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I think that we're going to fall into the steady progress column.
Our offense is incredibly vanilla. Pure West Coast 101 - we all heard Mayock use that phrase a hundred times on Thursday.... and the ONLY thing that makes sense with that is that our sole concern right now is to build a knowledge foundation with these guys.
We're teaching the entire team one of the most complicated offenses in existence, so it makes sense to start with the basics and keep it simple and add complexity only as the players show they are ready for it. This is purely a teaching year. Next year, everybody will hit the ground running in this offense and the offense SHOULD have a ton more talent with far fewer players needing to get up to speed on things, but those few players will have an entire team of guys that will be able to help them along... that is a dynamic that doesn't currently exist.
So like , did they tell that season ticket holders when they set them their bills ?
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lol, marketing departments would NEVER say anything like that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Just curious ! 
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Yeah, I hated the hire too ...... and I'm saying that we need to give the guy time to succeed or fail. (Unless he completely loses the team, ala Palmer)
Yeah, I can't say I was over-joyed by the hire. At this point in the season I think someone should buy him a cardigan for Christmas because we have Mr. Rogers for our HC. Vanilla doesn't even begin to describe the guy. Watching paint dry can often be as exciting as the Browns O and if applied by a professional, better looking.
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jc...
I'm going to say this again because it might add a little to the conversation and understanding the difference in the play of our offense.
Is there anyone on this board that believes Mike Holmgren was happy about the way the Browns game ended last week?
We saw mistakes and a clear lack of confidence by the Browns coaching staff that was evident to anyone watching last weeks game.
You think Holmgren noticed?
Shurmur refused to go for the throat and put the game away by throwing into the end zone. The Browns had 4 opportunities to score and Shurmur went conservative, running the ball against a goal line defense 3 straight times.
This talk of Shurmur not having enough confidence in McCoy to throw the ball??...I don't get where that is coming from because McCoy was having a good game up to that point...20-27 and no picks. The talk about McCoy throwing into double coverage...I don't buy it as a reason not to throw the ball in the red zone. In the coarse of every game, we see "all QBs" throw into double coverage...
Shurmur made a rookie HC mistake, playing "not to lose" rather than going for the throat. I have a feeling Shurmur and Holmgren had a talk about the way the Rams game ended and what we saw this week in the play calling was a direct result of that talk.
We may have seen our rookie HC grow up just a little yesterday.
Shurmer exudes ZERO leadership. he melts in key situations any time the game is on the line and NEVER EVER takes responsibility.
I think the game VS the Steelers takes the cake. it comes out McCoy was never properly evaluated for Concussion and Shurmer LIED. anyone could see the kid stretched out with the most viscous hit since Stingly was paralyzed by Tatem. So why did he send out an unchecked concussed player and Lie about it? Did he really think this player gave him the best chance to win or yet another scapegoat.
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Did he really think this player gave him the best chance to win or yet another scapegoat.
wait, you think Shurmur purposely sent Colt back onto the field so that we would lose the game and Pat could blame him for the loss? really?
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I don't think that Shurmur sent Colt into the game knowing he was seriously concussed and wouldn't be able to execute the plays effectively. But, I do think it says something about him being able to handle the personnel and playcalling while being the head coach to not know that he had a head injury. You didn't need slow motion to understand that.
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But, I do think it says something about him being able to handle the personnel and playcalling while being the head coach to not know that he had a head injury. You didn't need slow motion to understand that.
Name one time when a head coach left the sidelines during play to tend to a hurt player. Even if he wasn't calling the plays, to think he would abandon the sidelines to tend to an injured player is nonsense. No HC does it, or should they. There is a medical staff for a reason.
People who think Shurmur intentionally sent him in hurt are fools, along with those who think some big conspiracy is going on.
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I'm not saying he should have left the sidelines. He had to be watching Colt on the play where he got hit and then laid motionless on the ground for a period of time. Then, as he pointed out, there was a timeout. If he can't figure out that Colt probably has a head injury because there's too much going on, then it looks like he's in over his head.
And no, I don't think there's any conspiracy or that Shurmur sent him in to fail or be further injured.
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And no, I don't think there's any conspiracy or that Shurmur sent him in to fail or be further injured.
That part was not intended for you.
My point is, you have a medical staff, and you have faith in them. Shurmur did what any other coach would do. He trusted those who handle that type of situation. If anything, Holmgren should be handling this situation not Shurmur. He was doing his job, and someone else might have failed to do theirs. Shurmur is taking the heat, when he is the wrong target. I commend him for that. He could easily have thrown someone under the bus.
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good point. In the press conference yesterday on the main site, the reporters were asking Shurmur if they would be able to speak with someone from the medical staff... as if Shurmur would be the one to give them permission.
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I'm not sold on Shurmur as a HC yet, but I will say one thing about him, he is a stand up guy. When joe claims he "NEVER EVER" takes the blame, that is hogwash.
Question his coaching, I'll understand, but his integrity should not be questioned.
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Did he really think this player gave him the best chance to win or yet another scapegoat.
wait, you think Shurmur purposely sent Colt back onto the field so that we would lose the game and Pat could blame him for the loss? really?
No I am wondering why a HC would say he was checked for concussion, days later the team president say he wasn't. I was conjecturing he was lying and holmgren seems to back that feeling by taking the opposite stance. I do know this guy has dubious decision making at crunch time in games. Why would he say he was not sending in a concussed player? days later then Holmgren says the player was not even checked. who knows what the truth is yet someone is feeding the press and fans a line. McCoys father was livid as his sons health was on the line.
In the end has shurmer ever taken responsibility for his flubbed calls, even the mind numbing stupid te run vs the rams. What he did with McCoy is at best extremely incautious, why would he say McCoy was checked and Holmgren say he was not for concussion? I have no idea what goes through this Coach's mind at crunch time yet see as by what transpires on the field,it has rarely EVER been good.
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And no, I don't think there's any conspiracy or that Shurmur sent him in to fail or be further injured.
That part was not intended for you.
My point is, you have a medical staff, and you have faith in them. Shurmur did what any other coach would do. He trusted those who handle that type of situation. If anything, Holmgren should be handling this situation not Shurmur. He was doing his job, and someone else might have failed to do theirs. Shurmur is taking the heat, when he is the wrong target. I commend him for that. He could easily have thrown someone under the bus.
The point is YOU made my question Your conclusion. My point is who know what this coach is doing. I think he is over his head. i think he makes dubious calls in crunch time and he hates being questioned by the press. My point is underlined when Holmgren gives a press conference and says the stagg DID NOT CHECK FOR CONCUSSION when Shurmer said otherwise. Shurmer Chose not to attend. they gave opposite statements.
Again, Holmgrens press conference underlines the cover your ass mentality of Shurmer. Why he sent a player out back into a game who had been laid out with a violent hit plays later after saying he was checked for concussion. The QBs father rants his son could have been critically hurt had he sustained another blow. Why the team president now says no one saw the violent hit and Colt was not checked. thats ok if such circular logic is fine with you, I think it stinks.
I made the statement because I wondered out loud what this coach was thinking because it was obvious he was not telling the truth.
he is not a leader i would want. take a poll and see how many would choose the previous coaching staff over the one we now have. defend Shurmer if you like. that is your reality.
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and shurmur never said he was checked for a concussion. he said that he went out, the trainers checked him, and the trainers gave him the okay to put him back in the game.
it was a communication issue as the training staff only checked his hand after not seeing the hit take place as Holmgren described.
now, do I think Shurmur should have made sure that he was checked for a concussion? yes, the failure of the system definitely his him too. he's just not plotting some grand conspiracy or purposefully lying to everyone as you try to make him out to be.
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and shurmur never said he was checked for a concussion. he said that he went out, the trainers checked him, and the trainers gave him the okay to put him back in the game.
it was a communication issue as the training staff only checked his hand after not seeing the hit take place as Holmgren described.
now, do I think Shurmur should have made sure that he was checked for a concussion? yes, the failure of the system definitely his him too. he's just not plotting some grand conspiracy or purposefully lying to everyone as you try to make him out to be.
ASked whether Colt Mcoy was checked for concussion Shurmer said yeh we go through strict protocol to check for symptoms.
S: I was told Colt could go back in.
Reporters: You think he should have went back in.
S: yes we follow the guidelines strictly( guidelines for concussion, Shurmer alludes he was checked by the staff for concussion and cleared to go and it was safe because all guidelines were followed.
It was then Shurmur admitted Colt showed the symptoms later yet he defended his medical staff and said all guidelines were followed. don't read the transcript Listen to Shurmer on 12/9.
To later backtrack as Holmgren did I will expect a reprimand from the NFL or a fine to the Browns. Either McCoy was checked or he wasn't, you can't follow guidelines for checking for concussion and then days later admit he was never checked.
That is why the NFL is looking deeper into it.
Lets see how it comes out.
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The NFL has finished their investigation.
The NFLPA is still looking into it, but that is to be expected, knowing how those cats operate.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Just wanted to chime back in here. The Big Shurm needs to go. The playcalling is costing us games and costing us the opportunity to accurately evaluate anyone on the offense. Shurms is in way over his head.
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This is my 3rd time saying this.. but I lost all respect for this dude for playing for overtime.. 
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I certainly agree with this. What in the world was that playcalling at the end of the game??????? I feel that they need to have Mr. Whipple take over as head coach. 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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This is my 3rd time saying this.. but I lost all respect for this dude for playing for overtime..
I didn't have a problem with that at all.
In the 4th, they were blitzing at will and our O-line had no answers. We were at our 10 with 1 minute left, and they were killing our backfield.
But hey, whatever floats your boat.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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This is my 3rd time saying this.. but I lost all respect for this dude for playing for overtime..
Completely agree. 1:10 to go and we gave up to try and get into OT.
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This is my 3rd time saying this.. but I lost all respect for this dude for playing for overtime..
But....but... he's a first time head coach with a QB that can't play (Seneca Wallace).
Shurmur has the football smarts of a brick.
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This is my 3rd time saying this.. but I lost all respect for this dude for playing for overtime..
I didn't have a problem with that at all.
In the 4th, they were blitzing at will and our O-line had no answers. We were at our 10 with 1 minute left, and they were killing our backfield.
But hey, whatever floats your boat.
The Browns were very lucky not to lose that in regulation. Running the ball when Arizona had those timeouts and could force a punt and then Wallace throws the ball out of bounds stopping the clock without forcing them to use that last time out. Thank God Maynard got a tremendous punt off!
Then in OT, you punt into the field of play so that Peterson could return it? WTF!!
They were already in FG position before the long throw to Fitzgerald. That just made it a chip shot.
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Hey, if you say so.
Players play, coaches coach. I'm rather sure Shurmur wasn't shaking his head after Wallace threw it out of bounds because he was mad at himself. 
I've said my peace about it. We were doing squat in the 4th against their blitz. No play-calling could counteract that. Playing for the win with 1 minute left at our own 10 is a very high-risk decision. So he went conservative and played for overtime, hoping he could get the ball, which he did.
I say he did the right thing given the situation. I know those that don't care for him will use it as ammo, but that's not my concern. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Shurmur has the football smarts of a brick.
"He's a good man and he's going to be head coach here for a long time." -- Mike Holmgren
Basically, we're screwed.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I've said my peace about it. We were doing squat in the 4th against their blitz. No play-calling could counteract that. Playing for the win with 1 minute left at our own 10 is a very high-risk decision. So he went conservative and played for overtime, hoping he could get the ball, which he did.
And how exactly would overtime change our play against their blitz, simply because it wasn't the 4th quarter anymore, they would turn back into pumpkins?
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Hey, if you say so.
Finally, you recognize my brilliance. And yes, I do say so.
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Players play, coaches coach. I'm rather sure Shurmur wasn't shaking his head after Wallace threw it out of bounds because he was mad at himself.
Shurmur is the one calling the plays. If you were going to run the ball the first two plays and force Arizona to burn their time outs, then you run the ball on third down and force them to use their last one. Nope, he calls a pass play. Any incomplete pass results in the Cardinals having a timeout left.
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I've said my peace about it. We were doing squat in the 4th against their blitz. No play-calling could counteract that.
The quick pass stops that.
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Playing for the win with 1 minute left at our own 10 is a very high-risk decision.
Playing for OT would have been smart. Getting a 1st down assures that. Running the ball with a minute left and the Cardinals with 3 timeouts is just stupid, but once you had them burning those time outs, you don't call a pass play and give them an opportunity to have that final time out available. You force them to burn it an then punt the ball. You take away the ability of them to throw the ball across the middle. You force them to the sidelines.
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So he went conservative and played for overtime, hoping he could get the ball, which he did.
But he didn't play for OT. He played to give the Cardinals the ball to end regulation... and to do so with a timeout to use.
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I say he did the right thing given the situation. I know those that don't care for him will use it as ammo, but that's not my concern.
And I completely disagree.
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Shurmur has the football smarts of a brick.
"He's a good man and he's going to be head coach here for a long time." -- Mike Holmgren
Basically, we're screwed.
That sums it up pretty well.
I don't think that Shurmur deserves a second year but I'm sure Holmgren will give him the confidence nod.
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I've said my peace about it. We were doing squat in the 4th against their blitz. No play-calling could counteract that. Playing for the win with 1 minute left at our own 10 is a very high-risk decision. So he went conservative and played for overtime, hoping he could get the ball, which he did.
And how exactly would overtime change our play against their blitz, simply because it wasn't the 4th quarter anymore, they would turn back into pumpkins?
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Mike Holmgren: "5 wins is not enough." He said this about Mangini after a tougher schedule.
Um, HELLO MIKE?
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Give it up. He's not coming back.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Give it up. He's not coming back.
I don't want Mangini back. I want Shurmur gone. It's only fair.
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Two things here....
Who told you life was fair?
Shurmur is not going anywhere. MH already said as much.
So, again, I say. Give it up. He's not coming back.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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craz...I too thought Holmgren answered the question concerning Shurmur's future as the Browns HC in his presser last week...
...guess some missed it.
What we could be talking about is how different Shurmur's role might be next season compared to this season.
If the Browns bring in a OC, will the OC be calling the plays or Shurmur?
Will the OC be allowed to expand upon Shurmur's playbook...I hope so !
Shurmur's role responsibilities and his as HC might be considerably different next season.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Two things here....
Who told you life was fair?
Shurmur is not going anywhere. MH already said as much.
So, again, I say. Give it up. He's not coming back.
I never said I want Mangini back.
I said the precedent was set: 5 wins is not good enough, so why is 4 suddenly good enough?
Holmgren is a liar and a shady piece of garbage. I can see right through him. While ya'll want to focus on the media asking him antagonizing questions, the fact of the matter is they have him cornered.
If I were in the media I would LOVE to ask him this question: "Last year you said, AND I QUOTE "5 wins is not good enough" and the coach lost his job. Why did you decide to retain Pat Shurmur this season despite a worse record against a much softer schedule with a more talented roster?"
Last edited by Ammo; 12/19/11 09:27 AM.
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Two things here....
Who told you life was fair?
Shurmur is not going anywhere. MH already said as much.
So, again, I say. Give it up. He's not coming back.
I never said I want Mangini back.
I said the precedent was set: 5 wins is not good enough, so why is 4 suddenly good enough?
Holmgren is a liar and a shady piece of garbage. I can see right through him. While ya'll want to focus on the media asking him antagonizing questions, the fact of the matter is they have him cornered.
If I were in the media I would LOVE to ask him this question: "Last year you said, AND I QUOTE "5 wins is not good enough" and the coach lost his job. Why did you decide to retain Pat Shurmur this season despite a worse record against a much softer schedule with a more talented roster?"
The entire line of thinking that Shurmur should or will get fired after his first year as a HC is ridiculous. It's not going to happen and it shouldn't.,
This generation that some of you belong to that demands instant gratification just doesn't have a clue.
it used to be that when deciding a persons future, everything was taken into consideration.. Apparently nowadays, that's not the case.
As for your question.. Even Mangini got more than one year from Holmgren and he wasn't even a Holmgren guy. So, why would you expect anything different than that when it IS a Holmgren guy.
Since you like to selectively use Holmgrens words, then try this on,, One year isn't enough time for a HC..... (paraphrasing)
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Honestly, Shurmur looks like the best coach we have had here in a long time. I've really not seen the poor game\time management issues that has plagued us in the past.
I do not fault his playcalls at the end of regulation. You play it safe there and get the ball in OT. And it worked. And we had better field position- and they opened the offense up again. What can be faulted here??
Thank goodness they didn't screw up and actually win this thing. Like 5-11 is so much better then 4-12. I'll take 4-12 and the number 5 pick at worst over a meaningless win and dropped down 5 or 6 more slots.
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Two things here....
Who told you life was fair?
Shurmur is not going anywhere. MH already said as much.
So, again, I say. Give it up. He's not coming back.
I never said I want Mangini back.
I said the precedent was set: 5 wins is not good enough, so why is 4 suddenly good enough?
Holmgren is a liar and a shady piece of garbage. I can see right through him. While ya'll want to focus on the media asking him antagonizing questions, the fact of the matter is they have him cornered.
If I were in the media I would LOVE to ask him this question: "Last year you said, AND I QUOTE "5 wins is not good enough" and the coach lost his job. Why did you decide to retain Pat Shurmur this season despite a worse record against a much softer schedule with a more talented roster?"
ammo...you are better than this...
You can claim this is not about Mangini being fired...but it's so obvious that you are still hurting over the Mangini firing and will take every opportunity to dump on Holmgren for firing him.
...Mangini is gone and it's no one's fault but Mangini's.
...time to let it go..
...you are better than this..."come on man" 
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
Quote:
Two things here....
Who told you life was fair?
Shurmur is not going anywhere. MH already said as much.
So, again, I say. Give it up. He's not coming back.
I never said I want Mangini back.
I said the precedent was set: 5 wins is not good enough, so why is 4 suddenly good enough?
Holmgren is a liar and a shady piece of garbage. I can see right through him. While ya'll want to focus on the media asking him antagonizing questions, the fact of the matter is they have him cornered.
If I were in the media I would LOVE to ask him this question: "Last year you said, AND I QUOTE "5 wins is not good enough" and the coach lost his job. Why did you decide to retain Pat Shurmur this season despite a worse record against a much softer schedule with a more talented roster?"
Actually Holmgren is not a liar, he gave Mangini a second year he didn't have to. So Shurmur will definitely get another year to show improvement.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Official Fire Shurmur Thread
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