|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
I understand that in order to implement the offense that Shurmur wants to run, that McCoy needs to be able to run the offense from under center.
But what I don't get is that if a team is blitzing on every play in man coverage, and your QB is comfortable operating out of the shotgun, then why would you not run shotgun and make the defense pay? You're mentioning it being perfectly fine for Brady and Manning to take shotgun snaps out of first and second down, but McCoy needs to take a seven step drop when they're blitzing and our 4th string RB can't pick up the blitz?
To me, there's a difference between trying to implement your offense and grow your team and just plain being stubborn. If your QB is getting hit play after play, and you know they're blitzing again, why not call a play that takes advantage of that?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,135 Likes: 223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,135 Likes: 223 |
Quote:
Only the RB's are at the bottom of the depth chart. Little is a rookie. The rest are vets.
First of all, I am seeing your point. I think Colt should get more weapons/protection and time (another season) to see if he can be the guy...but I appreciate your take here. (Hence why I made the mortal error of inviting you back  )
However to the quote above:
Little is a rook, Norwood is a rook, Cribbs is...well...we all know what he is as a WR, MoMass did not particpate in TC and has precious little time in this system, Robo is a Jag.
I am not saying this compliments or refutes your point in the previous post...however...with this comment/quote you seem to - again - downplay the WR situation as a component of the need to dummy-down the offense.
What do you think about Pashos as a RG? (Posted here because you did not respond elsewhere.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,963 Likes: 769
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,963 Likes: 769 |
I think that - unfortunately - that this entire season has to be written off as a sort of extended training camp for us.
I have to believe that the front office knows that we don't have even half of what we need to run an offense and we're just going through the motions as best we can given what we have to work with.
I have to believe that because looking at it any other way is just far too depressing.
The coming offseason will tell us everything we need to know about the competency of this regime.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,135 Likes: 223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,135 Likes: 223 |
That right there is my concern with Shurmur and his inexperience.
I personally am very-much a "principal-of-the-matter" type guy. But not to the point of my own detriment.
He should be - and actually may be - doing whatever he can to get this O some opportunity to succeed...if that means more shotgun for now...then so be it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136 |
I tend to agree with that Purp.
I'm of the opinion that if going into the season, you thought we were not going to be good enough to win more than 5 games, then I don't understand the problems if we only win 5 games.
To have that belief, one had to have known that problems and holes existed. At least part of that belief had to stem from New HC, New Offensive system, darn near a rookie at QB, One running back coming back from a serious injury, another running back that you knew would get worn out if they used him like last season...
I think they felt this was a lost season from the beginning..But they couldn't say that in the press, they can't say that in the locker room either. But Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur had to know what they were up against.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,647 Likes: 5
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,647 Likes: 5 |
It's like in Roadhouse when Dalton says of the Double Deuce, "It will get worse before it gets better."
I seriously feel like the people in charge knew that. They didn't know that our top two RBs would get hurt, but this was going to be a year to evaluate guys in this system and then make adjustments accordingly on the fly and during the off season.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
1. I love the roadhouse reference.
2. The one area that we actually did improve on was RB. We had Hardesty coming off the injury and expected to produce. We signed Brandon Jackson who didn't even make it through the pre-season, and they did kinda have that guy who made the cover of Madden.
I fault the Browns for a lot, I can't fault them for the RB situation going in.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
I'm of the opinion that if going into the season, you thought we were not going to be good enough to win more than 5 games, then I don't understand the problems if we only win 5 games.
Because the problem isn't the record. Our record, given the abysmal play of our offense, is right about where it should be. Possibly a tad on the high side, even.
The issue is looking completely incompetent on gameday.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,098 Likes: 294
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,098 Likes: 294 |
Quote:
The issue is looking completely incompetent on gameday.
Isn't that the truth...I didn't expect more than a 6, 7,,maybe an 8 win season... So we would all be happier if we lost looking good... That sure is hard to handle...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
If that is true, that worries me. You should play to the strenght of your players, not try to bang a square peg into a round hole 
That's been Shurmur's M.O. since arrival.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
j/c Here's the thing... I try to keep my optimism to the lowest of lows... I looked at our schedule, and thought, If we're even average this year, and every other teams stays in the same general area... We could hit 8-8 easy, and who knows, maybe do it 07 style and ride the "easy" schedule to a 10 win season... After week one, the way we lost, almost confirmed to myself, that it wasn't going to be THAT bad, I mean it couldn't get worse than losing a game THAT way... right? then we were 2-1... 2-1! We actually had more wins than losses!  I once again looked at the lay of the land, and our upcoming schedule, and was somewhat optimistic... Allow me to quote my own post... Quote:
If we're even average this year
For everyone that says "Well what did you expect"
I EXPECTED US TO LOOK LIKE A PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM.
Is that SO much to ask?
Even when the Dolphins went 1-15, and the Lions went 0-16... they at least COMPETED, and while it sucked, they actually looked like they belonged in the NFL...
We currently do not...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm of the opinion that if going into the season, you thought we were not going to be good enough to win more than 5 games, then I don't understand the problems if we only win 5 games.
Because the problem isn't the record. Our record, given the abysmal play of our offense, is right about where it should be. Possibly a tad on the high side, even.
The issue is looking completely incompetent on gameday.
you missed my point. If you felt the team would be lucky to win 5 games, there was a reason you felt that way. Had to be.
I'm sure the reasons had to include the things that are making us look incompetetent. So to act surprised seems a little silly.
Now, if you thought that they would be a 500 club (I know it's still possible but...) Then maybe the problem isn't the team, but your expectations being too high.
Just saying
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
You can win only 5 games and still be at least competant...
Detroit didn't win a single game and I think that team would beat the 2011 Browns...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
Detroit didn't win a single game and I think that team would beat the 2011 Browns...
So one crappy team could beat another crappy team? You could say that about any two teams.
"Team A" would never beat "Team B".
If given just their records would you say the 2010 5-11 Browns could beat the 2010 14-2 New England Patriots? You would say no, but we did beat them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
My point was to point out, that just because someone expected say, 5 wins, and we only get, say... 5 wins... That doesn't mean their expectations have been met...
I expected to win between 5-8 games, but at least be COMPETITIVE in the losses...
And not just being competitive...
Actually being COMPETANT.
Which we are not.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
We currently have five losses. Wouldn't you say that we have been competent in three of those five losses.
The Bengals game we should have won. And probably would have won if it wasn't for a fluke play.
Against the Raiders we had the ball in the fourth quarter with a chance to tie the game.
And against the 49ers we were down only a touchdown until the final minutes of the game.
We did look horrible in the Titans and Texans games. But that should be expected when you are a young team (especially when facing the Texans, who look to be one of the stronger teams in the league).
Are you sure you just aren't talking about the Texan game?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
I at no point thought we even had a chance in the 9ers game, once we got close, SF turned it back on, drove right down the field and scored... The Raider game shows how INcompetant we've been this season, remember when Special Teams was one of our STRENGTHS? I'm not saying we've been completely horrible all season, but in Browns fashion, as soon as things look somewhat ok... Holding. False Start. Dropped Pass. Sack. Fumble. Interception. Throw a pass for NEGATIVE EIGHT YARDS.. when you only need TWO... Things like that keep piling up. There was talk last year, that had we lost to NE and NO, but beaten Buffalo and Cincy late (and not been destoryed by Pitt obviously) that our season wouldn't have been such a huge dropoff towards the end... I'm ganna wrap this up before i start rambling  This team has no identity, no direction, and until we get that, what exactly are we building to?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
This team has no identity
Even if it isn't working, wouldn't you say we have an identity as a team that runs the West Coast offense?
Quote:
no direction
Wouldn't you say our direction is a team that is young and talented? (Maybe raw is a better word than talented)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Wouldn't you say that we have been competent in three of those five losses.
No.
Quote:
The Bengals game we should have won. And probably would have won if it wasn't for a fluke play.
By fluke play, you mean the one where our defense didn't line up?
That's actually the exact opposite of competence.
Quote:
Against the Raiders we had the ball in the fourth quarter with a chance to tie the game.
Again, two special teams touchdowns doesn't exactly scream 'competent'. Neither does getting gashed for 150 yards.
Quote:
And against the 49ers we were down only a touchdown until the final minutes of the game.
Gave the opponent the ball in the red zone on the second offense play. Gave up over 170 yards rushing. We also fumbled the ball FIVE times.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
And despite that we were still within striking distance in the 4th quarter.
An example of an incompetent team would be the Indianapolis Colts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
I don't even know what kind of WCO we're trying to run, GB and Philly are the two teams I reference when it comes to the WCO, and even ignoring their superior talent levels, the play calling is completely different...
We're young, yes, Talented in spots (Thomas, Watson, Haden, Rubin, and Dawson are all that REALLY come to mind)
But when it comes to getting more talent? I don't even know if Heckert has a plan. Trading for a 4-3 DE while we're running a 3-4, Locking up a guy like Gocong for who knows what reason...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
And despite that we were still within striking distance in the 4th quarter.
That doesn't mean we looked competent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
Talented in spots (Thomas, Watson, Haden, Rubin, and Dawson are all that REALLY come to mind)
...Taylor, Sheard, Mack, Moore, Ward. Even Little is talented, he just doesn't know what the heck he is doing.
Quote:
GB and Philly are the two teams I reference when it comes to the WCO, and even ignoring their superior talent levels, the play calling is completely different...
Philadelphia has adjusted what they do because of the talents of Michael Vick.
Quote:
But when it comes to getting more talent? I don't even know if Heckert has a plan. Trading for a 4-3 DE while we're running a 3-4, Locking up a guy like Gocong for who knows what reason...
It seems as though Heckert was looking to acquire what he thought was a good pass rusher. Now that we are running a 4-3 it seems as though his plan is more clear.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm of the opinion that if going into the season, you thought we were not going to be good enough to win more than 5 games, then I don't understand the problems if we only win 5 games.
Because the problem isn't the record. Our record, given the abysmal play of our offense, is right about where it should be. Possibly a tad on the high side, even.
The issue is looking completely incompetent on gameday.
you missed my point. If you felt the team would be lucky to win 5 games, there was a reason you felt that way. Had to be.
I'm sure the reasons had to include the things that are making us look incompetetent. So to act surprised seems a little silly.
Now, if you thought that they would be a 500 club (I know it's still possible but...) Then maybe the problem isn't the team, but your expectations being too high.
Just saying
I'm not missing any point. I'm making a distinction between having a good record and playing well. Teams play well and lose, and teams play poorly and win. It happens. Frequently, in fact. My opinion of this team at this point, and at the conclusion of the season, will have far less to do with our final record than it will with how the team played.
If you read the thread in K9 Consensus about pre-season win predictions, you'll see that I said I thought we would win 4 games. My reasons included the usual suspects: shortened pre-season, new coach, etc, as well as three games out west in a span of four weeks (games that a lot of people thought we'd win at least two of three).
What I didn't expect to contribute to our losses are things like countless false starts, personal fouls (on the offense, #66, 15 yard penalty, repeat 2nd down), 12 men on the field. "Quick snap." A complete inability to stop teams from running all over us (backs with 10+ carries are virtually guaranteed to average 4.3-4.5 yards per carry against us). Special teams meltdowns. No passing game to speak of.
I did not expect this team to lack wideouts that looked like they could run a route and get open. I did not expect our offensive linemen to forget how to block. I did not expect our quarterback, who looked fairly decent last season, to look painfully regressed, for whatever reason it may be. Our current crop of healthy running backs get a pass because either one would be fortunate to be on a practice squad. Beyond that, with very few exceptions, every unit of this team is playing below the level I thought they'd be capable of playing at.
So no, regardless of meeting expectations on what our final record will be (which I unfortunately seem to be just about right on the money with), the team has failed to meet my expectations as to their caliber of play on the field this year. I don't think being upset with how inept this team looks week in and week out is inappropriate or out of line.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Hence why I made the mortal error of inviting you back
 Mortal error indeed.
Quote:
Little is a rook, Norwood is a rook, Cribbs is...well...we all know what he is as a WR, MoMass did not particpate in TC and has precious little time in this system, Robo is a Jag.
I am not saying this compliments or refutes your point in the previous post...however...with this comment/quote you seem to - again - downplay the WR situation as a component of the need to dummy-down the offense.
Well, I think I see more out of this receiver group than you do, but they do deserve some blame.
Hell, let me cut right to the chase on that one: When your offense is this stinkin' bad (29th against a pretty cup-cake schedule), there's blame on everyone. Teams that rank this low aren't getting good play from their QB's. Fact. Teams that rank this low aren't getting good play from their offensive lines. Fact. Teams that rank this low aren't getting consistent play from their skill people. Fact. I'd hope people would realize that before placing blame on any one person.
Changing directions here, going back to one of the golden rules of the game, QB's make receivers, not the other way around. This then clearly means they are more dependent upon the QB and the line than the other way around. I think more of this group than you do, because a basic route is a basic route, and because when I've rewatched these games I've seen guys coming open, and I've seen McCoy pull it down after his first read and take off. Some of that skittishness is warranted. Some of it is not. Bottom line is QB's can't play scared, and McCoy is playing scared right now.
Quote:
What do you think about Pashos as a RG? (Posted here because you did not respond elsewhere.)
Hell man, I'm sorry if I missed a question somewhere. I always try to respond to you. 
Pashos looks like he's ready to ride off into the sunset, which is tough to say when the guy is 31. He looks old, frail, and slow. Hard to say exactly why, but he just can't make the reach-block anymore, and that's an integral part of the WCO. A guard? Sure, why not. Only problem is that injury history. Heckert decided it was fine to throw the dice on a 31-year old tackle who started 4 games in the last two seasons. There has GOT to be a logical reason somewhere for such a bone-headed gamble. I have my opinions, but some don't wanna hear it, hehe. I don't think you can rely on him to be anything more than a backup because you just can't say with any degree of certainty that you'll be able to march him out there week after week.
Since I'm ranting on the line now.......Just a few years ago we had a pretty solid line. Now we have two good parts and three lousy ones. Ugh. I hope some of the former head coaches and executives can come off the books before the 2012 free agency season begins.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
Colt Mccoy after 16 games? He's Battled. He Battles, He is battling, It is a process.  
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89 |
Quote:
Quote:
And despite that we were still within striking distance in the 4th quarter.
That doesn't mean we looked competent.
Exactly. If we had been competent in those games we may have won one or two of them.
Through sheer incompetenance we put ourselves in huge holes early against Oakland and SF. The fact that, before the end of the game, we managed to crawl to within a score of them does not necessarily mean it was a close game.
And that play against Cincy? Sheer stupidity. Not only was the entire defense caught sleeping, but no one on the entire coaching staff noticed what was happening either.
I am not at the point where I give up on the Browns. For me, that point does not exist. But I am truly saddened by the state of the team. We do not look like an NFL team.
I have no faith in our coach. I have no faith that our QB is the one to even lead us to mediocrity. Last year I was excited about our RB, but no more. Right now he actually reminds me of Derek Anderson. Kind of came out nowhere and had an amazing season, though tailed off quite a bit at the end. A lot of entusiasm for the next season, but that was a complete bust.
Sigh.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136 |
Quote:
You can win only 5 games and still be at least competant...
Detroit didn't win a single game and I think that team would beat the 2011 Browns...
True enough to a point. The fact remains that most of us didn't expect much so we are pretty much getting what was expected.
As for getting beat by Detroit.. Trying to defend a position or thought with unprovable comments like that always crack me up.
Besides, we are actually on the same side of this discussion.. We both think the browns O is incompetent.
But yeah, let's chuck it all and start all over again,,, and again,,,, and again.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111 |
Quote:
And despite that we were still within striking distance in the 4th quarter.
Not to butt into your back and forth with Phil, but... 
In those games, if we played competent football, we are protecting 10 point leads instead of trying to come back from 50 minutes of dumbassery.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,963 Likes: 769
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,963 Likes: 769 |
j/c....
To clarify what I was saying - We ARE HORRIBLE... but I think that we knew we'd be bad. Maybe not THIS bad, but I think they had to know we'd be sucking terribly.
New Offense, missing 60% of the OLine from last season, no WR's that have a clue and a "rookie" QB... and that was before we were hit by injuries everywhere at RB, before Robo failed to progress making a dismal WR corps even worse and even more injuries to the OL.
Don't get me started on the defense, either... we are NOT a good defense. You can take your stats that say we are Top 10 and shove 'em... its a mirage; fool's gold... again, I think we knew that would be the case. It's the first year of switching schemes... it SHOULD be expected.
Special Teams sucking is a huge concern... and IMO it boils down directly to the coach. Losing Seeley has REALLY hurt.
I certainly don't want to be mistaken as an apologist for this regime, because to be honest, I'm perfectly content being irate and irrational with them.... but in my few lucid moments where I am rational I have to acknowledge that there was absolutely no way we were going to be even mediocre this year.
The best that we can hope for is that by the end of the season the offense starts to show a little competency - players don't seem to consistently know where to go. The defense kinda already does, but it just needs more talent & speed. Special Teams just needs an enema.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
3-5 doesn't surprise me, this offense does. We were spoonfed ideas about how proper coaching and Mike and Tom getting their "guy" in there, and how "everyone is on the same page" will pay off and we'll see the early stages of the development of a true offense.
I thought we'd be scoring some points but just not making plays on defense.
But outside of the first few games, which 2 of the 3 were against Andrew Luck competitors, we can't even get out of the first quarter.
Forget the record, if Pat Shurmur can take the last half of the season, given how tough it's about to get, and make us have any kind of positive outlook for 2012, I will be ecstatic. I know beating pittsburgh and baltimore ain't gonna happen but can we make them sweat a little bit instead of just taking it like we always do? I know you should always respect your opponent but I don't think either team does and I honestly can't blame them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,224 Likes: 212
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,224 Likes: 212 |
Only read your first post. Overall I agree with the sentiment that the eyes have it. I don't remember watching Manning as a rookie but watching Colt I just don't see improvement. I don't see any plays that say hey wow if he could just do that more often ...
I think it might be interesting to have a breakdown of McCoy vs Mannings numbers for those 1st 16 games in 4 game intervals.
Did Manning show improvement in his numbers as he played more? Has Colt?
I don't know but my guess would be yes to Manning and no to Colt.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
Quote:
Special Teams just needs an enema.
We saw that Cribbs is back and making a difference on the coverage units last Sunday ... Also getting Titus Brown back will be a lift for the ST's.
Hopefully this will help get them back to the standards that we are accustom to.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
Even if it isn't working, wouldn't you say we have an identity as a team that runs the West Coast offense?
Your identity is what other people think you are.. right now other people think our offense couldn't move the ball against a good High School team.. that is our identity, put whatever label on it you want.
Quote:
Wouldn't you say our direction is a team that is young and talented? (Maybe raw is a better word than talented)
That's not a direction, that's a collection of people. Direction implies movement and more importantly, improvement... a direction implies you are going somewhere. We looked better against the Bengals and the Colts than we have looked since so if we have a direction, it's backwards.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
neither of those guys blocks on FGs though. hopefully, we found and fixed that issue.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 121
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 121 |
Thank you for bringing that to light. I think that yes, losing Seely has hurt, but more important has been the loss of the special team players that dotted our rosters in the past. Guys like Ventrone and Trusnik who were pretty much on the roster due to their ability to make plays on ST. We are seeing a huge turnover in that aspect that we haven't seen in a few years because this FO doesn't value guys like that in the same way regimes in the past have. To simply say that our ST suck because we lost the coach is not seeing the forest for the trees, IMO.
"If you need two yards, I'll get you two yards. If you need four yards, I'll get you two yards!" Ron Wolfley, Special Teams Madman
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,775 Likes: 404
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,775 Likes: 404 |
I think all this special teams talk is silly.
Is it important? Absolutely.
Has ours been less than stellar? Yes.
Does it impact your chances for wins when you don't field good special teams? Of course.
But you know what impacts our chances of wins even more? Terrible offense and defense. Man, would I love to fix those.
We were in the top 5, maybe even top 2 STs the last two years with terrible O and D. We had a total of 10 wins to show for it.
I could care less about guys like Trusnik and Ventrone and Constanzo and on and on. And I could care less about Seely. I'd prefer to complain about our ST players and coaches when they are actually costing us games.
Get some damn playmakers on this team!
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I'd prefer to complain about our ST players and coaches when they are actually costing us games.
It's that line of thinking that cost the 2010 Chargers a chance at the playoffs.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,775 Likes: 404
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,775 Likes: 404 |
At this point, I'd love a "chance at the playoffs".
Catch my meaning now?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,963 Likes: 769
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,963 Likes: 769 |
That's nice and all, but Special Teams is important, too. You can lose or win a game on Special Teams just as quickly - or quicker - than you can on offense or defense.
It's not an either-or situation... they ALL need to be fixed.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Colt McCoy after 16 games
|
|
