|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 647
All Pro
|
OP
All Pro
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 647 |
I think, based on the lack of preparation and poor gameplanning, this may be the worst team to take the field since Bud Carson's second season. That year, the team went 3-13 and gave up 462 points--worst in the league and worst in team history. Even '99 and '00 were not as bad in terms of points allowed. The OL--Banker, Jefferson, Tamm, Robbins, Risien, Rackozy--was as bad as today's unit: Thomas, Mack, Cousins, Pashos, Lauvao, Greco.
In 1999 and 2000, the teams were also not good due to a lack of talent, but there was a sense of organization to a degree. And both teams had legit games in-division and split with Pitt. The defense is marginally better, but 26th vs. the run is just as bad as it was in 1999-2000.
I could see us going 3-13--(0-9 down the stretch and 0-6 in the division, for the 2nd time in 5 years like in 06). This season is even worse than '06, when we went 4-12, but were competitive in some games and upset three good teams--10-6 NYJ, 9-7 KC and 7-9 Atlanta--while losing a tight game to the Steelers at home and two tight games vs. 13-3 Baltimore.
Sunday was our watershed moment and we blew it. It reminds me of the 2004 game against the 7-0 Eagles. A win would have made us 4-4 at the time I think but we lost 34-31 in OT at home. To the Eagles. Then, we lose every game but the last one, a 22-14 snoozer over the Texans when it doesn't matter, and finish 4-12.
We can't even lose properly here to get Luck, because two other teams are ahead of us and probably will even be worse than 3-13.
Go Browns!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
 Good grief... Enough already.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
I would say that we are pretty bad as far as preparation, game planning, and discipline go ..... but the talent is much better than some of the other teams we have seen don the orange helmets over the years .....
I am curious to see how we play at the end of the season when we face Baltimore and Pittsburgh 4 times in 5 games. That could be UGLY .... all in caps.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
Quote:
answer to question: no.
Agree! 
#brownsgoodkarma
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
He's either from Manginiology or was on winter sleep during the start of the 2009 season
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753 |
So, you're suggesting we're going to give up 323+ points in the last 9 games?
Yes, Joe Thomas and Alex Mack completely suck. We should cut them, its not like anyone wants young, pro bowl players.
The defense is marginally better? Sure, maybe 26th against the run, but 6th in points, 5th in total defense, and 2nd in passing defense.
I also think it is pretty funny that so many people allude that bringing in Andrew Luck will make us a good team all of a sudden. The right side of the OL needs help, we need WR help, and we need RB help. An unproved commodity might help, might not - no guarantees.
The chicken little syndrome from this board is making me visit it less and less often. People need to understand that we lack depth, have many needs, we have yet another new scheme and more new coaches, no OC, etc... We're a below average team (but not the worst in 21 years), get over it or find a different team to root for.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
I would say the 1-11 start of the 2009 season was probably the worst Browns football I can remember.
This season has the very same feel.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
Quote:
I would say the 1-11 start of the 2009 season was probably the worst Browns football I can remember.
How anyone can think that this season is anywhere close to 2009 is absurd. As bad as McCoy is, he's actually better than Quinn and DA. We're 3-4 after seven games with a legit shot at winning at least one of those 4 losses.
And there are some YOUNG, good players on this team that we can add to.
More prisoner of the moment crap ...
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
I would say the 1-11 start of the 2009 season was probably the worst Browns football I can remember.
How anyone can think that this season is anywhere close to 2009 is absurd. As bad as McCoy is, he's actually better than Quinn and DA. We're 3-4 after seven games with a legit shot at winning at least one of those 4 losses.
And there are some YOUNG, good players on this team that we can add to.
More prisoner of the moment crap ...
We're 3-4 because of the talent level we've faced. We've beaten two winless teams and eeked out a 6-3 win against another terrible opponent that was the result of a blown call.
Our 3-4 record is a mirage, much like the 10-6 record of '07 - it's been built on inferior opposition.
I said this season has the same feel as the '09 campaign because to me it does -- our offense is completely flaccid. We dink and dunk down the field, and all it really takes to beat us is two proficient drives. I don't even really want to watch the games. It's become a chore to get through, much like it was for the majority of '09.
Also, there were some young, good players on the 2009 squad to add to, as well. Yet here are.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
And there are some YOUNG, good players on this team that we can add to.
You mean it's not good to suck and have Eric Barton (age 32), Jamal Lewis (30), Mike Furrey (30), Robert Royal (30), Steve Heiden (33), David Bowens (32), Robaire Smith (32), Kenyon Coleman (30), Shaun Rogers (30), John St. Clair (32), and Hank Poteat (32) playing significant roles on your team?
I'd much rather suck and have young players playing like we do this year. At least they can potentially develop into something better. All the guys I mentioned above were either at their peak or on the way down from their peak.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Also, there were some young, good players on the 2009 squad to add to, as well. Yet here are.
That's not true...we had 1 of the older rosters under Mangini and now have 1 of the youngest...that's fact...we also start WAY MORE young players...heck, we're starting more rookies (5) than 30+ starters...S.Brown, Fujita, Watson and Pashos and they're better than Royal, Barton, Poteat and StClair etc
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
You can't debate with Fanginies. They simply can't grasp the concept of this year being a year of evaluation as we attempt to find out who fits the two vastly different schemes we have implemented.
We have been competitive in 6 of our 7 games. I am actually pleased with that. Hell our O has been awful and we have been competitive in those 6 games. Just imagine what our D would be if they actually had the lead in a game.
The O fix is coming and it began today with releasing robo. Guys that don't fit are gonna be replaced simple as that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Also, there were some young, good players on the 2009 squad to add to, as well. Yet here are.
That's not true...we had 1 of the older rosters under Mangini and now have 1 of the youngest...that's fact...we also start WAY MORE young players...heck, we're starting more rookies (5) than 30+ starters...S.Brown, Fujita, Watson and Pashos and they're better than Royal, Barton, Poteat and StClair etc
Players on the 2009 Week 1 roster that, at the time, were perceived as good, young players:
Jerome Harrison
Lawrence Vickers
Braylon Edwards
Josh Cribbs
Joe Thomas
Ahtyba Rubin
Kamerion Wimbley
Eric Wright
Brandon McDonald
My point was that we had young talent we were optimistic about then, just as we do now.
We haven't made leaps and bounds from that '09 squad. We got younger, but getting younger doesn't mean much if the talent level hasn't improved considerably, and you're still dinking and dunking and only requiring teams to put up two touchdowns and a field goal or two to win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
We have been competitive in 6 of our 7 games. I am actually pleased with that. Hell our O has been awful and we have been competitive in those 6 games. Just imagine what our D would be if they actually had the lead in a game.
We saw glimpses of that in the Colts-game...this style of D is made for leads, going after an Offense forced to pass to make up....that's why I'm even more surprised and happy to see this D still play as good as it is...Jauron is really doing a fabulous job...our front 7 is really solid, consistent and disciplined...they only lack some more pass rush firepower....#2 CB and a ballhawk FS is what we need even more though....we lack game changing plays from our DBs (read: INTs)
My "need-list" right now looks like this:
1. QB
2. QB
3. QB
4. WR
5. FS
6. RT
7. outside CB
8. G/C
9. OLB
10. speed #3-#4 WR
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086 |
No . . . not yet. But the potential is there. Talent is better. Just wonder what performance and production level is needed to lose a spot at this point in the debacle. The tail end is going to be a meat grinder lookin looking at the last five games IMO; especially if the trend and injuries continue. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Not even close.. we are 3 and 4 right now,. that's better than the first two years of our return and better than the team that Bill Belichick got when he got here.
Short answer.. No
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Lord knows we suck this season.
But it's been worse, we've sucked on both sides of the ball, this season, only one.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 647
All Pro
|
|
OP
All Pro
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 647 |
Belichick was instantly competitive out of the gate in '91. The team was 4-4 at the halfway point but lost a lot of close games down the stretch and finished 6-10. They lost 7 games by a total of 12 points.
That was one of the best coaching jobs in Browns history--especially in the sense that he took 2-win talent and got an extra 4 wins out of them.
I think had the Browns not moved, they would have been in the Super Bowl in '96-97 or '97-98. After the '90 debacle with Uncle Bud (a similarly crappy team like this year's) Belichick had them in the playoffs in '94 and some struggle in the years in between. The defense was stellar during those years.
Go Browns!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Yeah, I know that.. I was talking about the team that Belichick inherited
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 647
All Pro
|
|
OP
All Pro
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 647 |
o ok. the Bud Carson team was as bad as this year's. ugh.
the guards were getting blown backwards almost right away.
Go Browns!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 434
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 434 |
Do we really need another sky is falling post. This is a going team with very few play makers. We had no off season to implement our new system. Hillis is hurt. Hardesty is proving he is Greg Oden in pads. But dang the negativity is getting old. We are 7 games into and new season give it time
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
Do we really need another sky is falling post. This is a going team with very few play makers. We had no off season to implement our new system. Hillis is hurt. Hardesty is proving he is Greg Oden in pads. But dang the negativity is getting old. We are 7 games into and new season give it time
We're 12 plus seasons into a new team, how much time did you have in mind?
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 434
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 434 |
I understand that but Shurmer and h&h wasn't here in 99. Shurmer got here this year had no ota's so we k.we going into season we where going to be behind the 8 ball.
But I don't see why we need to keep making thread after thread saying how bad we are.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Because we're bad and while Shurmur and H&H weren't here, we (the fans) were.
The clock doesn't simply reset with every new regime. It's time for this organization to be at the very least respectable, if not winners. We are neither, still, and that sucks for every fan who waited three years while the new stadium was built, who waited through the growing pains of a new team to be built. We've been waiting all along, it's been over twelve years, enough is enough. It's time for them to freakin' produce something other than this junk they keep serving us week after week.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825 |
Are you kidding me!? You guys did watch the '09 team, right? The QB play that year was 10x worse than what Colt has done this year. Without one player (see my screen-name), we would have only won 1 or 2 games, and the team would have been absolutely unwatchable. The first 12 games of the season tested my desire to remain a Browns fan more than any other. Luckily (or perhaps unluckily  ), I held on. At least this team this team has fought back and stayed in most of the games so far except Tennessee. Go look at the scores from '09. Minnesota Vikings L 34–20 at Denver Broncos L 27–6 at Baltimore Ravens L 34–3 Cincinnati Bengals L 23–20 OT at Buffalo Bills W 6–3 at Pittsburgh Steelers L 27–14 Green Bay Packers L 31–3 at Chicago Bears L 30–6 Baltimore Ravens L 16–0 at Detroit Lions L 38–37 at Cincinnati Bengals L 16–7 San Diego Chargers L 30–23 Pittsburgh Steelers W 13–6 at Kansas City Chiefs W 41–34 Oakland Raiders W 23–9 Jacksonville Jaguars W 23–17 Not too mention that team was significantly older with much less upside than the team we have now. This team can and WILL play better this year. Has the play and coaching been brutal to watch at times? Yes. But that is to be expected with a young team and new coaching staff with limited time to work together in the off-season. We're sitting at 3-4, albeit playing the weakest schedule through 7 games I can remember, with Hillis, the player we were counting on most to lead the offense, being a no-show for most of the season so far. The defense is also much better and younger this year (though the defense sacking Roethlisberger 6 times was great). I guess I'm just a glass half-full kind of guy.
Last edited by CribbsHero; 11/01/11 07:52 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
at Buffalo Bills W 6–3
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825 |
Yes, the game DA completed 2, read 'em, 2 freaking passes! And we won!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Biggest crapfest in the history of the NFL..and that was Mangini's 1st win....on a muffed BUF punt 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Did you miss the Seattle game?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
Palmer's geeks of 99 and 2000 was some of the worst football I've seen. this year is no different than the butch, romeo, or mangini regime. I'm pretty confident we will be 5-11 at years end. We will only beat st louis and jax at home. We've been 5-11 it seems like the past 10 yrs or so. We're in nfl purgatory.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
But I don't see why we need to keep making thread after thread saying how bad we are.
Because this forum exists to discuss Browns football, which at the moment is very bad?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Did you miss the Seattle game?
The Seattle game actually had offenses that SOMEWHAT moved the ball...
And a PR TD called back...
Cle/Buf from 09 was a Punters dream. (or nightmare?)
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Did you miss the Seattle game?
That DID qualify as a crapfest for sure but we lined up for 4 FGs and if not for a headbutt even 5....and we completed double digit passes, even with a Hobbit playing QB 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825 |
Quote:
Did you miss the Seattle game?
DA's stat-line for that game: 2 for 17 (11.8% is pretty good, right?) for 23 yards.
That game was a whole 'nother level of crap.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
If you're not taller than 6'1 can I call you a hobbit?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
Did you miss the Seattle game?
No kidding. Makes me wonder how many people who have called that game against Buffalo a "crapfest," or some variation thereof, said something along the lines of "hey, a win is a win" after the Seattle game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,580
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,580 |
I'll hazard a guess and say nobody said, "a win is a win" seriously after watching either game.
Debating which was worse is really silly. They were both terrible. Both offenses were nauseating to watch. If I had to choose one, I'd say this one was better only because of the upside due to the youth of the team, and not any measurable result from the games.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is this the worst team in 21
years?
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
