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2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Sep 2011
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Does this change anyone's opinion?
Nope, never disputed the Global Warming aspect only the "Man Made" part.
Do yourself a favor and take a college course in Earth Sciences, I'd be shocked if you came out of that class not thinking that the human race has had a huge impact as far as global warming is concerned.
Did your class explain why Temperatures rose from 1910 to 1940 while hydrocarbon use remained almost unchanged and then from 1940 - 1970 Temperatures dropped while hydrocarbon use rose 300%+?
Get back to me when you find that info in your old text books. And do yourself a favor next time and don't make assumptions about people and what classes they may or may not have taken.
You're right, it's just coincidence that the greenhouse gas levels are much higher than ever before after the industrial revolution and since cars have become a common commodity around the world.
I honestly don't care about temperature, it's a stupid argument. Average temperature will fluctuate on a regular basis, certain weather patterns will come around and while you may have a record high temperature somewhere in the world you can also have a record low for averages, it's just how it works. The fact is the green house gas level is rising at an alarming rate, whether or not you want to acknowledge that is up to you.
Last edited by LittleGregBig; 10/22/11 08:56 PM.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
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Perhaps you should re-read all the other threads. I have never questioned the earth warming.
Never said you did. What i said was that you threw doubt on some of the data set, stating that since some of the stations were not exactly ideally placed that it invalidated the hypothesis.
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It has cooled and warmed since day one.
Why has it? What are the reasons behind it changing in the past?
There are no sacred cows.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,887 |
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Perhaps you should re-read all the other threads. I have never questioned the earth warming.
Never said you did. What i said was that you threw doubt on some of the data set, stating that since some of the stations were not exactly ideally placed that it invalidated the hypothesis.
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It has cooled and warmed since day one.
Why has it? What are the reasons behind it changing in the past?
I can't state why it has warmed and cooled in the past. What I will hypothesize is that those reasons, whatever they are, are also responsible for this slight warming trend.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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You mean green house gasses like say.....Carbon Dioxide.....the largest and most talked about greenhouse gas....of wich humans are resposible for approximately 1-2 % of the CO2 released into the air??? Those greenhouse gasses??? Yes....I can see how that 1-2 % is the DRIVING factor in "Global Warming"...[sarcasm off]
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
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I can't state why it has warmed and cooled in the past. What I will hypothesize is that those reasons, whatever they are, are also responsible for this slight warming trend.
One of the many plausible reasons you talk about is changes in the composition of the atmosphere, like increasing CO2. In the past, could increases or decreases in atmospheric CO2 be responsible for altering the temperature of the world?
There are no sacred cows.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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You mean green house gasses like say.....Carbon Dioxide.....the largest and most talked about greenhouse gas....of wich humans are resposible for approximately 1-2 % of the CO2 released into the air??? Those greenhouse gasses??? Yes....I can see how that 1-2 % is the DRIVING factor in "Global Warming"...[sarcasm off]
CO2 has a logarithmic, not linear, effect on warming. So the higher you go on the graph, the more effect you see for an increment. What evidence do you have that this small amount of CO2 is negligible?
Also, while we contribute little to the overall cycle, our impact has been 2-3 ppm increase in CO2 per year for about the last 30 years. We've gone from ~270ppm pre industrial age to 392ppm this past year. Dating back to the middle ages with ice cores, we never see variation beyond 7ppm from 270. So why has it changed all of the sudden? The obvious answer is that it's a human caused increase. Our increasing dependence on fossil fuels during this time is enough to explain it.
There are no sacred cows.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Ok so we have had a 45% increase in parts per million over 200 years.... that averages out to .225% increase per year...yes that is less than a quarter of 1 percent of 1 part per MILLION.
In the same period of time we have had an increase in the World Population on the range of 676%. So what is the REAL culprit here??? All these mean and nasty evil machines or the fact that there are almost 6 BILLION MORE PEOPLE ON THE PLANET EXHALING CO2?????
And the absolute answer is ....YOU DON'T KNOW....and the "Scientists" ( term I use loosely for many posing as such) don't care to find out. They have a political and monetary agenda to carry out. One that you are all to happy to jump on to and defend because we attack what you consider a collegue.
Again. So many people have made the case that we understand that things have changed or are changing. But what we refute is the purported "Causes" being thrown out for these changes. Because there is no foundation of fact beind the claims. And it is reckless, and STUPID even, to economically RUIN your particular civilization, when 1) The Claims can't be proven. (We don't know WHY things are changing) 2) Other civilizations won't comply to the same standards. 3) Our efforts can't even be shown to have an impact...especially in the case where our efforts are counteracted by those around us who don't subscribe to our standards....
Global Warming/Climate Change is NOT a Scientific Issue.......It is a Political and Monetary One...and until you get that through your head (Or by some miracle it is dropped by the political landscape as to allow a real scientific exploration into the causes)...we will continue to have these same conversations.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
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In the same period of time we have had an increase in the World Population on the range of 676%. So what is the REAL culprit here??? All these mean and nasty evil machines or the fact that there are almost 6 BILLION MORE PEOPLE ON THE PLANET EXHALING CO2?????
To use some global warming logic here ... I can prove that if I pee in a cup of water, I can raise the temperature of the water a few degrees. I can also show that the temperature of our oceans has raised a fraction of a degree over the last few decades. Therefore I can unequivically state that 6 billion people peeing into what eventually will wind up in the ocean is what's causing the water to warm up ... and there's the real reason behind global warming ... so everyone stop whizzing about!!
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1) The Claims can't be proven. (We don't know WHY things are changing) 2) Other civilizations won't comply to the same standards. 3) Our efforts can't even be shown to have an impact...especially in the case where our efforts are counteracted by those around us who don't subscribe to our standards....
Number 2 is the big one for me ... There's all this peeing and moaning about getting carbon emissions under control, but when push comes to shove in globally regulating it ... it only seems like the United States is the one that really has to do anything that will cost money. I actually wouldn't mind putting up all kinds of emissions standards, so long as everyone in the world had to play by the same rules. But the same politicians that claim the world is going to boil in a few decades, seem to have no problem with letting China and India continue to pollute as they are.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224 |
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In the same period of time we have had an increase in the World Population on the range of 676%.
Sorry, you're barking up the wrong tree. We know that the CO2 increase is a result of industrialization and not normal exhalation due to the types of carbon dioxide currently in the air. It's demonstrably wrong. The carbon in the air matches the isotope concentrations of burning fossil fuels, not normal animal respiration. Google this journal article from the 80's for a more in depth rundown on the facts. Stuiver, M., Burk, R. L. and Quay, P. D. 1984. 13C/12C ratios and the transfer of biospheric carbon to the atmosphere. J. Geophys. Res. 89, 11,731-11,748.
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And the absolute answer is ....YOU DON'T KNOW....and the "Scientists" ( term I use loosely for many posing as such) don't care to find out. They have a political and monetary agenda to carry out. One that you are all to happy to jump on to and defend because we attack what you consider a collegue.
I just showed you how I knew, evidence based fact. What do you have to refute it? Your conspiracy theory? Please. When you get some real evidence, please present it.
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But what we refute is the purported "Causes" being thrown out for these changes. Because there is no foundation of fact beind the claims.
Refutations require due reasoning. So far, the skeptical side of the issue hasn't shown there is any reasonable cause for the warming that we're seeing. Everything other than CO2 has been shown to not match the rise in temperature we're currently seeing. But, if you have an idea, feel free to test it and publish it ... prove them wrong.
Again, there's ton's of evidence supporting the idea, you just don't like it.
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And it is reckless, and STUPID even, to economically RUIN your particular civilization,
That's a bit hyperbolic don't you think? You want the USA to come out of this unscathed? Start putting 5% of our GDP towards research into clean fission, fusion and solar technologies, then start selling it to other countries. The point is we need more research into this area. The USA can get out of this mess by doing what we do best, be smarter and more innovative than the rest of the world, but you need to start trusting the experts to do what they do best, research. There are other ways to do this, we dont need to wreck our economy to do it. And honestly, it's a bit of a weak excuse used to substantiate your skepticism.
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Global Warming/Climate Change is NOT a Scientific Issue.......It is a Political and Monetary One...and until you get that through your head (Or by some miracle it is dropped by the political landscape as to allow a real scientific exploration into the causes)...we will continue to have these same conversations.
The question has been answered scientifically. Do we know everything about it? No. But we have enough evidence pointing us in this direction. This independent study proves that global warming is occurring. We know that CO2 is a chemical that takes a photon of light and radiates (an almost 100 year old discovery, long before this debate ever began) and has been increasing in concentration for the past 200 years, when in the past few million years it hadn't changes more than 7ppm.
Also, I find it interesting that you want governmental regulation of science. That's what Rick Perry's administration did in Texas this past month, censoring science to put their own spin on it. One that backs up their bias.
There are no sacred cows.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
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To use some global warming logic here ... I can prove that if I pee in a cup of water, I can raise the temperature of the water a few degrees. I can also show that the temperature of our oceans has raised a fraction of a degree over the last few decades. Therefore I can unequivically state that 6 billion people peeing into what eventually will wind up in the ocean is what's causing the water to warm up ... and there's the real reason behind global warming ... so everyone stop whizzing about!!
Nah, it's based of the flawed logic I corrected in my first paragraph in the post above this one. You're assuming that variable isn't taken into context, when it is. And also we can tell the difference between fossil fuel derived CO2 and respiratory CO2.
There are no sacred cows.
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