DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Colt McCoy after 16 games

I don't think that there's an order in which to do it... they should all be addressed concurrently.... and the amount of anguish is fitting, IMO. They suck, and posters are letting it be known that they suck... that's all.

Guys, this really isn't that hard to figure out and quite frankly I'm surprised at the amount of push back I'm getting here.

But that is certainly in line with how far this franchise has fallen and how low the expectations of the fans have fallen with them. We are a bottom 8 team in the league with a terrible O and D and the fans want to focus on STs.

Who gives a rat's behind if the ST costs us the Seattle game. We won and this team still sucks. Why? Because our O and D suck ... because we don't have a QB ... because we don't have much top tier talent.

I'd much rather go 8-8 every year, be competitive in games, and lose a game a two to special teams if we could display some competency on O and D. STs may make the difference between us being average or making the playoffs, but it's not even remotely close to why we really, really suck.

I just think the anger is misdirected. But, carry on.

why can't we be mad at the O, D, and STs?

I listened to the Houston game on the radio and then tortured myself by rewatching it on TV. I have alot of anger to give out

I can't believe you tortured yourself by watching that.

Although I doubted it sounded half as bad on radio as it actually looked.

It was quite depressing to say the least.

i'm in Austin, so I had the Houston radio guys. pretty much spent any dead time when we were on offense waxing poetic about the good ole days of Colt at Texas. i found it funny that they didn't even mention that Phil's a Longhorn though.

and, while it was depressing as I did yardwork, it wasn't half as bad as watching it (which is why I did - had to know how bad the game really was though I admit I fastforwarded alot of our defense as I couldn't stomach the 7yd run being followed up by an 8 yd run all game long)

Phil Taylor went to Baylor...

Hence anytime I refer to him it's "Phil Taylor from Baylor" ..Just rolls right off the tongue

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Guys, this really isn't that hard to figure out

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No, it really isn't


Here's where you are failing to follow what we're saying:

You seem to think we can't focus on more than one thing at a time. We, however, want to focus on O, D AND Special Teams.
Just because we don't also berate the O & D in every post we complain about ST's doesn't mean that we don't consider them to be important.

I think that he meant Phil Dawson, who did go to Texas.

Probably for the same reason I didn't think of Dawson...

It was 14 years ago.

I don't get it AT ALL....anybody watched the games? We have improved a lot on ST and Cribbs is having some nice returns lately, HOU gave us the ball between our 30-40yd line to avoid Cribbs, that's excellent field position nowadays, it's not their fault the Offense can't get points off of that....

what's the problem here? We had a bad ST game against OAK and then a couple of blocked kicks due to poor blocking by Cousins and Mack against SEA...since then I think we have outgained any team we faced on returns and our kicking is pretty good....out ST play on coverage was bad early, now good, overall I'd label them AVG and good kicking makes it an above AVG unit...which is better than our AVG at best D and horrible Offense....they're still our best unit

ST? really?

I think that special teams woes are a result of our youth movement.

In the past we had the special teams warriors who weren't good enough to be starters but played great on special teams. Problem was that they were finished products...in other words not guys you wanted starting.

Now this year we went with a youth movement...we are getting guys that we hope can develop into starters. So we have inexperience on special teams as a result.

If we keep drafting right then our roster will eventually be littered with players that are improving and waiting to take some starters job, but have been here for awhile and have some experience on special teams.

We'll get there...it always comes down to talent, and we've been dreadfully lacking. Add no consistency in offensive and defensive schemes and you get what we are seeing.....a cluster.

Good points,, logic says that these new young players will learn and mature and become better at thier jobs. OR, they'll be out the door and replaced by someone else the team feels has a better chance of being a contributor on ST today and perhaps more tomorrow.

And it's another thing that takes time.

certainly does suck watching though...

I just keep telling myself that it will pay off eventually if they stay the course.

NRTU but...

For what it's worth, I bought into the Holmgren statement that he got his guy in Shurmur. That may be so, but I'm beginning to wonder if Holmgren & Shurmur are the ones that we should have here.

I took a look again at the 2010 St. Louis Rams with Shurmur as the OC. They scored just 289 points (a whopping 18.1 ppg) and ranked 26th. Their defense ranked 12th, giving up just 328 points (20.5 ppg). They overproduced in getting to 7-9 and it was their defense that did the job more than their offense did.

We got rid of Mangini (and I was alright with that), but thinking more about it, we probably should have kept him and simply replaced his OC (namely Brian Daboll). He is now down in Miami and they're stinking up the joint.

Last year, our defense ranked just behind St. Louis with 332 points (20.8 ppg) and our offense was next to last with 271 points (16.9 ppg). What are the Browns averaging this year? Well, on offense we're averaging 14.9 ppg and ranked 29th! Even after the poor showing against Houston, our defense is still ranked 12th, giving up an average of 21.2 ppg.

I couldn't have imagined that Shurmur could be even worse than Daboll, but the averages don't lie. We've regressed this season! Some might give all sorts of excuses, but the hard truth is that the Browns have regressed from last year.

Who has confidence that we'll get more than 5 wins this year? Who has confidence that we'll reach 5 wins this year?

I really don't see the Browns winning any divisional games this year. I suspect we'll be 0-6 after the season in that regard. With that said, we have 3 other games on the schedule outside our division. We face St. Louis, Jacksonville and Arizona.

Those teams rank as follows:

Offense: St. Louis (31st) with 12.5 ppg, Jacksonville (32nd) with 12.2 ppg and Arizona (22nd) with 20.2 ppg.

Defense: St. Louis (29th) with 26.4 ppg, Jacksonville (8th) with 20.4 ppg and Arizona (23rd) with 24.5 ppg.

We could win a game or two of these, but we won't win all three.

Now, are we likely to score 26 points against St. Louis? We've score more than 17 points just once all season (against pathetic Indy) and have scored 13 or fewer points 4 times, including a 6-3 victory over Seattle.

Then consider that we've held opponents under 16 points just once, that Seattle victory. Our next lowest defensive stand was the 17-16 victory over Miami. We've given up 20 or more points a total of 5 times and came one point away from giving up 20 to the Colts!

We might defeat St. Louis this weekend, but St. Louis has Stephen Jackson and the Browns just gave up 380 total yards, including 261 rushing yards and 3 rushing TDs against Houston. I'm not confident that we can do that much.

I suspect that the Browns will probably be unable to score into double digits against Jacksonville either.

That leaves Arizona as the best last chance to find a victory. We'll have to see how things pan out over the next 5 weeks but I suspect that the best we can hope for is going for our 5th win in that game and we'll be unlikely to get it as it's in the desert.

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I couldn't have imagined that Shurmur could be even worse than Daboll, but the averages don't lie. We've regressed this season! Some might give all sorts of excuses, but the hard truth is that the Browns have regressed from last year.

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I sort of expected us to struggle a little getting used to a new system with no real upgrades in talent, especially with a shortened off-season... but I expected that to be a small step backwards and by week 10 I would have expected to see us starting to grow into the new system. In reality, we looked better in the first few weeks of the season than we do now and that's not saying much because we didn't look all that good then.

We still have Ventrone on the Roster, but He hasn't been making a lot of ST plays as he has in the past.

Costanzo was the ST demon the last few years if I recall...

Saw him make a couple plays during the 9ers game aswell...

Just sayin...

EDIT: This is why I love google...



I find this highly, ironically, funny...

(Not responding to you Adam. Just a General comment.)

It can only be surmised but I wonder how we'd have done so far and how this team, Colt McCoy and Pat Shurmur would look today if Hillis would simply have resumed as his uninjured, 2010 self and if Stieny and Womack were our guards like last year when many saw our OL as a strength.

I realize there are no acceptable excuses. Things are what they are and the team must utilize the mind-set to perform rather than lament and/or focus on the problems and/or what could have been.

But when we talk about "regression" we must wonder what would happen to any other mid to lower tier team if their two, experienced starting guards and best, (1000 yard 13 TD) running back were suddenly removed and replaced with absolutely no experience.

Yeah, I know, no excuses. So look at it another way, what if Heckert were to somehow bring in two quality, experienced starting guards and a 1000 yard, 13 TD running back for the next game.

Does anyone think that right now we could use a talent upgrade like that?

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Does anyone think that right now we could use a talent upgrade like that?

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If you keep using logic on here we're going to have to ask you to leave......

Dub,

These are some great points, and they make a lot of sense (probably means you'll be chastised by some! ) As you said, this isnt' the Patriots or Steelers losing the positions/production you mentioned. It was at best a mid-level team. Very few if any in that category would be productive in this situation.

I don't think for one minute anyone in Berea is any happier than the fans right now, but what can be done? Let's see how they approach the off season, and I think we'll see the top brass make the moves to add more pieces, and replace those that were lost (if they don't return).

yes, you can compare the 2010 Rams to the 2011 Browns offense, but then do not forget to mention the 2010 Broncos and the 2011 Rams offense.

McDaniels had a good offense (and terrible defense) for the Broncos. Goes to the Rams and they are worse this year than they were last year with Shurmur.

I guess there isn't any way to actually know how we'd have looked, but one can only assume it would be better than what we are seeing.

ANother reason I'm not ready to throw McCoy and Shurmur under a bus.

I suppose one could argue that not enough was done in the off season to prepare for the potential loss of a Stieny or Hillis. But then, they did sign Jackson, Hardesty was looking like he could have come back and they drafted Pinkston. Can't believe they intended to have Pinkston starting or that Jackson would be lost so early or that Hardesty would have been thrust into the fray so quickly...

That's a lot to overcome in a shorten off season.