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Quote:
"One of the O-linemen from Cleveland, they gave it up every play, most of the time, I'd say about 70 percent of the time, whether it was run or pass. They had no clue they were doing it, but I figured it out from just watching the film."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/27/SPNM1LMMEN.DTL
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I wouldn't be surprised at all. I swear that this season, it seems to me that on most plays, our tackles are releasing before the snap. I don't know how we haven't gotten more false starts.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I wouldn't be surprised at all. I swear that this season, it seems to me that on most plays, our tackles are releasing before the snap. I don't know how we haven't gotten more false starts.
I've noticed this too.
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Well, we do have two new guards.. one a rookie and the other might as well be.. Could curry be speaking of one of them? I have doubts that it would be Thomas or Mack.. Pashos,, I just don't know
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Another thing that doesn't help is that it seems like, many times, we're snapping the ball with very little time left on the play clock. When there's 3 seconds on the play clock, the defense can pretty much guess that a snap is coming.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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We are definitely tipping off our screens. Defense doesn't even p[lay the QB on most of our screens, they just bail to the target.
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Another thing that doesn't help is that it seems like, many times, we're snapping the ball with very little time left on the play clock. When there's 3 seconds on the play clock, the defense can pretty much guess that a snap is coming.
That's because of all of the presnap adjustments, blocking assignment changes, audibles and formation changes.
yebat' Putin
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I wish they'd start tipping off their teammates, instead.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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My money's on Pinkston although Lauvao makes sense too. Back in the day you could look at an OL guy's hand and if his fingers were white (pressing hard into the ground) it meant run and if they weren't it meant pass. Basically you could tell if he was firing forward or not. On tape you couldn't see that. You could see hip angle though. Butt high up in the air, he's coming hard forward. Relaxed, he's going to settle into pass pro. Interesting...and I hope it's found out and corrected by the Browns for good. Thanks Aaron! 
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yep, in HS OL were pretty bad about the little things too. you could usually look at an OGs feet and tell which way his first step was going to be because most couldn't help but angle it slightly that way. or look to their heels and tell if they were setting up for pass or coming forward for run.
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I was pretty good at reading the offensive players in high school. (in high school)
Problem is, I don't believe this may be something looking at film will show. Unless it's an obvious thing - I doubt the coaches will know who to correct, or what the giveaways are/were.
I hope it gets corrected - but if no one knows what the giveaway is, how do you correct it?
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well, in poker the first step in fixing a tell is knowing you have one. we should have coaches looking for tells on the OL anyway, but they should look extra careful if being tipped off there is one to be had.
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This would explain a bunch if true. Blitzing if you have some edge confirmed helps a lot. Centers can do the white finger thing as well. Much of it is the time clock. Our tackles are seemingly mediocre and leave early much of the time. I am also surprised we haven't collected more flags. If it can be seen on film, wow, that is a gotta correct thang. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
" Now that I'm in a role where there's not too much thinking , it's not hard. I'm picking up tendencies, I mean, little small stuff, that I'm seeing on film.
"One of the O-linemen from Cleveland, they gave it up every play, most of the time, I'd say about 70 percent of the time, whether it was run or pass. They had no clue they were doing it, but I figured it out from just watching the film."
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/26/SPNM1LMMEN.DTL#ixzz1c1LxWFBc
I think we need to back up in this quote a bit, I'm going to need a better source.
But if true, it sure would explain a lot.
We did seem to get better when Lauvao went out.
Last edited by GratefulDawg; 10/27/11 05:48 PM.
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Curry of all people notice it but nobody has ever mentioned it before...could be I guess but who knows if it's even true.
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I hope it gets corrected - but if no one knows what the giveaway is, how do you correct it?
Maybe Curry noticed it, maybe somebody pointed it out to him, but if a 3rd year guy with minimal experience can notice it from film, surely our own braintrust with it's years of experience should also be able to figure out what it is, especially now that they know they have to look for it.
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Another thing that doesn't help is that it seems like, many times, we're snapping the ball with very little time left on the play clock. When there's 3 seconds on the play clock, the defense can pretty much guess that a snap is coming.
I agree. The MLB can start a countdown....3, 2,1....you hear one, you go
And I agree, it does look like our RT is back a half a step before anyone else.
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seems to me that Joe Thomas would be teaching these guys a few tricks of the trade.. and of course the o-line coach..
if another team is seeing it, then I know it goes on in practice.. it should be getting picked up.
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Tackle Joe Thomas doesn't think offensive line is tipping off plays: Cleveland Browns Insider Published: Thursday, October 27, 2011, 11:26 PM Updated: Thursday, October 27, 2011, 11:46 PM Jodie Valade, The Plain Dealer By Jodie Valade, The Plain Dealer Follow Share Email Print raiders browns.JPGView full sizeJoshua Gunter, The Plain DealerRunning back Montario Hardesty, above, had only 35 yards rushing on 11 carries against the Raiders on Oct. 16. Oakland linebacker Aaron Curry says the Browns' offensive line was tipping off plays. BEREA, Ohio — As the Browns' starting left tackle, Joe Thomas figures he has seen "every snap of every practice and every game" this season. He has studied how his offensive line plays, watched every tendency and every trend. And Thomas would like to know what Oakland Raiders linebacker Aaron Curry says he spotted in film before Cleveland played at Oakland on Oct. 16. Curry told Bay Area reporters that he has been studying film extensively since an Oct. 14 trade sent him to the Raiders from Seattle. And with his newfound focus on the intricacies of the game, Curry said he noticed that a Browns offensive lineman unwittingly betrayed whether the team was going to pass or run on most plays. "One of the O-linemen from Cleveland, they gave it up every play, most of the time, I'd say about 70 percent of the time, whether it was run or pass," Curry told reporters. "They had no clue they were doing it, but I figured it out from just watching the film." Thomas laughed when told of Curry's comments Thursday. "He must be a wizard because after being there one day, he figured it out?" Thomas said. "He must be really smart. . . . I'm sure if a guy was leaning really far back or really far forward, maybe [he could see it]. But for one day? That is very impressive." Thomas scoffed at the idea that Oakland's singular linebacker might have seen something in film that the Browns' legions of coaches and players who self-scout might have missed this season. The Browns, however, have played with a patchwork offensive line at times this season, with rookie Jason Pinkston filling in at left guard for injured Eric Steinbach, and right tackle Tony Pashos missing the first three games of the season with injury. "If I would have noticed something, we would have taken care of it," Thomas said. web page
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thought so. But Curry doesn't seem the type to just talk for no reason.
o well.. the game is over.
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Maybe he just wanted to try and show off for his new team...nobody else on the Raiders mentioned it.
He doesn't pick up any signals with the Hawks and now in a couple days with his new team he picks it up.
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Stuff like that is often on the C...not saying it is Mack, but the % goes up imho...he's the one who has to make adjustments and he seems overwhelmed with it in the new Offense, so maybe his eyes (or head) are "flying" more/looking deeper into the D when it's a pass and he "relaxes" when it's a run and he can just push his man in front of him, just an example...remember that in his rookie season our Offense was as pathetic and the OL looked like trash for the 1st half of the season too, so it could be Mack being overwhelmed with a new system and its mental requirements
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That could be ....
And it could also be that he has 2 really young Guards playing on either side of him ....
Or a combination of both factors.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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thought so. But Curry doesn't seem the type to just talk for no reason.
o well.. the game is over.
He doesn't. If he's commenting on it, there's probably some validity to it. That being said, it's worth looking into if it improves your offense, isn't it?
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I have little doubt, the Browns coaching staff (especially Warhop) know if and who on the Oline might be tipping off the plays. The 49ers might be lying about being able to read a tip off, attempting to play head games with our Olinemen..which sounds like something a Harbaugh coached team might attempt.
IF someone on the Browns Oline is tipping off plays, the coaching staff needs to tell the Olineman to continue tipping off the plays, just as they have been...but call a running play while the Olineman tips off the play as pass...or...call a pass when our Oline is tipping off a play as a run.
Olineman can play tricks too.
It will only take a few times of giving a phony tip off before the 49ers defensive coaches realize the Browns have corrected the problem (if there is one) and our Oline is now playing games with the 49er defense.
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Wait a minute. I thought curry played for the raiders. Is s.f. now saying they saw the "gives" also from our O line?
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It will only take a few times of giving a phony tip off before the 49ers defensive coaches realize the Browns have corrected the problem (if there is one) and our Oline is now playing games with the 49er defense.
hopefully we have a few TD's by then.. lol.
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Stuff like that is often on the C...not saying it is Mack, but the % goes up imho...he's the one who has to make adjustments and he seems overwhelmed with it in the new Offense, so maybe his eyes (or head) are "flying" more/looking deeper into the D when it's a pass and he "relaxes" when it's a run and he can just push his man in front of him, just an example...remember that in his rookie season our Offense was as pathetic and the OL looked like trash for the 1st half of the season too, so it could be Mack being overwhelmed with a new system and its mental requirements
Let's assume for a moment that your (entirely plausible) supposition is true... and that the job is bigger than Mack is able to handle at present. (Now remember- you did say that we sucked for the first half of last season...) What are his chances of improvement during the rest of the season, as regards line calls, fixing 'tells'.... you know- the "mental game" of playing NFL center?
(I ask this question with these specific parameters, because you're already on record regarding what you think of him in the other areas...)
Predict his immediate future for us, if you will.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Actually what I did say is he (and the Offense) struggled in his 1st year in Mangini's Offense, which was new to him too of course, NOT last season...last year he had a good season, had the Offense down
I can't predict his future, but I suppose he will get better just as he got better his rookie year...I'm just a bit disappointed it takes him so long to process stuff...he was a very high investment for a C after all, so I expect better and faster results and his "mental game" so far has been more that of a C project, not that of a Mangold-type investment...I', also concerned HO MUCH he gets better in this Offense as I think this WCO is not suited to his style of play....that's not his fault, he was drafted by Mangini for his smash mouth blocking Offense style....for me in this Offense he's a G only
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I give this a high likelihood of being true (there is no reason to talk about this after the fact for a team you don't play again unless it was true). It is also pretty easy to verify by watching tape (while you may not uncover the tell, you should be able to see the D guessing correctly way too often). And of course, if this is true, it does more to explain our offensive problems than anything else (since it is likely D's would share with each other).
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Fot it to come out means Curry noticd something..and we've heard opposing defenses in the past say some similar things about the Browns in he past..just as we wondered why so many of our blitzers were easily getting picked.
Whoever it is ,Pinkston/Lavaman/Pashos or even Mack..the coaches need to work on them..I seem to remember Tucker used to tip off the DE's at times because he would tip his body back and left up immediately..he didn't have the best lateral movement either.
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Actually what I did say is he (and the Offense) struggled in his 1st year in Mangini's Offense, which was new to him too of course, NOT last season...last year he had a good season, had the Offense down
I can't predict his future, but I suppose he will get better just as he got better his rookie year...I'm just a bit disappointed it takes him so long to process stuff...he was a very high investment for a C after all, so I expect better and faster results and his "mental game" so far has been more that of a C project, not that of a Mangold-type investment...I', also concerned HO MUCH he gets better in this Offense as I think this WCO is not suited to his style of play....that's not his fault, he was drafted by Mangini for his smash mouth blocking Offense style....for me in this Offense he's a G only
Sorry but this is just ridiculous.
The guy won the Draddy, the academic Heisman for the nation's top scholar athlete, graduated in legal studies from Cal Berkley, and scored one of the highest scores on the Wonderlic coming out in the draft.
He's a third year, pro-bowl center who's had the opportunity to face some of the top schemed defenses in the league in the Ravens and Steelers.
And you're saying that something the Browns are doing schematically with the WCO is confusing him?
What???
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You know perfectly well that academic intelligence and football smarts aren't the same thing.
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And you know perfectly well that its unreasonable to assume he picked up the last offense just fine but can't understand this one.
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I find it absurd that one of the smartest centers in the NFL, who is a veteran at this point, would have a difficult time processing any OL scheme put in front of him.
That's it.
This isn't rocket science.
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I find it absurd that one of the smartest centers in the NFL, who is a veteran at this point, would have a difficult time processing any OL scheme put in front of him.
That's it.
This isn't rocket science.
I was wondering,, did anyone remember he just had surgery 3 weeks ago? Could it be nothing to do with smarts but something to do with physicality?
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And you know perfectly well that its unreasonable to assume he picked up the last offense just fine but can't understand this one.
Why? That excuse is used for everyone else on the offense.
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And I agree, it does look like our RT is back a half a step before anyone else.
I made mention of this during our first preseason game vs. GB.
It's not uncommon on third and (obvious) passing downs, but it's not something you want to make a habit of.
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I actually agree with you; I just don't like the assumption that academic intelligence translates on the field.
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You guys need to watch more tape....Mack has been below AVG this season, he's not even close to "good"....he was much better last season....injury, new offense...whatever it is: on tape I see a below AVG C who struggles with basic stuff...he's absolutely of NO help to the youngster Gs...and I think it's because he's not a good fit at C in this particular system....he's overwhelmed right now
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is the Browns OL tipping off
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