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Look, all this complaining about play calling really breaks down to one thing ...... Shurmur does not trust McCoy.
So, since Holmgren & Heckert have brought them both in, they have to admit that they screwed up with either one or the other.
Since McCoy was a 3rd round pick and when he was taken, Holmgren said that it was inexplicable that he was able to be nabbed at that point in the draft and that McCoy was the steal of the draft.
I'm betting that the decision would be made to get rid of Shurmur first because Holmgren (as a former HC himself) can see that Shurmur isn't getting the job done and is way over his head as a HC.
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But it's not just the play calling.
McCoy has been unable to make certain throws this year .... throws that an NFL QB has to make. I have long said that any NFL QB could make the throws that McCoy makes most often. He struggles with the throws that set elite NFL QBs apart from the backups and also rans. I am certain that Shurmur sees this, and maybe he just refuses to force McCoy to do things that he cannot do?
A) Colt McCoy sucking does not explain a TE run up the middle in that situation.
Shurmur's playcalling has hindered this team as much if not more than Colt McCoy has.
B) Colt was in the midst of one of his better games. Now, that doesn't say much about Colt, but if there were ever a time to give him a shot, it was today.
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What we didnt see was anything resembling an NFL offense after we got close to the endzone.
I do recall earlier in the season...Colt saying Shurmur was more of a teacher than Mangini was... I wonder what has happened between the two of them...
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I'm betting that the decision would be made to get rid of Shurmur first because Holmgren (as a former HC himself) can see that Shurmur isn't getting the job done and is way over his head as a HC.
Look there is no way in hell Shurmur is going to be replaced and everyone might as well forget it. 2 years of sucking he might get the axe but even then I have my doubts.
When Holmgren said he would keep drafting QBs until he got it right, I think that was a pretty clear message.
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Just a general question not directed at anyone in particular...
If shurmur was fired who is out there that you would want to replace him? Assuming no current head coaches will leave their team to come here and Cowher and Gruden aren't either.
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Exactly. It is absolutely futile to be talking about this. Shurmur is not going to get fired this year. Maybe at the end of next year, but not anytime in the near future.
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I'm betting that the decision would be made to get rid of Shurmur first because Holmgren (as a former HC himself) can see that Shurmur isn't getting the job done and is way over his head as a HC.
Look there is no way in hell Shurmur is going to be replaced and everyone might as well forget it. 2 years of sucking he might get the axe but even then I have my doubts.
When Holmgren said he would keep drafting QBs until he got it right, I think that was a pretty clear message.
Maybe, but Lerner might not give him the chance. Holmgren isn't in his first year of putting on a crappy product on the field and he's the one that hired Shurmur and Lerner might pay attention to the fan base, since they are the ones that actually keep the money coming in, not Shurmur and not Holmgren.
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Exactly. It is absolutely futile to be talking about this. Shurmur is not going to get fired this year. Maybe at the end of next year, but not anytime in the near future.
And that is the sad state of things in Browns fan land. We are stuck with this guy until Lerner gets rid of both of them.
Last week I actually had the game on but was goofing off on the internet because I knew the would lose.
This week, as most weeks I actually paid attention life and death with each play joy and mouning.
Problem is I dont see many more games that Shurmurs game planning will win. None.
I saw that Colt given a chance can make things happen. I saw Colt make plays when given the chance. I saw Colt muck up too. Thats to be expected because I see that every week from every QB. Look at Stafford today couple incompletions to the end zone guess he stinks and doesnt have "it"
The eye test told me today that Colt has "it" and the coach has nothing.
So Im forced to sit through another couple of years of bad coaching and watching more QB changes hoping a horrid coach can "figure" it out?
That stinks and the worst part about it is I will. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Jules , you and my pal Mourgrym are most likely right ... But I was at the game today and can say aquatically that Coach Shumur at this place and time " sucks ! 
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j/c
When Holmgren hired Shurmur i had my doubts but i figured Mike knew what he was doing but so far from what i have seen Shurmur is in over his head. It seems like on every play somebody misses an assignment or makes a mistake of some kind. Now i realize we didn't have a mini-camp but you would think that the team would show gradual improvement week to week but i don't see it and that falls squarely on Shurmur's shoulders. I sure hope that next year with a full off season and training camp that we don't see this same type of play or we will be starting all over again with another coaching staff.
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I think it's an absolute shame that Mike Holmgren fired a coach who had this team on the up and up and brought in a guy who makes Romeo Crennel look like Bill Belichick.
Crennel: 24-40, .375
Mangini: 10-22, .313
Shurmur: 3-6, .333
Just as a reminder...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Now i realize we didn't have a mini-camp but you would think that the team would show gradual improvement week to week but i don't see it and that falls squarely on Shurmur's shoulders.
Yeah... it makes me think of Harbaugh and the 49'ers...That has been said many times on here thou...
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We're on pace for a fire Lerner thread next week.
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After watching that debacle at the end of today's game (the Rams game), where Shurmur played for a FG from inside the 10 yard line with over 2 minutes left in the game and where the FG would have only given us a 2 point lead, I think it is finally time to make the call and fire Shurmur. His playcalling has been terrible all season and even with some decent calls early in this game, he blew it on 2 of our approaches to the redzone. The idea of a HC/OC rolled into one was bad from the start, but it is apparent that this guy is in way over his head on both accounts. Fire him now.
While I am by no stretch of the imagination a big fan of his, I'd like to give him another year. Holmgren already said they're going to get him a OC so let's see what two more first round draft choices can get him
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We're on pace for a fire Lerner thread next week.
Now that, i would support! the guy is horrible
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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nice dig but what was the strength of schdule with mangini vs what Shurmer has seen this year?
The funny thing is if you look at it who ever we play the first week is going to have a good year
Last year Bucs should have won then lost they go what 10-6
This year Cin should have won then they go probably on pace for 9 or 10 V's
Sad really.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Crennel: 24-40, .375
Mangini: 10-22, .313
Shurmur: 3-6, .333
Just as a reminder...
Yeah, but 3-13 is .231 
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Holmgren already said they're going to get him a OC so let's see what two more first round draft choices can get him
Quote?? I missed this, and it's exciting news.
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it was during a radio interview when we played the seahawks. Holmgren said they would likely hire an OC but Shurmur would probably want to continue calling his own plays. They wanted someone last year but he wasn't available.
My guess is it was Brad Childress and he didnt want to coach because he was getting paid by the Vikings not to coach. He also spent a lot of time in Cleveland during camp.
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What does Mangini being a good or bad coach have to do with Shurmur?
This is easy. Mangini was fired because he didn't win enough. At least "supposedly" that was the reason. That means the next coach better damn well win more than the last one (in the same time frame the previous coach was given), or he should EXPECT to be fired due to winning less than the guy who didn't win enough. That's basic logic and only fair.
If that's not the case, then Mangini wasn't fired due to performance but rather just "because" or the fact that Holmgren just didn't like the guy and wanted to bring in a bunch of his cronies. If that's the case, then it's inexcusable and I want no part of Holmgren leading this organization for another minute.
Now obviously I don't realistically expect Holmgren to fire Shurmur after one year regardless of what our record ends up. The fact that he won't just further goes to show the REAL reason Mangini was let go was reason #2 above and NOT his W-L record. That is the truly disheartening part.
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My guess is it was Brad Childress and he didnt want to coach because he was getting paid by the Vikings not to coach. He also spent a lot of time in Cleveland during camp.
If Chilly did give advice to Shurmur...I can see why Shurmur sucks as of now....The Vikings can pay Chilly all they want...as long as it keeps him out of Cleveland....
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They run the same system. Shurmur and Chilly worked for Andy Reid. They are still very good friends so he is the odds on favorite.
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That's what scares me Mourgrym....
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Ugh, Childress is only slightly more well-versed at winning as a head coach than Shurmur and Jauron are.
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The guy has a personality of a cactus, but was one boneheaded play from favre, from appearing in a super bowl.
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Shurmur needs to hire a play caller/offensive coordinator this offseason.
I am tired of firing coaches all the time. We need to let him grow into the job, but he needs help so that he can coach the team ..... not just call plays.
this^
oioioioi
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After watching that debacle at the end of today's game (the Rams game), where Shurmur played for a FG from inside the 10 yard line with over 2 minutes left in the game and where the FG would have only given us a 2 point lead, I think it is finally time to make the call and fire Shurmur. His playcalling has been terrible all season and even with some decent calls early in this game, he blew it on 2 of our approaches to the redzone. The idea of a HC/OC rolled into one was bad from the start, but it is apparent that this guy is in way over his head on both accounts. Fire him now.
While I am by no stretch of the imagination a big fan of his, I'd like to give him another year. Holmgren already said they're going to get him a OC so let's see what two more first round draft choices can get him
He also said that Shurmur would still call the plays.
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This thread is ridiculous. A new coach, handed a team with little talent, a shortened training camp, implementing new offensive and defensive systems, 9 games into the first season of his head coaching career, .....and you're calling for his head?  You could even argue he's 2 crappy plays away from having a winning record. Sure he's made some boneheaded mistakes.....and big ones at that. If he's still making the same ones next year at this time, I'll be right with you in this thread. I was calling for Romeo's head after 2 seasons for being a horrible gameday coach. Yes, the team looks like crap, they're damn near impossible to watch and Shurm is most definitely a contributing factor. But he's brand spankin' new and there's no way in hell after 9 games, with the talent he was given, that you can determine he's not going to be a successful coach here. These firing threads are embarassing and look like the whiny kiddy threads on all the other forums.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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How many years do you have to be a coach to have some nerve?
How many years do you have to be a coach to know that your 3rd string TE is on the field replacing your FB for whom you've just called a play?
I have no appetite for starting over again...I'm with everyone on that. I'd like to give Shurmur more time and quite frankly he's going to get it anyway.
But I hate stupidity. I hate playing to lose. I hate that he seems to deflect blame to the players. I hate that we have shown no improvement at all. We are not capable of scoring TDs. We are the worst team in the league. Average would be a dream at this point.
What I'm saying is I could give a rats you know what happens to Shurmur at this point. Where he's failing IMO has nothing to do with gaining experience as a coach.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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How many years do you have to be a coach to have some nerve?
I'd think more than 9 games as a head coach (and with a better talent pool).
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How many years do you have to be a coach to know that your 3rd string TE is on the field replacing your FB for whom you've just called a play?
His plate is full and more than a new coach can handle....I'm still pizzed that Holmgren allowed him to be the HC and OC. That's a problem that can and will be addressed.
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I have no appetite for starting over again...I'm with everyone on that. I'd like to give Shurmur more time and quite frankly he's going to get it anyway.
That's exactly how I feel.
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But I hate stupidity. I hate playing to lose. I hate that he seems to deflect blame to the players. I hate that we have shown no improvement at all. We are not capable of scoring TDs. We are the worst team in the league. Average would be a dream at this point.
Everything you mentioned can be addressed and improved upon. I don't think Shurmur is stupid. Is he HC material? We don't have basket of data to determine that as of yet. I agree that there's been no improvement, and the Browns are nauseating to watch....especially after witnessing the better teams in the league. How much of this is due to a lack of talent or coaching remains to be seen.....but we lack serious talent in the positions that put points on the board.
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What I'm saying is I could give a rats you know what happens to Shurmur at this point. Where he's failing IMO has nothing to do with gaining experience as a coach.
I don't think there's enough of a body of work to determine that as of yet. If his playcalling and lack of kahunas persist through next season with more talent, I'm going to be right there with you.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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j/c Holmgren is qualified to be the president of the team. Superbowl winner, long-time head coach. Only a few people you could prefer for the position and you're not going to get them. Heckert is qualified to be the general manager of the team. Quality drafting in his position in Philadelphia and what appear to be good acquisitions here. Doesn't tell fans to root for Buffalo. Shurmur is questionably qualified to be the head coach of this team. He is schooled in the west-coast offense that both Holmgren and Heckert prefer. He has experience as an offensive coordinator. There are a few other people you may rather have, but they aren't here. There aren't a lot of people who are better choices. Jauron is an awesome DC to have. The only problem is fearing he may get a HC position at some point. I'm very happy with the FO. Everyone being on the same page and having some proven success is all I ask for. If Holmgren and Heckert want Shurmur then I think he is likely going to be a good choice. I'll take this team over any since 99'. I can enter week 10 knowing the draft will go well. We can look into the future knowing that if the coach is ever fired, we won't have to replace the entire team. The FO is finally coherent. 
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We're on pace for a fire Lerner thread next week.
There should be one every week until he is fired.
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We're on pace for a fire Lerner thread next week.
There should be one every week until he is fired.
Some of u guys DO NOT GET IT...Patience can be hard to have but it is NEEDED...None of the Top 3 Cheese r goin' anywhere...
As everything fell yesterday it actually worked out real good...REAL GOOD...
Miami winning helps big time...If we're to think Luck and Barkley are the consensus 1-2 picks we MUST have a St. Louis or Carolina sitting at 2 so we can go up and get the QB...If it goes Indy/Miami we're SCREWED...
I want to see these PUPS on D grow for the future...And Little get into a groove...Other than that I don't give a rats ass if we LOSE OUT...It HELPS!!!!!!!!!
It helps because in 2 years we won't need to be talking LOSING BS anymore!!!!!!!!!...This is our LAST shot at landing a Top Quality QB...
When Carolina or St. Louis is on the clock at 2...Heckert best drop a dime and make the offer...BOTH #1's PLUS...
I firmly believe that Heckert & Holmgren had McCoy in the discussion when the trade went down with Atlanta...KNOWING the QB's in this class...KNOWING we were gonna struggle with a New EVERYTHING being instituted...AMMO if needed to move up this year...We've got it...And NOONE else does...We can put together a package better than ANY other team...
Heckert also said we will hit FA next year HARDER...These guys have us positioned SUPERBLY moving forward...
Look at this roster...Look at the dollars we've got committed to the Cap going forward...Edwards/Winslow/Rogers/Williams...GONE.. .The new CBA and draft slotting cap wise will no longer be a hindrance to any team...We've got ONE guy inked long-term at big bucks and he just so happens to be at the 2nd most IMPORTANT position on any team...LEFT TACKLE...And other than Haden virtually every KEEPER on this team is had at a solid cap figure...Ward/Taylor/Rubin/Sheard/Little...
That is how we can move up aggressively and get the damn QUARTERBACK we need...And be more aggressive in FA...2 drafts and 2 FA periods and we are on our way...GET THE QB NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!...Our window of opportunity is quickly closing...
Go Browns!!!
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I don't know who we need to fire. What I do know is that something needs to change.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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This thread is ridiculous. A new coach, handed a team with little talent, a shortened training camp, implementing new offensive and defensive systems, 9 games into the first season of his head coaching career, .....and you're calling for his head?
Come on. The man that was hired as the HC is incompetent for the job and it shows.
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You could even argue he's 2 crappy plays away from having a winning record. Sure he's made some boneheaded mistakes.....and big ones at that. If he's still making the same ones next year at this time, I'll be right with you in this thread. I was calling for Romeo's head after 2 seasons for being a horrible gameday coach. Yes, the team looks like crap, they're damn near impossible to watch and Shurm is most definitely a contributing factor. But he's brand spankin' new and there's no way in hell after 9 games, with the talent he was given, that you can determine he's not going to be a successful coach here.
The talent was fine enough to win 5 games last year and the players that aren't here now which were here last year have been replaced by better players.
Don't give me 'brand spankin' new' and 'no talent'. He's had as much talent as 'brand spankin' new HC' Harbaugh has had in San Fran and he's doing quite well.
Injuries play a part, but all teams suffer through injuries and continue to win. The playcalling from this HC (since it was his idea to call the plays himself) has been nothing short of atrocious. We've seen discontent in the locker room and he's handled that poorly.
This team isn't as bad as the HC makes them look.
I'm going to go on the record and say that Shurmur sucks as a coach (not just a head coach, but coaching in any capacity) and that he won't ever be successful here or anywhere else.
Last edited by anarchy2day; 11/14/11 07:35 AM.
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Long time no chat... So Mangini haters from last year want the new guy gone eh?
The new Guy does suck however if blam is to be cast...Holmgren is the one that has really jacked this thing up... as much as I hated the shurmer hire and still do... we need to get an oc. We need to stop drafting guys like the hardesty`s and Taylor's and actually put some damned talent on the field vs these "boom bust" picks...
Not a bit impressed with Holmgren whatsoever but he can right this ship and at some point he needs step in.
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and the players that aren't here now which were here last year have been replaced by better players.
That's debatable.
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Some of u guys DO NOT GET IT...Patience can be hard to have but it is NEEDED...None of the Top 3 Cheese r goin' anywhere...
Maybe not. And this franchise won't win until the HC is gone and replaced. Plain and simple. Patience? I'm not asking for miracles here. I just have low expectations that aren't even being reached. Losing to the Rams? Getting demolished by the Texans like we did. Ditto for Oakland. Ditto for Tennessee.
Even two of the wins we have should have been losses, Seattle and Miami.
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As everything fell yesterday it actually worked out real good...REAL GOOD...
A loss is never good, nor REAL GOOD, unless you've given up (which I have) and you're looking for draft position. If Bruce Drennan is right and we sit at #10, that's simply horrible, given our record. That number should lower since we're not likely to win another game the rest of the way.
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Miami winning helps big time...If we're to think Luck and Barkley are the consensus 1-2 picks we MUST have a St. Louis or Carolina sitting at 2 so we can go up and get the QB...If it goes Indy/Miami we're SCREWED...
Why? The Browns don't need a QB change! We need a HC that knows a damned thing about playcalling, since he took it upon himself to take those duties! Because he made that decision, we're suffering. When that decision was announced, I thought 'Okay, he's an offensive-minded coach and we'll do okay with that!' We've scored 131 points! Indianapolis has scored as many and only Jacksonville (who we play next week) and St. Louis (who just beat us) have scored fewer points. We've scored fewer points than juggernauts Seattle (144), Washington (136), and Kansas City (141).
We've played 1 divisional game (a loss) so far and end with 5 divisional games out of the final 6 games. Our division opponents have a combined record of 19-9.
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I want to see these PUPS on D grow for the future...And Little get into a groove...Other than that I don't give a rats ass if we LOSE OUT...It HELPS!!!!!!!!!
It helps? Yeah, as I said, for draft position. Remember that prior to trading down, we were picking 6th last year! We're hoping to have a higher pick in the draft for the next one? That's sad man. Really sad.
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It helps because in 2 years we won't need to be talking LOSING BS anymore!!!!!!!!!...This is our LAST shot at landing a Top Quality QB...
Here's a clue. It ain't the QB position that's a problem.
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When Carolina or St. Louis is on the clock at 2...Heckert best drop a dime and make the offer...BOTH #1's PLUS...
You've got to be kidding, right? We need to be looking to trade down again if we're sitting that high or taking that playmaker that we so much want and it damned well better not be a QB!
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I firmly believe that Heckert & Holmgren had McCoy in the discussion when the trade went down with Atlanta
LOL - Why? Because they had Matt Ryan on the team?
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KNOWING the QB's in this class...KNOWING we were gonna struggle with a New EVERYTHING being instituted...AMMO if needed to move up this year...We've got it...And NOONE else does...We can put together a package better than ANY other team...
Or we can use those picks to fill much needed holes at WR, RB, OG, OT, LB, CB, DE.
For what it's worth, some prospect info from CBS Sports and where THEY rank them. ( http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2012_QB )
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Heckert also said we will hit FA next year HARDER...These guys have us positioned SUPERBLY moving forward...
Really? Harder than last year? What did we do last year in regards to free agents? Other than stating it, how have they positioned us superbly moving forward? The playcalling on offense that will inspire free agent offensive weapons to come to Cleveland? Hmmm. We have a better chance of landing free agents on defense with Jauron and some of the playmakers we have there but they won't want to come to a losing team with little prospect of ever winning with this HC.
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Look at this roster...Look at the dollars we've got committed to the Cap going forward...Edwards/Winslow/Rogers/Williams...GONE.. .The new CBA and draft slotting cap wise will no longer be a hindrance to any team...We've got ONE guy inked long-term at big bucks and he just so happens to be at the 2nd most IMPORTANT position on any team...LEFT TACKLE...And other than Haden virtually every KEEPER on this team is had at a solid cap figure...Ward/Taylor/Rubin/Sheard/Little...
Every team plays by the same rules, even regarding the salary cap. We're not unique in that respect. No, we're not in any greater position than other teams, except in regards to potentially drafting early in next draft.
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That is how we can move up aggressively and get the damn QUARTERBACK we need...And be more aggressive in FA...2 drafts and 2 FA periods and we are on our way...GET THE QB NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!...Our window of opportunity is quickly closing...
Again, QB is not the problem. Regarding the draft and free agency, didn't we say that two years ago. Three years ago. Four years ago?
Nah! I'm not impressed so easily.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
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and the players that aren't here now which were here last year have been replaced by better players.
That's debatable.
I'm curious to think about who you have in mind where that is debatable.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
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He did say that they would hire an OC ..... but that did not mean that Shurmur would not continue to call plays.
Oh yeah,, That is correct.,, I remember now.. The idea, if I have this correct, was to remove some of the day to day coaching responsibilities from Shurmur. But not the playcalling responsibility.,
Yeah,, I remember now..Thanks
No matter what, I'm not even a little convinced that Shurmur should be fired. I think it's a knee jerk reaction and simply put,, a nutty one.
Too many things point to simple frustration by the fans and not sober facts being considered..
Folks can point to this play or that play and say,, wow,, how freakin dumb was that. But they don't know what went into that decision they can only guess.
Shurmur strikes me as a smart, thoughtful man who doesn't make snap decisions but rather decisions based on what he knows of his team and circumstances he finds the team in.
That's what I see. But I also see a first year HC, 9 games in, shortened prep time, no feature back, no stud receivers, Rookie QB, Installing new system etc etc.. and think,, I'm not sure how much you can reasonably expect from a person.
I also believe that the time has come to cast our lot behind someone and stick to it.
I don't believe there is a chance in hell that Shurmur gets fired this season.. Not even remotely possible.
But hey, I've been way wrong before so stay tuned...
Last edited by Damanshot; 11/14/11 08:29 AM.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Official Fire Shurmur Thread
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