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Kind of like the train of thought that some people have that when we play a team with a backup at a certain position, we should destroy that team, but when we play with a backup at a certain position, that shouldn't matter one bit.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Waiting for Toad to chime in on the Browns trading for Campbell next year in 3...2...1....
Campbell is a FA after this season and cannot pass a physical at the moment. So, it'll be a "sign Campbell" thread in March 
why wait.
Let;'s trade Robiskie for JC
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Waiting for Toad to chime in on the Browns trading for Campbell next year in 3...2...1....
Campbell is a FA after this season and cannot pass a physical at the moment. So, it'll be a "sign Campbell" thread in March
why wait.
Let;'s trade Robiskie for JC
Trading deadline is over.
#GMSTRONG
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Let;'s trade Robiskie for JC
that would definitely prove that Al is dead. the Raiders trading for a WR of Robiskie's speed
#gmstrong
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Wow, good trade for Cinci. I mean, REALLY good trade for Cinci. Two potential first rounders for a guy that wasn't even going to play for them?
Maybe it wasn't Al Davis who was pulling the strings on these goofy trades???
No, a GREAT trade for Cinci, a #1 pick and a #2 for a guy who has not had a stellar season for some time. This guy was no longer in Bengals plans, this trade Jumps to TWO #1s should the Raiders make the playoffs. They add a solid QB and a top wr this year. they are on their way.
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Waiting for Toad to chime in on the Browns trading for Campbell next year in 3...2...1....
Campbell is a FA after this season and cannot pass a physical at the moment. So, it'll be a "sign Campbell" thread in March
why wait.
Let;'s trade Robiskie for JC
Trading deadline is over.
but JC is a free agent after the season 
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They were on their way in 05...
They were back in 09...
I think like us, they are cursed...
If I'm LA, I offer Mike Brown the world for that team...
Maybe it'll break the bungle curse...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If I'm LA, I offer Mike Brown the world as long as he promises that he will never move the team there
fixed it.
also, the Raiders trading for the ex-USC Palmer just shows that they are going to be the team to move to LA #conspiracy-theory
#gmstrong
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almost every superbowl winner has had a top 5 D in the last 20+ years..with very few exceptions(Colts)
Saints were 20th in points, 25th in yards. Giants were 17th in points, 7th in yards. 2001 Patriots were 6th in points, 24th in yards. 1998 Broncos were 8th in points, 11th in yards. 1994 49ers were 6th in points, 8th in yards.
Including the Colts team that you mentioned that's six teams in the past twenty years that have won the Super Bowl without having a top five defense.
That's a bit of a red herring, because a team with a potent offense can afford to have a defense that gives up more points than the average team. That said, every season for the past 20 years has seen at least one, and often both, Super Bowl team in the top 5 in net points. That means that the team had both a fairly potent offense and a stout defense.
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NRTU, NoGo.
Just a general comment stemming from no other reason than shock.....This still looks like a huge risk to me.
Here's why....
Let's take a second and set aside the 1st and 2nd round draft picks. Set aside the name-power of Carson Palmer. Set aside any opinions about the man or the situation. So turning him into just numbers and vitals, what kinda guy are we talking about?
This is a QB who will be 32 in December. Not old by NFL standards, but nearing the effective end of his prime. That means on average, Palmer has 3-4 "peak" seasons left.
This is a QB who has had some severe injuries. He suffered what his operating surgeon called a "devastating and potentially career ending" injury. He had meniscus, patella, and cartilage damage. He tore is ACL and MCL. That took time to come back from. He then had ligament and tendon damage in his elbow. When he came back he seemed to have lost some of his zip. It is fair to note that he has made 32 straight starts.
His Numbers say that when setting aside his 2008 season where he only played in 4 games with a 69 rating, his production and efficiency have declined each and every year over the last four campaigns. From 2005 when he had a 101.1 rating, he has the following seasons under his belt:
93.9
86.7
83.6
82.4
He has two 4000 yard seasons under his belt, and threw for nearly 4000 last season, where he fell like 30 short. He has a completion percentage of 62. That's solid.
He looks like a good QB who can probably be expected to have 3-5 solid years left, but could be losing something due to injuries.
Here's what I don't see from an outsiders point of view.
Over the last four years, his average QB rating is 86.6.
Over the last four years, Jason Campbell's QB rating is 85.8.
Now I'm not here to tell you that Jason Campbell is just as good as Palmer. I am trying to figure out how a guy who has been marginally better than someone like Jason Campbell is worth not only a 1st round pick, but a 2nd round pick in addition to the 1st rounder.
I always thought Palmer was a solid QB. I have always thought his career is being shortened because of injuries. I firmly believe he's lost something off of his fastball.
The only real comp to this deal was the Cutler trade, where the Bears gave up TWO 1st round picks, a 3rd round pick, and Kyle Orton. That trade clearly hasn't worked out the way the Bears wanted. Incidentally, it's pretty fair to compare Cutler to Palmer, as both guys have very similar numbers.
I could see this deal being a solid gamble if the Raiders gave up only a 1st round pick, but the additional second rounder is a steep price to pay. I think Hue Jackson and Co. got scared and overpaid. They don't look like a team which is one QB away from winning it all.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I could see this deal being a solid gamble if the Raiders gave up only a 1st round pick, but the additional second rounder is a steep price to pay. I think Hue Jackson and Co. got scared and overpaid. They don't look like a team which is one QB away from winning it all.
I think that is exactly it-- no reason to overcomplicate it. I'm sure Hue Jackson's time in Cincy played a big factor in it as well, but the value there is horrible.
In fairness to the Raiders, they were in a pretty tough spot. Do nothing, and an otherwise promising season is lost. I can't say I blame them, but wouldn't have made the trade myself. How's that for taking a side?
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Pretty much this. The Raiders looked to be poised to win the West, barring major injury. Well, they had that injury, so they could either throw the season to the side and let Kyle Boller bumble his way through the season while they see if Terrelle Pryor can show any semblance of being able to play in the NFL, or they could overpay for a QB and keep the season moving along relatively hitch-free. I'm sure they know they overpaid, but desperate times call for desperate measures, and Carson Palmer is undoubtedly the best QB you could pick up at the trade deadline. Only time will tell if this was a good deal for the Raiders or not...make some post season noise or wallow in the mediocrity of perennial 8-8 football. I guess we'll see.
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The Raiders probably figure that they have been one of the higher scoring teams in the AFC, despite a decidedly average QB in Campbell.
This trade lets them replace Campbell, who is out for the year, and replace him with an upgrade. The Raiders should be able to maintain their high scoring ways, and possibly even improve on them.
In the AFC, there is one 5 win team. There are 6 4 win teams, and we will probably see a weaker team win the AFC South.
The Raiders have a game against Green Bay in Lambeau, but other than that, they have a schedule where they have a realistic possibility of winning.
They are probably competing against teams like Buffalo, and the 2 AFCN teams that don't win the division. You have to figure that there will be some cannibalization among those teams that will benefit a team like the Raiders with only 1 really good team in their division.
Plus .... if it doesn't work out, meaning a run deep into the playoffs, then they have given up one pick. It's a 1st rounder ..... but that's not the end of the world. Worst case scenario is that the Raiders win a wildcard game and then lose in the division round. That would suck from a draft pick aspect .... but man, I sure wish we could get that far along.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yep. Get in the postseason and anything is possible. Ask the Saints last year.
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100% agreement with everything you just said save for one thing...
The Bears made the NFC championship game last year and are in position to make a serious run this year as the OL FINALLY seems to be gelling and Cutler has looked sharp the last 2 weeks, and seems to be understanding how to make things happen in this offense.
I think the Bears are very happy with Cutler and how things have gone since the trade.
Denver on the other hand...
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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How much risk is it really for the Raiders? It's not like they have drafted well in the past. For them it could be the equivalent of trading Jamarcus Russell and heyward bey. Would that really be a bad trade for the Raiders? Sure those picks could be better players but they could also suck. I don't think a whole lot of Palmer but I do think he is an upgrade even to Campbell. No matter what a certain Toad might say 
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Legend
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Plus .... if it doesn't work out, meaning a run deep into the playoffs, then they have given up one pick. It's a 1st rounder ..... but that's not the end of the world. Worst case scenario is that the Raiders win a wildcard game and then lose in the division round. That would suck from a draft pick aspect .... but man, I sure wish we could get that far along.
well, if Carson flames out and they don't win another game, then they still owe the Bengals a 2012 1st rounder & a 2013 2nd rounder (2013 goes to a 1st rounder with a playoff game win)
#gmstrong
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Heyward-Bey is looking like a player this year. He's got 22 catches for 345 yards (15.7 per catch) and a TD through 5 games.
Let's face it .... no receiver will thrive when he has Jamarcus Russell, Charlie Frye, Bruce Gradkowski, and Kyle Boller throwing to him. The only good QB (and not great, just good) that he's had to work with in Jason Campbell.
He's taken off somewhat this year, and I think that he'll explode with Palmer at QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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100% agreement with everything you just said save for one thing...
The Bears made the NFC championship game last year and are in position to make a serious run this year as the OL FINALLY seems to be gelling and Cutler has looked sharp the last 2 weeks, and seems to be understanding how to make things happen in this offense.
I think the Bears are very happy with Cutler and how things have gone since the trade.
Denver on the other hand...
That offensive line is a disaster and I doubt Cutler will last the season. Cutler himself has been a very average QB, with ratings of 76, 86, and 87 the last three seasons. The Bears being a playoff team are because of defense and Matt Forte, not because Jay Cutler has played like an all-pro.
Then there's the fact that Cutler did this:
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Frustrated after a second-down play Sunday on which Devin Hester dropped a catchable ball with 43 seconds left in the first half, Cutler glared at the Bears’ sideline, quickly called a play in the huddle, then turned to the Bears’ sideline again and said, ‘‘Tell [Martz] I said, ‘[Bleep] him.’  ’’ Matt Forte lost one yard on a third-and-seven draw play before Robbie Gould kicked a 51-yard field goal to give the Bears a 26-3 lead.
Cutler didn’t deny cursing or directing it at Martz. And he said he didn’t regret saying it, either. Just two competitive people clashing in the heat of the moment. Happens all the time, he said.
Courtesy the SunTimes.
It's my opinion that Cutler hasn't even begun to live up to being the guy the Bears thought they were getting. Has he been a bum? Not at all. But for two 1st's, a 3rd, and a guy in Orton who has put up nearly identical numbers, the Bears wanted a guy who would give them production equal to a top-5 QB in the NFL. Cutler hasn't even been remotely close to that.
I wonder how far along the Bears would be if they had invested those two first round picks and that third rounder on offensive linemen..........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I wonder how far along the Bears would be if they had invested those two first round picks and that third rounder on offensive linemen..........
i'll bet Orton wonders the same thing from time to time
#gmstrong
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How much risk is it really for the Raiders? It's not like they have drafted well in the past. For them it could be the equivalent of trading Jamarcus Russell and heyward bey. Would that really be a bad trade for the Raiders? Sure those picks could be better players but they could also suck. I don't think a whole lot of Palmer but I do think he is an upgrade even to Campbell. No matter what a certain Toad might say
I'm pretty sure the Toad in question didn't say Campbell is equal to Palmer.
One can't point to a teams draft history and say "They haven't drafted well, so trading the picks is no big deal."
Teams that win are teams that draft well. Teams that don't draft well suck. So the risk is that if Palmer doesn't play much better than what he's been over the last several years, the Raiders won't be a decidedly better team, and won't have hardly any legitimate draft selections in the near future.
Let me further paint the picture by quoting an aolnews article:
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The Oakland Raiders paid a steep price to acquire quarterback Carson Palmer before Tuesday's NFL trading deadline. As the team's first huge personnel move since the passing of owner Al Davis, however, it is a desperate decision that will only be met with disappointment.
By sending a first-round pick in 2012 and a second-round pick in 2013 to the Cincinnati Bengals, the Raiders (4-2) have gone all in for this season. It's not enough now that Palmer helps guide them to the playoffs this season, but because they've mortgaged a significant amount of the their near future to get him, the 31-yard-old will need to deliver well beyond 10 games.
Consider the Raiders now don't have first-, second-, third- or fourth-round picks for 2012, although they do have compensatory picks coming from losing key free agents over the summer. So if they fall short of the postseason, or worse, dip below .500, they will be limited in getting help to correct what didn't work. On top of losing the two high picks, they will also need to restructure a contract that's worth $50 million through 2014.
Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/20...s#ixzz1bLDRypI3
The Raiders are now in a position where they must win with the team they have, plugging holes with high-priced free agents going forward.
That's a very dangerous recipe. It's a big gamble.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The Raiders are now in a position where they must win with the team they have, plugging holes with high-priced free agents going forward.
That's a very dangerous recipe. It's a big gamble.
especially since the Raiders spent last offseason (before and after the lockout) spending quite a bit of $$$ on their own guys. they may not have too much cap room to go after those high-priced FAs either.
#gmstrong
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The more I look at this thing, the more I think it's going to end poorly for the Raiders.
Were they one QB away from winning it all? Are they stacked with a core-group of talented players which they can plug a few high-priced veteran players around and make a realistic Super Bowl push?
This is a defense that ranks 28th in the league in yards allowed. They rank 25th in points allowed. They barely beat us and only thanks to a fake field goal for a TD and a return for a TD. Their offensive line is good at run-blocking but are not good at pass blocking.
I just don't see it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Actually how it turns our for the Raiders is a moort point for me..it's how the Bengals use those picks that have my eye.
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100% agreement with everything you just said save for one thing...
The Bears made the NFC championship game last year and are in position to make a serious run this year as the OL FINALLY seems to be gelling and Cutler has looked sharp the last 2 weeks, and seems to be understanding how to make things happen in this offense.
I think the Bears are very happy with Cutler and how things have gone since the trade.
Denver on the other hand...
That offensive line is a disaster and I doubt Cutler will last the season. Cutler himself has been a very average QB, with ratings of 76, 86, and 87 the last three seasons. The Bears being a playoff team are because of defense and Matt Forte, not because Jay Cutler has played like an all-pro.
Then there's the fact that Cutler did this:
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Frustrated after a second-down play Sunday on which Devin Hester dropped a catchable ball with 43 seconds left in the first half, Cutler glared at the Bears’ sideline, quickly called a play in the huddle, then turned to the Bears’ sideline again and said, ‘‘Tell [Martz] I said, ‘[Bleep] him.’  ’’ Matt Forte lost one yard on a third-and-seven draw play before Robbie Gould kicked a 51-yard field goal to give the Bears a 26-3 lead.
Cutler didn’t deny cursing or directing it at Martz. And he said he didn’t regret saying it, either. Just two competitive people clashing in the heat of the moment. Happens all the time, he said.
Courtesy the SunTimes.
It's my opinion that Cutler hasn't even begun to live up to being the guy the Bears thought they were getting. Has he been a bum? Not at all. But for two 1st's, a 3rd, and a guy in Orton who has put up nearly identical numbers, the Bears wanted a guy who would give them production equal to a top-5 QB in the NFL. Cutler hasn't even been remotely close to that.
I wonder how far along the Bears would be if they had invested those two first round picks and that third rounder on offensive linemen..........
Yup, the Bears are still a mess on the O-line...they've just been focusing on running the ball to make sure Cutler isn't pounded every play. Just wait until they're down 2 TDs....he'll be getting crushed every other play.
And a big "heck yes" for all the Bears threw away for Cutler. Keeping Orton and using those picks would have been a lot smarter. I thought it was a mistake then and I still think that now. Cutler has had all of ONE winning season since high school. He has a million dollar arm with a 10 cent head. One week he looks like a Pro Bowl QB and the next, he's 2011 Donovan McNabb. He seems like a jerk and a horrible teammate. And we already know he's a prima donna with how he got his exit from Denver.
Give me the draft picks and let me build a team over time. Which is the same reason I don't want to move up to get Luck. If we have a GM that can find gems in the draft, why trade everything for ONE GUY?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Actually how it turns our for the Raiders is a moort point for me..it's how the Bengals use those picks that have my eye.
If it were the Ravens or Steelers that got those extra picks, It would scare the bejeesus out of me,, But the Bengals have a habit of picking talented players that blow up due to off field problems.
Then again, even a blind pig can find an acorn sometimes. so it's still pretty damn scary.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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They barely beat us and only thanks to a fake field goal for a TD and a return for a TD.
The least you can do is agree that for all the faults you find with McCoy, he was instrumental in getting us to a point where we could have won that game if not for what you wrote above.....
But, I'm sure there is something else wrong with that thinking that I'm about to hear in 5,4,3,2,,,,,,,,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It seem like for a time 5 6 years ago the Bengals were on America's Most Wanted every week.....but Andre Smith, Leon Hall, AJ Green,Micheal Johnson and Jeremy Gresham seem like choirboys compared to what they drafted...
I wish we had those young guys.
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They barely beat us and only thanks to a fake field goal for a TD and a return for a TD.
The least you can do is agree that for all the faults you find with McCoy, he was instrumental in getting us to a point where we could have won that game if not for what you wrote above.....
But, I'm sure there is something else wrong with that thinking that I'm about to hear in 5,4,3,2,,,,,,,,,,,
No, the least I could do is not bring up McCoy in yet another thread.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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It seem like for a time 5 6 years ago the Bengals were on America's Most Wanted every week.....but Andre Smith, Leon Hall, AJ Green,Micheal Johnson and Jeremy Gresham seem like choirboys compared to what they drafted...
I wish we had those young guys.
that is kiinda true, but AJ Green is pretty new..there is still time for him to fall into bad ways
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Carson Palmer Trade to Raiders...?
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