DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The next 7 games will tell the story

While it makes absolute common sense that the lack of an offseason hurt us, I think it's also a convenient excuse to explain away some of the struggles.

For example, say McCoy drops back, fires the ball at his first option who's running a quick post pattern, and McCoy puts it two feet out in front of him. I think we might be able to say there's a timing issue there. Maybe McCoy misjudged the speed of the receiver or maybe the receiver was late in his break. We can certainly look at that and say the lack of an offseason, the lack of familiarity is hurting us.

Or let's say McCoy drops the ball in a zone where he expected the receiver to sit down and the receiver continues up field into coverage. They weren't seeing the same thing. That could be due to lack of an offseason, inexperience, lack of familiarity.

Those are just two examples but I'm just not seeing those types of the things. I'm seeing hesitation, uncertainty, and panic from the QB position. And a whole lot of uncomfortableness.

I am being very hard on McCoy. I don't buy or believe for one second the WRs aren't getting open. He isn't doing what he's being told or coached to do. That has nothing to do with lack of an offseason and everything to do with McCoy. You don't need to be a star receiver to get open in this league. Look around the league at the names at WR putting up numbers. It's crazy.

The point is our offensive problems are in McCoys head and possibly his arm. He needs to start trusting himself a little more. That has everything to do with him and nit much to do with lack of an offseason, new coach, new system.

After skimming through 2 pages of this, I want to say

The lack of an off-season is an EXCUSE!

Just like being an expansion team was an excuse in 99, and 2000.

If we can just admit that the Browns don't know what to do during a football that gets them to compete. Even when they do well it is in spite of their own missteps, Usually

Lets face it when this team has a chance to follow a winning formula they follow parts of 3 different formulas each of which could win or lose but none of which looks like they stuck with it start to finish.

Lack of talent is another excuse, and I don't beleive it anymore, I don't think this team lacks talent but moreso it lacks winning decisions.

This is going to be a good chance to Judge the Coaching abilities of the Head Coach, in the next few games they will be on the Road against both San Francisco, and Oakland, and NEITHER team will they be favored to win, And I beleive the Mark of a good coach is beating a team nobody expected you to win.
So if they can get wins vs San Fran, or Oakland, or ANY TEAM IN THE DIVISION FOR THAT MATTER then they may have something to build on.

After 4 weeks there's something I think I know

Mark Campbell is better than Colt McCoy and It's not even close
Eli Manning is better than Colt McCoy and it's not even close.

Oh I don't want to hurt the young quarterbacks confidence, I mean they don't have Jake Delhomme to go back to anymore.
Kind of llike when Ceasar, or Alexander, or one of the Romans burnt the boats of his army after a beach landing giving them no opportunity of retreat, victory or death.

Well Colt McCoy is no Roman Legion. ( even my split personality is saying what the? to that comment.)

Othervwise, they are NOT a 3-13 team they are a 2-2 team and Not everybody expected this team to win 3-7 games this year, I expected them to win 10, but Where is the improvement?
Where is the improvement?
If they get to 4-6 that's still not improvement from the 2-1 start, they've started 2-5 for 3 years straight I think I read, and it's still possible.

Hey just get to 3-4, just get to 3 and freaking 4, is there any improvement at all?
Well if they can beat the teamss in the division it would be improvement but if the Browns are allreay mathmatically eliminated by the time they play the next division game then a win in that division game wouldn't mean as much anyway .

After some of the throws I saw today from other quarterbacks I think Colt McCoy DOES have a weak arm.

And anyone arguing that a coach can't know what a player can do in 10 weeks, ... I can't beleive that.

General reply

We started 2009 1-11, we started 2010 0-5, we start 2011 with 2 wins and 2 loses. We could be playing better but it is what it is. We are a team in transition trying to win as we try to evolve.

Colt and this offense can be playing flawless football but right now as a unit this offense will find a way to kill the momentum. 6 or 7 good plays ends with a dropped pass, a false start, missed blocking assignment, poor throw, end around to cribbs on 3rd down, quick snap, fumble.

We can throw some of the blame on shortened offseason. We can throw some of the blame on the youth and inexperience. We can throw some on the fact we are still learning the offense as we go but man the injuries in preseason I believe is the biggest reason for our inability to show consistency as an offense.

Hardesty was recovering and missed pretty much all of camp and preseason and is just now starting to look like a real RB.

Pashos missed half of preseason and 3 games thus far. Peyton's agent wouldn't let him come out and play against Miami.

Mitchell still hasn't recovered from his broke finger.

Cribbs has battled hammy and Groin injuries since the first week of camp.

Mo missed all but one week of preseason due to ankle injury and he has battled both hammy and groin injuries since then.

Steinbach was lost for the season.

Evan Moore missed with the concussion and he has not looked the same since that hit.

Ben Watson missed almost all of preseason with injuries as well.

It is easy to say all these things are just excuses and that is exactly what they are but they are also the truth. How the hell are you supposed to have your timing and chemistry down when these guys just never had a chance to develop it.

We have seen glimpses of this offense when it is working. It isn't enough and no one is saying it is but those are the baby steps. It will improve but it will take some time. Our growth was just stunted with so much chaos.

I still believe this is going to be a very good year and despite the whining and moaning this team is 1 game out of first place in the division. This time last year we were umm 4 games out lol.

I think we're seeing the same things. Where we differ is that I attribute most of the struggles to the lack of an off-season including "...hesitation, uncertainty, and panic from the QB position. And a whole lot of uncomfortableness."

For some reason I think those are exactly the type of things I can expect as a result of the lack of coached practice time. I know you have already, but think about it, hesitation, uncertainty, uncomfortableness. Those are the things you practice in a new scheme to get rid of.

This is not to say that our talent level doesn't matter but I think we have enough talent to do a lot better than what we've been seeing.

The one thing that bothers me greatly about Colt is his less than accurate throws. He's not been as good at that as last year. Balls thrown low, behind receivers, overthrows and the like surprise me. It's not like he didn't throw all off-season. I don't know where this is coming from.

I have no reason to defend Colt McCoy or Pat Shurmur with excuses. During the lockout there was much ado about how the lack of an off-season would hurt teams who were changing coaches and the Browns were always at the top of that list. It seemed everyone understood that then. Now that the games have started it seems the lack of preparation time has been brushed aside and called excuses.

I attribute that mostly to the well worn fact that all of us hate losing and want to see more promise from our team. But I don't care who you are or what you're doing, experience makes a difference.

Shurmur did say, when he said he pretty much views Colt as a rookie of sorts, that he should be making large jumps of improvement as this goes on.

We'll see. I hope so.

I think that Pinkston has played pretty well overall. Sure there have been a couple of blow plays here or there, but overall he looks like he belongs.

Lauvoa is the bigger concern to me. He's got decent mobility, but he looks lost sometimes, and he gets overpowered more often than I would like.

I hinted at things should get easier as Colt gets more starts, but good point on the off-season, or lack of one.

Again, I think we are now at the point we can't really use that as much. We have 4 games under the belt and a off week. At some point we should see the rust go away and start seeing the well oiled machine we hope to see.

I don't know if we are there or not, but it has to be close...at least from a timeline basis. If we still look choppy and lost in week 10, is that due to a short off season??

I don't think so.

I may be pushing things up a bit and not giving the lack of a off season enough weight, but we are nearing the point where we can't use that.

Maybe we need to spend less time game planning and more working on the timing issues, or maybe we have been doing that and lack of a full gameplan has been our issue. Either way, that should just about be ironed out.

My only point in this is we have some winnable games over the next 7 games and are at the point where some of the issues that have contributed to our problems shouldn't be problems any longer.

Realistically, no, we won't win 6 of the next 7....but we should.

General Reply....

As Usual the Cleveland Fan Base makes a mountain out of a molehill.

Is Colt McCoy going to be a bust or a Superstar??? You know what??? We haven't seen enough to make that kind of determination. But you know, I think we have seen enough to think it is going to be closer to Superstar than Bust. Even if all he will ever be is a Game Manager...

I think people are putting too much emphasis on the OTA's on BOTH sides of the equation. On one side you have people trying to dismiss OTA's as "just an excuse"....And that is BS. It is a crock. The lack of OTA's is having a dramatic effact on this team....

but then...

You have the other side who try to make it seem as if we had OTA's that this offense would be clicking on all cyllinders and Colt would be kicking a ton of butt right now. That is a ton of BS too. The OTA's were not going to make a large impact on this team THIS YEAR. Oh sure...the coaching staff may have a btter idea of which personnel packages work best together, and the timing would be a "little" better. But we are still dealing with a completely new offense in which only the back up TE has ever participated in. Not only that but it is probably the hardest Offense in the league to install. If people want to point to Sam Bradfords success last year...also point to the fact that the rest of his team had already been in the offense for a full year and had 2 full OTA's.

Someone mention Colt holding the ball to long...that is aan issue....part of that is his (and his team's) lack of time in the offense. He is going through his progressions...1...2...3.....Here is the problem...each read takes a little time, and by the time he gets to 3 he will be late getting the ball to him. Eventually...with more time he and his receivers will be on the same page...he will automatically know he can skip reads 1 & 2 and go directly to 3. Heck He is not the only person that has to read the defenses...each and every player on that field has to read that Defense and each and everyone of them has to read it the SAME WAY. And if one of them reads it wrong and runs the wrong route...it blows the play up, a zone isn't cleared,a zone route is run instead of a man route,a block isn't made...etc. Frankly.....we don't have the time in this offense to be executing it like the 80's 49'ers...

So when we se Colt holding the ball a bit...then yes the offense stalls some...But then you see when he is able to go, step, step, step, throw...and go at a nice quick pace...like the comeback against Miami...He will rip a Defense apart. Now granted that was against a prevent D...BUT...here is the point...It was about his understanding and the teams understanding on attacking on those plays that shows the execution that is possible. And it also shows the understanding that is possible with timein the offense.

Anyone who is expecting a great offense and Colt to look great this year is fooliong themselves. Even by the end of this year. They are going to show some improvement...But don't expect a smooth flowing offense by the end of the year...I would however expect to see some signs of an offense that could become one....And When the OTA's are applied next year, and another full year in the offense, I think by the end of next year we will have a CLEAR picture of what this offense will be able to do...When someone says, the next 7 games will tell the story...I am sorry, I have to laugh....they won't tell us SQUAT....Next years first 4 games wil tell us infinitely more than the next 7.

But here is the problem....we are Cleveland Fans and we are MORONS and we won't ever have the patience to let that happen.

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Is Colt McCoy going to be a bust or a Superstar??? You know what??? We haven't seen enough to make that kind of determination.

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Been saying that for a while.. But for the most part, it falls on deaf ears...

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but then...

You have the other side who try to make it seem as if we had OTA's that this offense would be clicking on all cyllinders and Colt would be kicking a ton of butt right now.

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I'm probably leaning more this way except that I don't know if OTA's and Minis would have helped or not. But if you think about it, if teams didn't feel they were important, they wouldn't have them.. so my guess is the league as a whole feels they are important.

Those dismissing them apparently don't feel as the league does.

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Anyone who is expecting a great offense and Colt to look great this year is fooliong themselves.

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LOL they are more than fooling themselves. I guess I didn't expect them to be the 49ers of the Montana or Young era... But I get the feeling that some heard "west coast offense" and instantly had visions of that being the case.

Almost an impossible mission. Especially when the decision was made to build this team through the draft which I think everyone would concede, takes more time.

I just think to know for sure what we have and to see the true direction of this team, we can't know after 4 games.. Just don't think it's really possible.

Are people really INCREASING their won/loss predictions with this team?

8-3 featuring a 6 of 7 streak would be an unprecidented turn of events for our Browns. It would almost guarantee a 9-10 win season.

I'm all for bye-week improvement and would love to see the team finally gel into a team that can compete each week, but 6 of 7 to get to 8 &3 is a freakin pipe dream.

Oakland is going to be extremely difficult to get by. The 49ers are playing great. Seattle just shocked the Giants and play well every week. Maybe a shot against the Jags and Rams but who knows?

I see 2 wins if we're playing WELL over that stretch with the season getting away from us in a 1995 way over the last 5 weeks.

Rishuz:

I understand why you are being hard on McCoy, I also understand the frustration around here about not winning...but the blame is not placed in the right area.

Colt McCoy has had two different Offensive Coordinators in only 12 games...thats unheard of...you ask ANY great QB or any QB that has played in the NFL...as any expert....that will hamper the growth of your QB...it will drastically slow down the improvement and growth of your QB....if you look at every other above average QB in this league they have had the luxary of keeping the same Offensive system and same OC for more then 12 games...more like 2-3 years....

You also must remember, its not only Mccoy learning a new O system...the entire team is...the WR, TE, RB, OL, everyone is "unsure" of themselves in this system because they are only 4 games into it....as the O gets from "thinking about what to do" to "just doing it like instinct" there are going to be hiccups in this system.

The blocking system of the OL has changed completely from the system Daboll had....it takes time....as with everything else.

Also many are over valuing our WR...we have probably the worst starting group of WR in the entire NFL...Cam Newton is setting the world on fire...he also has a bona fide premier WR in Steve Smith who has been tearing it up....Cam Newton has a big time "go to guy" in Smith...the dude is a bona fide playmaker....he is like Superman in a bottle.....Newton is benefitting from that big time...he has a WR who tells him "Hey you just throw that ball in my direction i won't let you down" and so far Smith hasn't...you can see the confidence and poise in Newtons eyes when he throws that ball Smith's way...Smith goes up and gets it he gets that ball no matter where its thrown....we have no one like this.

The closest player we had to this was Kellen Winslow Jr and we traded him....Winslow was a big time playmaker in the passing game...2 80+ plus catch seasons back to back....we have no threats at WR....none.....

Look at the Patriots...they have Welker who is setting record, Branch a former super bowl MVP and two upper echleon Te in Gronkowski and Hernadez....Welker was a "beast" in miami....its more then the QB.....its way Bellichik went full brunt to get Welker....because Welker was good in Miami....even with a bum at QB there...

Colt McCoy will grow and he will get better, but we need to stay the course with Colt right now...its way too soon to be talking about drafting QB's....its only 13 games....it took Holmgren 3 years to develop Hasselbeck...Hasselebeck spent two of those years on the bench in Green Bay....things didn't just click with Hasselbeck overnight....it takes time...

Our Front Office needs to ficus on bringing in a WR, LB, DE, S, RT, and continue the course with McCoy....after 3 full years of starting, if McCoy hasn't reached the barometer of what Holmgren thinks, then you get a QB at least you will have built a solid team around the guy coming in if McCoy doesn't pan out.

I however don't believe that will happen....i think we lack skill at the skill positions and as we upgrade those positions, McCoy production will upgrade in turn.

our WR are terrible...they are horrible....we lack speed on the outside..we have no Wr that keep D playing honest...they are not scared of getting beat deep by our guys...they play man on the outside and stack the box....if we still had B-Easy...you would see things open up much more....we lack playmakers at those positions....

I wouldn't be suprised this offseason is Heckert doesn't bring in a decent WR, and draft another with 1 of our two first rounders....with OL being the other....

this FO is going to give McCoy the tools he needs to be a winner....and if it don't work, then we will move in another direction at QB...but don't be suprised if Holmgren doesn't take another late rd QB this coming draft to stash away in the wings to wait and see if Colt don't develop.

Its too soon to put everything at the feet of McCoy....look at Big Ben...he has like 5 lost fumbles, 6 INTS, this past sunday was the only game he has played "decently" in...it goes to show you....its not all the QB...Ben has been ovrall terrible this year and the lack of a real ground game and blocking on the OL is why....the same as colt....now Ben played well this past sunday, but so did the rest of his team...prior to that..their team has played like trash, and as the team goes...Ben goes...its way too soon.

We need to be patient and ride this thing out....this clamouring for a new QB every 8-10 games is knee jerk...its no wonder we struggle every year....all the experts say the biggest problem with this team is no stability at QB....we have marched out more starting QB on opening day in the last decade then any other team...we have probably set an NFL record for that...you cna't expect to grow anything if you won't stick with it.

This piling on McCoy is like planting a seed in the ground, pouring water on it and expecting it to sprout out of the ground in 2 days...its totally illogical...

we need to be patient and let things run....and focus on building a complete team....if 2 years down the road McCoy don't work out then draft a QB...but focus on building the team first.....so that way the guy we do draft (if we have too) will at least come in to a decent situation....as it stands right now...this is not an ideal situation for any QB...let alone a kid making his 14th start with 2 different OC in that time frame...

I originally thought, based on the schedule, and on the team itself, that we should win 7-9 games. (with 6 being the absolute minimum acceptable number of wins)

Now I'm thinking that we might be lucky to win 5.

I am coming around to the view that we should be really bad if we can't be really good. Might was well get 3 huge impact players in this draft if we can. (Unless we can trade for Luck ... but I think that's unlikely. No team wants to trade away another Peyton Manning ... and he is considered the best QB prospect since Manning was drafted)

I looked at the schedule at the beginning of the season and I said...DANG....there isn't a "SHOULD" Win Game on this schedule. there may have been a few "COULD" win games...not one SHOULD win.

I looked at the schedule against a horrible NFC West, mixed in with 2 games against a really bad Bengals team with no real answer at QB. (at least in the 1st game) Then we add in a Titans team that stunk last year ..... a Dolphins team that has no QB ..... and under-performing teams like the Texans, Jaguars, and Cardinals, and I don't see any games, outside of the 4 games against the Ravens and Steelers where we would be huge underdogs. (If not outright favored)

We get to play a lot of young QBs. We get to play a lot of teams with QBs who have not had the greatest of success yet in their careers.

Kevin Kolb, in his 1st year with the Cardinals.
Sam Bradford whose team has disintegrated around him.
Alex Smith, who appears to have finally had the light come on past "dim".
Tavaris Jackson, who has never done anything at all in his career thus far.

Rookie starters we'll face are Gabbert and Dalton.

Compare this schedule to the meat grinder we went through last year and this is a walk in the park.

Yeah, there are several games we should win in this schedule. We won 5 last year against a much, much more difficult schedule .. we should win at least 6 or 7 this year.

of the teams we have coming up:

Oakland, Houston, and SF all have looked much better than expected this season.

Seattle may have a team coming together the way they have played the past few weeks.

StL and JAX have looked bad.

Then, we play Cinci (who already beat us) and then finish with the meat-grinder of Balt 2X, Pitt 2X w/ AZ mixed in on a very long road-trip - 4 of those this year)

I think we end up managing to win a few more games, but realistically, we are going to be underdogs in almost all of the games. And heavy ones in quite a few.

Who would've guessed that the NFC West might not be the weakest division this year?

Agreed Peen we should start seeing improvement. If Colt still looks this bad at the end of the year I'll begin to worry. For now...shrug....I kind of expected some growing pains do to no real off season. Next year with a full year under his belt as the starter, the 2nd year in the same offense, and his first off season getting starter reps we need to see leaps and bounds improvement.

He has shown me enough that I'm not ready to give up on him, but the kid has alot of questions still to answer yet.......hope he does.

First post here. Visiting fan.
I didn't register to talk trash and troll folks, only want to talk football with fans of an opposing team.

Reading through this thread reminds me of how the Niner message boards were last year and really for the last 10 years. We've been stinking the NFL up and a lot of people put all the blame on Alex Smith. He didn't deserve it. It was all in the coaching.

This season he has a coach that believes in him and calls plays that Alex can be successful in.

The Niners started 0-5 and finished 6-10 last year. Now, with essentially the same players but a new head coach and supporting coaches, we're 4-1. And our one loss came in overtime by a field goal. I'll spare you the littany of flowery stats. Suffice to say, the Niners are a damn good football team this year!

The point is, in today's NFL, a team can go from "worst to first" in a single season. Colt McCoy is a great QB. I watched him here at Texas. All he needs is a little experience and an O-line that protects him and gives him some time to throw. A decent running game helps too.

SO, take it easy on the young lad. He'll come around for ya. It only took Alex Smith 7 seasons and 6 offensive coordinators before he did. lol

Welcome to the Dawg Pound, T9F.

What you'll find here at DT'ers is a passionate (and in some cases) "informed" bunch of rabid fans.... with opinions that somtimes push each others' buttons. It's a great place to hang out, learn a little bit about The Game, and just toss around thoughts about Our Favorite Team.

You're off to a good start with this post- a lack of smack will go far toward getting you respect from his bunch.

As to your post: the running debate here is whether Colt McCoy is a true "NFL QB." Some think that our new(ish) FO, brand new coaching staff, and all-new O are holding him back. Others have watched his mechanics, decisions, and execution.... and have made claims that he's another "teaser" who will keep us from finding the true "Franchise QB" we've been lacking since the Browns made their return to the NFL. For my own pat, the jury's still out.

I hope that you'll hang in with this robust gathering of rabid fans, and give us an outsidere's POV. A pack of Dawgs has been known to turn upon itself, from time to time... and an "outsider's voice" could provide a much-needed P.O.V.

For the record.... I'm "on the fence" concerning Colt. I think he has an abundance of "intagibles" that can make for a great player, but he's also shown just enough weaknesses to promote lots of debate here on the boards.

Bottom line: It's still just too early to tell with Colt... which is why there's so much talk about him here at DT.

Sorry to be the first to inform you... but you're already "knee-deep" into it now.... (hehehe)

Hope you stick around for The Long Haul, bro- We're a good bunch of fans.... and who knows? -You might even catch yourself becoming a Browns fan, after hanging with us for awhile.

hey Tex,
Good 1st post and welcome to the boards. You'll find alot of very rabid fans here.

Right now I think that probably about 70% perhaps more want to truely give McCoy a chance and understand that there will be growing pains.
The problems begin and end with the HC for the most part because hes trying to install a new offensive scheme on the fly.

We have a decent (instead of T5) OL only because of some key injurys. We have a RB who is a FB who is a beast when givin the chance. However the coach isnt using him the way most of us expected him to be used.
Sprinkle in the teams inexperance with WCO and switching from a 3-4 to the 4-3 and we end up with alot to talk about this year.

It will come with time because as you said you cant keep changing everything everyear.

There's been a lot of talk about alot of things and we have some very very detailed discussions, but I wanna take a step back and look at all things, through 4 games and 5 weeks of the NFL season and how the Browns relate.

First...if the draft was today. we would be drafting 15th or 16th as there are 14 teams in the NFL with records worse than ours and the Dallas Cowboys have the same record. Teams that would be drafting before us are the Jets, Dolphins, Jags, Colts, Chefs, Broncos, Eagles, Bears, Vikings, Falcons , Panthers, Seahawks, Cardinals, Rams.

Logistically that puts us in the middle of the league. Somewhere we have not been in YEARS through 5 weeks.

Our next 6 games are:
@ Oakland (3-2)
v. Seattle (2-3)
@ SF (4-1)
@ Houston (3-2) (ouch tough 2 in a row)
v. STL (0-4)
v. Jax (1-4)

Looking at the schedule, we should win the 3 at home, and should lose the 3 on the road. Thats how the records would show it...and if you watch the way the teams play...that makes sense.

However, all 3 of the teams with better records than us, all have flaws and are beatable, as are we. If we can get through there at 5-5...things will look very good for us.

The Raiders are just coming off an emotional win, and with a week for it to set in, may be drained a little bit (or alot) and have a division game next week before their bye. Theyre ripe to be picked right now.
Seattle we get off their bye, but there is uncertainty at the QB position as its yet unknown is TJack will be good to go.
We also get SF off their bye before they take a trip to Washington in an important game, after a game v. Detroit and a bye. Dangerous for us.
Houston plays Jax before and a trip to TB after...not necessarily a trap game, but division game, then road trip against solid team, and Houston struggles in the red zone...could be a down game for them
STL plays GB, Dallas, NO their next 3 before playing Arizona on the road, then us. If they lose their next 3, the wheels will be off.
the Jags have 3 games against Pit, Bal, and Houston before their bye and could be 1-7 then...the wheels will be off. After the bye, they go Indy and us...get the win v. Indy, then fall back to earth v. Us...


We have 2 tough games in there as it seems schedule wise. Houston and SF show no weaknesses that way. if we're 6-4 at that point...we'll be ahead of schedule.


As for our roster.

Theres plenty of positives, negatives and room for improvements:

Positives:
DL: Taylor has been great, Sheard has been great since the move, Rubin has been great, and Mitchell has been good enough and i think is improving, but would best be served as depth (maybe English will make a Benard type impact?) Our biggest strength. No runners have gashed us up the middle like in years past. big runs have gone outside. Weve also rushed the passer well (Tennessee notwithstanding)

Haden, Skrine, Patterson: These 3 have been very good to this point. This part of our secondary have been very solid. If one develops into a starter, it will eliminate our need for a high end draft pick at this spot...if Dockery can develop, then itll eliminate a need to draft at all a CB

RB: Okay so the storylines say otherwise, but Hardesty has looked good, and Smith hasnt looked like a non-RB in their small samples. If the rotation can be ironed out comfortably (and other teams can do it so should we) we have a REAL strength here. Pay Hillis

OL rookies: Strength...heres why, we havent done amazing, but these guys are new, in a new system, and have acquitted themselves okay. Theyre playing on level with Mack as he did as a rookie. If we solidify the RT spot, our OL could take big strides and be amazing

TE: All of them have been great so far. Watson and Moore catch TDs, Smith has been great blocking. Now we just have to find a smart rotation for them, and use them accordingly, and not in ways thatll give it away when theyre out there.


Negatives:

Sheldon Brown: He's played horribly so far.

RT spot: Equally horrible

FS: The rotation has taken away any consistency. Adams has been better, but Young continues to take away snaps. Not sure why. I think Adams is close to being very good. He seems to have the mentality as a FS that Jauron likes, quick, ball hawking and is rarely out of position. To this point he's been a step behind INTs alot this year...thatll change when he stops thinking and can just react.

WRs: not named Little or Massaquoi that is: Robo has been non-existant. Cribbs has been spotty (due to injury) and not really used to his strengths, and Norwood only gets garbage time snaps. MoMass could actually stand to improve too. Little needs to keep improving.


Room for improvements:

MoMass and Little: See above. Just need to play better and get better timing. Cribbs too.

Playcalling: Weve moved around the lineup too much and its hurt continuity. We coul;d make changes by the drive, or the situation, but we should have 4-5 plays in a row per sub group...maybe move in 1 guy, but 4ish per play has to stop. Improvements there could really help. More consistency in personnel groupings, and a more legitimate heirarchy of playing time/depth chart.

QB: Colt hasnt been elite. But he hasnt been a weakness, he is playing like a newbie, and needs to continue to improve. Set his feet and make throws. Needs to trust his guys and sometimes just throw it in there. Let his guys make the plays. Right now, at QB our QB is making the passing plays and the results have been what weve seen. Let your pass catchers make plays or at least give them the chance. That doesnt mean on screen plays...on their routes, let them get open and be in the right spot and give it to em. If it gets knocked down or incompleted or even int'd, then we fix things...but trust your guys more, set your feet more, and get the ball upfield more.

LBs: Gocong and DQ have been good, DQ has been great. Fujita has been subpar. Were giving up big runs to the outside, not in the middle which means we've done well in gap integrity but not in pursuit.

Safety: TJ has to play better, and Adams/Young need to get better. its been the downfall of our secondary.

Discipline: We havent had a ton of it. Running the right routes. Penalties. Defensive responsibilities. Tackling. Many things discipline have been missing and need to come back. Improvement.





The big picture looks good right now. We have the youngest team in the NFL, we have several rookie/2nd year starters and are 2-2.

2-2 with a very manageable path to 5-5. If we can get to 5-5, playing Cincy, a schizophrenic Pit, Baltimore, and AZ...we could get to 8-8 by beating Cincy, Pit once, and Az.

8-8 was a high end expectation for most of us. We're on path to get there. Weve beaten the teams we have a better record than, and lost to teams with a better record than us. Both Ls the teams a 3-2, and one we shouldve had.

The future is bright, and the post-bye assessment to me looks like theres only a few things that have been outright bad. Theres many that need to be improved, but thats a good thing for a young team at 2-2.

I see our next 4 games a bit more daunting than you do.

Oakland has been playing great and this Sunday will be the first home game since Al's passing (complete with pregame ceremonies, etc.). I don't think they'll have a hangover from the Houston win, I think they will be amped (and I've mentioned why I think they are a bad matchup for us in the Oakland threads)

Seattle is playing well after a horrid start to the year. It is a game we could win, but not one we should win by any stretch. It's at home to a team traveling cross-country, so we should be slight favorites. But, it's going to be a tough game for both offenses.

SF is playing over their heads right now. I think. I hope. Then again, I've always felt they have a ton of talent but never could quite put it together. It's possible Harbaugh is doing just that.

Houston is playing really well despite their record and I am hoping they beat Baltimore and win a few more before they play us (so they are not desperate for a win). They are a better team than we are (but we have beaten better teams before).

StL and JAX are both in the same boat that we are. They are starting over with alot of youth and trying to find some consistency. We should at least split those 2 games and hopefully can sweep them. That would build some confidence for sure.

Yes, we can get to 5-5, but I think it's a more likely 4-6. Our offense will need to wake up and our defense will need to continue being stout (and stop giving up the big plays like they did w/ Tenn).

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I agree with all of your positive notes.

I agree with most of your negative notes outside of these:

Gocong has not been good. He's been okay in stretches and bad in others. He has got to get better recognition skills or he is always going to be a step late to the play because he does not have elite speed to make up for it.

I disagree on Adams being good as well. Especially in the Tenn game, he took horrible angles on the ball and was tentative in tackling (getting caught sitting on his heels rather than attacking the runner).

I also agree on the future being bright. We, as you mention, are the youngest team in the NFL and the fact that we are getting the kids reps is great for our team moving forward. I just suspect we are going to have some more reality checks along the way and it's going to be a struggle to get to more than 6 wins this year. Hopefully, I am underselling it and we will get it together and rip through some of these teams. I'll definitely be cheering for it.

Nice work kingsteve.

Here's my problem with trying to project our wins and losses and that is that I have not seen any reason to know what to expect from this team on any given Sunday in part due to our youth and inexperience. I somewhat expected this, but I also expected to see some consistency from week to week and I have yet to see much in the way of consistency from any position on the team, with exception to the kicking game.

We have yet to figure out how to best use our talents in this new offence. Moore, Hillis ect...

(imo) Gocong has played sub-par, for a player who was just given a contract extension.

Just a thought, but .....

Maybe we need to flip flop he and Fujita and let Gocong handle the TE coverage responsibilities.
After all Jauron raved about Gocong's speed and coverage abilities in a presser.

Seattle is playing well after a horrid start to the year. It is a game we could win, but not one we should win by any stretch.

Marshawn Lynch has owned us.

I had a heck of a time trying to line up all the columns so I only did the oldest, youngest and the Browns. Oldest is ranked No.1 overall. Youngest is ranked No. 32 overall. Looks like we're the 8th youngest.



Code:

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 2011 NFL Age Ranks at 53-man Cutdown

Team 	                          Defense 	   Offense 	   Specialists 	        Overall

Pittsburgh Steelers 	              1 	      13 	         20 	             1

Cleveland Browns 	             22 	       28 	          8 	            25

Tampa Bay Buccaneers 	             32 	      32 	          32 	            32 

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espn

this is all players though, right? i have a hard time believing that another team has younger starters. or, at least, as many starters that have come out of the last 2 draft classes.

building on what DJ brought up earlier (starters coming out of Heckert's drafts):

2010
1: Haden – starter
2: Ward – starter
2: Hardesty – rotational player
3: McCoy – starter
3: Lauvao – starter
5: Asante – gone (TB)
6: Mitchell – non-active 53 man roster
6: Geathers – gone (DAL)

2011
1: Taylor – starter
2: Sheard – starter
2: Little – starter
4: Cameron – non-active 53 man roster
4: Marecic – starter
5: Skrine – rotational player
5: Pinkston – injury replacement starter
7: Hagg – practice squad?

That is just ridiculous for the last 2 drafts.

Starters = 9
Rotational Players = 2
Non-Active members of the Browns = 3
No longer on Browns = 2

So far, we have hit on at least 11/16 picks and have not missed on anything higher than a 4th round pick. That is absolutely ridiculous and if we can continue to hit at any rate even close to that success then we will be a consistent contender moving forward.

also, Skrine may be an injury replacement starter for Haden this week (w/ Patterson staying to cover slot)

either way, we have 9/22 starters being from the last 2 draft classes right now. this makes me feel better about the growing pains we have been seeing so far this year and a bit more hopeful that we can continue to progress (for some reason I never really thought of it this way until I laid it all out like that)

While that looks great and I really liked both drafts, it will mean nothing if most of those players don't become AVG or better NFL starters...right now only Haden is an above AVG NFL starter...Taylor is already playing near or at AVG level, which considering his position is outstanding...Ward is a decent SS but the typical AVG SS is good vs run and bad vs pass and so is he....most of the others show promise but aren't there yet and some probably never will get there

To build on Django's post, one other thing to consider is the talent present before those players were drafted.

It would be one thing for Phil Taylor to come in and start if he were drafted by the Steelers or some team with a extremely high level of talent already present on the team. The Browns didn't have a whole lot of talent, so our first-rounders pretty much have to start.

I'm not saying that's the whole reason. I'm just saying that's part of it.

I agree with both you and DJ. It is just that our past drafting has not given us this much immediate success. After the Titans game and going into what should be a rough matchup, I needed a glimmer of hope. This is a pretty good glimmer.

Quote:

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Realistically, no, we won't win 6 of the next 7....but we should.

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Realistically...We should..why not..? Detroit is 5-0...

In the next 7...It would be nice to get players healthy..Hopefully no more injuries..

See the youngsters make improvements... start gelling...get the continuity flowing..
All the stuff a younger team needs to do...Including the HC...

Call taxi's for players with no / suspended licenses..Or have them catch a ride with a fellow player..Oh them off field antics...

And really... why does a team do contract business during the dang season... Get it done before it starts...useless distractions..Deal with it for the season boys..then talk.

Not sure what the story ending will be after the next 7....Sure would be nice that it ends with a play-off game..That would be the pre-fix... The other ending would be like ground hog day...

I don't expect much..Never did...

OK....I agree Bill...I want to send in my playoff ticket money at least once.



"Mr. Ballpeen, your team is in the playoff hunt. To secure your right to watch the Browns, live from you seats, please submit your payment for X dollars by such and such a date."


Sounds good. My Visa is ready and waiting!!


On a personal note....I wish you could make a game. I enjoy sitting with you.