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As a fan (one who owns a schedule), I firmly believ we can move our way up the draft day list from 11. I just believe that some things need addressed now or it won't matter too much who ends up a Brown. Ugly. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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j/k The whole fire everyone thing is very odd to me. Even worse is the people that are saying last years team was so much better than this season. The whole team had a total of 13 TD passes last season. This season Colt has thrown 10 to this point. The real difference is in the running game and anyone that says we should have this great smash mouth running attack like last season is kidding themselves. Last year Hillis had a career year. How would that same running game have looked with our 4th and 5th RB on the depth chart running for us? These guys shouldn't even be on the team and yet they are what we are relying on for a running game. Some of the same people that think Mangini didn't get enough time are now calling for the coaches head after just 9 games. My 6 year old has more patience than some of the posters on this board.
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#gmstrong
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Quote:
My 6 year old has more patience than some of the posters on this board.
I've often questioned the age of some posters 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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One thing I've noticed the last few days, that bugs me:
John Fox today, said that "Tim Tebow wouldn't survive in a normal offense" - thus the Denver Broncos are running something which is not a normal offense, in order to play to his strengths. My guess is that nobody in the organization believes that Tebow will be the Broncos QB of the future, but still, they try to build around the strengths of what they have now, and create an offense which can win a few games.
It's quite clear that McCoy is still most comfortable out of the shotgun - why aren't we doing the same thing?
~Lyuokdea
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From the websight, a Schurmur article from 11-14-2011,
Schurmur says he would do it again, and he would "go to the well" with trying to get points by that field goal.
That is a major bummer for me.
I have to totally disagree with Coach on that one.
You try a couple throws down there, and you suddenly have 3 ways you can win that game. Td catch, other Td catch, or Field goal.
It might have been different if at the end of that drive there had been 30 seconds or less on the game clock, even 40. With 2 minutes on the game clock at the end ... after you ran up the middle all of those, it was and still will be the wrong decision.
How could I see it the other way? Coach I coud see it the other way if the Rams had put say 27 points on the board already, and shown they were likely to get a touchdown with ease, with any 1 offensive posession.
ON TO Jacksonville! From " Beleiveland!" or factory of sadness.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
One thing I've noticed the last few days, that bugs me:
John Fox today, said that "Tim Tebow wouldn't survive in a normal offense" - thus the Denver Broncos are running something which is not a normal offense, in order to play to his strengths. My guess is that nobody in the organization believes that Tebow will be the Broncos QB of the future, but still, they try to build around the strengths of what they have now, and create an offense which can win a few games.
It's quite clear that McCoy is still most comfortable out of the shotgun - why aren't we doing the same thing?
Did you also hear that most if not all of the commentators out there are not Praising Fox for changing the system to fit Tebow.. Did you read where Elway is forcing the HC to use Tebow so his answer is, ok, if I gotta use him, then we can't go with our normal offense, we need to adapt to Tebow style.
A style I might add, that few feel can be sustained (not sure I agree, but others know more than me so I'll bow to them)
Also, we are talking about a HUGE change to take advantage of Tebows skills. With Colt, my understanding is, to be successful in the WCO, a QB has to GET comfortable from both under center and shotgun..
So, this is a lost year, I think they all knew it was going to be.. so what better year is there than this to get him working on it.
I have no problem with trying to get him to grow into what they need..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Schurmur says he would do it again, and he would "go to the well" with trying to get points by that field goal.
That is a major bummer for me.
I have to totally disagree with Coach on that one
Ahh yes, the value of 20/20 vision is that you get to second guess people without putting any of your skin in the game..
I wonder how many of you would have done differently had you been in his shoes.
You gotta play to win and he was doing just that. Doesn't matter if you win by 1 point or 100 points.. a win is a win.
Phil Dawson is a "Go to" guy in that situation.. 98 times out of a 100, Phil puts in through the uprights and the D holds for the win.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I wonder how many of you would have done differently had you been in his shoes.
Nobody can say for 100% sure, I've never been an NFL coach or stood on the sidelines but I was watching the game thinking..
"Ok, roll out, play action.. please don't throw the fade though. Let's mix it up right here on first down."
PLAY ONE
"Ok, we ran it up the middle, ok, no problem, let's not wait until 3rd down to throw the ball, here we go, play action roll out.."
PLAY TWO
"GET ON THE BALL!!!!! Did we ummmm.. did we just try to hand the ball to the TE? WTH? Who designed THAT play?"
"Oh well, let's score the TD on 3rd down, c'mon Colt, find your man."
PLAY THREE
"Ok, so we had no intention of scoring a TD, Shurmur is gutless."
"Oh well, Dawson is money, but I don't have any confidence that we will keep the Rams from going 40 yards to at least try a game winning FG. Hurry up and make this, I have to to to the bathroom."
FG ATTEMPT
"Oh well, at least we helped our draft position."
yebat' Putin
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actually...phil does hit that kick 98 of 100 times....
but there is a released study of situational plays that estimates in that situation, a 2 point lead with 2+ minutes left, that there is only a 30-50% chance of winning. the chance increases to 70-75% if you get the TD.
no need to bring out the weak argument that they hadn't moved the ball all day. the percentages were not in our favor,and murmur is just gutless to not even take a shot with 6 plays inside the 20. he deserves this loss....
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Quote:
Quote:
I wonder how many of you would have done differently had you been in his shoes.
Nobody can say for 100% sure, I've never been an NFL coach or stood on the sidelines but I was watching the game thinking..
"Ok, roll out, play action.. please don't throw the fade though. Let's mix it up right here on first down."
PLAY ONE
"Ok, we ran it up the middle, ok, no problem, let's not wait until 3rd down to throw the ball, here we go, play action roll out.."
PLAY TWO
"GET ON THE BALL!!!!! Did we ummmm.. did we just try to hand the ball to the TE? WTH? Who designed THAT play?"
"Oh well, let's score the TD on 3rd down, c'mon Colt, find your man."
PLAY THREE
"Ok, so we had no intention of scoring a TD, Shurmur is gutless."
"Oh well, Dawson is money, but I don't have any confidence that we will keep the Rams from going 40 yards to at least try a game winning FG. Hurry up and make this, I have to to to the bathroom."
FG ATTEMPT
"Oh well, at least we helped our draft position."
LOL Well, I doubt anyone had much different thoughts than that to be honest.. I know it crossed my mind as well..
But like you said, you've never been an NFL coach. I can't imagine the pressure they are under.. Having said that, this is the profession they've chosen so pressure shouldn't really enter into the equation.
But what should enter the equation is, "what gives us the best chance of winning this game"
At that point, I could totally understand his thinking. Get close, kick a FG, (with Dawson as the guy, it's hard to find fault) it's a high percentage play that most of the time, works very well for us.
The D was playing well and he had faith in them I'm sure so he probably figured, kick it, have the D hold and we get out of there with a W.
I don't see anything wrong with that.. other than taking a few shots at the end zone wouldn't have been bad either..
The trick would be,, what if we get intercepted.. That kills all hope.
For me, that tight of a game, I'm going with Dawsons foot..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
"Oh well, at least we helped our draft position."
and maybe that is the plan.....
too bad we can't control Atlanta's play calls..... 
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Quote:
and murmur is just gutless to not even take a shot with 6 plays inside the 20.
I agree. In fact I think he is LUCKY that we ran the first 3 times and got the first down. How many times this year have we run the ball 3 times for a first down? Especially down deep... counting this time I think the answer is 1.
Shurmur was very prepared to give them the ball back after kicking a FG to go up by 2 with 4 minutes left, it was only because we were able to do something we don't do very often, which is run 3 times for a first down, that he didn't have to do that and was able to run a couple more minutes off the clock.
yebat' Putin
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"Live in fear, die in fear." Conservative is sensible at times; but there is also time to show ambitious amounts of guts to build confidence. The number of times we have gone up the middle, 1st down, is predictably outrageous. even with the field goal time enough to lose. I expected a more potent play mix. had just laughingly told a bar buddy that 1)Shurm is setting up the FG, and 2) we better kick it on first down before we get snakebit (again). Geez, I was just kiddin.' Still feel bad about that one. Irony aplenty. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I do not want to see Shurmur fired right now...HOWEVER...his decision to do what he did (= not even ATTEMPT to get a TD) is a fire-able offence in my eyes. Now he is saying he'd do it again if given the chance.  He screwed that up about as bad as you can...from saying no to any attempt at getting in the end zone to a hand off to the FB when the blocking TE was playing FB.  THEN thinking a two-point lead would be sufficient with 2 minutes left in the game. If he actually DOES do that again...I'd can him before Monday morning. I hope Holmgren chewed him a new rear-end regarding his entire thoughts and actions in the last 4 minutes of that game.
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Quote:
The Official Fire Shurmur Thread
#867088 - Sun Nov 13 2011 04:50 PM
I'm going to give him the benefit of doubt for this thread ... Sense the (24) hour rule was not practiced here.
We can all theorize what he should have done on the final red zone situation and there will still never be an absolute conclusion, because we will never be able to replay that acted.
Does this situation warrant such a hastily drawn conclusion that ...
"the Coach must go"?
It's JMO, but I can find only one conclusion from the Coach's judgment on that occasion and that is that he did not let emotions cloud his judgment in this instance and to me ... That's a mark of good Coaching values.
So in light of this positive and in the event of theories that can never be absolute ... I'm willing to give Coach Shurmur the benefit of doubt, that he was making decisions based on his teaching and beliefs, trying to correctly be in tuned with his team based on what he saw out on the field.
Right or wrong, but to speak of firing him at this point is just plain wrong IMMHO.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif)
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Quote:
Shurmur was very prepared to give them the ball back after kicking a FG to go up by 2 with 4 minutes left, it was only because we were able to do something we don't do very often, which is run 3 times for a first down, that he didn't have to do that and was able to run a couple more minutes off the clock.
Brilliant as you often times are DC,...
I think you might be in the right direction here and this fact could have influenced what went into Coach Shurmur's thought process at the end of last Sunday's game.
You think maybe in part?
Okay ... how many times have we seen the opposite from this team in past regimes, where we ran the ball between the 20's just to get down in the red zone and go 3 and out passing the ball and we where left confused as to the reasons why we abandoned the run, when it obviously was working and helped propel us down the field?
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All Pro
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Quote:
From the websight, a Schurmur article from 11-14-2011,
Schurmur says he would do it again, and he would "go to the well" with trying to get points by that field goal.
That is a major bummer for me.
I have to totally disagree with Coach on that one.
You try a couple throws down there, and you suddenly have 3 ways you can win that game. Td catch, other Td catch, or Field goal.
It might have been different if at the end of that drive there had been 30 seconds or less on the game clock, even 40. With 2 minutes on the game clock at the end ... after you ran up the middle all of those, it was and still will be the wrong decision.
How could I see it the other way? Coach I coud see it the other way if the Rams had put say 27 points on the board already, and shown they were likely to get a touchdown with ease, with any 1 offensive posession.
ON TO Jacksonville! From " Beleiveland!" or factory of sadness.
It is one thing to call a bizarre timid sequence of gutless plays with no chance to score with the game on the line, the flubbed field goal demonstrates why you at least TRY to win with a TD.
To repeat you would double down on stupid says we should have kept mangini another year. This guys is in over his head. it is obvious he does not respect the talent he has. the bizarre TE call was as stupid as any i have seen let alone at the NFL level.
This guys does not even huddle with his struggling offense, rarely repeats plays that say, well, they work. he seemingly does not let his QB audible yet tells the press he does. leaves his qb exposed ad infinitum every third down to be pummeled by blitzers with no extra blockers. he stinks and is too pround to even remedy what reality dictates.
losing in the manner we did Sunday underlines we have yet another rookie not ready for prime time HC. That holmgren could not get or did not any veteran coaches want to work for Mr. Ego.
From the sloppy Cincinnati game when the entire staff sat on their collective asses and let Cinci run a gift play TD and not call timeout to the red zone sequence Sunday we are consistent. Sloppy. from the HC on down..no from Holmgren on Down for hiring this over matched Coach, who cannot even admit he Blew it.
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Quote:
After watching that debacle at the end of today's game (the Rams game), where Shurmur played for a FG from inside the 10 yard line with over 2 minutes left in the game and where the FG would have only given us a 2 point lead, I think it is finally time to make the call and fire Shurmur.
How do you feel now after watching McCoy throw that terrible INT at the goal-line?
This is the problem with fandom. Too much second guessing and suppositions. McCoy goes out there and makes an idiotic throw (his only really stOOpid throw of the game) which could have been the critical turnover of the game.
In that one single play, that spelled-out EXACTLY why Shurmur shouldn't recklessly trust a young QB in those situations. Shurmur played the odds and the snapper, who has been one of the best in the league for the last several years, didn't execute. Yet it's fans like you who call for his head. 
80% of all that hot air went right out of the "fire Shurmur now!" balloon on that one little INT. Good, if for no other reason than to teach people a lesson on how knee-jerk reactions are stOOpid. 
Going one step further, if you (and yes, I mean YOU specifically dragon) are going to excuse McCoy's production because the line can't block and the receivers can't get open (your words, not mine) then you can't turn around and blame Shurmur. That's called a double-standard, and you can't have it both ways. If the team around McCoy causes problems for his production, they cause problems for Shurmur as well. Fair is fair.
Taking it even another step further, I thought Shurmur called a HELLUVA game today. I'm very curious to see how many people (and specifically which posters) give him credit for it.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
After watching that debacle at the end of today's game (the Rams game), where Shurmur played for a FG from inside the 10 yard line with over 2 minutes left in the game and where the FG would have only given us a 2 point lead, I think it is finally time to make the call and fire Shurmur.
How do you feel now after watching McCoy throw that terrible INT at the goal-line?
This is the problem with fandom. Too much second guessing and suppositions. McCoy goes out there and makes an idiotic throw (his only really stOOpid throw of the game) which could have been the critical turnover of the game.
In that one single play, that spelled-out EXACTLY why Shurmur shouldn't recklessly trust a young QB in those situations. Shurmur played the odds and the snapper, who has been one of the best in the league for the last several years, didn't execute. Yet it's fans like you who call for his head.
80% of all that hot air went right out of the "fire Shurmur now!" balloon on that one little INT. Good, if for no other reason than to teach people a lesson on how knee-jerk reactions are stOOpid.
Taking it a step further, I thought Shurmur called a HELLUVA game today. I'm very curious to see how many people (and specifically which posters) give him credit for it.......
Cant speak for the OP but me I feel no different I feel that Shurmur should have played to win and today he did. The only thing that changed was that we didnt run the ball up the middle 5 straight times and then lost.
On the missed FG this week Shurmur kept trying to get it to the end zone and score. Colt was passing and when we finally hit 4th down we attempted to kick a FG. BIG DIFFERENCE.
We got agressive and I wish Shurmur had done that last week as well and I have said if Colt had tossed an INT in that situation I would have been pissed but at Colt same as today and not at Shurmur for tying his hands.
Shurmur grew today as well as Colt. He tossed that pick and learned from it. If you dont ever give a player a chance to learn they wont.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
This is the problem with fandom. Too much second guessing and suppositions.
You mean like after 2 games, you coming back here after a long absence to grace us with your wisdom that McCoy will never be THE guy?
At that point, you lost me.. how after 2 games in a new system with young players, no OTAs, no Mini camps, new offensive system and a rookie HC,, you can honestly be straight faced when you tell us you think he's not THE guy
yes, fandom is fickle,, and sometimes, it's downright idiotic
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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About as idiotic as saying a QB throwing directly to a defender is the WRs fault...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
This is the problem with fandom. Too much second guessing and suppositions.
You mean like after 2 games, you coming back here after a long absence to grace us with your wisdom that McCoy will never be THE guy?
At that point, you lost me.. how after 2 games in a new system with young players, no OTAs, no Mini camps, new offensive system and a rookie HC,, you can honestly be straight faced when you tell us you think he's not THE guy
yes, fandom is fickle,, and sometimes, it's downright idiotic
Are you still on that idiotic train of thought? That I was swearing up and down that McCoy would never make it?
I never knew straddling the fence on every single subject gave someone the right to paint everyone else the color of absolutes......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Daman's typical post:
"You said something negative and are therefore stupid. "
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To be fair, a lot of people are like that.
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Actually, those of us with the ability to process complex thoughts can do both. It can both be on the line and Shurmur. The line doesn't block, but it is shurmur who kept calling 7 step drops against Houston even knowing that his line wasn't blocking their guys. What today showed was that when mcCoy gets nfl quality blocking and route running, he can succeed. And yes he did succeed today, he put up a game line that any nfl qb would be happy with against that d. And I would still fire one shurmur, either the hc or the oc/play caller.
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And yet, in spite of your professed word that you can process complex thoughts, you cannot seem to acknowledge that Shurmur deserves praise for his play-calling and schemes today, or that the INT exemplified why Shurmur wanted to play conservatively.
Fascinating......
And FYI.....Shurmur didn't call 7-step drops all day long. Either you're lying, or you're embellishing to try and justify your pitchfork......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So putting up 14-17p (let's pretend they give the FG to Phil, make it 17p) at home against a below AVG team is "succeeding"? You'll "succeed" your way to 10-12 losses every season if this is your sunday production Yet another case of apologists mixing up "not crapping his pants" with "succeeding"...you can NOT crap your pants (the INT moment qualifies though) and still not be near any good enough to "succeed" and that's what I saw today
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
So putting up 14-17p (let's pretend they give the FG to Phil, make it 17p) at home against a below AVG team is "succeeding"?
Complex thought at it's finest! 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
And yet, in spite of your professed word that you can process complex thoughts, you cannot seem to acknowledge that Shurmur deserves praise for his play-calling and schemes today, or that the INT exemplified why Shurmur wanted to play conservatively.
Fascinating......
And FYI.....Shurmur didn't call 7-step drops all day long. Either you're lying, or you're embellishing to try and justify your pitchfork......
Or, like a politician trying to hold his job, Shurmur is paying attention to the voters (the fans in this case) and opening up the playbook a bit - or Holmgren handed Shumur pages 3 and 4 of the playbook to use. Whatever it was, they seemingly added more offense friendly plays to the repertoire.
And whatever you want to say, the Jags D was top-notch and we put up more than 100 yds rushing on them and the passing seemed more effective.
The defense did the job (until the last drive) that they needed to do and then stiffened a bit when it came to the goal line stand again.
I'll give Shurmur props (yeah, you read that right) for opening up the selection of plays. It did seem to make a difference, but I wonder if that was because of the criticism that he was obviously getting from the media and the fans. Whatever you might say that the players and coaches don't pay attention to all that's written or said about them, but I don't think that's the case. When the criticism of the head coach are all being echoed by the fans, the media and those in the business of football, maybe it's a valid criticism and should be addressed.
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Or, Shurmur is slowly opening the playbook back up after simplifying it because McCoy and Co. weren't ready for it. As the QB goes, so goes the offense, so as McCoy is slowly starting to get a better understanding of the league, Shurmur is slowly opening the offense up for him.
It's no coincidence that early in the year McCoy looked afraid, confused, rattled, and downright bad. So Shurmur scaled back the offense. McCoy started to make some strides. Now Shurmur can open up the playbook more.
I don't believe this concept is beyond anyone around here.
Now as to your thought that the people in charge do listen to the voices....of course they do. Only the truly ignorant (literal term, not the insulting one) and naive would believe otherwise.
Just look at the Donks running a shaky spread-option with the second coming of the Virgin Mary running the offense.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Or, Shurmur is slowly opening the playbook back up after simplifying it because McCoy and Co. weren't ready for it. As the QB goes, so goes the offense, so as McCoy is slowly starting to get a better understanding of the league, Shurmur is slowly opening the offense up for him.
Oh, I don't know about that. Shurmur has been the one calling the plays and it was as predictable as night following day.
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It's no coincidence that early in the year McCoy looked afraid, confused, rattled, and downright bad. So Shurmur scaled back the offense. McCoy started to make some strides. Now Shurmur can open up the playbook more.
McCoy should have been afraid, confused and rattled. He was getting blitzed every down and the OL had more holes than they created, the receivers dropped more passes than they caught, and the RB situation made ICU at the hospital look healthy by comparison.
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I don't believe this concept is beyond anyone around here.
Neither do I. Not even you, judging by your change in your sig line.
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Now as to your thought that the people in charge do listen to the voices....of course they do. Only the truly ignorant (literal term, not the insulting one) and naive would believe otherwise.
Well, they should certainly hear the grumblings and it shouldn't bother them in most circumstances. But, when the criticism is almost universal, then there probably is something to it. I'm just saying.
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Just look at the Donks running a shaky spread-option with the second coming of the Virgin Mary running the offense.
Well, performing almost as many miracles. 
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Oh, I don't know about that. Shurmur has been the one calling the plays and it was as predictable as night following day.
When you gotta dumb the offense down, yes, this happens. Quote:
McCoy should have been afraid, confused and rattled. He was getting blitzed every down and the OL had more holes than they created, the receivers dropped more passes than they caught, and the RB situation made ICU at the hospital look healthy by comparison.
Same line.
Same receivers with the same drops.
Same RB's.
Same QB.
The difference? McCoy and Co. are starting to understand things better. It was too much for them at the start. It got simplified. They are starting to understand page 1 and 2, so now Shurmur can go to page 3 and 4. As soon as McCoy began to understand he has to throw before the receivers have turned and are staring at him, he started to be able to execute the offense. Little still isn't quite getting it, as he's learning how just to be an NFL receiver, let alone digest any specific system. The Oline hasn't been as bad as most have thought. McCoy has gotten out of some jams, but just like Frye used to do, he ran into nearly as many as he escaped from.
Getting back to the reason I opened this can'o'worms up again, Shurmur deserves some praise for what he did today, because that dumb INT by McCoy exemplified why what Pat did last week wasn't necessarily a bad decision. Yet here we are after a win, and I'm seeing virtually zero applause for the coach.
Can't say I'm shocked......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Want a quote that says it all about how Shurmur saw McCoy's play till today? http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/11/colt_mccoy_shrugs_off_pain_and.html"It feels to me like he's not reeling as much."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Or, like a politician trying to hold his job, Shurmur is paying attention to the voters (the fans in this case) and opening up the playbook a bit - or Holmgren handed Shumur pages 3 and 4 of the playbook to use. Whatever it was, they seemingly added more offense friendly plays to the repertoire.
And whatever you want to say, the Jags D was top-notch and we put up more than 100 yds rushing on them and the passing seemed more effective.
I'll give Shurmur props (yeah, you read that right) for opening up the selection of plays. It did seem to make a difference,
I don't think they had any , so I'll ask.
What more offensive friendly plays, or what selection of plays was opened up that they did not have and use vs the Raiders?
Maybe it has to do with the 100+ yds rushing you mentioned that made other things work out.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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When you gotta dumb the offense down, yes, this happens.
Or maybe it was simplified because of the capacity of the play caller. 
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Same line.
And your point? Lauvao is still crap and a penalty machine. Pinkston had a nice block on Ogbonnaya's TD run.
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Same receivers with the same drops.
Actually, Robiskie isn't on the team and he was about as productive today (inactive for Jax) as he had been for the Browns since they drafted him. Little was dropping the passes today.
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Same RB's.
Actually, this is a good point. Ogbonnaya has been the same RB for the past two games and in both, something was shown as improvement. Maybe Ogbonnaya is the answer at RB. 
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Same QB.
And a more open playbook and fewer runs up the middle on 1st down.
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The difference? McCoy and Co. are starting to understand things better.
Maybe Shurmur found out that his seat was getting a little too warm.
http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2011/10/cleveland_browns_am_links_is_p.html
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/35629/is-browns-shurmur-on-the-hot-seat
Many more from various sports blogs about it. Too numerous to list though.
As for the rest, it's just too tedious to respond to the same crap over and over again.
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I don't think they had any , so I'll ask.
What more offensive friendly plays, or what selection of plays was opened up that they did not have and use vs the Raiders?
Well, since you asked, we ran the ball more effectively. Also, the Raiders got more pressure into the pocket than Jax did.
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Maybe it has to do with the 100+ yds rushing you mentioned that made other things work out.
It doesn't hurt and maybe Hillis & Hardesty weren't the answer. I wouldn't play either of them much even when "healthy" unless Ogbonnaya actually gets injured and can't play. Otherwise, I'd keep him in there over either Hillis or Hardesty.
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Or maybe it was simplified because of the capacity of the play caller.
Which is an impossibility, since if that were his ceiling, he wouldn't be able to expand beyond it.
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And your point? Lauvao is still crap and a penalty machine. Pinkston had a nice block on Ogbonnaya's TD run.
If they are still crap, there'd be no possibility that they'd be getting better. Yet several weeks ago the offense was simplified and they started to get it last week. This week they played even better. So Shurmur is doing something right.
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Actually, Robiskie isn't on the team and he was about as productive today (inactive for Jax) as he had been for the Browns since they drafted him. Little was dropping the passes today.
And since he wasn't a part of the gameplan then, these receivers are the same guys as back then, with the exception of Norwood. Considering he contributed, the coaching staff must be doing something right.
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Actually, this is a good point. Ogbonnaya has been the same RB for the past two games and in both, something was shown as improvement. Maybe Ogbonnaya is the answer at RB.
Ugh. Oogy had a big game, but he lacks so many things that I'd be surprised if he was any higher than 3rd or 4th on next year's depth chart. He lacks shiftiness, vision, burst, and blocking prowess. He's basically William Green without the power but who can catch some.
If Oogy is the answer, I don't wanna know the question....
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Maybe Shurmur found out that his seat was getting a little too warm.
Doubt it. Walrus just installed a brand new defensive system AND an offensive system AND handed him a bad Oline and a green QB. The only people expecting much more than what we've seen had false expectations anyway.
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As for the rest, it's just too tedious to respond to the same crap over and over again.
Yet respond you did. And respond again, you will.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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William Green had vision and burst. Evidenced, he was 100% getting first downs when the Browns were backed up against their own endzone, inside the 5 yd line. This happened at least 4 times, I'm pretty sure more, in his couple years.
My memory, of William Green is of a better player than advertised, and than your reference would suggest.
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So putting up 14-17p (let's pretend they give the FG to Phil, make it 17p) at home against a below AVG team is "succeeding"? You'll "succeed" your way to 10-12 losses every season if this is your sunday production
This is the same defense that held the Steelers to 17, the Ravens to 7, Carolina to 16, Tennessee to 14... those are much better offenses than ours.. Heck the Ravens and Steelers are considered legit super bowl teams..
Nobody said our offense was a finished work yet, nobody said this is as good as we hope it gets, what people said is that it is looking a lot better than it did just a couple weeks ago.
yebat' Putin
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