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Nothing "stylish" about facing the fact that you can get a VERY capable RB in next years draft at a much cheaper investment.
It's all about business and common sense. If you draft outside the top 10 next year,what's the odds of getting a franchise LT or QB? Not good at ALL!
RB? Pretty damned good! So do you ignore that? Not if you're a successfull NFL GM you don't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Quote:
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I understand some want to look at it as a way to spin things...I am not doing that.
If Phil wants Peterson, he isn't going to pass the guy because he has Reuben friggen Droughns in the wings. 
If he wanted Peterson,he wouldn't have went out and signed a feature RB. Pretty simple really when you do the math.
He's too smart to spend a #3 pick on a kid who gets injurred every year in the NCAA. Phil didn't get to where he is by being less than smart and realistic.
You mean a feature back who got like 3.6 ypc and no big runs on a team with a better line than the Browns....one that we only signed to a one year contract.
This signing is nothing more than upgrading what Droughns would've been this season - the other back on our roster not named Adrian Peterson.
Plus if we don't draft Peterson it will be Quinn....and it would have nothing to do with this signing.
Do you think Lewis would sign with the Cleveland Browns if he wasn't told he'd be the feature back? It's Jamal Lewis not Rueben Droughns. He signed a 1 year deal cuase he wants to get paid...he didn't sign it to sit on the bench.
![[Linked Image from netanimations.net]](http://netanimations.net/Moving-picture-dog-with-a-bone-animated-gif.gif)
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Reuben Droughns is due a $1.75 million roster bonus on March 17. He also is due a $1.25 million base salary, which means he is a $3 million player if the Browns keep him. That might have been the figure that Lewis agreed to. He had a standing offer of between $1.5 million and $2 million on the table from the Ravens. So the Browns might be thinking that they are better off replacing Droughns, whom they have severely soured on, with Browns-killer Lewis for one year. That might not interfere with plans to take Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson with their first pick in the draft.
Posted March 08, by Ben Maller
http://www.benmaller.com/nfl_rumors_notes
if we keep droughns through the draft and cut him in say May, what does he count against the cap? Or what if we trade him in May, can we transfer the full cap hit?
Im just wondering because obviously keeping Droughs until the draft allows for a smoke screen if the Browns want AP, they can save alot of money by trading down one pick with Tampa.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/captainphil/browns bills sig 5.jpg) When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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Overall I'd have to say I'm pleased, who knows? I think Lewis may have something left in him for us. So now I guess that either Droughns is done for us or we're going to be using the two back system like so many other teams around the NFL have adopted.
And yes, Lewis is faster than RD people.
If we do let RD go, that may mean AP is coming to a stadium near you. Just think AP and Lewis in the same backfield, now that's a pair I'd be afriad of if I were the defense.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Nothing "stylish" about facing the fact that you can get a VERY capable RB in next years draft at a much cheaper investment.
It's all about business and common sense. If you draft outside the top 10 next year,what's the odds of getting a franchise LT or QB? Not good at ALL!
RB? Pretty damned good! So do you ignore that? Not if you're a successfull NFL GM you don't.
Drafting the Franchise LT or QB is definitely a possibility in late April.
But, I could definitely see Savage going BPA and picking Peterson. Who knows who is really atop Savage's draft board? Could it be Peterson? Sure, you could definitely make and argument that he's the most talented player in the draft.
Here's my personal opinion...(I know you didnt ask, but what the hell  )
I'd take Thomas because:
- we dont have a Franchise LT
- at pick 3 I could make the case for him being BPA
- fills two spots on the OL (RT/LT)
- a pick based on need and possibly the biggest need
I think a lot of these things factor into a top draft pick.
It's not as easy as; "if you dont have a franchise QB then you must draft one"...or any other NFL Draft cliche you or I can throw out there.
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How can u call a ONE YEAR RB a Featured Back???...
This has "Spell Me" written all over it...Whether it be Droughns or Peterson...
Savage saying he's a Featured Back gets blown outta the water with a lousy 1 year deal...
Truly.
If a guy is a feature back with a long-term future, you sign him to a long-term deal.
Furthermore, if other teams thought he was a long-term feature back, they would have made a push to get him. So what was Lewis offered by two teams? One-year deals worth marginal money for a "feature back."
Droughns and Lewis were short-term backs. Droughns was given a long-term deal because of the things he can do when not carrying the ball. Lewis doesn't bring that to the table. Neither guy is a long-term solution, resulting in a hole at the position. They could go into the year with both guys, but we'd still need a long-term answer. Is that Peterson this year? Is that a guy next year? Is that another free agent? It can be any number of things, none of which increase or decrease the likelihood of Peterson being taken.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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One more thing I wanted to add in here.
If Savage is going to let Droughns walk, he should go ahead and do it before the free agent dollars are gone. Granted, it's not as though Droughns is going to command big dollars and tons of interest on the market, but it's about openings, not money. Savage has proven to be a standup guy as a GM. I'd expect him to not leave his guy hanging out in the wind. That's what the Rats did with Edwin. They should have cut him sooner. I hope Savage doesn't make the same mistake.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
One more thing I wanted to add in here.
If Savage is going to let Droughns walk, he should go ahead and do it before the free agent dollars are gone. Granted, it's not as though Droughns is going to command big dollars and tons of interest on the market, but it's about openings, not money. Savage has proven to be a standup guy as a GM. I'd expect him to not leave his guy hanging out in the wind. That's what the Rats did with Edwin. They should have cut him sooner. I hope Savage doesn't make the same mistake.........
I agree 100%...I think Droughns future in Cleveland is being decided on, as I type (whether it be a trade or FA). The only way Droughns dangles is if Savage thinks he can trade him before March 15th.
I for one, dont see a big market for him...unless Shanahan wants him back as a FB.
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Not going to provide alink because the info comes from the
OBR pay area, but Lewis was just on a conference call with the Cleveland media and it was blogged live on the OBR.
He basically said that he was sold on Cleveland as soon as he walked through the doors and talked to the coaches.
Said they told him they were making a commitment to the run.
He liked the addition of Steinbach and he stated several times that there were more moves coming.
He never stated what those moves were, but I get the inkling that may mean they told him that they were leaning towards Joe Thomas if he's there.
I can't see any other move with this current line that would excite him
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Some of you have a one tracked mind that won't be derailed untill late April.
But I plan to be here to see the train wreck.
You're one to talk. 
We're... we're good?
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I don't think Savage can operate under the assumption that he'll just wait on a RB because next year's class is stacked with (solid IMO) RBs. Too many variables btw now and then. I believe it's become the "stylish" post on the various message boards I frequent - "We can wait until next year to get a back"...with the uncertainty surrounding this Coaching staff and Front Office...I don't know if next year is being discussed at all...
This just comes back to how much can you fix in one year and how bad someone feels we are at RB. Based on need and this draft, I guess I've been assuming Phil's target is to fix the OL an DL as those "two or three areas".
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- I think, mentioning what is at the top of next years draft is relevant. If we pass on Peterson and have a decent season we wont be in a position to draft someone of his talent...if you need/want it and can get it now...DO IT!...I don't know if that's what Savage will do, but it's no secret the running game was terrible last year and he's is trying to address it...
I'm also getting a read here that you put more of the blame on our ability to run on the RB than on the OL. Both were bad, but I put it more on the OL.
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- IMO, Peterson's injuries are a bit overblown. I don't consider Peterson more of an injury risk than I do Joe Thomas.
We just see this differently.
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I hope that helps clear up where I'm coming from.
Definitely, but I think we're just a little different in the "risk aversion" category or just view Peterson's risk level a little differently. We're in one of the most physical divisions in the NFL. Any sign of injury problems just worries me.
Iif Phil shares the view that his injuries are over-blown, Peterson may well be wearing Brown next year. I'll cringe every time he gets hit for a while, but other than that I'd love to have the guy.
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As a side note: I know people have stated in this thread that picking up Lewis is a clear sign that Peterson is out of the question....I see it entirely differently...
If I'm Savage and I'm thinking about drafting Peterson - I have a capable guy in the stable who can split carries with the young man (sorry, that's not Droughns). New England, Dallas and Indianapolis have successfully utilized a Rookie and a Vet ground attack, IMO that's what we're shooting for...
I agree in that I believe the acquisition of Lewis will have no impact on our draft. Just trading one player for another who's a little better for the same or similar money.
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I'll say thanks for passing along the info, but for another few hundre-thousand bucks, he'd be talking at how he always knew he'd be a Raven, hehehe.
The "more moves coming" are probably more about bringing in a free agent guard like McKinney or Mahan. They wouldn't tell Lewis about Joe Thomas. You never trust a player to keep their mouths shut.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I agree Toad. Keeping Droughns on the roster isn;t just not making the best use of the spot, but unfair to him when he can legitimately hook one with someone else. Green Bay for example.
I don;t see how we can possibly keep him. There simply will not be enough carries to go around between him and Jamal. I'd rather see one of the two (which will obviously be Jamal) and trying to work in Harrison as a change of pace back.
I also don;t see how Peterson is AT ALL an option for us anymore with Lewis' signing. There is no way we draft a guy at #3 and make him a backup. Even Bralyon was starting midway through his rookie year. And a large part of that delay was due to his hold out.
In my mind, its officially down to two-- Quinn or Thomas.
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FYI...
Droughns Roster Bonus is due the 17th...
Go Browns!!!
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danglet, Quote:
I'm also getting a read here that you put more of the blame on our ability to run on the RB than on the OL. Both were bad, but I put it more on the OL.
Yeah, I think Droughns left a ton of yards on the field last season. I know I ruffled feathers in the Fall on this board about it...it might have been that I was expecting too much from him?
Either way, I think the OL was an average run blocking group and a below average pass blocking group.
I went into this off-season thinking we need to upgrade the run blocking and the runner.
I think we just have a slightly different take on some things, which is what this time of year is all about.
I think we can agree to a disagreement, and we didn't have to call each other names...UNBELIEVABLE!
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Quote:
Quote:
Some of you have a one tracked mind that won't be derailed untill late April.
But I plan to be here to see the train wreck.
You're one to talk.
OK. We'll both be here. How's that?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Really???? Did not know that Mmmmm Let me think .....OK Trade him 
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Anyone know how many yards Lewis ran on us in his rookie 2000 season? I can't find it anywhere. According to my calculations, without 2000 factored in, he owes us 1268 yards. I expect this payment to be paid in one season.
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By the way Lewis is ranked as a 64 which is: Quote:
60-69: Average Starter
A valuable roster player but not a dominant player against the better players he faces on a weekly basis. ... Gives great effort and teams are glad to have him, but he may or may not go to the next level.
That was for Anyone wondering for all of FA and their ratings here they are:
Steinbach: 81
Lewis: 64
Wright: 58
Peek: 57
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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Quote:
By the way Lewis is ranked as a 64 which is:
Quote:
60-69: Average Starter
A valuable roster player but not a dominant player against the better players he faces on a weekly basis. ... Gives great effort and teams are glad to have him, but he may or may not go to the next level.
That was for Anyone wondering for all of FA and their ratings here they are:
Steinbach: 81
Lewis: 64
Wright: 58
Peek: 57
As recently as last year Lewis was ranked an 82 and in the top 7 RBs in the NFL by the same service.
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Amazing what coming to the Browns will do to your public opinion huh?
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Same thing happened to Bentley when he signed with us. Went from mid-80s down to a 79. And that was before the injury.
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I look at it like this... it is a 1 year deal. If J.Lewis is lights out, PS will get a new deal worked out. If there is NO GAS left in the tank... then, Lewis will walk after the season is over and the Browns are no worse off.
As for RD. I could see Phil trying to shop RD. He is under contract. He is servicable. Try to gain a second day pick before his RB is due?
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Can't shop Droughns. They'll either keep him or cut him as money doesn't play a role in this. Teams will view him as a guy that is either a Brown or a free agent, not available through trade. He simply doesn't have that kind of value right now with his current contract, especially with Lewis on onboard.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'm really waiting to see what the Browns do with Reuben. If they cut him, we're right back down to "Okay, so who are the Browns going to draft?", but if they keep him, it really narrows things down a bit IMHO.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Kind of off topic, but I was wondering if anyone knew if there was a way to put those audio clips of interviews on to a CD or something. I might want to listen to them in the car sometime or something like that.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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The Lewis signing is a just like a boom or bust pick in the draft. Savage is gambling that Lewis can return to elite form or at least above average. In my opinion this is a low risk, high reward signing. JL goes out and runs wild next year its a boom and we sign the guy to finish his career here and become our version of Jerome Bettis and Savage looks like he found the bargain of the FA class of 07. Or bust and he doesn't do much of anything. What is it going to hurt though, he auditions one year for us and either proves he is worth resigning for real money or he doesn't and we don't lost that much in the end. Very safe signing Phil, good job.
All of you Peterson pimps dont have to worry either. Had he signed for 4-5 years then yes but all this signals is that Savage is trying to improve our talent pool not that he is leaning one way or another in the draft. He has said time and again that he drafts value over need. If he thinks Peterson is the highest rated player then there is a 95% chance we take AP. Honestly, I dont care who we draft (as long as its not Ted Gin or some other of the wall value) because in the end were going to be a better team. Unlike good teams I don't believe we have the luxury to draft need. Until we have close to or equal talent with the NFL's elite, we can't worry about needs. Dare I mention the name Calvin Johnson on here.
As for the character concerns, The guy has paid his debt to society and has moved on. Who are we to judge him. Honestly, I could care less if Adolph Hitler was our QB if he won us Super Bowls. I'm tired of "low character" teams beating the @#$% out of us and winning super bowls. Call me selfish but I root for the Cleveland Browns (the team) not the individual players, and at the end of my life I want to see a super bowl parade going through Cleveland, who is sitting on the floats in the parade is irrelivent to me. JUST WIN
U
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Quote:
Either way, I think the OL was an average run blocking group and a below average pass blocking group.
I think the OL was way below average at both.
Think about this. Every time this team was faced w/a 3rd or 4th and one or two yds. to go, they either:
---punted
---tried a trick running play
---passed the ball
---or were stuffed for a loss or no gain.
This OL got zero push when they needed to. They were absolutely dreadful at run blocking and not even close to average.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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As for the character concerns, The guy has paid his debt to society and has moved on. Who are we to judge him. Honestly, I could care less if Adolph Hitler was our QB if he won us Super Bowls. I'm tired of "low character" teams beating the @#$% out of us and winning super bowls. Call me selfish but I root for the Cleveland Browns (the team) not the individual players, and at the end of my life I want to see a super bowl parade going through Cleveland, who is sitting on the floats in the parade is irrelivent to me. JUST WIN
I get what you're saying but woooooo, I got a hunch you might get beat up a bit on that one.
The problem with "character concerns" i think is three fold. First of, there's the question of if the leopard can change its spots. If they've had such a significant lapse once, will they do it again?
Secondly, you have to wonder how seriously this person might take football. Do they love the game or do they just love how much they get paid to play it? People like Pac-Man Jones... he's all about the celebrity. Other guys want to play the game just to play. Granted, these guys want to get paid but the fact is that they value their career and aren;t about to do something stupid to jeopardize it.
Finally, where do you draw the line? Is a DUI ok? How about slapping your wife? Drug dealing? Assault? Murder? At what point do we say, ok, we're not taking that guy...he's a criminal. Its really hard to say... Steinbach, for example... Most people won't slag on him for getting a DUI in a boat. Jamal, on the other hand, a few more people concerned about the drug history. Would people want Chris Henry, Mr. Get Teenage Chix hammered, gun puller, weed smoker?
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I don't think Lewis has a "drug history" per se. He set up two people he knew. One with another. Thats it. He never used the drugs handled the drugs, saw the drugs, saw a profit. Nothing.
He simply hooked up an old friend with someone else that had some stuff to sell. He made a call that's it.
That's one offense---and hardly can be construed as a drug history.
More like an anomaly in his otherwise clean slate. He's never been arrested for using, possessing, selling drugs.
He was arrested for simply giving the phone number of a drug dealer to an old friend ogf his that happened ot sell drugs.
One mistake--that does not constitute a drug history to me.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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All that shows is that he was caught once.
All it shows is that he continued to associate with criminal elements and knew them well enough to "hook someone up".
All it shows is that he was found guilty by a jury of his peers.
I'm jsut playing devil's advocate here. I don;t necessarily believe that Jamal is a drug fiend, a criminal or an otherwise unpleasant guy. But the fact is, it is a factor that has to be considered and jsut because the guy is now wearign our colours, doesn;t mean it should be ignored.
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I also don;t see how Peterson is AT ALL an option for us anymore with Lewis' signing. There is no way we draft a guy at #3 and make him a backup.
Why would he have to be a back-up?
Bush and McCallister, was Bush McCallister's Back-up?
McCallister was/is a pro-bowl RB, yet New Orleams took Bush anyway, with the 2nd pick of the draft.
Now before everyone jumps on me, I am not comparing Bush with Peterson , they have two TOTALLY different running styles. That being said, there is NO reason that we couldn't pair Peterson and Lewis in our backfield. Picture Willie Parker and Bettis during thier 2005 Superbowl run, only with Peterson being MUCH better than Willie (I beilieve that Peterson has the speed of Willie, but with better power). Buy the 4th qtr. opposing teams defenses would be gasping for air, (see our defense last year  ).
A side effect of this would be protecting Charlie (or Anderson) from having to make the big play (ie: Big Ben, his rookie year). Am I leaning this towards the Browns drafting Peterson....yes, because I still want Peterson.
(I know, I am hard headed  ).
All that being said, IF we keep Droughns, I don't see us taking Peterson. 
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Different situation... Bush was used as a multidimensional threat. Droughns is not.
Can you imagine splitting Rueben wide? Gad....
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READ MY POST!!!
I am Talking about Peterson, NOT Droughns.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
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I think he means Peterson & Lewis comparison to McCallister & Bush, NOT Droughns.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Thanks Roc , And I hope he reads that I understand that Peterson and Bush are two different styles of backs. I still think that would wear down a defense.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089 |
Yep..sorry. Was typing quicker than I was thinking.
You're right...it would wear down a defence. But I still don;t know how I'd feel about our high first rounder only get 10-15 carries a game....
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602 |
I understand where you are coming from, I guess I also just want Peterson bad enough that I am trying to justify it. But I also don't hink that I am too far off base either. And remeber, it's ONLY a one year contract, gives us time to aclimate Peterson to the NFL, like New Orleans did with Bush, he got more carries as the season went on.
Last edited by ncdawg; 03/08/07 06:50 PM.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14 |
Like I said, im selfish. I can't control what the players do. At the end of the day, as unpopular as this might be. If Chris Henry was a key contributor to us winning the super bowl I wouldn't care if he was a thug. Winning is the only thing that will make me happy. Being the team with the best sportsmanship and best character is great and is definitely ideal but just speaking honestly I want to win a super bowl and how we do it doesn't matter to me.
As for what Lewis has done in the past, I definitely agree it was not good but there are many things i have done wrong too. Whether he has turned a new leaf or hasn't gotten caught again yet is not something you or i know (only God) but i do believe he deserves a chance.
Maybe the Hitler anolgy was a little carried away though. Anyway you look at it though there are 4 ways a team can result.
1.good character and a good team.
2.bad character and a good team.
3.good character and a bad team.
4.bad character and a bad team.
1 is definitely what I want, but if you give me the choice b/t being good guys and a bad team or being bad guys and a super bowl winner. Im sorry, call me immoral but im going to take the super bowl team with bad guys every day of the week. I'd rather be like the Indianapolis Colts and win the right way but if not I can live with being the 90's Dallas Cowboys.
What our players do is beyond my control, but im going to root for them as long as they wear orange and brown. I just want 1 winner, just one....then we can suck for the rest of my life. But I've never seen the Cleveland Browns holding up the Lombardi trophy and neither have you, and until i do im all for doing whatever it takes to win.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 305
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 305 |
Quote:
Quote:
Either way, I think the OL was an average run blocking group and a below average pass blocking group.
I think the OL was way below average at both.
Think about this. Every time this team was faced w/a 3rd or 4th and one or two yds. to go, they either:
---punted
---tried a trick running play
---passed the ball
---or were stuffed for a loss or no gain.
This OL got zero push when they needed to. They were absolutely dreadful at run blocking and not even close to average.
I dont know if they were THAT bad...but I think we can both agree the OL wasnt where it should be.
Overall, I'd grade them a D. Take away Schaffer and Fraley (who were both C- players) and they get a big fat F.
There's no need to argue about it, we'd just be arguing over which is better - a turd burger or a poo sandwich.
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Go Browns
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