DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Re: People Should Occupy Wall Street

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Many can't find jobs, many are in trouble through NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.

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Who's fault is it that people lived beyond their means? Who's fault is it that they bought a house they can't afford or ran up their credit cards and ran up a bunch of debt?

Unless you have a lot of cash in the bank, most are going to be in trouble financially if you lose your job and can't find one right away.

If you can't see that many are in trouble due to the loss of jobs, then nothing I say will ever show you.

Sorry, but the "protests" with the banks were some of the most misinformed people I have ever seen in my life.

Also, a few people showing up at a few banks is hardly a widespread movement. It is a few people showing up at a few banks.

As far as the videos .... perhaps the bank security and police said that the protesters could not take megaphones, weapons, and so on into a bank. (which is a place of business) we conveniently cannot hear what the security people tell the protesters.

I am saying that many places are overestimated by a factor of 5-6 ...... but let's use the highest number I have seen anyway.

Using that number, the protests are still rather insignificant, except for their nuisance factor.

So, 1.7 million people, in 82 countries. There are about 7 billion people in the world.

Tell you what, I could rally over 1.7 million people to protest that the sky is green.

Or better yet, it wouldn't even take organization - and I could get a minimum of 10 million people in the u.s. alone to say there is a God.

But 1.7 million people out of some 7 billion - and that's a large number?

Let's call a skunk a skunk. You don't like the OWS because you think they are super liberal democrats who oppose your Tea Party's views.

Why don't you and Sarah organize a hippie hunting party and rid the planet of this vile filth, you'd be doing your rich masters a favor. LOL! Did you even read the way you described them? Ridiculous.

Arch and DC are leaning that way too. (Not as bad as you)

Do original thoughts or acts of humanity ever make it into the koolaid mix? Your Party line is pointing straight at stupid! These are people. They are suffering during economic tough times. You probably know some of them. Many of them are hard working people.

Oh, the nobility of the Tea Party was JUST QUESTIONED. The Tea Party might have started noble, but now it's just another bought and paid for branch of the Republic lunatic fringe. I have house plants more capable of logical thought than 50% of the Tea Party Klan.

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Many of them are hard working people.

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Hard working people would be out there looking for a job instead sitting on their butt and complaining that life isn't fair.

I admit that I don't like most of the OWS protest's political views. I thought I made that abundantly clear.

That being said, I also do not like the things that I outlined.

If the Tea Party were defecating on police cars, I would not support that type of action. If they were violent, committing rapes, and generally being urban terrorists, I wouldn't support that. (and yes, I understand the historic perspective of the original Tea Party, which was violent) However, I do not support violence. I do not support drug use. I do not support having sex in public, and potentially in front of children. I do not support the violent overthrow of out government. In short, there is one thing that I could agree at all with the OWS movement on, and all kinds that I strongly disagree with them on.

I do agree that the government should not have bailed out the banks, I thought that it was foolish, risky, and unnecessary then, and I think it was even more unnecessary now. We should have let the banks that would have failed, fail. Other banks would have picked the bones, and life would have gone on. I do not like the fact that both the Bush and Obama administrations have used taxpayer dollars to prop up, and even buy, private business entities. I don't think that the government has any business owning private business.

That really is where I break with the OWS people though. I do not believe that I should not pay my student loans because it's not "fair" that I have to. I am not looking to be bailed out on my mortgage, even though my home has lost value, because I have added value in the work I have done, and I am not looking to move anytime soon. I pay my bills. I sacrifice to do so. I don't have cable. I don't have a new car. I bet that most of the people at the OWS protests have cable at home. I bet that many own newer cars than I do. I'm not out protesting them for what they might have though because, in the end, jealousy is a lousy excuse for a protest.

Ultimately, their protests will accomplish nothing because they are protests about nothing. These protests have had maybe 12 rotating "central messages" to go along with the bank issue. The latest is the debit card thing. Like I said .... if you don't like your bank's policy, change banks. There is no need for cameras, and megaphones, and all of the other stuff that will never be allowed in a place of business. If you want to make a point, fine ..... protest with an actual message .... print literature to be handed out to passers by ..... be able to explain your positions to people who ask ..... don't revile people because of who they work for (news organizations) and obey the law. It's pretty simple. It's a big reason why the Tea Party took off. They were exceedingly polite and well behaved. They did a marvelous job of policing themselves. They didn't allow vile signs to remain for long. There were no arrests that I can think of. They got their message across, and did so in a way that didn't scare the hell out of other Americans. They didn't threaten anyone. (except for supporting other candidates) They cleaned up after themselves, and they didn't create a public nuisance. They acted like nice people. People want to like nice people.

Would you classify most of the people you have seen on the news at the OWS protests as nice people? I wouldn't.

jc..

This is the OWS movement in my area

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FORT MYERS -
The city of Fort Myers has released a statement saying it will allow "Occupy Fort Myers" protestors to stay in Centennial Park during park hours, which is from 6:00 a.m. to 10:30 p.m., but anytime after park hours, they will continue to receive citations.

The city says it has been working with Occupy Protestors Group to obtain a permit but says it has been unsuccessful.

The group says they tried to get a special events permit, but the occupy movement would need to have a $1 million liability insurance policy. Several insurance companies told the occupy group they cannot issue a policy for their type of group.

Four days ago, the police department began issuing tickets to protesters in the park, and so far about two dozen protestors have received them. Today the city says the first citation will be $135, then the second time will be $250, and the third will be a mandatory court appearance.

The city goes on to say, "The protestors can demonstrate during the normal operating hours of the park but a permit is required for after hour activities. The police will continue to issue the citations accordingly until the court makes a determination."

"It's not going to stop the occupation. They can take anything to any action if need be, but we are still going to occupy, we're still going to carry on with the movement," says Occupy" protester Ryan Pogue.

The group has an attorney working with them and they remain hopeful they can continue to occupy the park, despite the renewed response from the city.

"I intend to not move, this is the occupy of Fort Myers, we have a cause and we will stick to that," Pogue says.

Tuesday afternoon, the attorney for the occupy movement filed a federal lawsuit and requested an emergency temporary restraining order against the city in the Middle District Court of Florida.

The order asks that the city not be allowed to write citations or arrest anyone for 14 days or until the court hears their motion for the injunction. The motion also requests that the court waive any bond on anyone who may get arrested.

Protestors tell us no matter what the city does, they are not stopping their movement.

"Its within our first amendment right to be here, to assemble, to talk about our issues, we have a list, a petiton of grievances that we plan on giving to the government," says protester Josh Vega.

The group says they also hope to grow into new territory. On Wednesday, the group will stand at street corners in Cape Coral to garner support, and spread awareness.

"We will get it together and we will take off" says protester Everett Warren.

The three spots where they will meet will be on Cape Coral Parkway and Del Prado Boulevard, Veterans Boulevard and Del Prado Boulevard, and Pine Island Road and Del Prado Boulevard from 4:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.
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"Its within our first amendment right to be here, to assemble, to talk about our issues, we have a list, a petiton of grievances that we plan on giving to the government," says protester Josh Vega.

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No, it's really not. It's within your constitutional right to assemble but that doesn't mean at any time, anywhere that you please... There are ordinances and permitting processes in place to keep things like this from becoming unruly... sorry.

It's completely amazing to me how many people have no clue what the First Amendment is about. It basically boils down to the right to have an opinion or belief, and the right to meet with others to discuss or rally behind those opinions and beliefs without fear of reprocussions from the government to throw you in jail for holding those opinions.

It does NOT give you the right to say whatever you want, wherever you want want ... It doesn't absolve you from obeying other laws or ordinances ... and it doesn't protect you from reprocussions from private citizens or companies (within the law, that is). Yet some people just think it's free license to do whatever they want .. so long as they have an "opinion" that they are platforming.

Who is in Zuccoti Park, and why? Here are excerpts from the second in our series of interviews with the protesters.



Stacey Hessler, 38, DeLand, Florida

When did you get here?

This is day ten for me.

How’s work?

I am a beekeeper, a midwife’s assistant, and I play roller derby—and I’m a mom. I home school my kids. I have enough support.

There’s been a lot of talk of demands. What’s yours?

I want the government to listen to the people instead of the corporations.

How is President Obama doing?

I worked really hard to elect him and I think he’s just like every other politician—no change, no hope. I don’t trust anyone anymore. I might elect him again depending on who the other candidate is.

How long are you planning to stay?

I’m going to stay until this ends.



James Glover, 21, the Bronx

When did you get here?

It’s hard for me because I’m a college student. I just got here today.

How’s work?

[As a pre-med student], I don’t think the government will hurt the health aspect of America, but business is going down.

There’s been a lot of talk of demands. What’s yours?

No more taxes on the lower class. That’s all.

How is President Obama doing?

I actually think he’s doing a decent job. He’s building for the future. If they don’t give him a second term, I think America’s going to Hell.

How long are you planning to stay?

As long as I have to—as long as I don’t have classes.



Gary Phaneuf, 55, Staten Island

When did you get here?

I got here on day six. I own a house on Staten Island and I’m trying to figure out whether I should invite everybody over [for the winter].

How’s work?

Right now I’m working in the shadow economy as a souvenir vendor. It’s rough. I have to risk getting arrested but my last unemployment ran out two years ago.

There’s been a lot of talk of demands. What’s yours?

I’m trying to cut through the China bashing. Wall Street needs to be put in check. We shouldn’t get diluted on other things—a sharp focus on banks.

How is President Obama doing?

I think Obama went through a radical phase but by the time he met Michelle he decided to settle down. I’m scared what I’m hearing from the Tea Party and Rush Limbaugh, they’re creating an environment where he could be shot.

How long are you planning to stay?

Oh gee whiz, until Hell freezes over. This is the most exciting thing in my lifetime politically.



Toby Stewart, 34, from Colorado

When did you get here?

This will be day fifteen.

How’s work?

I’m not working at the moment. I decided I was going to disconnect from the broken system. I was miserable: underpaid, underinsured, the whole shebang.

There’s been a lot of talk of demands. What’s yours?

The protest isn’t just to have a demand, it’s to raise awareness that there’s so much wrong. It’s somewhat of a skill to stay cordial with each other in a disagreement. If you want a demand, that would be one of them.

How is President Obama doing?

Obama’s locked into a system of corruption. If he wanted to step in and do the good things he wanted to do, he wouldn’t be reëlected.

How long are you planning to stay?

I’m going to stay as long as I feel it’s making a difference.



Rosita Libre de Maralanda, 66, Brooklyn

When did you get here?

This is my third visit and I’m already involved with a Spanish working group.

How’s work?

My school, Norman Thomas, is closing. It means the staff have to apply for our jobs again in the system or get out. I want to stay.

There’s been a lot of talk of demands. What’s yours?

Health coverage should not be tied to a relationship because it could be a toxic relationship. It will lock you in.

How is President Obama doing?

I’m totally disappointed.

How long are you planning to stay?

As long as it’s here, I’m going to be here two to three times a week. If my health permitted, I would do more often.

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Gives kind of a vibe on what some of these people think.

Each person gave a different answer for demands.

1) Listen to people not corporations
2) No taxes on lower class (a lot don't pay already so not sure what this will accomplish)
3) Wants Americans to quit focusing on China (I'm assuming we are focusing on the our debt they own and/or manufacturing that we lost to them?) and reign in the Banks?
4) No demands raise awareness
5) Make is so you don't have to have a job to easily get healthcare?

I'm not for or against the OWS.

Truth is the country has gone to hell in a hand basket. That part is done. I blame them all, Republicans, Democrats and Special Interest (includes Wall Street and Big Business).

Congress is bought and paid for by special interest. That's what needs to be fixed.

The small guy; small business owner, small farmer and working class americans are the people who made this country great to begin with, not the elite or big business or Republicans or Democrats or anyone else.

If you want to get behind an idea, I say get behind the ideas that made the country what it USED to be and support the empowerment of the small guy.

If those ideas come from hippies or hippos and they are sound, then get behind them. BUT please stop blindly consuming the media content of those that twist the truth into a bastardization of good to promote their political agendas. What have the likes of Beck, Limbaugh or Palin ever fought for that actually did anything for you? They push a big business republican agenda.

The Republicans used to be conservative. They used to look out for small business. They used to stand for every thing that I thought made america great... I don't even recognize them today. Corruption and Greed is all I see.

The Democrats (all of them including Obama) have sold out too! They are political slaves owned by their campaign contributors. They spew the little guy rhetoric but their actions serve their masters.

I don't want something for nothing.
I don't want a handout.

I want to see the American Dream restored.
I want my grand kids to have REAL opportunities in life.
I want America to be great again.

As long as this political system is entrenched in greed and corruption, and the majority allows the special interest minority to buy the laws that promote their agendas, the small guy will be the one that suffers.

Change these things and America will be great again. IMHO

It's probably just me, but I really don't have a clue what these people want. I get the feeling it's protesting for the sake of protesting. Doesn't seem to be a cohesive message or agenda.. Just disruption and media whoring.

if there is a message in there, I ain't hearing it.

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Truth is the country has gone to hell in a hand basket. That part is done. I blame them all, Republicans, Democrats and Special Interest (includes Wall Street and Big Business).

Congress is bought and paid for by special interest. That's what needs to be fixed.

The small guy; small business owner, small farmer and working class americans are the people who made this country great to begin with, not the elite or big business or Republicans or Democrats or anyone else.

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I place a big share of the blame on the small guy.

Because without at least some form of cohesive and consistent message - even if there are multiple messages - it's just a bunch of people getting together and making noise for no discernible reason at all.

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Why does everybody feel that a movement (of tens of thousands of people) needs to have only one consistent message in order to have valid points?

The Tea party certainly doesn't have one message (against health care reform, against illegal immigration, pro-small business)

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I had a general understanding of what the bulk of the tea party wanted...

I want to repeal Obamacare (or not pass it depending on the timeframe) and we need to reform healthcare in other ways, tort reform, interstate competition, etc.

I want to secure our borders, deport illegals, go after businesses that hire them.

So if the OWS folks could come up with some kind of conclusion to these sentences, it would help me understand their movement.

I want banks to.......

I want government to......

Because as I view it now, the answer is:

I want banks to stop making so much money.

I want government to stop allowing banks to make so much money.

If there are deeper ideas than that, I would love to hear them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/26/scott-olsen-occupy-oakland-review?newsfeed=true

Scott Olsen injuries prompt review as Occupy Oakland protests continue

Oakland's police review body looks into clashes between officers and protesters after Iraq war veteran suffered fractured skull

Adam Gabbatt
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 26 October 2011 18.34 EDT
Article history

Occupy Oakland, Scott Olsen
Occupy Oakland protesters carry Scott Olsen away after he was hit in the head on Tuesday night. Photograph: Kimihiro Hoshino/AFP/Getty Images

Oakland's independent police review body will examine the clashes between riot officers and protesters that left an Iraq war veteran in a critical condition as Occupy protestors prepare to rally at the same spot for a third night of protests.

Police battled protesters following an Occupy Oakland march to demonstrate against the closing of two occupations in the city in the early hours of Tuesday morning. More than 100 people have been arrested in Oakland since police cleared a camp in Frank Ogawa plaza.

Scott Olsen, 24, suffered a fractured skull and brain swelling after he was allegedly hit in the head by a police projectile during the clashes on Tuesday. A spokesperson for Highland hospital in east Oakland confirmed he was critically ill after being admitted on Tuesday night.

A source at the Oakland citizen's police review board said it had not yet received a formal complaint, but would be "looking into" the circumstances surrounding Olsen's injuries. The board will decide whether to launch an official investigation over the next couple of days.

Jay Finneburgh, an activist photographer who was at the protest, published pictures of Olsen lying bloodied on the ground, while video footage appeared to show police throwing a 'flash bang' explosive close to fellow protesters trying to provide aid.

"[Olsen] stood behind me," Finneburgh told the Guardian. "I looked to my left and he hit the ground, and he hit it hard.

"A woman went to look down at him, and he was bleeding from the head. She started screaming," he said.

Video footage posted to YouTube shows Olsen lying motionless in front of a police line after apparently having been hit. A group of up to 10 protesters gather around him, but a police officer can be seen throwing a device close to the group which then explodes with a bright flash and loud bang, scattering the protesters. The video then cuts to footage of protesters carrying Olsen away as he bleeds from the head.

Olsen was taken to Highland hospital by protesters. Adele Carpenter, who knows Olsen through his involvement with anti-war groups, said she arrived at the hospital at 11pm on Tuesday night.

Carpenter said she was told by a doctor at the hospital that Olsen had a skull fracture and was in a "serious but stable" condition. She said he had been sedated and was unconscious.

"I'm just absolutely devastated that someone who did two tours of Iraq and came home safely is now lying in a US hospital because of the domestic police force," Carpenter told the Guardian.

Olsen, originally from Wisconsin, had only moved to Oakland in July, and met Carpenter through his membership of Veterans for Peace and Iraq Veterans Against the War.

Keith Shannon, who shares an apartment with Olsen and served with him in Iraq, said a neurosurgeon was due to assess him on Tuesday to determine whether he required surgery.

"It's really hard," Shannon said. "I really wish I had gone out with him instead of staying home last night."

Shannon, who is also 24, said he had seen the video footage showing Olsen lying on the floor as a police officer throws an explosive device near him.

"It's terrible to go over to Iraq twice and come back injured, and then get injured by the police that are supposed to be protecting us," he said.

He said Olsen had served two tours of Iraq, in 2006 and 2007. Olsen was in 3rd Battalion, 4th Marines with Shannon before leaving the military in 2010.

Olsen moved to the San Francisco area in July and works for Opswat, a software company, living with Shannon in Daly City, just south of San Francisco.

Shannon said Olsen was hit in the head by a tear gas canister or smoke canister shot by a police officer. He said Olsen had a curved gash on his forehead.

Veterans for Police said Olsen was "struck by a police projectile fired into a crowd in downtown Oakland".

"Police in the majority of cities are acting with restraint and humanity towards the encampments, but Veterans For Peace will not be deterred by police who choose to use brutal tactics," the organisation said in a statement.

Oakland police confirmed at a press conference that they used tear gas and baton rounds, but said they did not use flash bang grenades. Police could not be reached for comment, but Finneburgh, who said he had been "present in many protests" where flash bang grenades had been used, said they had been deployed.

Finneburgh said he had returned to where Olsen had originally lain injured later in the evening, and close to a pool of blood had found a beanbag round, apparently fired by police. The controversial projectile, a small fabric pillow filled with around 40 grammes of lead shot, is one of the most commonly used projectiles in US policing, though it was withdrawn for 18 years after a fatal incident in 1971.

From the general assembly of Occupy New York

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*



List of 7 demands for Occupy. This is not from them; it is from Jason Hamlin at Gold Stock Bull who took the results from the General Assemblies and online polls and put together his own list of the top 7

I am writing this article to express my full support and solidarity with the Occupy Wall Street protests that have been growing rapidly across the country. In typical fashion, the media first ignored the protests and have now been trying to marginalize the efforts by constantly stating that the protestors have no goals. To the contrary, there have been a number of General Assemblies and online polls where the people have been voting on which issues are most important and which specific demands rise to the top. This is a lesson in true Democracy, something that we haven’t seen on Capitol Hill in quite some time.

After all, the degree to which the politicians have been voting against the will of the people is insulting to the idea of a Democracy or Republic. It is clear to most Americans, if not the full 99%, that the government has been corrupted, bought off and is no longer working in the interest of the people they are supposed to be representing. This is one of main underlying grievances, which manifests in a Congressional approval rate at an all-time low of just 12%. But there are also specific demands that have been well articulated, despite the insistence of the mainstream media to the contrary. I’ve pulled from the various sources and distilled the list to what I believe should be the 7 core demands from the Occupy Wall Street movement:

1) End the Collusion Between Government and Large Corporations/Banks, So That Our Elected Leaders Are Actually Representing the Interests of the People (the 99%) and Not Just Their Rich Donors (the 1%).

This will involve sweeping campaign finance reform that would limit the contributions that come in from for-profit corporations or provide equal public funding for campaign finance. It will also involve limiting the size and scope of corporations, in order to reduce the power of the 1%, reduce monopolies in critical industries and ensure no bank or other corporation is ever “too big to fail.”

We should reverse the effects of the Citizens United Supreme Court Decision which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media.

2) Investigate Wall Street and Hold Senior Executives Accountable for the Destruction in Wealth that has Devastated Millions of People.

Financial fraud was very likely committed and those behind the curtain have gotten away with nothing but a slap on the wrist. We must remove the moral hazard that persists in the system and completely restructure the regulatory agencies so that they are no so easily manipulated. One common sense step would be to end the revolving door phenomenon, whereby the regulators quit their government jobs early in order to take jobs with the companies they were supposed to be regulating, resulting in a huge payoff for not enforcing the rules. Likewise, the people tasked at enforcing regulations should not be coming from the industries they will be regulating. The conflict of interest is obvious.

We must also liquidate both the public and private debt that has been growing out of control. Most of this debt was created out of thin air and is owed to banks with interest. The problem is that there is not enough money in existence to every repay the debt. The system was designed this way and serves to concentrate wealth in the hands of the bankers, as the rest of us scramble to pay them back, plus interest. Since the debts can never really be repaid (other than with Ponzi-scheme printing), the loan contracts were never entered into with good faith and the banks offered no consideration, the loan contracts are no valid and the debt must be forgiven and canceled.

3) Return the Power of Coining Money to the U.S. Treasury and Return to Sound Money

The founders understood the dangers of giving a small group of private bankers the authority to print the nation’s currency. The Constitution explicitly states:

Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 5
[Congress shall have Power ... ] To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, …;
Art. I Sec. 10 Cl. 1
[No State shall ...] make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; …

The bankers found a way to subvert this law as was meticulously detailed in the book “Creature from Jekyll Island” by Edward Griffin. The top bankers in that day were aware of the power they would acquire as evidenced in this quote from Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild: “Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes it’s laws.”

Giving private bankers the ability to print unlimited amounts of money out of thin air and engage in fractional-reserve lending has been one of the key underlying causes of our financial woes. It is responsible for the boom-bust cycles, inflation that has led to the U.S. dollar losing 95% of its value since the Federal Reserve was created, the control the banks now command over government and the increasing concentration of the world’s wealth and resources in the hands of fewer and fewer people. When the protests point out the gross imbalances, such as the top 1 percent of Americans possessing a greater collective net worth than the entire bottom 90 percent, their outrage ought to be directed at the head of the banking beast, the Federal Reserve. Accordingly, we should bring the FED under total control of the people, with absolute transparency of all of its actions. Furthermore, we need to return to sound money, whether it is gold or a basket of other finite commodities. This serves to restrain out of control government spending and reduce the hidden tax of inflation on the people. This “hidden tax” affects the poor and middle class the most. We should also look into debt-free, government-issued debt. But whatever solution, we must take back the money power from the private banks.

4) Limit the Size, Scope and Power of Banks so that None are Ever Again “Too Big to Fail” and in Need to Taxpayer Bailouts

This means moving ahead with Basel III capital requirements, re-institution of Glass-Steagall and adopting the Volcker Rule to limit banks’ ability to engage in risky and speculative investments. Whether this is done via HR 1489 (“RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT”) or another way, it must accomplish the main objective stated above.

5) Eliminate “Personhood” Legal Status for Corporations

Revise the interpretation of the famous 1886 case where the U.S. Supreme Court supposedly ruled that corporations are “persons” having the same rights as human beings based on the 14th Amendment, which was intended to protect the rights of former slaves. As most lawyers know, the Supreme Court made no such decision. In the case in question – Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, the court itself never rules on personhood. A court reporter by the name of J.C. Bancroft Davis (a former railroad president) snuck that “ruling” into the books.

What most people don’t know is that after the above-mentioned 1886 decision, artificial persons were held to have exactly the same legal rights as we natural folk. (Not to mention the clear advantages corporations enjoy: they can be in several places at once, for instance, and at least in theory they’re immortal.) Up until the New Deal, many laws regulating corporations were struck down under the “equal protection” clause of the 14th Amendment–in fact, that clause was invoked far more often on behalf of corporations than former slaves. Although the doctrine of personhood has been weakened since, even now lawyers argue that an attempt to sue a corporation for lying is an unconstitutional infringement on its First Amendment right to free speech. ( Nike v. Kasky.)

6) Repeal the Patriot Act, End the War on Drugs and Protect Civil Liberties

The constitution’s fourth amendment protects people and their property against “unreasonable search and seizure” without “probable cause”. The Patriot Act tossed the probable cause provision out the window. Now, if government agents want to read your mail, listen to your phone conversations, comb through your financial records or worse, they don’t need evidence or a search warrant; they need only say, “It’s for a terrorism investigation.” This draconian law was never about public safety. Americans’ constitutional liberties have been trashed for the war on drugs and war on terrorism.

7) End the Imperial Wars of Aggression, Bring the Troops Home from All Countries, Cut the Military Budget and Limit The Military Role to Protection of the Homeland

The two demands above are the key requests in order to reign in a government that has grown too large, cumbersome, bureaucratic and inefficient to serve the needs of the people.

Parting Shot

This list is obviously not all-inclusive, but I think these demands should be the priority and focus for the Occupy Wall Street movement. Addressing these seven issues will also address many of the other demands that protestors are making regarding healthcare, education, independent media, the environment, equal rights, flash trading, jobs, taxes, term limits, trade agreements, capital punishment, nuclear disarmament, etc. All of these should be on the table and discussed, but we need to first remove the corruption from government and collusion with the corporate world/banks, before we give them additional power or ask them to act on our behalf.

Well, for instance, there is a message against the bailouts, and for the reinvestment of bailout money into government bonds (rather than lending to people).

My point is much broader, in any movement, the first thing the opposition will say is "they don't have a consistent message". That is true for every protest movement, because it's an easy point to make. You can always deny that the groups message is "cogent enough".

This was certainly done for the Tea Party in 2009 by the Left.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-6187311-503544.html


It was certainly done by the Libyan government this year :

"In Libya, supporters of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi acknowledge that his government banks on fears of clan rivalries and possible partition to stay in power in a country with deep regional differences."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/world/middleeast/22arab.html?pagewanted=all

All I'm saying, is that this is a lazy argument, and it happens in every case of a protest movement. It's true to an extent (all protest movements, are by definition unorganized, at least at the outset) - but it's not a sufficient reason to reject it.

My experience tells me if you don't know what they are for, you best be against them.



I know what they want, and so does everyone else....they want money.

Sad for Scott Olsen.

Was he one of the protesters that didn't leave when the police explicitly said "You are breaking the law. You have 4 minutes to leave, and if you don't, we will make you"? (my quote is not an exact quote, mind you - but I did see the video where the Oakland police said that basic message)

When people didn't leave, the police used flash bang grenades and rubber bullets.

And they were right in doing so.

So, you're attempting to equate this OWS thing with the civil rights protests?

Okay. Anything and everything you say after that is ludicrous.

Seriously - civil rights for blacks is on the same level as people complaining about not having guaranteed health care paid for by someone else? Civil rights is on the same level as complaining about animals being raised for food?

Seriously????? You equate those things with civil rights? You equate that whole list from northlima with civil rights?