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I think Lombardi is an "alright" analyst, but if what he says is true something definitely needs to be changed. Quote:
2. Not since the 2002 Buccaneers has a team won the Super Bowl running the pure West Coast offensive exclusively. Seattle was a Super Bowl participant in 2006, but this long drought begs the question: Is the West Coast offense dead? Some teams, like the Saints, Eagles and Packers, run concepts of the West Coast, but they are not an exclusive West Coast team. The only team remaining that is exclusively West Coast is the Browns, and they might want to expand their package to include a more diversified system. The Browns need more playmakers and a better quarterback, but more importantly they need to add to their offense.
3. Writing about the Browns offense leads me to a game I play every week at NFL Films. I sit in my office in Mt Laurel, N.J., put the Browns offense on my screen and call a friend who was a coach in the league, but is now in between successes. I tell my friend the personnel group, the formation, where the ball is located on the field and what hash mark and describe the motion -- if there is any -- and ask him to tell me the exact play that will be run. He is correct about 95 percent of the time. No lie. The Browns are so integrated into the West Coast system that their predictability is becoming legendary around the league.
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It warms my heart to read stuff like this.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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So, when that one linebacker was saying that one of our linemen was giving away the plays, he really meant our head coach (who was a lineman) is giving away the plays. 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Well isn't that just lovely. 
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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that makes no sense honestly. the WCO is a progression offense where there are alot of plays with the same formation / motion that setup other plays (have a formation+motion that is always roll-right, then hit them with a TE to the weak-flat after running it a couple times)
something just doesn't sit right here.
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something just doesn't sit right here.
That would be Homgren & Shurmur. One is in over his head, the other doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Take your pick as to which is which.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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something just doesn't sit right here.
That would be Homgren & Shurmur. One is in over his head, the other doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Take your pick as to which is which.
That's a negative about both guys Cal,,, you may be right about Shurmur being one of those, but Holmgren? he's neither.
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call a friend who was a coach in the league, but is now in between successes. He is correct about 95 percent of the time. No lie. Well Geez!!! stop calling Holmgren, try someone else  But it is kinda scary thought 
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Quote:
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something just doesn't sit right here.
That would be Homgren & Shurmur. One is in over his head, the other doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Take your pick as to which is which.
That's a negative about both guys Cal,,, you may be right about Shurmur being one of those, but Holmgren? he's neither.
In your opinion.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
I think Lombardi is an "alright" analyst, but if what he says is true something definitely needs to be changed.
Quote:
2. Not since the 2002 Buccaneers has a team won the Super Bowl running the pure West Coast offensive exclusively. Seattle was a Super Bowl participant in 2006, but this long drought begs the question: Is the West Coast offense dead? Some teams, like the Saints, Eagles and Packers, run concepts of the West Coast, but they are not an exclusive West Coast team. The only team remaining that is exclusively West Coast is the Browns, and they might want to expand their package to include a more diversified system. The Browns need more playmakers and a better quarterback, but more importantly they need to add to their offense.
3. Writing about the Browns offense leads me to a game I play every week at NFL Films. I sit in my office in Mt Laurel, N.J., put the Browns offense on my screen and call a friend who was a coach in the league, but is now in between successes. I tell my friend the personnel group, the formation, where the ball is located on the field and what hash mark and describe the motion -- if there is any -- and ask him to tell me the exact play that will be run. He is correct about 95 percent of the time. No lie. The Browns are so integrated into the West Coast system that their predictability is becoming legendary around the league.
NFL.com
But it worked so well in the preseason 
Maybe we're just 'mastering' the West Coast Offense this year so we can install an offense that moves the ball next year. 
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Quote:
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something just doesn't sit right here.
That would be Homgren & Shurmur. One is in over his head, the other doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Take your pick as to which is which.
That's a negative about both guys Cal,,, you may be right about Shurmur being one of those, but Holmgren? he's neither.
In your opinion.
'
Well, yeah 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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First of all.. Why would he waste him time doing this every week?
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Quote:
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something just doesn't sit right here.
That would be Homgren & Shurmur. One is in over his head, the other doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Take your pick as to which is which.
That's a negative about both guys Cal,,, you may be right about Shurmur being one of those, but Holmgren? he's neither.
In your opinion.
'
Well, yeah
Setting aside my litany of reasons, I'll merely point to the fact that he did hire Shurmur. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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who, with a 3-4 record still is off to a better start than a multitude of other recent Browns HC hires.
I don't think he has done a great job by any means, our offense looks terrible, our STs are a joke, but it's awfully early in his tenure to completely give up on him.
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it's awfully early in his tenure to completely give up on him.
One would think. Except for the fact that it's so glaringly obvious.
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its interesting...theres a good chance you could do that with most teams in the league. If a play is run correctly you cant stop it regardless. Well...in the hopes its a well designed play that is.
What would be more impressive if this guy was able to pinpoint the break down in the play that kills the play. Then id be in.
We're running a very basic offense right now, and like it or not its how it works. You build into it, were working on adding things to the offense, in things that work. Its a slow process. It happens, at some point we're going to get it and we'll move the ball. I wonder the ceiling of our offense as it is currently run though. STL got to 7-9, where can we get to?
Will a new OC cure those ills? I feel like as long as Shurmur is calling the plays we'll see it look similar, and then add as time goes on. He's in his 3rd year calling plays, and first with a new team. I give him time to add to the offense to make it more efficient.
we are 3-4 and havent moved the ball well at all, if we start to sustain drives, get some YAC, run the ball a little better and stop shooting ourselves in the foot (burning the whole clip, reloading, and firing into the other to quote a fellow poster), we'll start to look like a much better offense.
When you dont know what you have in a team or in a group of guys, you run a system, see what works then build off of those successes. Im sure the Saints, Packers and every other team that runs a variation of the WCO started in a basic WCO and then built off of it based on their talents. This is a nothing article to me.
Execute and it doesnt matter if they know the play or not.
Build upon successes and it wont be a "pure" WCO any more.
Move the chains, dont make mistakes, and then win games...no big.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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i think it's only fair to give more time to shurmur. i'm sure he lacks a lot of pieces he'd like to have on offense.
that said, i really miss mangini. i can't help but think he'd do better this year and i know he'll be a great coach again. the cleveland media ran him out of town before he even got here.
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Quote:
I sit in my office in Mt Laurel, N.J., put the Browns offense on my screen and call a friend who was a coach in the league, but is now in between successes. I tell my friend the personnel group, the formation, where the ball is located on the field and what hash mark and describe the motion -- if there is any -- and ask him to tell me the exact play that will be run. He is correct about 95 percent of the time.
Lombardi has to analyze a lot of games for Inside the NFL each week. I find it hard to believe that this guy takes a couple hours every week to play this game. I realize he worked in the Browns FO prior to the move, but he has no connection to the team now....and to weekly analyze the Brown's offense would be excrutiating.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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it's awfully early in his tenure to completely give up on him.
One would think. Except for the fact that it's so glaringly obvious.
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who, with a 3-4 record still is off to a better start than a multitude of other recent Browns HC hires.
I don't think he has done a great job by any means, our offense looks terrible, our STs are a joke, but it's awfully early in his tenure to completely give up on him.
I agree... coming into this year our only legit offensive weapon was Hillis who has been hurt and a cancer this year it sounds like... part of that could go on Shurmur for not keeping a better locker room... but we didn't have many play makers on the offensive side....
with that said, his play calling this year has been questionable at BEST... I figured this year was a wash coming in... I expected about 5-6 wins... we'll see how close I get. I still think this is a young team that needs more talent... so i'm not ready to write him off right away, but I am thinking we need to bring in an offensive coordinator to take some of the pressure off Shurm.
<><
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Quote:
who, with a 3-4 record still is off to a better start than a multitude of other recent Browns HC hires.
I don't think he has done a great job by any means, our offense looks terrible, our STs are a joke, but it's awfully early in his tenure to completely give up on him.
We've beat 2 teams that are winless for the year, and a 3rd that the officials beat for us with an imaginary block in the back call.
We are scoring fewer points than we did last year when we played "Name that QB!". (16.9 last year vs 15.2 this year)
I'm not surprised that people say that can tell where the ball is going most of the time ..... in the passing game it's almost always going really short, and usually right. (except for the Raiders game when we seemed to make a concerted effort to throw to the left side) There's not a huge amount of mystery to the offense. We do something different with motion, like motioning Little into the backfield, and throw to him. Yeah, that'll catch the defense off guard. I bet that if someone really checked the tape, you could tell our run sets from our pass sets as well.
This is not a professional offense by any stretch of the imagination.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Lombardi is another NFL "analyst" who likes the sound of his own voice and is prone to making it up as he goes along. For instance, the "West Coast Offense" is more of a concept than an actual playbook. There are core plays that every variant of the WCO runs, but to say that teams like Green Bay, Philly and, to a lesser extent, New Orleans aren't "pure" WCO teams is misleading. They actually represent the evolution of the WCO and they are, most definitely, WCO teams. Perhaps he thinks the Browns are the only "pure" WCO offense right now because we only run plays that are commonly recognized as core WCO plays. His third point (that the Browns offense is predictable) is valid. However, he could have just said that without the BS story about his buddy calling our plays over the phone. Like he or his buddy have the time "play the game" he's describing EVERY week. Also, why would he bother doing so with an offense as putrid as the Browns? It's made-up BS and is typical of Lombari's reporting.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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Quote:
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something just doesn't sit right here.
That would be Homgren & Shurmur. One is in over his head, the other doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Take your pick as to which is which.
That's a negative about both guys Cal,,, you may be right about Shurmur being one of those, but Holmgren? he's neither.
In your opinion.
'
Well, yeah
Setting aside my litany of reasons, I'll merely point to the fact that he did hire Shurmur.
Rookie head coach, 8 games in and you are absolutly sure it was a mistake?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Further, last year, after 7 games, our opponents had a combined record of 32-17. This year out=r opponents so far have a combined record of 21-29.
Last year we had played one team with a losing record at this point in the season. (Cincinnati) This year it is 3.
Last year, through our 1st 7 games, we played teams who wound up (for the year) with defenses ranked 9, 11, 3, 24, 5, 1, and 7 in scoring defense. This year, so far, the defenses we have played are ranked 3, 32, 8, 22, 25, 17, and 1 in scoring defense. So last year, to this point, we had played 6 of 7 games against teams in the top 11 in scoring defense. This year ..... 3.
No matter how you look at it, we have regressed badly on offense. Every single indicator is negative. Every trend is downward.
We have scored exactly the same number of TDs this year through 7 games as last year through 7 games. (11) The breakdown is different, with last year going 6 pass, 5 rush and this year 9 pass and 2 rush.
Beyond all that, this offense does not pass the smell test. It stinks to high heaven. last year, by game 7, we were on our 3rd QB, and started rookie McCoy. McCoy has been the undisputed starter this year. We have had turnover at the RB position this year that we didn't have last year, but at this point last year we didn't have Evan Moore or Greg Little.
When we get around to playing good defenses, we are going to get destroyed. Sad, but true.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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last year, our offense stunk except for Hillis.
this year, Hillis has been injured.
any questions?
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Quote:
He is correct about 95 percent of the time. No lie. The Browns are so integrated into the West Coast system that their predictability is becoming legendary around the league.
So, he plays this game every week huh? What a loser.
The whole league knows about it to the degree that it's legendary. But neither Holmgren, Shurmur, Juron or anyone else on the coaching staff has any clue that they're so predictable. Wouldn't that pretty much set an all-time low for idiot coaching on one team at the same time?
No one is running a "pure" WCO. Everyone who runs it has their bits and parts of it and it's taylored to their own team and thinking.
Gimmie a break Lombardi. Your articles are more predictably ignorant than you claim our offense to be.
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I think I tackled this stuff before...you can't compare a new Offense to an Offense being run a 2nd year If you want to be fair you have to compare THIS Offense to the one 2009...but I guess that's not making your backdoor point, since the 2009 version was a lot worse to what Lombardi said: 1st year Offenses full of young players being predictable? Say what...
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Two choices if you want UNpredictability or if predictability is the problem: 1) The coach isn't using the wrinkles (example, Hardesty in the middle, first down call in every series in succession for the second half, most of which gained two yards). Or the lack of variety isn't a fooler for the D. Or, 2) the progressions do not get used or used ineffectively. Maybe pass is directed to a go-to guy, an override of the set. Hate to read this stuff. And a predominantly right-handed offense that passes there and seldom uses middle routes is too limited. How can Lombardi know and we do not? That percentage was astounding. Need an OC if that is this predictable IMO.
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something just doesn't sit right here.
That would be Homgren & Shurmur. One is in over his head, the other doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Take your pick as to which is which.
That's a negative about both guys Cal,,, you may be right about Shurmur being one of those, but Holmgren? he's neither.
In your opinion.
'
Well, yeah
Setting aside my litany of reasons, I'll merely point to the fact that he did hire Shurmur.
Rookie head coach, 8 games in and you are absolutly sure it was a mistake?
I'm as sure as I can be, more sure than I was before the hire, less sure than I would be if I could see into the future. Forget absolutely sure for a minute, are you even a little sure it wasn't a mistake?
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Not ready to throw him under a bus yet, but some growth, some success would be nice. Not sure I am seeing much of it. But I suspect he is working on MANY shortcomings and it shows.------- 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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In 2009 we had Quinn/Anderson at QB, Rookies Massaquoi and Robiske at WR, (and Edwards, to be fair) and a stiff without hands at TE. (Royal)
Hard to make a comparison to this year with that crew.
The talent on this year's team is overwhelmingly better than the talent on that year's team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
For instance, the "West Coast Offense" is more of a concept than an actual playbook. There are core plays that every variant of the WCO runs, but to say that teams like Green Bay, Philly and, to a lesser extent, New Orleans aren't "pure" WCO teams is misleading. They actually represent the evolution of the WCO and they are, most definitely, WCO teams. Perhaps he thinks the Browns are the only "pure" WCO offense right now because we only run plays that are commonly recognized as core WCO plays.
The other side of this story ... Thanks
Your statement saved me the trouble.
How many of the other teams mentioned are in their first year in this offense like us?
Absolutely none of them and each year they have added new wrinkles to the basic WC concept. (Not to mention established parts)
We on the other hand are still on the ABC's of installing this offense and that's the facts of the matter.
Rocket science it's not
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Quote:
last year, our offense stunk except for Hillis.
this year, Hillis has been injured.
any questions?
Oh no,, can't be that simple...LOL that doesn't put the blame on Colt..LOL 
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
3. Writing about the Browns offense leads me to a game I play every week at NFL Films. I sit in my office in Mt Laurel, N.J., put the Browns offense on my screen and call a friend who was a coach in the league, but is now in between successes. I tell my friend the personnel group, the formation, where the ball is located on the field and what hash mark and describe the motion -- if there is any -- and ask him to tell me the exact play that will be run. He is correct about 95 percent of the time. No lie. The Browns are so integrated into the West Coast system that their predictability is becoming legendary around the league.
Legit question here.. is there anybody who has watched all or most of the games this season that can't watch the game and do this very thing and be right about 75% of the time? I can and I'm not a football guru or even that much of an Xs and Os guy and I still bet I'm right almost 3/4 of the time.. Of course now he has issued a challenge and I might have to keep track a little closer this week.
yebat' Putin
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Great read....and lets us know what to expect until something or someone changes.
I really haven't been this down on a Browns team ever.
It's depressing. I have season tickets I don't want to use and don't really feel like heading to the local bar to watch every Sunday.
I do but am starting to leave early. Now it's the mid 4th qtr....the way we are going I'll be heading out at the half by seasons end.
Maybe I shouldn't take it as seriously as I do...that might be the message God is sending me.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
I think the problem lies in the fact we really have nothing to pin our hopes on from game to game. We have no obvious weapons and no one that is really making a difference. It's become a stale product and as a life long Browns fan I'm beginning to wonder why I invest the time, game after game, year after year.
If this year is a lost year because we're rebuilding (again), we are left with little to provide us inspiration to continue actively rooting for our team. Maybe it's time to just accept it for what it is, accept that we're waiting for next year (again) and come back at the dawn of a new season and see if it really springs eternal.
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 Likes: 516
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 Likes: 516 |
Quote:
Maybe I shouldn't take it as seriously as I do...that might be the message God is sending me.
And if you lived closer, I'd kick you in the ass.
Did you expect 10 and 6 this year?
We're seeing what we expected. I'm as bad as anyone, as I always want more/better........but it is what it is. Giving up is.............just that: giving up.
Went out deer hunting tonight. Just like I had monday, tues., wed, and thursday.
Haven't seen a deer since the first week of the season when a doe and her fawn walked right by me. I didn't shoot then thinking "it's too early in the deer season to break up a family".
Know what? I'll keep going out.
I'll also keep rooting for the Browns, and watching every game. We're headed off to some friends this Sunday to watch the game. They even said "air horn and shotgun allowed".
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 69
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 69 |
If any of you really believe he plays this game every week with some old coach I think you might be sliiightly retarded.
Now are we somewhat predictable...yes. He could have just said that.
Last edited by MFS04; 11/04/11 08:54 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133 Likes: 1050
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133 Likes: 1050 |
Quote:
They even said "air horn and shotgun allowed".
The way the Brown's offense has been playing, you could bring them to church. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074 Likes: 1119
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074 Likes: 1119 |
Quote:
The way the Brown's offense has been playing, you could bring them to church.
Dang, Dawg- that's harsh.
Funny as all get-out, but harsh, nonetheless....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mike Lombardi on our offense
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