drafted by the Browns. If he does, all we'll hear about is "we made it. We got the saviour." Then, after about week 6 to week 8 of the season, people will be griping about being 1-5 or 1-7. "We need a line. We need defense, We need receivers".
I guarantee it.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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God forbid Luck gets drafted by the Browns. If he does, all we'll hear about is "we made it. We got the saviour." Then, after about week 6 to week 8 of the season, people will be griping about being 1-5 or 1-7. "We need a line. We need defense, We need receivers".
I guarantee it.
Certainly if we aren't winning people are going to complain. People are tired of losing and no matter how much you spin it or logically justify it, continually losing really sucks.
I don't have faith that one guy is going to be a savior for this team which is why I hope we don't sell the farm for one guy, we aren't one guy away from being winners right now.
#GMSTRONG
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I don't have faith that one guy is going to be a savior for this team which is why I hope we don't sell the farm for one guy, we aren't one guy away from being winners right now.
While true, WITHOUT that one guy, whoever that will be, we will NEVER be consistent winners...and "right now" we aren't winners anyway...that's why this offseason/draft is pretty much the best opportunity (picks and decent QB class at the top) and timing to get a QB (as our contender "window" is 2-3 years down the road with all the rooks and 2nd year guys developing)
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Lets see...
The Falcons sold the farm for that one guy because they felt they were one guy away from being all that and chocolate ice cream.
How's that working out for them?
How's that working out for us?
#GMSTRONG
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These two posts kinda get back to the original question.
IF, our youngsters continue to develop, and IF we have somebody who knows how to draft, and IF we have, say, two 1sts, plus other extra picks, IF we get an excellent DE, LB, maybe WR and ALSO a good RT and cornerback, THEN develop those guys and get one more good draft, just how hot-rod of a QB would we need? I see a team in the running next year, maybe wildcard, and a serious contender the year after that. We are still "in the running" right now and probably won't be mathematically eliminated until the last 5 games.
OK, but it's an improvement.
Can you build a team that could win with Charlie Frye, or maybe someone a good bit better? Do we need another Peyton Manning, or just another Brian Sipe?
IMO, so far we have gotten what I said last year was my great hope, a massive QB upgrade to just slightly below avg, with some significant upside. Holmgren says to wait it out, I'm good with that. We added some other good pieces, though the whole RT thing STILL has me going WTF? I figure Holmgren can't agree with me ALL the time, so I give him that one.
Take another late-round QB as prospect and back-up, if McCoy tanks or bottoms out at not quite good enough next year, grab a vet and another drafted QB. The new guy will be playing while surrounded with significantly more talent on both sides of the ball.
I do think Colt is improving, and will continue to do so. How much and will that be enough are the questions.
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Nelson very good post.
To your point...that whole, take a vet and late round QB to develop? Seneca Wallace and Thaddeus Lewis. If McCoy falters, we have a guy to hold the position down, and Thad Lewis can fill in and be fine. Will he be a world beater? Prolly not, but the kid is a decent NFL QB as has been shown in the preseasons the past 2 years. He's good enough to play in the NFL. Our QB position is locked down for years as is. If Colt improves as should be expected because he's a 2nd year guy playing in his 1st year in a system, he'll get there and hopefully make that leap. But...we have a great heirarchy in the QB spot right now. We have a young starter, a vet backup, and a 3rd stringer that is young and developmental with upside.
We're absolutely building, and if we can get those 4 spots picked up that you mentioned. DE, LB, CB, RT, or FS...Those 4 if we can find starters, and through 3 rounds its shown possible through our draft strategy. We wouldnt even have to be players in FA again. Maybe grab another Dimitri Patterson type player. Maybe a backup LB.
Were dangerously close to being a fantastic team. As long as we hit on our picks as we have the last 2 years.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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If McCoy falters, we have a guy to hold the position down, and Thad Lewis can fill in and be fine
Um... that's cool. I've never even seen him throw a pass. Not even on the sidelines. Glad to hear he'll do fine (?)
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he succeeded in college, and has completed over 70% of his throws in 2 years of preseason football. It's not like we'd be throwing out rookie Luke McCown, or just signed Bruce Gradkowski, or Matt Moore, or Cleo Lemon, or Sage Rosenfels.
We'd be puttin a guy on the field who has done okay in limited time. If we get to the 3rd stringer we could do much worse than Thad Lewis
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Cleo Lemon, or Sage Rosenfels.
Both those guys murdered us one way or another.
#gmstrong
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i was at both of those games when we played both of them...and no they did not, we destroyed em
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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You're right Cleo Lemon didn't beat us in 2007 while playing for Miami he just put up 31 points to make it interesting in our 41-31 win.
But wasn't it Sage Rosenwhatever who played in place of Peyton Manning who rested late in the season and they lost costing us a chance to back into the playoffs? That's what I was referring to with him.
#gmstrong
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So here's a funny story about Colt McCoy... I moved to the Austin, TX area from the S.F. Bay area a couple years ago just before Colt's final season with the Longhorns. As a lifelong diehard Niners fan I hated the Comboys so I wasn't about to root for them, and I didn't care about the Houston Texans. But Austin had the Longhorns, who were winning, so onto the bandwagon I jumped. My dad and I were talking about the Longhorns and their star QB, a guy who was apparently the winningest QB in NCAA history. Colt McCoy was his name. I said "Colt McCoy! What a GREAT football name!! Then said in my best husky sounding John Wayne impression, "Colt McCoy - rough & ready NFL quarterback - Ready for PRIME TIME!" But I had never seen a picture of the guy... Then the season began and we turned on the Longhorn's game and I saw it. I about fell out of my chair laughing.  I said "That's not Colt McCoy - rough & ready NFL quarterback - Ready for PRIME TIME!" He looks more like a Biff Skippy, President of the Glee Club!!! Ever since that day, we've asked ourselves if Biff Skippy(if he sucked) showed up to play or Colt McCoy(if he was good).
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Dude- that's the question we all are asking around here- and why there is so much debate about who Colt McCoy really is.
On one hand, there's the drive he engineered against miami. On the other hand, there's a tone of film footage that causes Browns fas to say, "Maybe he's not the answer that Holmy has said hw was."
Bottom line: until we see him throughout the remainder of tis season, we just can't know... and that's what has sparked the raging debate that you've seen here, of late.
There are valid points, both pro and con, regarding McCoy. Deep mfootball minds have touted him as a winner. Eyeball tests from fans have spouted doubts.
For my own money, I just haven't seen enough games to say for sure- one way or another. (Yep- you've just heard from a football fan who actually admitted that he doesn't know everything about the game!)
I hope your confidence in Colt is rewarded with success.... Lord knows we've been plagued with QB's who can't get it done. In the meantime, don't be surprised if Colt McCoy threads dominate the boards here... QB is an all-consuming issue in the NFL... and Colt hs many questions left to be answered.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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That was Jim Sorgi.
Well then, I guess it's true; they say memory is the first to go. 
#gmstrong
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Up in here, from an opposing fan, that could be taken for a smack post.
#gmstrong
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Up in here, from an opposing fan, that could be taken for a smack post.
It wasn't really meant to be one. Honest. I just thought it was a funny story that continues to be a running joke in the household. 
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continually losing really sucks.
If they can continually avoid a 2-5 record in any 7 game stretch they might have something.
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