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Perhaps he's getting hit more? I don't remember any of his fumbles being an "oops, forgot to hold on to the ball" type.
Have you seen any Browns games this season?
Actually, yes. But not through your eyes.
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j/c
List what traits you feel are necessary to succeed as an NFL QB. Then Grade how McCoy has done at each. Here's mine...
[F] Accuracy
- For such a dink 'n dunk offense I have never seen QB miss so many throws, put it on Watson's back shoulder, etc. If there is one QB attribute I can't compromise on, it's accuracy, and Colt is terrible at it except for 'extended handoffs.'
[D] Decision making
I'm giving him a D here only (ONLY) due to extenuating circumstances, being a 2nd year guy in a new system with limited time to prepare. Really, bottom line, he looks clueless out there.
[F] Arm Strength/Ability to throw a football
I have said this before but forget about arm strength, of which he has none by NFL standards, he can't consistently throw a spiral. He seemed a bit better at this in San Fran, but nothing to change my mind about it.
[D] Physical Stature
Given that the average guy in the U.S. is something like 5'9" maybe it is tough to accept, but 'short' 6'0" and 6'1" guys are far more common and the talent pool is much bigger to draw upon, but for every Drew Brees there are thousands of QBs that just can't overcome it. It is what it is.
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You yourself have said that only 3 of 11 offensive positions are worth keeping..
Actually...7 of 11...and there goes the rest of your funny little post
So...you said that 7 of 11 offensive players were worth keeping? Do I need to go back and quote where you posted the 3 offensive positions that YOU thought were keepers?
Funny little post? Really?
I will give you some time to explain your 7/11 are worth keeping comment. The more you post, the more you explain exactly why McCoy should get more time.
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Saying guys like Luavao and Pinkston get more time is COMPLETELY different than saying McCoy gets more time... Not that that's what your were going for or anything,... 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Saying guys like Luavao and Pinkston get more time is COMPLETELY different than saying McCoy gets more time...
Not that that's what your were going for or anything,...
That makes no sense whatsoever...what are you referring to?
We have issues beyond the OL...like at WR and RB and play-calling...and the QB needs to play better - which I have said numerous times.
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You said.. Quote:
I will give you some time to explain your 7/11 are worth keeping comment. The more you post, the more you explain exactly why McCoy should get more time.
Which lead me to believe, you were going to infer that because Pinkston, Lauvao, Marecic, etc get more time, that McCoy should get more time also...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Just clicking
Not sure I've ever seen a bigger bunch of cry babies on a message board then I'm seeing on this thread...
Oh, you should go to the Donks board and read about Tebow!
I'll pass thank you 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Title of a thread on the Texans MB. Quote:
Is Colt McCoy Gonna Shine In Houston, TX?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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You said..
Quote:
I will give you some time to explain your 7/11 are worth keeping comment. The more you post, the more you explain exactly why McCoy should get more time.
Which lead me to believe, you were going to infer that because Pinkston, Lauvao, Marecic, etc get more time, that McCoy should get more time also...
Lead you to believe that I was going to infer...hmmm...you lost me there again...Ok...
My post about "7/11" versus "3/11" is based on DJ's insistence that only Thomas, Mack, and the TEs were worthy of him calling them "keepers"...hence, my 3 of 11 comment.
That's 3 positions out of 11 on offense that we keep and 8 that we dump...his comeback was something very unclear stating 7 out of 11...maybe he meant 8 out of 11? Who knows?
He says 3 of 11 offensive players are worthy of being on our team...maybe Colt is supposed to make the other 7 guys become starter-quality.
The more he posts, the more people understand exactly why McCoy should - reasonably - get more time.
Maybe McCoy is the guy...maybe he is not. With this cast of characters, who knows?
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Based on who our starters usually are... I would say... QB - McCoy (I've pretty much given up on him) RB - Hillis (If he resigns) FB - Marecic (A rookie we've invested in) WR1 - Little (A rookie who's shown promise) WR2 - MoMass (Has shown flashes and I think can be a good #2) TE - Watson/Moore/Smith (Our best overall position depth wise) LT - Thomas (Duh) LG - Pinkston (Rookie thrown in, eh?) C - Mack (All-Pro, no matter how much django hates him  ) RG - Luavao (I'm iffy on him so far) RT - Pashos (Go away..) So IMO QB, and RT NEED to be replaced this offseason. If Steiny ever comes back that will help. However we could possibly improve the guard positions, if Pink or Luavao stumble... I'd also like to see an investment in another RB weather or not Hillis comes back... I REALLY wanted Kendall Hunter/Demarco Murray this year... #sadface
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I am sorry...but I remain confused as to what you are saying and to what you are replying.
But I will say this:
Hillis - IF he re-signs...he has an injury history with the hamstring and wants crazy money.
Marecic - A rookie we've invested in...ok
WR1 - who has shown promise...shoot...he is the best WR we have right now...and that is telling in and of itself.
WR2 - MoMass - he would be a 3rd/4th receiver on every other team in our division
TE - We actually have some talent here.
OL - you only want to replace one but are "iffy" on Lauvao - who has been awful - and have patience with the rookie Pinkston
Look...I am not saying McCoy is "the" guy. I am saying that with this team and this coach at this point in time...we cannot possibly know if McCoy is "the" guy or not.
The McCoy detractors seem to blow off the deficiencies of the other 7-8 guys on the offense who are questionable starters at best...let alone legit NFL players.
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All Pro
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if Tim Couch was qb'ing this team offense..all the anti McCoy crowd would say how Couch doesn't have enough around him
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Another scary thing is that McCoy has fumbled 8 times in 7 games so far this season.
i BET HE HAS SMALL HANDS... 
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You yourself have said that only 3 of 11 offensive positions are worth keeping..
Actually...7 of 11...and there goes the rest of your funny little post
So...you said that 7 of 11 offensive players were worth keeping? Do I need to go back and quote where you posted the 3 offensive positions that YOU thought were keepers?
Funny little post? Really?
I will give you some time to explain your 7/11 are worth keeping comment. The more you post, the more you explain exactly why McCoy should get more time.
Yeah, go back and quote me...I was pretty clear of what I think we should do, I want to yank/get rid/have no hope (call it like you want) 4 offense players....so 7/11 remain...what's so hard to understand?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Another scary thing is that McCoy has fumbled 8 times in 7 games so far this season.
i BET HE HAS SMALL HANDS...
oh you did NOT go there
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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C - Mack (All-Pro, no matter how much django hates him )
I don't hate him...he's a good NFL starting caliber OL (thanks to his superb run blocking) HE was just another bad value and investment by Mangini....I would rather have Orakpo, Crabtree, Maclin, Nicks, Matthews, Freeman, Oher and probably some others I cant think of right now OVER him...and we could have gotten them and they would have MORE impact than Mack imho
Also, he never was an All-Pro as far as I know...he was an injury replacement at the PB, which is what DA accomplished too...and he's playing a pretty mediocre season, esp. pass blocking...OL, esp interior OL get voted on name and draft status anyway...so that means little to nothing too...everybody loves Pouncey in PIT, but he's mediocre too...there are a handful of C out there who are as good or even better (more balanced in their skillset) than the Macks and Pounceys but nobody knows them because they were mid-late rounders or even UDFAs...you just don't draft a C in the 1st round
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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HE was just another bad value and investment by Mangini
You and several others spend entirely too much time worrying about value.
The guy can either play or he can't.. where you got him means nothing. This whole value thing is brought out by Kiper and other draft "guru" types as a talking point. That's all it is.
A year or two into thier career (when most players are hitting thier stride) does it really matter at all where they were drafted? Or is it just more important that they can play the freaking game?
This value thing falls into the same catagory as SOS.. Meaningless banter for the media to discuss.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yeah, go back and quote me...I was pretty clear of what I think we should do, I want to yank/get rid/have no hope (call it like you want) 4 offense players....so 7/11 remain...what's so hard to understand?
What's so hard to understand? Not a darn thing...that's what's so frustrating.
3 of your 7 need more time to see if they are any good or not...because we can't be sure yet. 4 of 11 must go...no opinion was given regarding the RB position. (I would conclude that it also needs more time.)
You said 3 positions were "Established/fine"...so 3 of 11 are worthy-of-being/known-to-be viable NFL starters.
Your own words:
Quote:
Yank: McCoy, Lauvao, Pashos, Massa
Keep/more time: Marecic, Pinky, Little
Established/fine: Thomas, Mack, TEs
I said that with your own words you give EXACTLY the reasoning as to why McCoy should get more time. It doesn't mean he will or he should...but it straight up builds the case. Then you get all incredulous as to why others might conclude that he should get more time.
Not to mention the play-calling madness and the newness of the system - I refuse to go there in a debate because it is what it is.
It's ok to disagree with my conclusion...I might be as wrong as can be...but everytime you rant on the WRs, Marecic, Pashos/Lauvao/Mack - and tell us who you would have drafted INSTEAD - you further provide the reasoning why McCoy should get more time.
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I said that with your own words you give EXACTLY the reasoning as to why McCoy should get more time.
My exact words said to YANK him...doesn't get any clearer...it's my opinion, feel free to disagree...why I give those other guys more time? They're younger and have shown something, something I have NOT seen from Colt last season too....everybody went apecrap about him and there I was re-watching the games and said to myself: "wtf"?
Marecic is probably the only guy I give more credit than what the tape of him deserves at this point...probably the leap of faith many of you had with McCoy but FBs usually take a little time to adjust to the league as rooks (See Vickers) but I've also seen some very nice blocks from him....Little and Pinky will be starters for years on this team and while Pinky was my fav value pick, I hated the Little pick...they already look "decent", they'll be ok to good going forward
See, my "more time" list has 3 rooks...Colt is no rook anymore...and he was supposed to be "advanced"
#gmstrong
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Here's a free agency idea: What about Vince Young?
30-17 as a starter. Athletic. Had a 98 passer rating last year. Led the league in deep ball pass completion rate.
We need a difference maker. Nobody can deny that Young is that. How many times did he save the Titans from a disastrous season?
I don't give a flip if he pissed off Fisher. Fisher never wanted him. It's the perfect safe play to see if we can snag someone who might produce a Michael Vick-like rebirth.
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I like how I pointed out exactly what you were going to say to him...
You said you didn't understand what I said...
Then went on doing exactly what I said you would do...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Not sure if VY is a good fit for this Offense but he'd be an upgrade over Colt in talent...it would only make sens though if we somehow can't get a QB in the draft and let him compete with Colt
If we draft a QB I'd rather have a Hasselbeck, Orton, Campbell type player...guys who know they're stop gaps and that maybe can teach the rook a thing or two...highly doubt VY fits the bill
Just draft the Okie State Offense in the 1st with Blackmon and then Weeden...add Adcock in the 3rd for RT and go defense BPA in the 2nd
#gmstrong
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Three things VY brings to the table immediately:
1) Neutralizes pass rush
2) Improves run game
3) Better deep ball ability
People stereotype him, but the realiity is he has become a much better passer the past two years. 6th in QBR in 2009, and 5th in pass efficiency in 2010 (not enough attempts to qualify for QBR).
But the number that jumps off the page with VY is that in 2009-10 the Titans were 12-6 when he started and 2-12 when he didn't. Again I say: difference maker. Look at Chris Johnson now that VY is no longer in Tennessee.
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He's dumber than a box of rocks and stands little to no chance to learn the WCO - the likes of which it tooks Brett Favre almost 3 years to fully learn.
And VY is buried on the depth chart for a reason - he just isn't that good. He has a number of exciting plays here and there, but besides that he's just not good.
This year: 1 attempt, 1 INT.
As for the Chris Johnson "argument"... CJ was rocking it just fine without VY as the QB in years past. In fact, most all of CJ's big yardage years came with Kerry Collins as the starting QB.
VY was on the bench.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Interesting thought ... can't say I am against it at this point. I mean, could we score less?
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j/c - may as well put this here . . .  McCoy headed toward most carries for Browns QBBy Steve Doerschuk CantonRep.com staff writer Nov 02, 2011 @ 12:33 AM Just because his name is Colt doesn’t mean he’s a workhorse. On the other hand, Browns running back Peyton Hillis has carried the ball 16 times in the last five games. Quarterback Colt McCoy has rushed 17 times in the last two. McCoy is on course to be the busiest running quarterback of the team’s expansion era. With pass protection shaky and the West Coast attack struggling, McCoy has been using his feet to kick-start the offense. With 28 carries through seven games, he is on a pace that would push him well past 60. The last Browns quarterback to run the ball 60 times was Mike Phipps in 1973. In his case, it beat passing. Phipps racked up 395 yards (6.6 a carry) and scored five touchdowns. As a passer, his interceptions outnumbered his touchdowns, 20-9. Head Coach Pat Shurmur has advised McCoy to be judicious about his runs, partly to keep from getting injured. Shurmur is not discouraging the impulse, though. Mobility is one of McCoy’s best attributes. McCoy threw one interception into the end zone at San Francisco when wideout Greg Little was double covered. “We had a little protection issue,” Shurmur said. “Colt scrambled. In that situation, you either run with the football or check it down.” For the most part in the last two games, though, McCoy hasn’t hesitated to take off. Through five games, he ran 11 times. In his last two, he has run 17 times for 59 yards. Here is a look at how often the Browns’ quarterbacks have run during the 13 expansion-era seasons. (and then I see nothing else on the page. . .  ) Copyright 2011 CantonRep.com. Some rights reserved
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Not saying anything one way or another ..... but man ... if I'm a Browns QB, the last guy I want to be compared to, in any way, is Mike Phipps.  lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I still don't know what you are talking about... In any event, I have been very consistent with my argument regarding why Colt needs/should-get more time. You predicting that I would continue to say he needs more time is no great feat on your part. 
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Not saying anything one way or another ..... but man ... if I'm a Browns QB, the last guy I want to be compared to, in any way, is Mike Phipps. lol
My thoughts exactly when I read Phipps' name!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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Here's a free agency idea: What about Vince Young?
30-17 as a starter. Athletic. Had a 98 passer rating last year. Led the league in deep ball pass completion rate.
We need a difference maker. Nobody can deny that Young is that. How many times did he save the Titans from a disastrous season?
I don't give a flip if he pissed off Fisher. Fisher never wanted him. It's the perfect safe play to see if we can snag someone who might produce a Michael Vick-like rebirth.
I've said my peace about McCoy so I'm done with it for now, but when I saw this, I had to chime in....
Like McCoy, I watched Young through his entire career here in Austin. Like McCoy, the offense was built around him and he succeeded against college-level teams. Like McCoy, his skill-set didn't translate to the NFL. Like McCoy, I didn't want any part of him, especially in the first round, and now after watching him implode as a leader and as a QB, I STILL want nothing to do with him.
Like all QB's, his numbers in terms of wins and losses are meaningless. Young is nothing more than a guy who can only operate out of an offense that is built around the "backyard football" concept. He's not a leader and he's not a team player. He quit on his team, and had one of the best coaches in the league in Jeff Fisher turn his back on him.
Vince Young would make zero sense for this team.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I still don't know what you are talking about...
In any event, I have been very consistent with my argument regarding why Colt needs/should-get more time.
You predicting that I would continue to say he needs more time is no great feat on your part.
You wanted to know who Django wanted to keep...
I assumed you wanted to kmnow that, because he would say guys like Pinkston and Luavao, both young guys...
I assumed that after he said that, you would say "If those young guys get more time, why doesn't McCoy?"
That was my point...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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He's dumber than a box of rocks and stands little to no chance to learn the WCO - the likes of which it tooks Brett Favre almost 3 years to fully learn.
Well, he wasn't dumb enough to send his picture in only Crocs to a girl who told him to stay away from her...
I'm just sayin'... Favre ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, either.
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Well, there's no helping someone that wears Crocs, and I chalk it up to old age and head injuries  ... but the point is that one of the best WCO QB's of our generation took 3 years to learn this system and VY is notoriously slow.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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What's your point? We spent exactly the same as the 49ers did on OL: 3 top picks, a 3rd and a 5th
dj...the point...which you obviously whiffed on...until the 49ers decided to make their offensive line a high priority in the draft, their franchise QB, Alex Smith, looked like a bust.
....until the Browns can protect McCoy, giving him a chance to develop as a QB instead of running for his life behind "one of the worst performing offensive lines in the NFL this year"...we won't know if we need a QB.
Maybe...just maybe...those Browns fans who believe McCoy is not the QB to lead the Browns to the playoffs, maybe you should study the 49ers example and try to understand how the QBs performance is tied to the performance of his offensive line.
If the Browns offensive line could do what the 49ers offensive line is doing...run block and give their QB enough time to pass the ball...maybe Colt McCoy's performance will improve, just as Alex Smith's performance improved after the 49ers finished the job of rebuilding their Oline in 2010, adding two 1st round picks.
That is the point I'm trying to make.
The Browns need to finish building their Oline, hopefully in the next draft.
BTW, the Browns start a 1st/LT...5th/LG...1st/C...3rd/RG...5th/RT
........... the 49ers start a 1st/LT...1st/LG...5th/C...3rd/RG...1st/RT
For a moment, let's just forget how much the Browns have invested in their Offensive line...and let's look at "the performance" of the Browns offensive line..because that is the core issue..
This Browns offensive line ranks 29th in total rush yardage...
......................................ranks 30th in yds per rush..3.2 yds per carry
..............................................14th in QB sacks allowed, with 17 sacks
..............................................26th in QB hits with 44 QB hits
By any measure you want to use, this Browns offensive line is playing "POORLY". Yet some want to lay the Browns poor offensive performance on our QB and want the front office to draft another QB...
IMO, believing a new QB is going to improve the Browns offensive line performance shows a lack of understanding in the basic principles of offensive football.
The high priority the 49ers put on finishing the rebuild of their offensive line in 2010, using their two 1st round draft picks to select the #3 ranked OT, Anthony Davis...and the #1 ranked OG, Mike Iupati, is beginning to pay huge dividends for the 49er offense.
SF QB, Alex Smith, who many considered a bust, is now ranked as the # 9 rated QB in the NFL.
SF RB, Frank Gore is the # 5 ranked rb with 675 yds in 7 games.
Hopefully the Browns front office and our fans will learn from the 49er example and draft Oline before they even think about drafting another QB. If the goal of this franchise is compete in the playoffs and ultimately win a Super Bowl, they must build one of the best offensive lines in the NFL.
The front office has the rest of the season to evaluate the performance of our OGs and decide if they are starting material or backup material. Heckert and Holmgren also need to evaluate Steinbach's future with the Browns..after 9 season in the NFL, he very well may be on the downside of his career.
Hopefully, everyone realizes the Browns need a RT. I would not mind seeing the Browns move Pinkston to RT to see if he is capable of filling that position, which might eliminate the need to draft a RT.
The Browns know they have a LT and Center, capable of playing at a playoff level...the rest is "unknown", but needs to be determined before next years draft.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Mac im with you 100% on that...
One thing id change...I'd just let Pinkston stay at LG, he's improved every game and has looked pretty decent the last game or two there...I think with time he can be the same caliber LG Steiny has been for us. I'd rather keep him there. We can draft a RT, I'd also get a G later in the draft, unless Lauvao or Greco can improve to the point where they are good. But, right now they havent been
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All Pro
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best post in this thread.
A young qb's best friend is a running game. It keeps the defense honest and you can run play action among other things.
Rutigliano,Rucker,Golic, Dixon have all commented McCoy has no weapons around him.
Charley Casserly on 92.3 said he didn't know what kind of offense they are running in Cleveland.
a qb that is hit 44 times..is going to develop some bad habits.
look at all the qb's in the AFC that have been hit as much as McCoy.....
the record of their team is porous too.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Charley Casserly on 92.3 said he didn't know what kind of offense they are running in Cleveland.
I've wondered that myself. Nothing they have done has been even remotely consistently successful so it is really hard to tell what they want the staple offense to look like.
yebat' Putin
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Hall of Famer
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"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pete Prisco Oberservations (McCoy)
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