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D, I wasn't ignoring you when you said if I know I should freakin' say it. I'd gone to my girlfriends after my "guess again" post. Over there, we have an agreement: I don't go anything football, because if I do, then she gets to watch Sex In The City, and as much as I love football, I hate that stOOpid show even more. 
DC, I was sure you were making one of those comments which suggested that while only those 3 guys have opinions that matter, it more meant that when certain people suggest McCoy doesn't have much time left, said opinions don't matter. One of those "you aren't in the FO so fortunately your opinion is meaningless" kinda deals.  If you didn't mean that, then I had it wrong. It wouldn't be the first time that debate move has been used.  You know the one's......you aren't in the office so you can't know what they are thinking.....if you know so much, why aren't you a scout or an NFL exec......you're about as sharp as a bag of wet mice......oh, wait, that's not on this board, that's my boss talking to me...wrong topic!
I didn't think for a second you were ignoring me.. I figured you were busy and would respond when you could.. No worries at all.... 
WOW, you certainly read way more into DC's comment than needed to be read in..
Oh,, by the way,, just so you are aware,,, You ARE NOT in the FO so you can't possibly know
sorry, had to do it
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Getting back on track here, we finally have an actual case-studie where a team chooses to pass on a 1st round QB so they could focus on building the rest of the offense first. While I have my own opinions on this topic, this one will be interesting for all of us to follow going forward the next several years:
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PFT
While Seahawks fans wonder if Charlie Whitehurst or Tarvaris Jackson will start this week, we wouldn’t blame some of them if they wondered “What if?” with the Bengals coming to town.
Reports before the draft claimed that the Seahawks strongly considered drafting quarterback Andy Dalton in the first round. Seahawks coach Pete Carroll confirmed as much, saying he and G.M. John Schneider liked “everything about” Dalton when they scouted him.
The Seahawks thought they needed to build their offensive line first before they picked a franchise quarterback. They took tackle James Carpenter; he’s quietly improved his play after a rough start.
Dalton, meanwhile, has helped the Bengals jump out to a 4-2 record. He has a higher quarterback rating than players like Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, and Cam Newton, although we anticipate that won’t be true once the Bengals play the tougher part of their schedule.
It’s way too early to decide whether the Seahawks erred in passing on Dalton. He may or may not be a “franchise quarterback” and perhaps the Seahawks can do better in the draft next April.
This much we know: Another season of Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst isn’t going to happen in Seattle.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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All Pro
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Pretend you're the Browns' GM and you have first pick. Would you give up Luck for 3 first rounders? Either would I, nor will anyone else. Forget it.
And it's still too early to tell about McCoy. Many great, not good but great, QBs starting today had lousy first years. I'm not predicting McCoy will be great, it's still too early to tell.
I will be royally annoyed if we reach for QB with our first pick, as we have so many needs that can be value picks.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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it more meant that when certain people suggest McCoy doesn't have much time left, said opinions don't matter. One of those "you aren't in the FO so fortunately your opinion is meaningless" kinda deals. If you didn't mean that, then I had it wrong. It wouldn't be the first time that debate move has been used. You know the one's......you aren't in the office so you can't know what they are thinking.....
Well, yes and no. It's fun to debate, I spend a considerable amount of time debating things I cannot control from football to politics to whether you can wear white after labor day... (just kidding on that last one... sort of...  )
It is true, however, that when decisions need to be made, our opinions do not matter... this board could have unanimous opinion that McCoy has hit his ceiling and is done but if H&H see something that leads them to believe he needs another year, guess who wins?
So I don't use the "Shut up your not in the FO so your opinion doesn't matter" because by definition, yours matters exactly the same as mine. Unless you really are Heckert, in which case I apologize and would appreciate it if you could send me autographed stuff.
yebat' Putin
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And it's still too early to tell about McCoy. Many great, not good but great, QBs starting today had lousy first years. I'm not predicting McCoy will be great, it's still too early to tell.
The difference is;;;
McCoy is a SMURF...With an ADEQUATE arm...
He's physically limited...So is Brees...So was Montana...There is no questioning that...NONE...
These guys cannot see over the LOS post snap...They MUST have throwing lanes...And must step up in the pocket...No throwing lane and they're rolling out...
Some of u guys waaaay underestimate SIZE in a QB...It's a major reason why a McCoy goes in 3...Brees in 2...Flutie to the USFL and an 11th rounder in the NFL...Montana in 3...
Go Browns!!!
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General Reply:
Colt is one of the most likeable players we have ever had. I don't think there is anyone not wanting this kid to be successful. Also 99% would agree that he needs to finish this season so we find out for sure what we truly have. I just think there are 3 groups, 1 the group that has lost all confidence in him, 2 the very patient group that is still riding the fence, 3 group that believes Colt is fine and all problems get pointed elsewhere.
I am in group 1. I admire group 2. Group 3 is just annoying.
Now as for next year's QB class. I love this class. Luck is getting a little to much hype although the kid has a world of talent but if you ask me to rank where I expect each QB to be in 5 years. Forget it.
I would not be the least bit surprised if all 4 aren't probowlers. It is that good of a class. Those that think Luck is the only QB in this class are likely the same ones saying Cam shouldn't be drafted in the first.
I really like that classification structure.
I'd say I'm Group 2, trending lower.
Group 1 has a component that likes to sniff their own farts and that' annoying.
Group 3 buys Colt jerseys and is probably either young or new to the game.
I'm most concerned with Colt's degrading footwork. He's thrown off his back foot more in the last two weeks than any time I can remember. Couple that with his average arm strength and that leads to badness.
Also what's up with throwing late over the middle too. Some guys like Rodgers can get away with it sometimes because he has a cannon. But it's almost always a terrible idea.
This team needs to get better all around on offense. But we're not so inept as to not be able to evaluate the QB position. I hope Colt improves because he looks like he's regressing.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
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thanks for the list of players too watch, Barkley just seems small too me, and has about the arm of McCoy. I haven't paid much attention to A&M, so will have to check them out.
As far as free agents go, just discovered that Matt Flynn will be a FA. He's been groomed in the west coast offense, i wonder if the browns would go hard for him??
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...well there is one thing McCoy is doing better than the Frye's Quinns, Andersons, and even Couch when I had lost confidence in them.
The Interceptions,
He is still keeping his interceptions to 1 or none per game and that is a big thing compared to where some of these qbs were in the past.
That's like saying an 80yo lady that drives 25 on the freeeway with her left blinker on, gets in fewer accidents.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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And it's still too early to tell about McCoy. Many great, not good but great, QBs starting today had lousy first years. I'm not predicting McCoy will be great, it's still too early to tell.
The difference is;;;
McCoy is a SMURF...With an ADEQUATE arm...
He's physically limited...So is Brees...So was Montana...There is no questioning that...NONE...
These guys cannot see over the LOS post snap...They MUST have throwing lanes...And must step up in the pocket...No throwing lane and they're rolling out...
Some of u guys waaaay underestimate SIZE in a QB...It's a major reason why a McCoy goes in 3...Brees in 2...Flutie to the USFL and an 11th rounder in the NFL...Montana in 3...
Joe Montana?...you mean the guy who was listed at 6-2 (188m) while McCoy is listed at 6-1 (185m)?...that Joe Montana?
...the Joe Montana who started just 1 game as a rookie?...23 atts..13 comp...56.5% and a 81 QB rating?
...the Joe Montana who started only 7 games in his second year?
...the Montana who was coached by a young Bill Walsh, who was a first time HC in the NFL in Montana's rookie year, in 1979, when Walsh's 49er team went 2 W- 14 L?
...the Joe Montana who improved and blossomed in his 3rd season, after the 49ers had built their offensive team around the west coast offense and rebuilt nearly the entire team over Walsh's first 3 seasons, via the draft and free agency?
Oh how quickly "some" forget how the greats came up in the NFL. Most were not instant successes as some of our Browns fans are demanding of McCoy.
A little "basic football" that seems to have been forgotten by some of our more vocal board members...a team's offensive skilled players (wr, te, rb, qb) will not reach their potential if and until the OFFENSIVE LINE first protects the QB long enough to read, go through progressions and has the time and room to step up in the pocket to throw a pass. RBs will not produce until the OFFENSIVE LINE opens holes.
The Browns offensive line is the weak link on the offense and don't expect the QB to overcome that weakness all by himself..he can't.
The Browns front office did not put a high priority on the offensive line in the last two drafts and now due to that low priority the Browns offensive line is being exposed as a weakness.
Give McCoy enough time to learn the new offense and give him the tools, making the Offensive Line a priority in the off season (draft and free agency). Then we can "expect" to see improvement in the offensive output.
Most of you are simply being unrealistic and unfair in your judgement of McCoy. He should at least be given time to develop, just as Joe Montana was...dont you agree?
...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Good post, Mac. I'm of the opinion that it's still too early to tell with McCoy (for any number of reasons), but I'm banking that Holmgren and company will take all circumstances into account at the end of the season when evaluating the QB.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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GREAT POST!!!!
Give the guy some weapons, and I know for a fact he will blossom into our franchise QB. We gotta stop this QB carousel.
Address the O-line, and get a speedy WR.. may need to add another RB..
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A little "basic football" that seems to have been forgotten by some of our more vocal board members...a team's offensive skilled players (wr, te, rb, qb) will not reach their potential if and until the OFFENSIVE LINE first protects the QB long enough to read, go through progressions and has the time and room to step up in the pocket to throw a pass. RBs will not produce until the OFFENSIVE LINE opens holes.
The Browns offensive line is the weak link on the offense and don't expect the QB to overcome that weakness all by himself..he can't.
BS flag, roughing the brain 
What about the Steelers or Colts? Do they have a better OL? Strange, because they seem to have 1k WR and RBs and go deep into the POs every year you know
Only in Cleveland homers want even MORE investment in the OL after pumping in 2 1sts, another top 50 player (currently on IR or was Steiny even a 1st rounder?), a 3rd, a 5th...a vet 3rd rounder (Greco), vet 5th rounder (Pashos) and another 3rd rounder (Cousins)
Do you realize that our franchise QB was drafted LATER than most of our OL? But yeah, let's fire some more Top 100 picks into the OL....they'll make the plays for us 
Our OL is FINE and only needs to gel...they way it's set up they'll play together for the next 3-4 seasons except RT...how about we take a real NFL QB talent for a change and see how that works? Colt isn't the only problem but by far the biggest we have on Offense...anyone recognized that we have no running game since DCs have the gameplan against Colt? He is not able to re-adjust and since then we have no running game, no good OL although BOTH were fine BEFORE our supposed franchise QB gor figured out...this trend started late last season and opponents STILL aren't doing anything differently...but yeah, let's keep the bum and change all other parts...unreal
#gmstrong
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A little "basic football" that seems to have been forgotten by some of our more vocal board members...a team's offensive skilled players (wr, te, rb, qb) will not reach their potential if and until the OFFENSIVE LINE first protects the QB long enough to read, go through progressions and has the time and room to step up in the pocket to throw a pass. RBs will not produce until the OFFENSIVE LINE opens holes.
The Browns offensive line is the weak link on the offense and don't expect the QB to overcome that weakness all by himself..he can't.
BS flag, roughing the brain
What about the Steelers or Colts? Do they have a better OL? Strange, because they seem to have 1k WR and RBs and go deep into the POs every year you know
Only in Cleveland homers want even MORE investment in the OL after pumping in 2 1sts, another top 50 player (currently on IR or was Steiny even a 1st rounder?), a 3rd, a 5th...a vet 3rd rounder (Greco), vet 5th rounder (Pashos) and another 3rd rounder (Cousins)
Do you realize that our franchise QB was drafted LATER than most of our OL? But yeah, let's fire some more Top 100 picks into the OL....they'll make the plays for us
Our OL is FINE and only needs to gel...they way it's set up they'll play together for the next 3-4 seasons except RT...how about we take a real NFL QB talent for a change and see how that works?
But a QB doesn't need time to master his second system in 14 games with a dubious at best WR core? Please
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Our OL is FINE and only needs to gel...they way it's set up they'll play together for the next 3-4 seasons except RT...how about we take a real NFL QB talent for a change and see how that works?
Our o-line is not really fine. Our o-line is injured. I don't put a lot of high value at the Guard positions, but for sure the RT spot needs to be addressed with someone we want LONG TERM. I wouldn't mind trading back up into the 3rd round for a OT if he is worth it.
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Is that all? Really? How about something Colt is GOOD at or shows promise? If the best that can be said in Colt's defense is "the others are boo boo", then it's pretty telling
and again, the Steelers, Bears and Colts have FAR WORSE OLs, yet they somehow had a nice Offense going...how does Wayne look pre and post Manning? or their OL? or the Steelers Offense with Batch in there?
#gmstrong
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Is that all? Really? How about something Colt is GOOD at or shows promise? If the best that can be said in Colt's defense is "the others are boo boo", then it's pretty telling
and again, the Steelers, Bears and Colts have FAR WORSE OLs, yet they somehow had a nice Offense going...how does Wayne look pre and post Manning? or their OL? or the Steelers Offense with Batch in there?
will look this up later when I have a bit more time, but off my memory:
Steeler offense was more run-oriented with Mendenhall, but did okay with Batch as QB for the first 4 games last season.
Colts couldn't run the ball with or without Peyton. Yes, their OL looks worse without quick-strike Peyton reading the blitzes and getting the ball out.
Bears Cutler has looked bad most of this season. Really bad. Forte has done well, but not sure you want to use them as an example.
#gmstrong
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..and again, the Steelers, Bears and Colts have FAR WORSE OLs, yet they somehow had a nice Offense going...how does Wayne look pre and post Manning? or their OL? or the Steelers Offense with Batch in there?
Bears offense thrives on Matt Forte.. and I don't even know why u mentioned the Colts..
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how does Wayne look pre and post Manning?
Quite a drop off but Garcon and Wayne have combined for 60 catches for 930 yards and 5 touchdowns...
Our top 2 WRs have 43 catches for 475 yards and 2 touchdowns...
And the Colts top 3 running backs have YPC averages of 4.0, 4.4, and 5.0... our top 2 have 3.3 and 3.5
Curtis Painter must ROCK!!!!!!
yebat' Putin
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..and again, the Steelers, Bears and Colts have FAR WORSE OLs, yet they somehow had a nice Offense going...how does Wayne look pre and post Manning? or their OL? or the Steelers Offense with Batch in there?
Bears offense thrives on Matt Forte.. and I don't even know why u mentioned the Colts..
Um, maybe because they have a crappy OL and are winless without Peyton after being a SB contender before? but that's just a guess 
#gmstrong
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how does Wayne look pre and post Manning?
Quite a drop off but Garcon and Wayne have combined for 60 catches for 930 yards and 5 touchdowns...
Our top 2 WRs have 43 catches for 475 yards and 2 touchdowns...
And the Colts top 3 running backs have YPC averages of 4.0, 4.4, and 5.0... our top 2 have 3.3 and 3.5
Curtis Painter must ROCK!!!!!!
So, you're trying to tell me that the Colts OL and RBs are better than ours? Maybe, just maybe our QB is the REASON why we have nothing going anymore since opposing Ds stack the box and are blitz happy....I think our OL and RBs were pretty fine before Colt took over....
and now to Painter...no, he's crap too..but you know what he has going over Colt? He actually THROWS to his WRs...Wayne had targets to catches % of well over 60% with Peyton, with Painter/Collins he is 57/30, barely above 50%
be prepared for some ugly numbers:
Wayne: 57 targets, 30 catches
Garcon: 54 targets, 30 catches
barely over 50%, not good
Massa: 37 targets, 18 catches
Robo: 9/3
Cribbs: 31/15
Little: 40/25 (with AVG U10yds/catch as most of his catches are underneath with YAC)
Norwood: 2/2
Soooo...the crappy Mr Painter/Collins combo has thrown AS MANY balls to their top 2 WR than Colt has to ALL our WRs DESPITE Colt has thrown WAY MORE passes than the Colts..same crappy %, even worse, but Painter has a better argument for defense since he at least TRIES and throws it more downfield too (much better yds/PA btw too)....pathetic numbers
Btw, that target to catches ratio for our WRs is simply PATHETIC, esp. considering our small ball approach....just further proof that McCoy can't get the ball to the sidelines enough
#gmstrong
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So, you're trying to tell me that the Colts OL and RBs are better than ours? Maybe, just maybe our QB is the REASON why we have nothing going anymore since opposing Ds stack the box and are blitz happy....I think our OL and RBs were pretty fine before Colt took over....
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the Colts OL and RBs have been in the same system for 10 years and ours have been in it for 10 weeks.
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I think our OL and RBs were pretty fine before Colt took over....
I thought they did fairly well under Colt last year. So how many game tapes does it require before you "get the book on somebody"?
yebat' Putin
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Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the Colts OL and RBs have been in the same system for 10 years and ours have been in it for 10 weeks.
Umm, that's my point...YOU guys want to change the personel around Colt, I want to get a new QB and keep the young OL together for the most part (would draft a mid round RT and mid round C or G to challange Lauvao/Pinky)
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I thought they did fairly well under Colt last year. So how many game tapes does it require before you "get the book on somebody"?
Usually 4-6, for some even more (depends on talent, Newton will take longer as he has many ways to beat you and can re-adjust)...some time needed to see patterns, give credit for strengths and then all it takes is 1 DC to gameplan the blueprint...happened to DA now to Colt, to every QB in the league...I hope to see Dalton regress from here on out, let's pray...
the ironic thing is: a mix of those 2 would be a Top 10 QB as DA could not exploit the underneath once the mid to deep lanes were clogged up and vice versa with Colt....Colt has some brains and takes care of the ball, DA was football dumb...both can't read a D very well though...still a "best of" of those would've been great
#gmstrong
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BS flag, roughing the brain
Yup, I agree.,.,,,,, that most everything you say and Toad says in the spirit of Knowing more than anyone else on the planet, including the FO of the Browns and the coaching staff of the Browns... Yup,,, That all deserves a BS Flag for sure
Honestly,, when you have to resort to this kinda rhetoric to attempt to prove a point,,, you automatically should get the BS flag.
In the end, McCoy may not be the guy we need him to be. I don't know.,
But I'm damn sure it's too freaking early to know anything.. Mac gave you some food for thought, I think it's time you sat down and have a bite to eat
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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In case you missed it...Holmgren himself has retracted from his "time" argument
#gmstrong
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In case you missed it...Holmgren himself has retracted from his "time" argument
Actually, I heard his interviews from last week and I didn't hear anything of the sort. I did hear him say that McCoy is the starter for the rest of this year (barring injury of course)
So you wil have to show me what you are talking about
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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I'm sure (or I should say I hope) that from the day Colt was named the starter that it was H&H's intention to give him this whole year... it's not like we have a viable option sitting behind him... and I would assume that is still the plan.
I wouldn't doubt that he is probably disappointed by what he has seen but I'm sure in his watching and his talking to coaches and whatnot that he has a much better handle on how much of this is Colt and how much of it is something else...
I have said this before and Django just ignores it, if we use a first to draft a QB and relegate Colt to the back-up spot or send him elsewhere, I will feel bad for the guy as a person but not as a Browns fan if that's what it takes to win.... but the fact remains that there are other factors that could be holding this offense back...
yebat' Putin
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We've been there Daman: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/10/mike_holmgrens_task_is_to_find.html"I know it's not healthy to change quarterbacks," Holmgren said at his Thursday news conference. "But you have to find that person. . . . Colt is just a pup. He's getting banged around out there. He will play this season and . . . we'll evaluate how he does at the end of the season. That's an important part of the equation." Cmon, what more does he have to say? He won't come out and say: "Colt is not our guy" but he talks about Colt AND "that person" in the same minute and he doesn't make any connection...and he started off with "I know it's not healthy to change quarterbacks"...hello? McFly? He's pretty much saying what all McCoy critics are saying: he better he gets better fast, because he'll be removed if he continues like that...somewhat reminds me of the Mangini situation last season where the company line was "we'll evaluate everything at season's end"...if he's not giving praise and throws company lines at you, that's all you need to know
#gmstrong
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You are taking everything he is saying and painting it in as negative a light as possible... that is obvious. Quote:
I know it's not healthy to change quarterbacks
Mid season or even in between seasons?
Quote:
But you have to find that person ...
Of course you do.
Quote:
Colt is just a pup. He's getting banged around out there.
Both are true.
Quote:
He will play this season and . . . we'll evaluate how he does at the end of the season. That's an important part of the equation.
Isn't that pretty much what everybody expects to happen?
You wouldn't happen to have the full quote or a link to a video would you? I hate it when they put ... in the middle of something like this because it just feels like they could intentionally or unintentionally be altering the meaning a bit.. it kind of reminds me of this:
WHAT A WOMAN SAYS:
Cmon, This place is a mess!
You and I need to clean.
Your pants are on the floor
and you'll have no clothes
if we don't do laundry now!
WHAT A MAN HEARS:
C'MON.... YOU AND I ... ON THE FLOOR... ... NO CLOTHES ... NOW!
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Quote:
We've been there Daman:
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/10/mike_holmgrens_task_is_to_find.html
"I know it's not healthy to change quarterbacks," Holmgren said at his Thursday news conference. "But you have to find that person. . . . Colt is just a pup. He's getting banged around out there. He will play this season and . . . we'll evaluate how he does at the end of the season. That's an important part of the equation."
Cmon, what more does he have to say? He won't come out and say: "Colt is not our guy" but he talks about Colt AND "that person" in the same minute and he doesn't make any connection...and he started off with "I know it's not healthy to change quarterbacks"...hello? McFly?
He's pretty much saying what all McCoy critics are saying: he better he gets better fast, because he'll be removed if he continues like that...somewhat reminds me of the Mangini situation last season where the company line was "we'll evaluate everything at season's end"...if he's not giving praise and throws company lines at you, that's all you need to know
Geez - talk about a stretch there. You read into it what YOU want, then try to pass that of as fact.
Come on man, if that's all you have to go on.............
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Legend
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Quote:
Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
a no big thang... we're all guilty of it sometimes....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
a no big thang... we're all guilty of it sometimes....
Rush Limbaugh said there is no such thing as confirmation bias and it is part of a liberal conspiracy so I don't believe in it.
yebat' Putin
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Great,, Tell me where what he says supports your thinking
NEVER once did I hear Heckert, Holmgren or Shurmer say that Colt is the guy forever. They've all said they'd start him this year.. and so far, are holding true to thier word.
Holmgren has said, as recently as last week, that McCoy needs to improve but that he's the starter for this year and then they will evaluate.
Where does it say he's shortened or changed the time line for Colt?
I mean, where does it say it without reading between the lines like you are fond of doing when doing so supports your theory.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That's what it says in the ... portion.
yebat' Putin
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
but the fact remains that there are other factors that could be holding this offense back...
Nope, that isn't accurate. Substitute the word "could" for the word "are." Hehe.
It's not all on McCoy, even though he must carry the cross for the football sins he's committed. Pinky and Lauvao have played poorly, Mack has been inconsistent, and Pashos\whomeverelsewevemarchedoutthere haven't done the job.
I'm less inclined to blame the receivers, as I've seen too many open guys on too many plays. I DO blame Shurmur because he's chosen to forsake actual receivers with yet another season of the failed Cribbs experiment, so the coaching staff have to shoulder some blame.
Then there's Hillis, who hasn't done this team any favors this year.
Yes, more than just the QB as to why the offense has been ugly.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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To be fair, Holmgren has said that it takes 2 full seasons to evaluate a young QB ...... not 5 games thrown together as a rookie and them one season ... but 2 full seasons. As Steve Doerschuk says ... it appears that Holmgren may fudge a little on that standard ...... http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/20...t-end-of-seasonCleveland Browns team report: Holmgren to evaluate McCoy at end of season PUBLISHED Thursday, Oct 20, 2011 at 6:27 pm EDT BEREA, Ohio — One reason Mike Holmgren was hired as Browns president in 2010 was his reputation for identifying and grooming quarterbacks. The jury is out on the one he has now. Holmgren said Thursday that Colt McCoy will be Cleveland’s starter for the remaining 11 games and then will be evaluated with an open mind. In the past, Holmgren has said a young quarterback needs two full seasons — he has specified, “That’s 32 games” — for a fair evaluation to be made. It appears Holmgren will fudge a bit on that standard and make a call on McCoy after he has started just 24 games. Counting his eight starts as a third-round pick in 2010, that’s how many starts McCoy will have under his belt if he stays healthy for the rest of this season. Holmgren paved the way for going a different direction, if necessary, with some of his comments Thursday. Notably, he said that no matter how painful it might be, a team must change quarterbacks every year, if necessary, until it finds “the one” the organization believes in. There's more ..... but that's the gist of it. Holmgren did say that you need 2 full years to see if a young QB is the guy or not, but now appears to be backing off of that a bit.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm sure that's not an unqualified 2 years. It takes time to figure out if a woman is the one you want to marry too, but if you put Sandra Bullock and Roseanne Barr across the room I could tell instantly that one is worth giving some time and the other is not.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
I'm sure that's not an unqualified 2 years. It takes time to figure out if a woman is the one you want to marry too, but if you put Sandra Bullock and Roseanne Barr across the room I could tell instantly that one is worth giving some time and the other is not.
I never would've guessed you as a roseanne type. Sheesh, I learn something new every day.
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Quote:
That's what it says in the ... portion.
a word is missing.. what was it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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... is in reference to the quote that has "..." where parts have been omitted for brevity or clarity... I'm sure Django has filled them in with "he's gone" and "he sucks" since he knows what H&H are thinking.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
To be fair, Holmgren has said that it takes 2 full seasons to evaluate a young QB ...... not 5 games thrown together as a rookie and them one season ... but 2 full seasons.
I don't see it., sorry., What I'm seeing is a young QB in a new system that is struggling and not all of the struggle is caused by the young QB.. I'm what would be called a casual observer, not a guru and even I can see that it doesn't fall on McCoys shoulders entirely.
I have to believe that HH&S all know that as well
Does that mean that he gets a pass this year and gets another year? I don't believe it does. I think that if they come to the conclusion that colts not the answer, they'll make moves either in FA or in the draft to get that next great guy.
But they will evaluate McCoy after 16 games.. I really don't believe they are looking at his time last year as a tool to use to evaluate him. I think that becuase they've referred to him as a rookie and a pup (Shurmur used the rookie thing and Holmgren used the pup thing)
I think you are looking at a 16 game audition (again, barring injury) this season and from there, we'll see.
I think thats what holmgren is saying.
He may, as he has in the past, stick with his theory of how long it takes to evaluate a QB or HC.. 2 years for both is what he's said. He stuck with 2 years on Mangini.. will he stick to two years for McCoy? I honestly don't know., But he's said nothing to indicate anything other than this year, he's starting.. beyond that,,, your guess is as good as mine.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pete Prisco Oberservations (McCoy)
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