DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shurmur views Colt as a Rookie

Cleveland Browns coach Pat Shurmur views Colt McCoy as 'almost a rookie'
Published: Tuesday, October 04, 2011, 3:53 PM Updated: Tuesday, October 04, 2011, 8:57 PM
Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer

"When we put it all together, we give ourselves a great chance (to win)," McCoy said Tuesday. "But when you're playing a good team, we're not good enough to overcome (mistakes)."

BEREA, Ohio -- Pat Shurmur views Colt McCoy much the same way he did 2010 Rams No. 1 pick Sam Bradford last season.

"[McCoy's] a young player and in my mind almost a rookie," the Browns head coach said Tuesday. "And so his improvement can be great from practice to practice and game to game. I think [he can improve] a lot."

Likewise, McCoy isn't looking at this season as an extension of 2010 -- when he went 2-6 -- because he had to start all over in a new scheme with no coaches all off-season.

"I don't think that much about last year because we're in such a new offense, new system, new coaches," he said. "I'm taught different things. I'm taught how to do things differently scheme-wise. I'm just focusing on this year and the four starts I've had. I think that's the way my coaches coach me. I think that's the way they see me."

McCoy was aware that Shurmur considers him almost a rookie.

"Right, exactly, and that's how it is," he said. "You look across the receiver room, nobody has been in the West Coast in that room. You look at the tight ends, nobody's been in the West Coast except Alex Smith in Tampa Bay. In a sense, we're all learning -- with a rookie quarterback. We've got a lot of room for improvement."

Heading into the bye weekend, McCoy carries a 78.7 QB rating -- No. 24 in the league. He's completed 100 of 172 attempts for 984 yards, with six touchdowns and three interceptions. He's been sacked only six times, but heading into the Titans game, he was tied for first with Chad Henne for most hits after the throw, at 21. He was knocked down another five or six times by the Titans.

His 984 yards are 17th in the NFL, his six TDs are 12th and his 58.1 percent completion percentage is 23rd.

"I'll be the first to tell you that there's a lot of things you can work on, improve on," he said. "It's a process. The guys are working very hard and I know our coaches are working really hard. We've just got to re-group, stay together and keep fighting."

McCoy said the offense is upbeat despite scoring only 13 points against the Titans.

"We're 2-2 going into the bye week," he said. "We've got a chance to make our season or let something slip by again. We'll get out of here after tomorrow and kind of rest, heal up and re-group. Nobody's head is down. We got beat. We didn't play like we wanted to. But the sun's out today and we had a good day."

After the first quarter of the season, the Browns' offense is 25th in scoring at 18.5 points per game. The pass offense is 18th, averaging 235.2 yards.

"I don't think anything has been a disappointment," McCoy said. "We're playing together for the first time. We practice hard. I believe in the guys, I know the receivers and the running backs and the linemen believe in me and the line's doing a nice job.

"When we put it all together, we give ourselves a great chance. But when you're playing a good team, we're not good enough to overcome [mistakes]."

Shurmur said he wouldn't describe McCoy's start in negative terms.

"He's very hard on himself ... but he's very confident as well and I think that's what pulls you through as you're trying to improve."

McCoy said the bye week is a good time for the offense to re-evaluate and adjust.

"What are some plays that we were kind of high on that haven't worked as well?" he said. "Who's the best receiver on what route? What's our best protection? What's our best run schemes? I think the ceiling is tremendously high. I believe that. We've just all got to continue to get to know each other and just move on."

Shurmur admitted he's concerned about the hits. "We focus on it and try to eliminate it," he said. "Let's hope I never have to call 61 passes again."

Left tackle Joe Thomas said McCoy has impressed with his ability to absorb punishment.

"He's a really tough kid," said Thomas. "There's a reason he played all those snaps in college and got all those wins. It's going to take a big hit to knock him out. He's been really impressive from that standpoint."

Thomas said he's already seen McCoy improve greatly in the new scheme.

"I feel like he really did make a nice jump already," said Thomas. "He's a natural leader. He's got all the intangibles and he's a great quarterback. He's got everything you need."

McCoy said he'll stick around here for a few days to study some things, "then I think it's always good in a bye week to get away for a couple days to clear your mind and obviously get a head start on Oakland."

Haden, Cribbs resting: Cornerback Joe Haden and receiver Josh Cribbs sat out Tuesday's practice with their sprained knees, but Shurmur said he's hopeful they'll be able to play Oct. 16 in Oakland. Linebacker Titus Brown (ankle) was idle.

Quick healer? Shurmur said one of the first things center Alex Mack asked for after his appendectomy on Monday was his grade sheet from Sunday's game. He said it's too early to speculate if Mack will be ready for Oakland.

Thomas wasn't that skeptical. "I think even if we didn't have a bye he would've played this weekend," said the lineman. web page

I for one am tired of all of the "fluff" talk. I realize he's a young player in a new system; likewise, we're a young team in a new system. BUT it gets tiresome to read the same "positive" spinning quotes/articles.

I realize Shurmur can't say "Colt isn't the answer", etc. But I just find it to be falling on my own deaf ears anymore. I am trying to be patient without saying "put up or shut up."

Even the voracious Dawgs are tired of Fluff Stuff.. I assume thats how bad it has gotten ..

The way I see this is simple addition.

A few games from last year's debacle season where he was the 3rd QB starting
+
New coaches, and very new systems
+
Being "coached" by Mangini last year (referring to those articles about the silent treatment)
+
Lots of inexperience at other positions
=

Rookie play, rookie mistakes, steep learning curve.

Edit: Oh yeah, and subtract out most of an offseason for learning

Thanks for posting and basically coach is saying what alot of us are saying.
They need to improve. Colt has not shown if he can be the guy yet or not but he see's potential.
Much work needs to be done.

Its all FLUFF,, it means nothing, they are going to tank this year to get into the Luck sweepstakes, Shurmur is a dolt, Holmgren doesn't know anything about QB's, Heckert will be fired on the same day as Shumur. Holmgren will be fired the very next day.

OK,, now that all the crap is out of the way,, Nice article,, yes, some fluffy stuff but there always has to be some I guess.

Couple of things stand out to me..

1. I don't think that Shurmur or the FO has given up on McCoy.. quite the contrary, I still think they believe he can be the guy.

2. Shurmur didn't want to throw the ball 61 times last sunday and he never wants to do it again.

Jury is still out... Time will tell us the truth.

Pretty much what I have been saying. Everyone expects a QB to be some god send from day one especially in Cleveland. Plenty of great quarterbacks looked horrible in their first year or two.

Now think about how many of them didn't have an offseason to prepare for a completely new offensive system with a bunch of other young players and no real veteran leadership at any of the skill positions to show the others how it's done.

Smart read...

We're behind the 8-ball, were making strides to improve and we have to improve. Im okay with all of it

I've never been a big fan of his, going back to his days at Texas. Never thought he had the NFL arm.

I respect that he worked hard on his own time to learn the offense. It seems like he genuinely works hard to try to win. Something I've questioned about most of our QB's lately. I'm trying to be patient.

Big Ben came in as a rookie and id a good job..ugh..sorry... he was big had a good supporting cast... but he was still young...and big.....But now his line sucks and he's gatting knocked on his butt...love it..

Cam Newton... another rookie who is getting some nice games in...He's another big guy....but...new to the system.....

Colt.. smaller QB...new to the system...but he has mentioned how this system was similar to what he played in Texas...

2-2... going into the bye...what concerns me is the teams he has faced...not the greatest D's... whats going to happen when the team faces stronger D's ?

Colt may get things worked out..My biggest concern is Colt and the line get on track...Trust the line...and the WR's may..look a little more open....

Tenn and Cinci are in the top 6 in points against, Miami and Indy are terrible.

I would't say indy is terrible, they are unloading on QBs just ask Tampa and Pitt.

True, I also forgot about that drubbing they took at the hands of the Texans that skews their stats a bit.

It's much too early in his career to pass judgment on Colt McCoy: Terry Pluto
Published: Wednesday, October 05, 2011, 7:47 PM Updated: Wednesday, October 05, 2011, 7:52 PM
Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
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Twelve games.

That's how many Colt McCoy has played as the Browns' quarterback.

Twelve games, as in eight games last season, four this season.

Twelve games is three-fourths of a full NFL 16-game season.

Twelve games under two head coaches, two offensive coordinators and with no receivers who have established themselves in the NFL.

Twelve games have told us little about McCoy, but I recently received at least three emails insisting he's another Charlie Frye.

OK, let's look at that. In 21 games (19 starts) with the Browns from 2005 to '07, Frye threw 14 touchdowns and 23 interceptions while being sacked 71 times.

Who knows what McCoy will become, but I've seen Frye. Even after just 12 games, we know McCoy is no Frye -- not with 12 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions in 12 games.

I received an interesting email from Jim Miller in New York. Some people have said McCoy must become a "Drew Brees-type" quarterback. Let's hope he is even 80 percent of Brees.

But we knew little about Brees after his first 12 games.

He sat his first season (2001) in San Diego.

He started all 16 games of his second season and had 17 touchdown passes, 16 interceptions and a quarterback rating of 76.9. In his second season as a starter (2003), Brees played 11 games and had 11 touchdown passes, 15 interceptions and a 67.5 rating.

McCoy is on pace this season to throw 24 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, complete 58 percent of his passes and have a 78.7 rating.

Brees didn't have a breakout season until his third year as a starter. But with McCoy, we're still talking 12 games.

Joe Maylish emailed some stats from Football Outsiders that suggest McCoy holds the ball too long. That leads to sacks that are his fault. But his sacks, for an average loss of 5.8 yards, are not as damaging as those suffered by other quarterbacks.

He's been sacked 29 times in his 12 games -- he's not a statue waiting to be tackled in the pocket.

So the stats were interesting, but the picture was mixed.

Overall, McCoy stays away from negative plays such as interceptions and sacks.

Obviously, McCoy is not a 6-5 physical specimen with a rocket arm. He's not a "pretty" quarterback in terms of style. That much is obvious after 12 games.

Nor does the job overwhelm him, something else that is clear after 12 games.

Yes, he seemed shaky in the pocket in the second half of Sunday's 31-13 loss. But the Browns were having him throw a franchise-record 61 times, and the Titans' defense was relentlessly blitzing because they had a big lead.

The fact is the Browns came into the season with two guards (Shawn Lauvao and Jason Pinkston) who had started a total of three games. Right tackle Tony Pashos was hurt for the first three games, and while Pashos is a solid lineman, he's not Pro Bowl caliber.

It turns out Pro Bowl center Alex Mack was playing with appendicitis Sunday. No wonder the line had a rough day, as did McCoy.

If you are the opposing defensive coordinator facing the Browns, name a player -- aside from Peyton Hillis -- in an orange helmet who worries you? That gives you an accurate scouting report of the inexperience and lack of impact players at the skilled positions.

McCoy is with a rookie head coach, a new offense, and a team that has lost at least 10 games in nine of the past 12 seasons. The Browns are 14-34 over the past three season.

McCoy was the 10th different Week 1 quarterback since 1999 playing for the fifth different head coach. At some point, all the changing, all the rushing to judgment has to stop.

For McCoy, it's 12 games. For Pat Shurmur, it's four games. For Browns fans, it's time for the dreaded P-word: Patience. Or else it will just be more of the same, more changing coaches, throwing away quarterbacks and making absolutely no progress.

web page

Colt in the sense of QB style reminds me of Bernie Kosar...as a rook in 12 games completed 50% of his passes, had a 6.4 ypa, 8 tds and 7 ints.

in his 2nd year 58.4% completion rate, 7.3 ypa, 17 tds and 10 ints...
3rd year 62% completions, 7.8 ypa, 22 tds and 9 ints...


Thats...so close to Colt's stats its scary. Imagine if we had the same mentality towards QBs in the 80s as we had today. This is a franchise that has thrived on unorthodox/atypical/non-prototypical QBs. Kosar, Sipe, Pruitt, Testaverde...we dont do things the way everyone else does. We should be more tolerant.

We're blaming Colt's inefficiencies on the failures of Quinn, DA, McCown, Garcia, Couch, Holcomb, Butch Davis, Romeo, Mangini...

He has some issues yes, but the kid is improving and working hard to do it, and just because he doesnt do it the way Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and others do it, but he has every chance to get it done.

Kosar took time, so will Colt...

AFC North: QB Report Card
October, 5, 2011
Oct 5
5:00
PM ET

By Jamison Hensley
The AFC North can take pride in the fact that all four teams have defenses in the NFL's top 10. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the quarterbacks of the division. A look at where they stand:

ANDY DALTON, BENGALS

Andy Dalton
Andy Dalton
#14 QB
Cincinnati Bengals

2011 STATS

Att124
Comp72
Yds868
TD4
Int4
Rat76.9

Notes: What has stood out the most has been his poise. His shining moment was leading the Bengals in a comeback win over the previously undefeated Bills last Sunday. Rallying Cincinnati from 14 points down in the second half, he threw a touchdown pass, ran for another score to tie the game and scrambled for a first down in the game-winning drive. Dalton showed his youth in throwing a couple of fourth-quarter interceptions against San Francisco. He also played a big part in the Bengals' 2-for-21 rut on third downs.

QBR: 26.7 (27th)

NFL rating: 76.9 (27th)

Hensley's grade: C-plus

COLT McCOY, BROWNS

Colt McCoy
Colt McCoy
#12 QB
Cleveland Browns

2011 STATS

Att172
Comp100
Yds984
TD6
Int3
Rat78.7

Notes: McCoy's turning point came when he led the Browns to a comeback win over the Dolphins, finding Mohamed Massaquoi for the game-winning touchdown with 43 seconds left on the clock. In his first full season as an NFL starting quarterback, McCoy has shown the ability to throw on the run. He leads the NFL with passing yards out of the pocket (245). His biggest weakness is the lack of a strong arm. He is 29th in the NFL in yards per attempt (5.72), which indicates he doesn't consistently throw the ball deep downfield.

QBR: 42.2 (20th)

NFL rating: 78.7 (24th)

Hensley's grade: C

JOE FLACCO, RAVENS

Joe Flacco
Joe Flacco
#5 QB
Baltimore Ravens

2011 STATS

Att140
Comp69
Yds973
TD7
Int3
Rat79.9

Notes: In the first quarter of the season, Flacco has been the best quarterback in the AFC North for two weeks and has been the worst one in the other two. How's that for consistency? Flacco has been looking downfield more this year, completing 14 passes of over 20 yards (tied for 12th in the NFL). He's been hurt by the injury to Lee Evans, who started to develop a chemistry with Flacco. His biggest problem is when there's pressure. He's gotten better at eluding the rush, but he still doesn't make the best decisions under fire. The low point was Sunday night when he didn't complete a pass in the second or third quarters.

QBR: 15.0 (28th)

NFL rating: 79.9 (22nd)

Hensley's grade: C-minus

BEN ROETHLISBERGER, STEELERS

Ben Roethlisberger
Ben Roethlisberger
#7 QB
Pittsburgh Steelers

2011 STATS

Att138
Comp85
Yds1148
TD3
Int5
Rat80.2

Notes: You feel like Roethlisberger should get graded on a curve because of the injuries to the offensive line. He's taken two low hits right below the knee already this season that might have knocked out other quarterbacks. The only time Roethlisberger looked like himself this year was when he delivered the game-winning drive at Indianapolis. He completed 3 of 4 passes for 39 yards and scrambled for 11 yards to get the Steelers in range for the 38-yard field goal with four seconds left in the game. It's been a dangerous pocket these days for Roethlisberger, who has nearly been sacked (14) as many times as he's thrown 20-plus yard completions (15). The worst part is he leads AFC North quarterbacks in turnovers (five interceptions and four fumbles).

QBR: 35.2 (24th)

NFL rating: 80.2 (20th)

Hensley's grade: C web page

Quote:

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He leads the NFL with passing yards out of the pocket (245). His biggest weakness is the lack of a strong arm.

---

That is simply put,, NOT TRUE

But I don't have much of an argument with the rest of it..

LEARN TO USE THE QUOTE FEATURE

Kinda interesting looking at McCoy's stats and Dalton's stats.

They have exactly the same completion percentage. (58.1%)

McCoy has thrown the ball 48 more times. Despite this, Dalton has 12 pass plays of 20+ yards and 3 of 40+ yards to McCoy's 7 plays of 20+ and 1 of 40+. Despite having 48 more completions, McCoy has only 116 more yards than Dalton.

Man I hope they spend the next week working on getting the ball down the field somehow.

You're correct.
A weak arm isn't his biggest weakness.

let me make up for the above with this:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

an analytical view at stats. DYAR being most valueable total numbers. DVOA most valueable per play (both adjusted for opponents).

Colt McCoy is ranked 17th just behind Roethlisburger and Flacco in DYAR.
Because we pass so much though, that number is probably a bit inflated as can be seen from his DVOA rank of 21.

The more interesting part is that he is solidly in the 'average QB play' by either measure just behind Josh Freeman. And well ahead of more celebrated QBs like Kolb, Sanchez, Bradford, and Cutler.

Dalton is making a lot of horrendous throws but he is getting away with it because Green either comes back the 10 yards it was underthrown and makes the catch or knocks it down.

Oh yeah, that was my only point.

QBs get bailed out by awesome receivers.

to further back that up, check out the Effective Yards for Colt and Dalton (not to mention their DVOA and DYAR values).

Colt's EY are greater than his actual. Dalton's are lower.

here is a quick explanation on EY

Quote:

---

Effective Yards, listed in red, translate DVOA into a yards per attempt figure. This provides an easy comparison: in general, players with more Effective Yards than standard yards played better than standard stats would otherwise indicate, while players with fewer Effective Yards than standard yards played worse than standard stats would otherwise indicate. Effective Yards are not the best way to measure total value because they are more dependent on usage than DYAR.

---

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

I'm cool w/ Colt as a QB.. with time he will only get better and will quicker passes once he gets more confidence in this league..

very interesting. Will have to keep a check on that table and see how it plays out as the year progresses.

Fans are strange lot and thankfully its the people upstairs that will untimatly make that decision on if he is "The Man"