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Film study (10 things I saw on the tape that you didn't)
1. I love the way the 49ers ran the ball at the Lions last week. They took full advantage of the Lions' up-field approach. On Frank Gore's first long run, a 47-yard gain, the 49ers ran a trap play. Right guard Adam Snyder trapped right defensive tackle Corey Williams and motion tight end Delanie Walker trapped Ndamukong Suh. Center Jonathan Goodwin and right tackle Anthony Davis got out and blocked the linebackers. Gore ran off the Walker block for the big gain. Then on his 55-yard run later in the game, the 49ers used the same exact play. Walker trapped Suh again on that play to open up the run. The Lions are having trouble with their run defense, and these two plays show one of the reasons why.
2. So is C.J. Spiller now a receiver? The Bills have split him out at times, but he was used as a receiver a lot last week against the Giants. He looked natural doing it. On one play, he sat down on a curl route for a short gain, catching the ball with his hands. On another, he caught a crossing route for a 15-yard gain. With the success of Fred Jackson in the backfield, it makes sense to get Spiller on the field as an extra weapon in the passing game.
3. The Giants always seem to come up with a good tight end. They had Jeremy Shockey and then Kevin Boss and now it appears Jake Ballard has a chance. The thinking was that Ballard was just a big blocking tight end, but he showed last week he can be more than that. He caught five passes for 81 yards, including a 22-yard catch. On that play, he had a nice release off the line and ran behind the linebacker in front of George Wilson for a big play. He isn't explosive, but he knows how to get to the open spots. And he's huge at 6-feet-6, 275 pounds.
4. If you're looking for an improved second-year player, take a look at Falcons linebacker Sean Weatherspoon. He struggled some as a rookie with assignments, but he's playing much faster now. It's evident he's thinking less and reacting more. He chased down a screen for a short gain last week against Carolina, thumped DeAngelo Williams on a 1-yard gain and also got pressure on Cam Newton twice. Weatherspoon has improved a ton since last season.
5. Packers nose tackle B.J. Raji played like a star late last season and on into the playoffs. But he hasn't been the same player so far this season. He has been good, not great. Against the Rams last week, he didn't do much. He wasn't great at the point of attack, but he also didn't get any pressure. Raji looked to be a nose tackle who could rush the passer late last season. But that wasn't the case against the Rams. He was doubled some, but even when he wasn't he didn't get push. To be honest, he looks heavier than he was a year ago. Is that impacting his play?
6. How old is Ray Lewis? The man never seems to age. Just when we think he's slowing down, he has a game like he had against the Texans. He was all over the field. On the Texans' first possession, Lewis seemed to find his youth on a blitz that resulted in a sack. He exploded off the left side, beating a block from fullback Lawrence Vickers to drop Matt Schaub. He ended the game with 12 tackles and the sack.
7. One of the biggest questions this season for the Patriots was where they would get their pass rush. Andre Carter is answering that. Carter had an impressive game against the Cowboys. He had two sacks, five tackles and two hits on the quarterback. He exploded past Doug Free for one sack and then came around to sack Tony Romo. The Patriots have played better on defense the past couple of weeks in part because Carter is showing a pass rush.
8. The Browns needed to use this season to find out if they have a franchise passer in Colt McCoy. If they want to believe that, they better not put on the Raiders tape. McCoy was bad. He threw off his back foot in the face of pressure several times and threw to empty spaces several other times when he was pressured. He had a couple of drops, but McCoy really struggled. He just never seemed to be able to get much on his passes. He doesn't have a great arm anyway, but it seemed to be a problem against the Raiders. He needs to get it going or the Browns will be in the market for a quarterback in next April's draft.
9. I love Rob Ryan's defense in Dallas. He throws a ton of things at the opposition and he did a great job against Tom Brady last week. At times, Brady looked confused. But I have a bone to pick. Why did the Cowboys rush only two players on the play that featured Brady throwing to Aaron Hernandez for the game-winning touchdown? Brady scanned the field because there was no pressure and Hernandez was able to work across the back of the end zone to get open. For an aggressive coach like Ryan, it just didn't make sense. Not against Brady in that situation.
10. The Jacksonville Jaguars have been searching for a pass rusher for years. They might have a sleeper of one in John Chick. He had two pressures and a sack last week against the Steelers. The Jaguars have privately raved about Chick and there was some talk that the Colts shouldn't have cut him. Jaguars coaches are happy they did. Aaron Kampman returned last week after missing the first five games battling back from major knee surgery. Kampman was limited to 16 snaps and clearly looked to be dragging his leg around. He didn't have the same explosiveness to his game. It might take time for that to come back, but Chick might be the sleeper that helps the team ease Kampman back into the lineup.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/15769...-raiders-attack
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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Over the years I've learned at least one thing:
Pete Prisco is about half as smart as he thinks he is. I've found him to be wrong more often than just about any other national mouthpiece.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Which makes the title of that piece especially ironic.
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Quote:
Over the years I've learned at least one thing:
Pete Prisco is about half as smart as he thinks he is. I've found him to be wrong more often than just about any other national mouthpiece.
Well not to show off here's the accompanying piece:
Quote:
The question has been asked a lot the past few days: How will Carson Palmer fit in the Oakland Raiders' offense.
The answer? Perfectly.
The Raiders' system is a deep-ball system that is perfect for his arm. It is a run-first offense now with Darren McFadden, but it features a lot of deep speed outside to feature Palmer's arm.
In evaluating the Raiders' receivers the past few weeks, the guy who is coming into his own is Darrius Heyward-Bey. Considered a major disappointment in his first two seasons, he is running better routes and he's more productive. He leads the team with 22 catches, four fewer than he had all of last season.
Heyward-Bey is a fast player who will get vertical now that Palmer is the quarterback. The one thing after watching tape on him is that Heyward-Bey still catches the ball with his body too many times. That has to change. He did that three times last week against the Browns.
Jacoby Ford and rookie Denarius Moore are the other top receivers, although Louis Murphy is back after missing time with an injury. Ford had a big play after catching a ball out of the backfield against the Browns, a different look for him. Moore has been a major surprise as a rookie. He has a 50-yard touchdown catch. He runs clean routes, has good speed and uses his hands.
Murphy appeared to back away from contact on one play last week. He was running a crossing route, but instead of making a play for the ball appeared to cower as the safety bore down on him.
Tight end Kevin Boss is a good receiver and McFadden can also be good in the short passing game.
For all the outside speed the Raiders have, they have just three passing plays of 40-plus yards. That's 19th in the league. Palmer's ability to throw deep will change that.
For those who think Palmer struggled last season, here's an interesting stat: Only eight other quarterbacks threw more than the 26 touchdown passes he had.
Palmer had some tough moments, but looking at his second-to-last game with the Bengals, a blowout of the Chargers, shows how good he can be. Playing that day without Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Owens, who drove him crazy last season, Palmer played free and loose.
He threw four touchdown passes and had a passer rating of 157.2. He had five pass plays over 20 yards, one a 59-yard touchdown and another a 44-yard completion. He was comfortable and he was sharp. He looked like he enjoyed himself.
The ability is still there. Now that he is with a team with young, impressionable receivers -- not unlike the ones he threw to in that game for the Bengals -- Palmer should be able to make plays down the field for the Raiders.
Al Davis loved the deep ball.
He has to be looking down smiling now when he sees what his offense can do with the new quarterback.
Go Browns!!
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We could fix the title 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Which makes the title of that piece especially moronic.
fixed it forya....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Over the years I've learned at least one thing:
Pete Prisco is about half as smart as he thinks he is. I've found him to be wrong more often than just about any other national mouthpiece.
Yet, there's nothing wrong about this statement:
Quote:
McCoy was bad. He threw off his back foot in the face of pressure several times and threw to empty spaces several other times when he was pressured. He had a couple of drops, but McCoy really struggled. He just never seemed to be able to get much on his passes. He doesn't have a great arm anyway, but it seemed to be a problem against the Raiders. He needs to get it going or the Browns will be in the market for a quarterback in next April's draft.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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walterfootball.com has us drafting Landry "Lance" Jones of Oklahoma with our first pick.. interesting.. not sure if that happens.. but I would like to get Ryan Broyles in the 2nd round..
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is about half as smart as he thinks he is.
Which describes at least half of the guys on here......... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Watching the game at the stadium, Colt looked bad whenever he had an opportunity, like the one deep interception in or near the end zone. He is locking onto his first or second choice, staring it down, he is often throwing off the wrong fot and his arm is not getting there. Seems almost frantic to share in interviews what we are building here, but few results to back it up. He seemed to ignore the middle most of the day, and it seemed like he was in a "half court offense" in his passing game, specifically right half of the field. Few routes were called to help him, like vertical stuff to TEs. I do not care for the play selection I saw, and it seems like we still need to find two or three offensive linemen. But a win is a win. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Homework assignment. Find the last top 10 QB pick to take a team without a playoff appearance in the 5 years prior to his arrival to the playoffs.
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Homework assignment. Find the last top 10 QB pick to take a team without a playoff appearance in the 5 years prior to his arrival to the playoffs.
matt stafford this year 
#gmstrong
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Non telling stats anyway since not even a handful of QBs qualify as guys like Ryan, Sanchez or even Bradford, Russell or A.Smith took over teams that made some sort of postseason appearance the 5 years before...
I'd say Rivers...
My question to you is: who else qualifies for this? and what's the point anyway?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Non telling stats anyway since not even a handful of QBs qualify as guys like Ryan, Sanchez or even Bradford, Russell or A.Smith took over teams that made some sort of postseason appearance the 5 years before...
I'd say Rivers...
My question to you is: who else qualifies for this? and what's the point anyway?
I think his point is that QBs drafted by historically bad teams, even when highly drafted, have a very small chance of success.
I think his other point is that QBs who do come in and have success come to teams that had 1 bad season... Look at Manning, Big Ben, Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Rivers... some of these teams, take the Colts for example, were 3-13 the year they drafted Manning but had been in the playoffs the 2 years before that so they had SOME talent and for whatever reason, had a year bad enough to allow them to draft a QB high.. they weren't coming into a total losing mentality... heck even Carson Palmer took over a team that was 8-8 the previous year...
So in general, historically bad teams taking a QB high doesn't get you much.
yebat' Putin
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My question to you is: who else qualifies for this? and what's the point anyway?
Most busts
phil rivers
carson palmer
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that is true. the other side of the coin is that the odds of getting a good QB are the highest in the 1st round of the draft, so if you don't draft a QB in the 1st round, then you are a taking a risk that way too.
also, the answer would have been Matt Leinart if he didn't bust. Kurt Warner came in and did everything he could possibly do to win a Superbowl there (still can't believe that pass got through).
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
My question to you is: who else qualifies for this? and what's the point anyway?
Most busts
phil rivers
carson palmer
you are wrong. very, very wrong.
if you want to state that it is a difficult position, fine, but it actually 'proves' the opposite if you want to look at it that way (too small a sample size to mean anything other than that QB is an important position to get right, which we all know).
also, Philip Rivers does not qualify. He was drafted before the playoff schnide was broken, but Drew Brees is the one who led that team to the playoffs. Rivers then took Brees team back to the playoffs (after a drop to 9-7 and no playoffs).
here's the list of the last 20 years by your standards:
Drew Bledsoe - yes.
Trent Dilfer - yes.
Kerry Collins - yes.
Tim Couch - not until kelly holcomb took over.
Carson Palmer - yes.
David Carr - nope.
Matt Leinart - he held the clipboard for Warner in playoff years
Matt Stafford (current) - no playoffs yet, but on cusp
(did I miss any? and no, joey harrington didn't make it. i was surprised too, but that's just how good Barry Sanders was in his prime.)
without Rivers, that is 4 out of 8 that led their teams to the playoffs that were historically bad with a 5th looking like he will this year or next (Stafford).
That is above 50% rate of pulling a team OUT of the historical bad and into at least mediocre. if you include Rivers (and Stafford does reach the playoffs), it could end up being 6/9. 66% in this scenario!
my goodness, I must have missed somebody.
#gmstrong
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This completely confused the crap out of me.
Can someone clarify what he is saying? I would appreciate it.
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sorry, stream of consciousness and all. let me try to lay it out more cleanly.
here's the list of the last 20 years of QBs drafted in the top10 to franchises who had not been to the playoffs in at least 5 years and whether or not they led that franchise to the playoffs:
Drew Bledsoe - yes.
Trent Dilfer - yes.
Kerry Collins - yes.
Tim Couch - no.
Carson Palmer - yes.
David Carr - no.
Matt Leinart - no.
Matt Stafford (current) - no, but on cusp
that is 8 QBs. 4 led their teams to the playoffs. 1 more may this season. that means that according to this sample, you have a 62.5% chance of making the playoffs if you draft a QB top10 when you have missed the playoffs for at least 5 straight years.
if you count Rivers (I think he should be disqualified because of Brees), then that number jumps to 6 out of 9 QBs. a 66% chance of making the playoffs.
it shows that if you are a very bad franchise, drafting a very high QB is a good way to get back into the playoffs.
#gmstrong
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Thank you, much easier 
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Cantonrep is comparing Mccoy to Frye now. Says holmgren is talking about him in terms of The next 10 games as an audition, not the unquestioned starter.
The media is jumping off the bandwagon. Mccoy has precious little time to show some serious improvement.
Frankly, after rewatching some of his games this season, I don't see enough tools to implement a full WCO playbook.
My opinion is just my own, but I didn't need to see two full seasons of Chuck Frye to know ur didn't have it. If I see a couple more games like what I've seen from Mccoy, i'll be done with him. Just like Quinn, Frye before him, and Couch before them both, they cannot be judged on how others around them perform, but they ABSOLUTELY CAN be judged on their own actions.
In short, Mccoy's time is almost up. It's now or never for a guy who is too small and has a weak arm for the NFL. QB's who lack average tools should not, and never do, get two full seasons to prove their medal.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Homework assignment. Find the last top 10 QB pick to take a team without a playoff appearance in the 5 years prior to his arrival to the playoffs.
John Elway?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I'm leaning your way, Toad. It just looks bad right now. BAD. . . BUT, even if we draft a QB high in the next draft, I still want McCoy starting all of next year w/ the dude sitting & learning. And I want to see us get a legitimate threat at WR to start w/ Little & MoMass behind him. And I want that OL bolstered. Of course then I'll whine about not getting a LB in the first round, but that's for a different thread . . . I can't COMPLETELY judge McCoy w/out all of that. But, yeah, like I said, DEFINITELY leaning your way, Toad. Big time . . .
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BUT, even if we draft a QB high in the next draft, I still want McCoy starting all of next year w/ the dude sitting & learning.
I see your point, and would normally agree. That being said, suppose the offense truly is (as Toad suggests) dumbed down for McCoy. Having him at QB for another season could actually stunt the growth of those around him. (Assuming that it still needs to be dumbed down for him.)
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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It's not dumbed down for McCoy...
We can say that all we want but its not true. The offense is a product of a number of things...
We have WRs that run subpar routes and while they may get open, its not in the windows where theyre supposed to be open consistently, they round off routes and get very little separation...so the playbook is scaled back to what those guys can do well enough to be legitimate WRs.
We have an OL that is inconsistent and gets its QB hit on 3-5 step drops even when he gets rid of it at the conclusion of the drop.
Our tunnel vision dumping all over the QB is just over the top. He hasnt been good thats 100% truth, but the kid is improving, he's taking consistent steps every week to improve his game.
We said after 2 weeks he couldnt hold the pocket and refused to stay in it. Now he almost exclusively stays in it and works from it unless its a roll out or the occasional play where he can get behind it and out around the rushing DE which is always upfield. So now he sits in the pocket and we have other gripes...thats fine, he deserves em.
He doesnt make consistent throws and while thats a concern, he has made them. He threw 3 deep outs this past week, a throw that we said he couldnt make. He hit Cribbs in a perfect route that he bricked, i suppose that could be his fault?
Toad and Django and the few others here that consistently bash McCoy in my opinion have developed such a narrow tunnel vision that it makes it impossible to see progress. If you want to sem his arm strength improve you'll never think he is good.
There are a few things he is lacking at this point in time. He doesnt plant well and that is the sole reason his arm strength looks so suspect. Yea he doesnt have an Aaron Rodgers like cannon, but he puts as much zip on the ball as guys like Rivers and Sanchez and guys that have adequate strength...Look at the out to MoMass or the pass to Cribbs, thats two throws to the sideline that had all the zip of an NFL QB...Basically EVERY throw to Little that he caught had adequate zip and most of his throws to Evan Moore have good zip. Yes there are bad throws...the 3 INTs, especially the one this week because he had great time in the pocket and tried to force one into a covered guy, and the throw to Cribbs that got swatted down by 2 Seattle defenders (he shoulda thrown that one high and made Cribbs go up and get it) but there are less bad throws (decisions) than good ones.
We've also lamented his seeming inability to read a defense, yet this week he changed protections, plays, and adjusted WRs this week...something we havent seen from him yet...If thats not an incredible improvement i dont know what youre looking for.
He takes care of the ball, and this week he was incredibly decisive in the pocket. He'd drop back, go through his progression (or whatever he had time for) and he got away from pressure (even the backside pressure 2-3 times after he got speared in the back by Chancellor) and he didnt just roll out into pressure, he stepped up through the pocket and got out that way...exactly as we've wanted him to do for weeks.
The most concerning gripe is his low YPA and saying that it is on Colt...It is pretty close to identical to Sam Bradford's numbers last year...that to me makes it less on Colt than it is on the system and its youth within it, and early stages of it. Bradford had 1 year in it, Bulger/Boller/Knoll had 1 year in it, and the Rams had 2 years of it. Colt has had a half year in it, and no offseason in it, and the Browns have had the same amount of time in it. His YPA is not on him so much as it is in the whole offense...the only way that number would be able to go up is if he hit 80% of his passes.
Your tunnel visions for big numbers, high completion rates, hitting guys in stride (that in our case arent there), and lasers coming out of his shoulder is clouding obvious improvements from the QB position.
He has WRs that run rounded routes, and in a timing offense maybe dont get open at their window in the progression, and moreso, we dont run routes downfield very often, and when we do, since there is no player worthy of a double team, theres safety help over the top (ie the deep ball to Little),
You look at TV coverage and when there are guys open downfield, or even having one-on-one coverage downfield in a spot that a QB should test it, they show it (as evidenced by Flacco last night), but never for us, they NEVER state that McCoy is making a bad decision by not throwing the ball to our guys. When we do have guys open downfield McCoy sends it that way. Cribbs for a TD, Cribbs though he missed him deep, MoMass for a TD, Watson for a TD and so on.
He's obviously not perfect and not there...
But we've had several gripes and hes been able to cross them off.
*Cant stay in the pocket
No arm strength
*Cant throw a 15 yard out
*Cant read a defense and make a pre-snap read
Doesnt plant his feet to make a throw
**Makes bad decisions
etc...
in those 2 above that dont have a * still exist and both go away when he plants his feet, the one with ** is mostly being fixed.
They arent scaling back the playbook for McCoy...thats just plain not true. However, we are running more routes that fit the pass catchers in the offense...that is very true, but when you have WRs that run bad routes, and you run the plays that they do well...how is that scaling it back because of McCoy.
Step back and look beyond your McCoy hate. the passing game is a 4 part process...
QB
WRs
OL
Play Calling/Coaches
If you can honestly say that 2 of them outside of QB have been very good, ill agree that McCoy has to go...but the truth, the 100% unmitigated truth, is that all 4 have been bad, and in my opinion, the QB has been the least bad of all of them. And the one that has shown the most improvement from day 1 imo
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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here's the problem though. how long do you give him?
we have seen situations where things looked as bleak and turned out to mostly be the QBs fault (or at least something an elite QB could overcome). the most obvious example is Kurt Warner taking over for Matt Leinart in Arizona.
we have seen situations where QBs are replaced time and time again and it does not go anywhere. the most obvious example is our own team (though it is possible that we just have had terrible decision making on QBs).
so, the question for the FO (and one that I personally am still up in the air about) is do we give Colt another season after this one? or do we draft his replacement? obviously, we all need to see this season play out, but it's going to take progression for that first question an answer of yes (and the schedule does get tougher).
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In all honesty...
I give him time until two things happen...He stagnates. When he stops trying to fix his weaknesses, or stops improving upon things and still looks bad. There are situations where he shouldnt continue to be the QB...but right now he is improving, he is making strides to improve, and that dont show up in tangible results necessarily. When he is no longer looking like he is improving things in his game, and he still isnt looking like a good QB. Thats when you stop giving him time.
At this point, he is working to eliminate his weaknesses. As he continues to do that, he's fine. He is showing what a young NFL QB should do. If he stagnates he should go.
Also...if he regresses. If he doesnt improve upon his weaknesses, and gets worse at doing what he does well, or if his weaknesses grow and become increasingly more glaring...then he should go.
I think were to the point where teams have tape on him. I dont see new revelatory defensive trends or ideas that will really make things more difficult on Colt...there may be tougher defenses (Pit and Balt) that will make things tougher on him, but there wont be new ideas that will kill Colt.
Things trend upward at the beginning because a QB can catch teams by surprise and defenses have to figure out how to beat him (NE, NO, and NYJ games last year) and when they do (Pit, Baltimore, Tennessee etc), then its on the QB to adjust, and he is adjusting, but so is the rest of the team. So as he grows, the rest of the offense will grow.
He is doing better things.
Holding the pocket
Making presnap reads
Throwing all over the field (as he relied on the middle only early, and this past week rarely threw between the numbers and even less between the hash marks)
As long as he doesnt stagnate or regress he deserves more time.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Hall of Famer
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Homework assignment. Find the last top 10 QB pick to take a team without a playoff appearance in the 5 years prior to his arrival to the playoffs.
Seriously???...What exactly r u trying to portray???
There's 4 type of fans...
1) Those that think a bonafide QB can come from the later rounds...AKA Brady & Hasselbeck...They r ALWAYS the reference and it's a JOKE...
2) Those that think u can get a QB at ANYTIME...Build the team first...lmao...
3) Those that think 1st round QB's have a hit or miss attached to em'...(WOW...Rocket Science)
4) Those that think a HIGH 1st round QB has the BEST shot at making it in the NFL...
1) JOKE
2) JOKE...U build the team first and u r drafting nowhere even close to getting what SHOULD BE the best QB's in any draft...They go Top 5...Top TWO if they actually r decent...
3) WOW...Rocket Science...
4) It has been PROVEN...And I've done it myself but not again...HIGH 1st round QB's have a MUCH higher success rate than any other QB ever drafted...Including lower round one QB's...For as many FAILURES u c...There is easily a 2-1 SUCCESS rate...And one could argue that the predominant amount of FAILURES is because teams take a QB in the Top 5 just because they NEED one...Even though same QB's wouldn't even be a 1st rounder in any other year...FACT...
We're dangerously close to WINNING meaningless 6 to 3 games and screwing ourselves out of a fairly decent QB class in 2012...
But u guys keep going...Keep hoping we're 6-10 or 7-9 this year...And you'll be screaming again next year because we have a WIMP for a QB...Yeah...Love those 6-3 WINS...
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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2) Those that think u can get a QB at ANYTIME...Build the team first...lmao...
this is my take on our team now.. Use our day 1 picks on CB, WR, LB... guys that can make plays on the ball... then add a 3rd round RT and this team is a lot lot better..
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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j/c
here is the other side of the McCoy coin (providing some hope). this isn't to say he doesn't need to improve (he obviously does). this isn't to say that he's been worse than his numbers have shown thus far (I would argue he has been), but it is to show that all is not lost perhaps?
and also I'm getting tired of the Brees comparisons (it is the best comp but we need some other info):
2011 Colt McCoy 1377yds 8TDs 4 Ints
16 game pace = 3672yds 21TDs 11 Ints – 56% 5.5YPA
2nd year McNabb = 3135yds 21TDs 13Ints – 58% 5.9YPA
2nd year Eli = 3762yds 24TDs 17Ints – 52% 6.8YPA
So, he is on par with McNabb (with more attempts) but not nearly the YPA of Eli (but less Ints and higher % as well). TDs pretty even for the season with both.
Also, since we might be able to end the “myth of Colt regressing this season”:
Colt played in 8 games last season (all starts)
1576yds 6TDs 9Ints – 61% 7.1YPA
16game pace = 3152yds 12TDs 18Ints
So, he was significantly better in both % and YPA last year, which is impressive. That is until you realize that it came at the cost of huge INT numbers (even bigger when you realize how many fewer attempts he had) and low TD totals (though Hillis stole alot of those chances).
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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2) JOKE...U build the team first and u r drafting nowhere even close to getting what SHOULD BE the best QB's in any draft...They go Top 5...Top TWO if they actually r decent...
How many of the top 10 QBs in the NFL right now were top 2 draft picks?
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4) It has been PROVEN...And I've done it myself but not again...HIGH 1st round QB's have a MUCH higher success rate than any other QB ever drafted...Including lower round one QB's...
I agree with you.
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And one could argue that the predominant amount of FAILURES is because teams take a QB in the Top 5 just because they NEED one...Even though same QB's wouldn't even be a 1st rounder in any other year...FACT...
Which is exactly what I don't want the Browns to do... don't draft the best available QB at the #10 spot just because you think you need one if the guy isn't worth it.
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But u guys keep going...Keep hoping we're 6-10 or 7-9 this year...And you'll be screaming again next year because we have a WIMP for a QB...Yeah...Love those 6-3 WINS...
A wimp? He may be a lot of things but that ain't one of them..
yebat' Putin
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Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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So, he was significantly better in both % and YPA last year, which is impressive. That is until you realize that it came at the cost of huge INT numbers (even bigger when you realize how many fewer attempts he had) and low TD totals (though Hillis stole alot of those chances).
That's BS, as he threw his INT's in games with miniscule YPA....there are only 2 McCoys...pre and post tape...McCoys is trash since after his 5-6 pre tape games for DCs...just like DA pre and post tape
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
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Legend
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Cantonrep is comparing Mccoy to Frye now. Says holmgren is talking about him in terms of The next 10 games as an audition, not the unquestioned starter.
The media is jumping off the bandwagon. Mccoy has precious little time to show some serious improvement.
Frankly, after rewatching some of his games this season, I don't see enough tools to implement a full WCO playbook.
My opinion is just my own, but I didn't need to see two full seasons of Chuck Frye to know ur didn't have it. If I see a couple more games like what I've seen from Mccoy, i'll be done with him. Just like Quinn, Frye before him, and Couch before them both, they cannot be judged on how others around them perform, but they ABSOLUTELY CAN be judged on their own actions.
In short, Mccoy's time is almost up. It's now or never for a guy who is too small and has a weak arm for the NFL. QB's who lack average tools should not, and never do, get two full seasons to prove their medal.
And he knows it because you can see it in his play. He just isn't loose and trying to do more then capable to try to prove people wrong.
I really expect to see much of the same the rest of the way because as thought from the beginning, his tools are limited as far as being a top(or even pretty good) NFL QB.
His arm isn't very good, and while he has heart and guts, it isn't Tebow level, nor can he run like a Tebow who at least has that to carry the day if need be.
We'll be in the market for a QB this off season.
My hope is we bring in a vet. Who I don't know, and draft a QB early.
I doubt we get Luck, so we better be scouting the next best players at the position. Maybe Jones or Barkley....maybe Tannyhill.
It's too early for me to really know, but those are a few who have to be ranked fairly high.
One of them is going to turn in to a legit NFL starting qb....I suggest we get him.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Dawg Talker
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Colt McCoy is a scrub. Poor accuracy, noodle arm. He will be out of the league in another 5 years or so. If we wanted to win a few games this year, I think wallace is the better option. But Holmgren wants to give this guy time to prove that he's not the guy.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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We're dangerously close to WINNING meaningless 6 to 3 games and screwing ourselves out of a fairly decent QB class in 2012...
Amen to that. Never did I want to lose a game as bad as I did during that putrid performance last Sunday. That abortion of a performance cost us 3-4 spots in the draft and made it 3-4 spots harder to get real help to actually become a competitive football team in the near future. All for the sake of winning 4 games this year instead of 3. It's risk/reward.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Dawg Talker
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Which is exactly what I don't want the Browns to do... don't draft the best available QB at the #10 spot just because you think you need one if the guy isn't worth it.
Exactly! For all those advocating us taking Tannehill or Barkley or Jones...I can't buy it. We want them just b/c we "need" a QB and they're the scraps that will be left at 10 when we pick? No. If we need a QB that bad go up and get the man at #1 and be done with it. Whatever it costs. If we don't/can't...then take BPA and build the team. Maybe we can get our QB in FA, via trade or in the NEXT draft..or maybe McCoy develops. But you do NOT draft "the next guy on the list" just because you need that position. Especially not for a QB. He's either elite or not and that's all there is. Drafting 47 QBs who aren't elite gets you nowhere. Drafting the RIGHT 1 who is elite is the answer.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
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Quote:
Quote:
Which is exactly what I don't want the Browns to do... don't draft the best available QB at the #10 spot just because you think you need one if the guy isn't worth it.
Exactly! For all those advocating us taking Tannehill or Barkley or Jones...I can't buy it. We want them just b/c we "need" a QB and they're the scraps that will be left at 10 when we pick? No. If we need a QB that bad go up and get the man at #1 and be done with it. Whatever it costs. If we don't/can't...then take BPA and build the team. Maybe we can get our QB in FA, via trade or in the NEXT draft..or maybe McCoy develops. But you do NOT draft "the next guy on the list" just because you need that position. Especially not for a QB. He's either elite or not and that's all there is. Drafting 47 QBs who aren't elite gets you nowhere. Drafting the RIGHT 1 who is elite is the answer.
That's pretty much where I'm moving towards with this draft class...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Where's Ryan Leaf (#2 overall to SD in 1998).
Where's David Klingler (#6 overall to Cincy in 1992)?
Where's Rick Mirer (#2 overall to Seattle in 1993)?
Where's Heath Shuler (#3 overall to Washington in 1994)? Oh yeah, he's in Congress from North Carolina.
Where's Akili Smith (#3 overall to Cincy in 1999)?
Alex Smith (#1 overall to SF in 2005) hasn't led his team anywhere yet. SF looks to be on the verge of getting them there this year.
Then there is the largest bust of all time, JaMarcus Russell, the overall #1 pick for Oakland in 2007. He was so bad that the Oakland Raiders wouldn't even let Terrelle Pryor use his number (2) because they didn't want anyone using it.
Sam Bradfor (#1 overall to St. Louis last year) didn't lead his team to the playoffs when he could have done so with a win over Seattle. They lost, giving Seattle the NFC West title and the playoff spot.
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Posts: 1,744
Dawg Talker
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OP
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No one is saying a QB prospect taken in the top 5 can magically take a team from 4-12 and make that team 15-1. Good QB prospects go to bad teams because bad teams usually need QBs. But a good QB prospect can take a team from 2-14 and make them 5-11 or 7-9.
Look at Cam Newton sure his team only has 2 wins but they have been competitive in every game which could not be said last year with Clausen helming the team. Look how much brighter the future is for that team. Show me another player whose had the same impact as Cam Newton has had on the Panthers. Or Bradford last year, this year the Rams are riddled with injuries to just about everyone. While its hard to get a franchise QB by comparison it is much easier to get WRs, O-line, DBs..etc outside of the top 10 who can help that rookie QB. You can get value for an offensive guard in rounds 3-5 you can get value for OT's in round 2. There isn't a team in the NFL who has nothing but self drafted 1st rounders on their o-line. Its impractical and theres no value in doing it. The only offensive line position you get good value out of the 1st round is LT other than that you can find good value in rounds 2-5 for offensive linemen.
My point is that if you want a good QB prospect you usually have to draft one of the top 2-3 prospects which are usually taken in the first 10-15 picks if not top 5. QBs are the difference between the haves and have-nots of the league. Once you get your QB is easy to fill in the other holes on your team.
Back to Luck as a maximum I would trade our 2 first rounders this year the falcons 4th and our 1st and 4th next year. Yeah its heavy price to pay but the guys is the best prospect since Peyton/Elway. The Browns would be without a 1st round pick for 1 year. The trade would have the same lasting impact as the Quinn trade except Luck is what Diam dreamed Quinn could be. The Browns would still have their 2nd and 3rd rounders where Heckert has proven, especially in the 2nd round, he can find starters. Once the Browns have a legitimate franchise QB everything else becomes easier.
Now if Heckert thinks Luck isn't going to be as good as advertised or that Luck/Barkley/RG III /Tannehill rates about equal with Luck then DON"T make the trade. I would rather use 3 first round picks on Luck than use a 1st round pick on Jones/Barkely/RG III/Tannehill and hope they can overcome their weaknesses.
If the Colts get the pick and take Luck it''ll be the most unfair thing I can think of. Seriously to go from Peyton Manning the last 15 years to getting the best prospect since Peyton who will most likely lead the franchise for the next 15. At this point if its down to Dolphins/Colts I hope the Dolphins win it but overall the Browns only hope of getting Luck is if the Rams get the pick or the Colts decide they want focus on the next years with Manning and trade the pick.
Go Browns!!
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Dawg Talker
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If we could move up to #1 with both of our 1st rounders and our 4th this year and a 1st and 4th next year...I'd really have to think about doing that. Imagine a draft looking something like this
Rd 1 : Andrew Luck - QB Stanford
Rd 2 : Mike Adams - RT Ohio State
Rd 3 : Greg Childs - WR Arkansas or Jeff Fuller - WR Texas AM
Rd 5 : Tank Carder - OLB TCU
Man that looks good to me...
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pete Prisco Oberservations (McCoy)
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