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I posted a few different responses in the different threads around this ... but I'm just trying to get a sense of what you guys all think.
I sense a lot of pessimism, and I think that some of it is without reason.
We are ... basically ... what we thought we would be.
If you said we are 2-3 ... Colt is taking his licks but is managing the game ... some of the rookies have already stepped into starting roles (5 have now) ... and despite the few injuries here and there - we are **this close** to being 4-1.
A blown play - or two - in Cincy cost us the game. A Blown play - or two - gave up 14 points in Oakland and we were still within 30 seconds and about 40 yards from tying it.
My point isn't to make believers out of everyone and "rally the troops" ... but I just don't get all of the pessimism.
Do you guys really think it's McCoy's fault and we need Luck? Do you really think it's Shurmur's fault that we aren't winning?
Because to me ... we are exactly what we thought we are. We have played somewhat poor but still competitive football in 4 out of the 5 games. Our young guys are making some mistakes and we are seeing the growing pains.
This is what we expected and as far as I knew everyone was waiting for this.
So why does it seem like everyone is getting ready to sell off the rest of their tickets and wait for the 2012 draft?
Just wondering what a lot of you guys think is the problem(s) we are most facing ... and what are the solutions. Will it take time? Will it take a new QB? Will it take a real offseason to give a dozen of our first and second year starters time to gain experience?
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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to me it seems like there is a distrust in the lockerroom/on the field.
It seems as though our playmakers arent trusting the offense.
Our QB isnt trusting his throws or protection
Our best offensive players have come out and voiced displeasure with their roles...well, less hillis, but we know the issue there.
Our defense seems to be fine and getting it. But our offense isnt getting it done, and it just seems as though our players arent trusting the coach, our qb isnt trusting his protections and wrs/his throws, and that is just leaving things with unrest.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Legend
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Here is the list of pre-season cliches:
1. Speed bumps
2. growing pains
3. first-time HC
4. new system
5. young team/lots of rooks
6. young QB
7. new systems on both sides of the ball
8. no TC
We all said them, but now that the season is in full-swing, it's easy to forget how wise we all were just 2 months ago. For some fans all that wisdom back then are "just excuses" now.
For my money, the team is about what I thought it would be. Improvement must be made absolutely everywhere, but that's to be expected. Losing sucks, but these are the dues that must be paid (to coin another cliche).
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I see a team that is overmatched talent wise week in week out.
I see a defense that lacks a true leader on the field.
Who on the Browns defense does a opposing offense have to worry about..ala Polumalu..Reed..Lewis...Harrison....Matthews Jr..Orakpo..Suh..
Joe Haden is the only player on the defense that is in the Top 10 at his position..
But the front 7 lacks a game changer...
The offense has no flow to it....no idenity......
The Browns offense has no firepower.
Hillis has become a non factor.Hardesty has no 2nd gear to get to the 2nd level....
The Browns WR's are the worst in the NFL as a group.
Massaquoi looks unintrested out there....Little shows alot of 2nd effort....
Cribbs doesn't to play WR anymore.
Robiskie is all but forgotten...
The o-line is garbage outside of Thomas and Mack....
McCoy is getting blitzed to death cause the Browns can't run the ball on 1st and 2nd down....
The WR's run poor routes....
The TE's have been a bright spot.
But this has along ways to go before they are a factor in the North....
Holmgren passed on quality FA's in the off season..
Mangini and Savage's poor drafts have set this franchise back to the point that maybe Heckart can't fix.
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So in short you're just saying we still need talent? AKA it's going to take time to draft the right players who can impact the team?
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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blame the fan base for expectations and blame the team for playing like a first year squad. oh wait, they are a first year squad. nevermind. just blame the fan base for overrated expectations. this team is right where i thought they would be.
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Three things jump out at me as constant major reasons for the losses.
1) QB cannot hit receivers in stride.
2) Stupid mistakes and penalties.
3) No tangible game planning to counter the strengths of the opposition.
There are other issues, like mediocre o-line play, rattled QB who stares down his targets and can't ever seem to find an open man, mediocre receiving corps, slow LB's, young team, inexperienced coach and so on and so forth, but you fix those first three things and we're looking at a different record, not having this discussion.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
McCoy is getting blitzed to death cause the Browns can't run the ball on 1st and 2nd down....
No, he gets blitzed because he can't make any D pay for it...and that's also the reason we can't get any running game going anymore. 8 in the box and run blitzes galore.
Anyone has recognized that we can't run the ball anymore since the book is out on Colt?....that trend started LAST season...the OL is as fine as last year
Colt homers go as far as to blame the D hasn't stopped OAK on that last drive..and they ultimatively DID but lost precious minutes in a 2 score game...I was amazed they haven't given up at that point....the Offense had a punt (once a fumble) after punt at the end of their drives and you guys have the guts to blame the D? OAK scored 2 ST TDs, so we SHOULD have at least owned time of possession...the contrary happened though....the Offense did pretty much NOTHING for over 2 Qtrs and the entire 1st Qtr too...and Colt apologetics have the guts to balme the D for not stopping OAK 3 and out....the D is GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN WITH.....the Offense is the problem....you won't win any game that scores 10p in the meat of a game
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Our O-line is fine.. Our TE's are fine.
The weak links come up at QB, WR, and a smudge at RB.
Hardesty has shown me nothing so far and the QB/WR spots are kind of linked together. If one does poorly, so does the other.
Our D-line is fine..
We need more team speed at the LB spots. D'Qwell is an asset. The rest is blah at LB. Gocong shows up every now and then, but for the most part, he should be a back up AKA QUALITY depth. The CB spot needs to be addressed. Brown.. Bye Bye.. Peterson.. Serviceable but not a starter. If Haden can't play this upcoming game, I really would like to see Skrine out there starting. Thats just me. Our safeties don't make enough plays in the passing game. Don't know how to necessarily fix that, but I know it needs to happen more often.
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On defense its coming along beautifully. Jauron has some young studs to work with and man I like what I am seeing. Stud blindside pass rusher and this will be a fun defense to watch.
Offense is lacking that star power. Greg Little is showing signs that he may have that elite quality to his game but beyond Little it just isn't there.
Moore hasn't been the same since that preseason concussion. Hillis and the run game, I thought would be better. Cribbs is a special teamer and a gimmic receiver.
Colt is a game manager not a game breaker. We have enough pieces to be competitive just not enough to win consistently.
Another solid draft and we can take this thing to another level. those 2 firsts find your QB and another weapon and RT in the 2nd or 3rd. We can get this thing going.
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Quote:
Anyone has recognized that we can't run the ball anymore since the book is out on Colt?....that trend started LAST season...the OL is as fine as last year
As fine as last year? Pinkston = Steinbach? Yates & Womack = Cousins & Hicks? Pashos is the same as last year?
I certainly don't agree with that.
You also mention Colt "homers". I can't think of ONE Colt homer on this board. I see Colt detractors and Colt still-uncertains...but not ONE homer.
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To be fair I'm a Colt homer.... but not a homer in the sense that I want to defend him for everything.... in the sense that I don't think it's fair to judge him under the circumstances.
If he had come into this year with a full offseason, with a #1 who was a pro bowler and not a rookie or a TE ... if he didn't have 2 guards that combined for 16 starts going into this past weekend ... if he had a RB that was able to see the field and not have the present circumstances ... if he had been treated correctly by the prior regime and learned how to prepare for a real game and not as though he had poison ...
Imagine cutting Elway, Manning, or any of the other major QB's that people name who started a little below expectations.
I say I will defend him not purely to defend him ... but simply to give him time.
Even Cam Newton (1), Blaine Gabbert (1), Christian Ponder (0), Jake Locker (0), Tim Tebow (0), Jimmy Clausen (0), and Sam Bradford (0), haven't been able to do much in terms of winning ... and a lot of that is a team effort (even though I know by season's end some of that will change especially because some of these guys haven't even played yet).
In fact ... if you take away the miscues at the end of the Cincy game - McCoy has as many wins as Dalton does without having a bigtime target like AJ Green ... plus he has the head to head tie-breaker. Furthermore - that win would have put us one game back for the division lead at this point ... and tied for about 14th in the league with Washington and Tennessee after the loss at Oakland.
We are right about on pace and should be seeing some mistakes but some improvements as well as time goes on. Too many people are playing chicken little and shouting that the sky is falling!
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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I think I would call you a Colt still-uncertain...rather than a homer. jmo
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Quote:
Do you really think it's Shurmur's fault that we aren't winning?
Not entirely. But I DID come on here this evening to find the best thread to ask what everybody thinks NOW about him being the head coach AND calling the plays. As a first time coach. I was weary at first and am feeling like I should have been. Seems like doing it that way never works, but there might be exceptions I'm not aware of.
Thoughts?
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I just don't get all of the pessimism.
Wow. Really? I'm not ditching the team or anything, but come on . . .
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The blame is on the entire organization and the answer is W's.
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Dalton is a better QB than McCoy..Dalton's 4th quarter QB rating is like in the Top 5 in the NFL....
so the question why is Dalton prospering and McCoy isn't?
Dalton has a bum for a RB...so the running game isn't there...but Dalton does have playmakers at WR....none of the Browns WR could start for the Bengals.
going back to the Browns....
I think the Browns WR's run undisiplined routes...I can tell by body language.
Little right now has already propelled himself to the number #1 spot.....he's got some Anquan Boldin in him.....
but the other WR's are not physically imposing nor are they fast....
The Browns have issues on offense that could have been addresed if they were more aggresive in FA.
But Heckart and Holmgren never planned on being a playoff team this year.
and Browns fans deserve better
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Why must there always be blame?
My goodness,, practically a new team, new HC who acts as OC, new DC, new coaches, new systems on O and D...
come on people, did anyone actually expect them to be good?
it's funny,, all the negative nancys on this board (they refer to themselves as being realistic) were saying that we'd be lucky to win 4 or 5 games..
most of them said that because they felt we still lacked talent, some said that because they felt we needed more time to gell..
Doesn't matter, quite a few felt we'd be luck to win 4 games and they are the very same people that are complaining thier butts off about everything under the sun.
Seems to me, what I'm hearing most is that Colt McCoy isn't the guy..yet, if you watched yesterdays game, McCoy wasn't the sole reason we lost that game. In fact, he got us in position to tie at the end.. but that's overlooked because it doesn't fit the agenda.
The Browns can't let any team run back a Kick Off for a TD.. we aren't good enough to over come it. The Browns can't allow a team to use trickeration to score on a fake punt either..
take those two lousy plays away, and we win the game 17 to 10...
And if we had, there would be a ton of conjecture about why it still doesn't matter, we suck..
Well yeah, we suck,, that's why everyone was saying we'd only win 4 or 5 games..
Get it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What I mean by the pessimism is really simple.
In terms of "are we a super bowl caliber team" even down to "are we looking like we will win the division" ... then no way. I understand that entirely.
But even 2 months ago everyone took a collective breath on this board and braced for a "best case scenario" 7-9 team (within a game). And that was BEST CASE ... IFFF .... we pick up a few wins against Seattle, St. Louis, Jacksonville, Arizona, and MAYBE Cincy - we are still right on pace for the perceived best case scenario.
I guess I just don't get where a lot of people went from being "realistic" before the season to having inflated expectations ... and now when we are seeing what we THOUGHT we would see ... the wind just went out of the sails and half of the posters are talking about how to pull the trigger on Luck as if the super bowl had just ended?
If this team comes together we might still hit 7-9. Pittsburgh looks like 1 part Steel and one part Cellophane. Baltimore only put up 13 points on Tennessee - and they look good but we have a chance of beating them.
There isn't a team that I am bracing for a 40 point shellacking like in year's past. I think we are competitive and will win a handful more.
And I don't get why people are suddenly let down because we have known this is the team and the struggles that we would have for half of a year now.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Nobody expected a high win number even though the schedule had us in aperfect position to start off better...and I think thats why some are lamenting...we played Dalton, Collins, Henne, Hasselbeck and now Campbell/Boller....not exactly the who is who of QBs and teams, so I guess the criticism is warranted as those are teams we can and should be able to beat...the biggest problem really is we're not one inch better than this list with McCoy on it, so those games become coin tosses...some we win, some we lose and that's what we've seen so far
Personally I am pretty happy with the young D overall, they've played better than expected even though they haven't faced a real Offense yet, the HOU game will be interesting for that...
So, I don't blame Coaches, FO etc just yet...I assess the youngsters at every position because in the offseason we have to make choices, who to keep, consider a building block and who to better replace, I for my part fully understand that we're in "building" process year 1 and that's what you do in year 1: assess good and bad apples: who's worth more developing time and who's not and needs replaced...and that's my problem with McCoy: he doesn't deserve more time...if it was me, I would not have given him THIS year cause I saw what now more and more people start to realize...just like with Frye, Quinn or Mangini...I'm most fed up with this org because of wasted time burning "to find out"..I can stomach a losing team, mediocre coaches...whatever...but it's just painfull to watch a replay of ineptitude 1 whole additioanl season, just because it can't be "selled" to the homers (Quinn and my big fear McCoy now) or worse: the FO sucks and doesn't get it either
I hope this FO correct their mistakes, as anyone makes mistakes...just get them out of your way quickly...I fully expect them to bring in some sort of QB competition the upcoming offseason or I will be very POed
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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the train of the thought is...this team should be looking like its progressing week to week.....but its not...
it had a mental breakdown vs the Bengals.....that gave Cincy a go ahead TD
mental breakdown vs the Raiders...fake FG resulted in a TD pass to Kevin Boss.
the offense is holding this team back.....the defense and special teams isn't creating short fields for the offense.....
no one is taking accountability on this team...-
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Quote:
no one is taking accountability on this team...-
What a crock. Every player and coach that is interviewed has taken responsibility for the mistakes that have been made.
The blame lies with the lockout......call it an excuse, but it is the reality.
The new schemes on the Oline and the complete change of philosophy needed to be installed during the off season. Anybody who thinks you can make up for that during the season while trying to gameplan weekly is fooling themselves.
We have proven coaching and schemes, the problem lies in the time they had to learn them. If you consider this an excuse, fine, but it is a legitimate one.
#gmstrong
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I blame Holmgren for firing a good coach when he had one.
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yea I remember your good coaches first year too. The only win the first 12 weeks was the worst most miserable game ever played.
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Quote:
I blame Holmgren for firing a good coach when he had one.
Agreed!
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Quote:
yea I remember your good coaches first year too. The only win the first 12 weeks was the worst most miserable game ever played.
and he had no QB....as bad as Colt has looked this year....Quinn and Anderson in 2009 were was worse...downright horrible...I think Anderson had a game where he went 5-20 for 30 yards or something like that.....downright insane....and Mangini still won that game inspite of that...
how come McCoy has "regressed" under shurmur?
just to let you know...Brett Farve "raved" about Brian Daboll during his 1 year in NY...calling him one of the best QB coaches he has ever had the pleasure of working with.....
why does Shurmur;s O look identical to Daboll? because we have no WR...Daboll took a lot of unwarranted blame here...even though the Phins are 0-4 their WR are getting the ball...we have no one.
Not to mention we had the NFL's 10th ranked scoring D...thats progress...Mangini beat the Steelers on primetime TV without a QB....thats something right there....
Mangini was building a good team here....the 2009 draft was botched because his friend Kokinis wasn't doing his job....all Mangini needed was a GM, in fact thats what he wanted...
this team made progress last year, we should have kept Eric and continued to allow Heckert to build a team for him.....he was building a base here in Cleveland of good hardworking players just like they got in New England...it took time to build over there too....2 years is not enough time...i don't care what anyone says...Mangini was given a raw deal here because the media didn't like him....
had we kept Mangini this year, we would have built on what we had...year 3 in the system..the D was improving big time....The O was starting to come along somewhat.....we may have had something here.....Mangini built the core of that NY Jets team....Mangold, Kris Jenkins, Revis, those guys...drafted by Mangini...he had 2 winning seasons in 3 years....he would have had 3 winning seasons if not for Farve's arm....he got a raw deal in NY too....
We ran a good coach out of town....this boiled down to Holmgren wanting "his guy" and theres no guarantee "his guy" is better then what we had...in fact...he may be worse.....
also...rumors are Mangini wanted to move Daboll to QB/Assistant and bring on Josh McDaniels(who made Matt Cassell look good) to run the O here...imagine what we could have had....and Holmgren threw it away...
was it the right decision? we may not know...but if Shurmur falls flat on his face....we may be wondering what we done....and Mangini will get another shot...and watch him pull a Bellichik and win multiple championships elsewhere....its just our luck....were the ones who ran Bellichik outta town too....everyone said the same things about Bellichik they said about Mangini....look how that turned out 
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I see what you are saying and can buy more into that. BUT ... my point still goes back to the idea that if you put a healthy Brady or Manning onto this team without an offseason- without reps with the team - with young guys at skill positions - and with a fluctuating O-Line ... my guess is that the BEST QB can make us look better ... but with the circumstances - even Brady or Manning only wins about 10 games tops with this team. Some of it is because Pittsburgh and Baltimore twice ... some is the lack of reps and lack of an offseason and some is youth.
But my point is if Manning and Brady (*in my opinion) don't win 10 or 11 games ... can we fault an essential rookie in Colt if he doesn't win 8 or 9?
That's why I will absolutely be critical in January if we don't see improvement ... but I don't expect much out of the gate with all considered.
Maybe the light goes on for him late in the season sort of like it did for Eli and Sanchez or Flacco ... but in my mind I think he deserves a full chance. I don't know what QB would have looked good considering the circumstances of the offense that Mangini had last year.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Truthfully speaking. I think the problem is the offensive system. We had Peyton romping over people and we decided to go west coast which is pass oriented. We should have developed a run first system led by Peyton and supplemented with Smith and Hardesty. Use a very short passing game that utilizes our strength which is tight ends. Ball Control is boring but can still be effective.
Obviously, there is more to improve but I feel this is one blame.
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btw Mangini has won the same number of games this year through 5 games as he did last year and that mad dog genius Daboll has been equally as effective leading the Dolphins to lets see 0 wins. Farve praising Daboll as his best quarterback coach is priceless. Daboll who was a defensive assistant (fancy term for the guy that gets the coffee, the gofer) promoted to QB coach. He has gone from Gofer to Ofer. You guys aren't blaming Shurmur you are just whining about Mangini getting tossed. Does it really burn you that Shurmur accomplished in his first 3 weeks what Mangini accomplished in first 13  We could not win another game and I would consider it a Marvelous success just because those two idiots are gone.
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I don't get the love affair with Mangini or Daboll still a year later...
I watched a Dolphins offense put up a outstanding 6 pts tonight.
Daboll is a shining example of how backwards the Dolphins front office is.
Mangini will never be a headcoach again in the NFL...
I doubt it was him that put together that core of players in New York..Im sure Tannebaum or whatever his name is was behind that...
cause when Mangenius came to Cleveland,he drafted as well as Lindsey Lohan stays straight.
Pat Schurmer is a 1st year head coach trying to win with Mangini's draft blunders.....
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I'm most disappointed in our O play calling. Maybe I don't understand our offense very well, but there are times when we get too cute. A third and one and we do some dumb sweep/pass option? I mean sneak Colt if you don't trust the RB and O line to get a yard. Then there are the total lapses like the CIncy game, and the fake field goal. I was screaming both times...........and If I can figure this stuff out, then the pros should too.
beyond that I'm ok. Sick, absolutely sick of losing. Sick of getting fans of other teams sympathy, sick of the same old, same old until proven different. I'm still here, and love the Cleveland Browns, but I see why people get down on all this sometimes. I like the D, and Jauron was a great hire. (wish we would have had a similar hire on the other side of the team too.) Not sure what we have in Shurmur, but losing interest/belief in him as the season goes on. It's one thing to not be as talented as the other team........we sometimes just seem lost, and that ticks me off. I blame that on the Coach, and I know he'll be here for years no matter what..........so that makes me pessimistic too.
Given I'm a Browns fan though, I hope he pulls out of it. I hope I see the genius that MH must see. I've never understood his hire, but want him to do well. We'll see. Until them we'll keep pulling for the Browns, and feeling horrible when we lose. That seems to be our lot the last decade.
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but Dalton does have playmakers at WR....none of the Browns WR could start for the Bengals.
He has Green, and that's it. Gresham is a nice pass catching TE, but Simpson and Caldwell are pedestrian at best.
MoMass would likely be their #2.
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the defense and special teams isn't creating short fields for the offense.....
Umm, the D got the ball on a fumble on the CLE 43yd line and Cribbs returned a punt 31yds to the OAK 42....those were our 2 scoring drives in 56min in OAK....Cribbs had another nice game where his returns were half the Offense, so I think it's not fair to say that ST isn't helping the O
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I'm on the fence with Shurmur still and he pretty much has a free pass this season anyway as he won't be fired on the spot no matter what....McDaniels has taken over his Offense in STL and is doing worse than him fwiw
He could be another Crennel but the guy is absolutely likeable imho and anyone should appreciate his straightforwardness after 2 years of Mangini outsmarting his own shadow and years of Crennel cookie monster PCs...
He's in this, you can absolutely sense his emotionality in his pressers and he explains every play and has them all memorized in detail and what he says and his thought process even on broken plays makes sense more often than not....I also love how he tries to shield criticism on his players and blames himself for pretty much anything that went wrong, big difference from Mangini who always went the "we" company line on mistakes and on great plays it often was a sentence that started with "I", absolutely hated him for that and pretty revealing of his character imho....I can't recall one single time where Mangini took full blame and responsibility even on a single play, much less a game without deviating some of it, not once....and he talks to his players during a game, haven't seen that in a while
So, to keep it short: I don't know if Shurmur is competent or not....maybe I will be the 1st to call for his head in a year from now but I root for him to succeed as I think he is open to criticism, change and improvement...if anything he can be blamed to be too much of a players Coach and not enough of a leader....he's also adapting to his new role and I like that he reacts to it with naivety and self-criticism instead of stubborness and bloated ego....that's worth something really as it is fundamental to get better...and you can tell that he tries to get better and he knows he needs to, he doesn't think he's smarter than everyone
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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no one is taking accountability on this team...-
What a crock. Every player and coach that is interviewed has taken responsibility for the mistakes that have been made.
The blame lies with the lockout......call it an excuse, but it is the reality.
The new schemes on the Oline and the complete change of philosophy needed to be installed during the off season. Anybody who thinks you can make up for that during the season while trying to gameplan weekly is fooling themselves.
We have proven coaching and schemes, the problem lies in the time they had to learn them. If you consider this an excuse, fine, but it is a legitimate one.
That's where it starts, I agree. Throw in a line that isn't that great and a QB who just doesn't get it right now, and you end up with an offense that can neither run nor pass.
As for Shurmur, I think he has to get a pass for what's happened so far, but only to a certain degree. I think he's tried to protect McCoy with his offense, but that he inadvertently made it tough by rotating in these asinine packages where guys like Moore and Robiskie are on the bench while guys like Alex Smith are seeing the ball.
If we wanna blame people, we have to look at Walrus and Heckert.
Holmgren hand-picked McCoy. That looks like it won't turn out well. Heckert didn't give us an offensive line, instead hoping that a very average Pashos could muster it up another year. He's closed to being finished if he isn't there already. Our guards have not played well. Mack played better last year. Thomas is still the best LT in the game, but that's more about pass-blocking than anything.
Our defense isn't anything special, but they aren't the unit that gets the goat (overgoat? ) horns right now. It's all on the offense. Our QB came from Holmgren and our offensive line came from Heckert.
Really, did all of us expect some great turnaround? This is still a team with marginal talent, and what talent is here, outside of Thomas, is uber-young talent. Honestly, the draft was a win for us, but that helps the future more than the present.
I never had high expectations for this season. I know the limitations of what's here. Yet I do know that if we had a solid offensive line, we'd be a pretty solid team.
I know we need a right tackle and at least one guard. Pinky is either too young or simply not good enough. Then if we got some competent QB play we'd be in these games.
We can go ahead and use the "R" word........Rebuilding...........for what we're doing here. We scrapped the 3-4 for a 4-3 and picked up some parts to make that work. We moved down to get more talent. That singular moves tells us ALL where we were at as a team. Allow me to quote Heckert:
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“We’re not saying we’re one year away,” Heckert said late Thursday night. “What we got for the No. 6 pick we thought was way too much to turn down.”
Thank you Canton Rep.
So what's the answer? We'll have a ton of cap room and fill some gaps. We'll have two 1st round picks, and what appears to be at least one very high pick, and one mid-first round pick. Now I'm going off of sheer memory here, but I think we also picked up a 4th round pick. Granted, that isn't a high pick, but it is a bargaining chip if we decide to move, and it can become a good special-teamer.
The answer is the worst possible one we could talk about: Being patient.
This was a team that lacked talent. We used the draft to acquire 3 immediate starters. We have a QB who is teetering on not being the guy. We generally don't have a lot of team speed.
All of those things can come but they will take time. Another great offseason can make us a contender, but we weren't ever going to be that team now. There are just too many pieces left to acquire.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So why does it seem like everyone is getting ready to sell off the rest of their tickets and wait for the 2012 draft?
LOl....who's buying??
If I could sell off my remaining seats I probably would.
I was for sure going to the two Nov. games and the Steeler game. Now i am thinking about not going to those games. A loss to Seattle at home will seal the deal for me.
I don't like booing the Browns, but at this point that is about to where it has rendered down.
I don't blame anybody...or rather maybe I should say everybody.
Teams turn around every year...Det. and SF are a couple to note this year.
Us?? We SUCK year after year, and even go backwards at times.
Reasons, excuses, call them what you want. I call them losing football.
Just win.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I understand that frustration...I have a shorter drive to the games than you do and I feel the same way about going to the remaining games. However...speaking of the Lions and 49ers...that turnaround was waaaaaaaaay more than one year in the making. Both of those teams decided to "build through the draft" and it finally began to show promise. I think both teams have holes that will keep them from Rd 2 of the playoffs...but that is quite awesome in their progression from god-awful to playoff caliber. The Lions were bad forever...and nothing worked to get them on track. They got a new, young head coach who got the team on track and drafted/picked-up most of what they need outside of an OL and some pieces behind the DL. They have their foundations on offense and defense. They hit on some draft picks (finally) and are in position to make a run next year while teasing their fans this year. The 49ers got all dysfunctional before and during Singletary's reign. I believe they have a couple 1st rounders on the OL and they picked up/have/had most of what they need other than a QB. They have likely foundations on offense with RB/TE/WR and two #1s on the OL plus Iupati. Willis gives them an identity on defense and they have a few vets sprinkled in. They got a new, young head coach who has the players on track. They are in an awful division and won't get to RD 2 of the playoffs...another monumental leap from god-awful to playoff caliber. If all goes well for the Browns, we will be in 2013 like those teams are today. And the BSPNs of the world will be so  about the "one year" turnaround by the Browns.  Both the Lions and the 49ers were awful for a looooooong time. Our question will be whether we are going that route or not. I don't expect to see much this year that will tell us if our route is correct. However, if we don't see progress in 2012...we won't be like them (this year) in 2013. The question I ask is are we headed the same way forward that the Lions and 49ers went? We have had two very successful drafts under the two drafts run by the new FO. We have an extra 1st and 4th in the next draft. If we have the success in April 2012 that we've had the past two April's...we might - just might - look like this year's Lions/49ers for the start of our 2013 season.
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McCoy is getting blitzed to death cause the Browns can't run the ball on 1st and 2nd down....
No, he gets blitzed because he can't make any D pay for it...and that's also the reason we can't get any running game going anymore. 8 in the box and run blitzes galore.
Anyone has recognized that we can't run the ball anymore since the book is out on Colt?....that trend started LAST season...the OL is as fine as last year
Colt homers go as far as to blame the D hasn't stopped OAK on that last drive..and they ultimatively DID but lost precious minutes in a 2 score game...I was amazed they haven't given up at that point....the Offense had a punt (once a fumble) after punt at the end of their drives and you guys have the guts to blame the D? OAK scored 2 ST TDs, so we SHOULD have at least owned time of possession...the contrary happened though....the Offense did pretty much NOTHING for over 2 Qtrs and the entire 1st Qtr too...and Colt apologetics have the guts to balme the D for not stopping OAK 3 and out....the D is GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN WITH.....the Offense is the problem....you won't win any game that scores 10p in the meat of a game
I agree with most of what you said, and while our Oline may be OK, I don't think it is as fine or good as last year. And our ability for the QB, WR and RBs to recognize the blitz is very poor. They ALL have to see this and adjust accordingly, and I don't see that happening. Defenders too often coming in untouched, dump off receivers not ready for the dump, QB not seeing a train coming directly at him.
until they show they can recognize and pick up these blitzes, DCs will just keep bring them.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 10/18/11 08:59 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Yes, teams turn it around every year. But it's not exactly on a dime as you seem to indicate.
Detroit has sucked since '97. They haven't been in the playoffs since '95.
SF, while slightly better in the last decade, was last in the playoffs the same year we were last in the playoffs.
So, while it's great for those 2 teams to be playing well this year it really means nothing to this team.
I realize everyone is upset but all is not lost unless you give up. And 5 games in is too early to give up.
And will all the Mangini lovers just stop. He wasn't a good coach when he was here. He's not coming back. In fact, there's a good chance he never coachs in the NFL again.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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And will all the Mangini lovers just stop. He wasn't a good coach when he was here. He's not coming back. In fact, there's a good chance he never coachs in the NFL again.
I hope he coaches the Buckeyes.
I still think it's BS that President Holmgren gave Coach Mangini practically nothing in terms of talent to work with and gave him a mandate that he must win X amount of games. He gave him an over the hill Jake Delhomme at QB and a rookie Colt McCoy, without adding to the WR corps.
Say what you want about Coach, but this is fact: he was trying to build a team that would knock your block off with the running game and get after you with the blitz on defense. That's the Pittsburgh Steeler model. Coach Mangini was trying to build that here.
Now, we get this finesse crap. And I hate it.
And that's on President Holmgren, because of his massive ego. All offseason he talked down about Coach Mangini's offense and the result is exactly the same. That says it all about the talent he gave Mangini to work with.
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Toad, I thought we would sneak out some early wins as our offense grew and maybe be able to atleast compete during the later half of the season.
Lets face it we should be 4-1 right now. Defensive Brain fart against Cinn. cost us that one and the special teams Brain Fart cost us the Raiders game but the problem really is that the offense has not done enough in any game.
There are always going to be play calls that make us scratch our heads but for the most part, I haven't seen a lot of it. I hated the outside run calls against the Raiders but I understood that is where teams have been gashing them.
I am not going to put it all on Colt because there have been other issues like the rotation at RT, injuries to receivers and learning the new offense under less than ideal circumstances but 2 td drives a week just doesnt cut it, especially in this modern age of football.
I know some like to say well its because he doesn't throw down field. That isn't it. One of the biggest reasons is because his presnap reads are ... poor. When the Raiders have7 or 8 men lined up to blitz and 3 coming from the right side, Colt drops back and begins to survey the field.
The presnap read should have given him a pretty good idea of who was going to be open and his read should be finished by the time that back foot hit the ground. Those are plays in which you have to torch the defense. Anyone can say whatever they want about the OL but those plays had nothing to do with the line nor blitz pickup but everything to do with Colt's inability to make a decision and to get rid of the ball into the hands of the open receiver.
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