|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32
Dawg Talker
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
So I'm already giving this MNF game to GB. Updated draft order after Week 10:  Just think, we're a 6-3 suck fest victory over Seattle from owning the #2 pick!
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
nice work the chart I like it but once we get done playing pitt and balt our SOS is going to jump alot.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
Super chart man...Time to watch it hard...
We need Miami to keep winning...And even more important St. Louis and Carolina to keep losing...We need one of those 2 in the 2 spot...Both of them would trade down so we could get a Barkley...Miami won't...
Worst possible scenario is Indy/Miami 1-2...
It would be REAL interesting to see if Indy would bite on our package if we ended up 4 or 5...They could end up with Barkley or Jones...We end up with a lil 'Luck" for once...And ANYONE who says don't give our 2 First's and our 2012 First to do it is blinded...
Go Browns!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6 |
I would not give up 2 firsts to move up to take Luck. I honestly think Jones could push him for that #1 spot, just the type that is gonna wow everyone when he has his workouts. Hell Barkley is probably better than both of them and imho Tannehill has the highest ceiling of the group.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
I think we finish in the 2-3 spot by year's end. We're probably not going to win another game this year. Maybe Arizona. Four wins, max.
I think Atlanta finishes 9-7, so that's probably in the high teens, I'd guess.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
can you please stop with the Tannehill. just say no to Tannehill.
most recent outing he had Gray running rampant on K-State and still could only manage a 4.6YPA. that is against a college defense that was soley worrying about stopping Gray (and failling as he had a 7.3YPC).
Tannehill recent stats. The last number is the YPC of A&M in that game.
Iowa State 24/43 263yds 2TDs 0Int 6.11YPA (5.3YPC - in large part to Tannehill's sacks. Michael 7.9YPC / Gray 6.0YPC)
Mizzou 35/53 317yds 3TDs 1Int 5.98YPA (4.0YPC)
Oklahoma 32/63 379yds 2TDs 3Ints 6.0YPA (5.1YPC)
KState 27/46 210yds 3TDs 1Int 4.6YPA (6.3YPC)
Yes, he shredded SMU, Idaho, and Baylor. But, outside of the above he also struggled against OkieState and Arkansas. He was a non-factor in the TxTech game (not good or bad).
All of this coming with one of the nations best team running games.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Quote:
I think we finish in the 2-3 spot by year's end.
We want Barkley! *clap clap clap clap clap*
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
I think we finish in the 2-3 spot by year's end.
We want Barkley! *clap clap clap clap clap*
First, I think the proper way of doing that is *clap clap* *clapclapclap* to indicate cadence (Clem might have to rule on that one though).
Second, well, he's better than Tannehill 
I'm torn on Barkely. I see a guy who has great touch on alot of his throws and seemingly good accuracy. But, I also see a guy with a below average arm whose WRs are much more open than most other teams when I see them.
I like the idea of Barkely and I like alot of what I have seen from him this season, but I'm still a little hesitant. I definitely want to see how he deals with Oregon's speedy DEs and aggressive CBs this weekend. That should be a good test.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,579 Likes: 815
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,579 Likes: 815 |
We'll see on Barkley.....he looks too much like a Clawson for me to get very excited.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Quote:
I think we finish in the 2-3 spot by year's end.
We want Barkley! *clap clap clap clap clap*
If you're driving the Barkley bandwagon, I'm riding shotgun.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Quote:
whose WRs are much more open than most other teams when I see them.
There's concerns with Barkley, yeah. There's concerns with every Quarterback, but this part isn't true.
No one throws to more wide open receivers than Andrew Luck.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6 |
There is a reason the phrase :Stats are for losers" keeps coming up. QB keeps hitting the receivers in the hands and they keep dropping them, stats tend to get skewed a bit. Just like Dalton keeps making horrible throws and Green makes the great play to bail him out. Woo hoo Dalton is Great we should have drafted Dalton lol
tannehill has had fantastic games that have came out rather ordinary at best on the stat sheet because Fuller can't catch a cold and Swope hasn't been the same since his concussion. The only bad game Tannehill has had was the Oklahoma game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
If we draft any QB in this class not named Luck I'm going to vomit.
Colt is better than every QB in this class except for Luck IMO.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Watch the games, Luck isn't as good as advertised.
Luck is a good prospect, but the media has driven his stock up so much.
I've pointed out the negatives in Luck, and others have agreed, including Phil Simms who probably knows a thing or two about playing Quarterback.
No way I trade up for Luck when I can stay where I'm at, grab Barkley, and a WR to pair him with.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,984 Likes: 361
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,984 Likes: 361 |
McCoy would be lucky to be considered better than more than any of the QBs in this class IMO. (rounds 1-3)
McCoy has already been exposed. He's got major, major flaws in his game. They may not be correctable.
With the other guys you have hope. In some cases (most?) you have superior physical ability and/or accuracy to go with that hope. McCoy has shown an inability to make all of the NFL throws, and horrible accuracy. (and by that I mean placement of throws, hitting receivers in stride, not leading receivers into devastating hits, etc.) and an unwillingness to attack a defense down the field.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you can find a QB anywhere who can complete 56% of his passes in the 3-7 yard range. That's not what makes an NFL QB. It's the ability to stand up against pressure and make great decisions and throws .......making the "hard" throws ...... into small windows .... into coverages ...... to the outside ...... over the LB and in front of the DBs ....... throws that hit receivers in stride so they can run with the ball at full speed .. and so on that are missing from McCoy's bag of tricks.
Without these, McCoy will be nothing but a "promising backup", who will shine in preseason against generic defenses ...... and who will struggle when the real games start.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
Barkley and Floyd would be ridiculous.
I'm the furthest thing from an ND fan, but Michael Floyd and Manti Te'o would be two players I'd love to have.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
I can't say I've watched every minute of every game he's played this year, but I've seen most of them.
He's the best QB prospect I've ever seen. I'm not saying he doesn't have some question marks but so did Peyton Manning. Nothing in the draft is ever 100% but he's pretty close. Don't let the crap performance by the rest of his team against Oregon skew his true talent level.
All that being said I think it's a moot point because I think Indy is drafting him #1 and we won't have a chance at him anyway. In that event, I don't want us to draft a QB at all! If it's not an upgrade then why spend the resources? I don't view Barkley, Jones, Tannehill, Griffin etc etc as being any better than Colt.
It goes back to my argument that in order to be a successful NFL team you either need a good/average QB with an elite team around him OR you need an ELITE QB (top 5-10 in NFL elite). Colt will never be in that second group but I don't think any QB in this draft outside of Luck will be either.
So might as well go get that stud WR (or two), fix RT and then continue building the defense with a DE, LB and CB. Round out the draft with a late round OG and call it a draft.
If no Luck then maybe the extra weapons and bringing in an O-Coord. will help Colt develop some. Otherwise we can try again in 2013 to finally get an elite QB via FA/trade or the next draft.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
I don't see Luck as that much better than Barkley and Jones.
I don't want anyone outside of the Top 3. I'm not on Tannehill at all.
Luck, Barkley, and Jones are all VERY close.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
Oh believe me Ytown, you don't have to sell me on the inadequacies of Colt. I think he's Charlie Frye for crying out loud. He'll make a great NFL backup somewhere IMO.
I'm just not enamored with ANY QBs in this class outside of Luck enough to spend a 1st rounder on them.
It's why I'd have 0 problem trading the draft to go get Luck. It's also why if we can't...then we might as well just roll with Colt for one more year and get him some weapons and roll the dice again next year IMO.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
There is a reason the phrase :Stats are for losers" keeps coming up. QB keeps hitting the receivers in the hands and they keep dropping them, stats tend to get skewed a bit. Just like Dalton keeps making horrible throws and Green makes the great play to bail him out. Woo hoo Dalton is Great we should have drafted Dalton lol
tannehill has had fantastic games that have came out rather ordinary at best on the stat sheet because Fuller can't catch a cold and Swope hasn't been the same since his concussion. The only bad game Tannehill has had was the Oklahoma game.
not when stats back up what you see when you watch the games.
look at that YPA. it's terrible. and, I really can't stress this enough, it's with a fantastic running game. opponents scheme to stop Michael&Gray, not Tannehill.
but, then again, if you are saying he did not play a bad game against Okie State (a game in which he threw 3 INTs to let them back into the game with his final one sealing the victory for them), then I cannot discuss him with you because you are not being rational.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,128 Likes: 134
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,128 Likes: 134 |
What's the difference Ytown.. even if we somehow find outselves in a position to draft Luck and he starts next season.. 4 to 8 games in, someone will say one of the following things: He throws off his back foot His hands are too small He's not tall enough He's too tall He's not mobile enough for the WCO He's so mobile he thinks run first instead of pass He's too fat He's too skinny He's ugly and his mother dresses him funny His feet are too small His feet are too big We've seen his ceiling He's got room for growth He's smart He's dumb He's got an ugly girlfriend His girlfriend is model quality And that's if we draft Luck.. if we draft anyone else to start at QB, those things will begin being said after 2 starts 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
I like how of all that you named, you didn't name any of his actual flaws
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,750 Likes: 396
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,750 Likes: 396 |
Deep, Toad ... what's your opinion on Luck?
I don't watch much college ball, but I've tried to tune in to some Stanford games to see what all of the hype is about.
I see a good QB. I don't see the best QB since Elway/Manning. Not even close.
I'd love to get some tape on old Elway/Manning college games.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
The more I watch Luck the more I agree with your post.
Great QB prospect? Yes. But I don't think he is the surefire franchise QB some think he is anymore. He really struggled in that Oregon game.
I'd say Luck and Barkley are 1 and 1a right now. I'd be happy with either, but I don't think we will have a shot at them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
nice work the chart I like it but once we get done playing pitt and balt our SOS is going to jump alot.
But our victory total won't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
If we draft any QB in this class not named Luck I'm going to vomit.
Colt is better than every QB in this class except for Luck IMO.
IMO, Colt is better than every QB in this class.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Quote:
If we draft any QB in this class not named Luck I'm going to vomit.
Colt is better than every QB in this class except for Luck IMO.
IMO, Colt is better than every QB in this class.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
McCoy has already been exposed. He's got major, major flaws in his game. They may not be correctable.
Any QB would be exposed behind this OL. Major flaws? You mean, like the coaching staff? The coaching staff is replaceable, therefore correctable.
Quote:
With the other guys you have hope. In some cases (most?) you have superior physical ability and/or accuracy to go with that hope. McCoy has shown an inability to make all of the NFL throws, and horrible accuracy. (and by that I mean placement of throws, hitting receivers in stride, not leading receivers into devastating hits, etc.) and an unwillingness to attack a defense down the field.
Horrible accuracy? 20 of 27 is rather accurate in my book. He's not Aaron Rodgers, but there's not a QB in the league (including Tom Brady, Ben Raplisberger, or anyone else) that compares with Aaron Rodgers.
He's better than a lot of other starting QBs in the league. He just happens to be a on team with few offensive weapons and a coaching staff that ain't worth a damn.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,125 Likes: 222
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,125 Likes: 222 |
j/c
I think/hope we go after Matt Flynn and let him battle it out with Colt. Worst case scenario is we have a young, somewhat-capable backup. Trade Wallace if we can.
We need every pick we can get in the top 100 or so...shoot...we need every draft pick we can keep / muster up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
I see a good QB. I don't see the best QB since Elway/Manning. Not even close.
I'd love to get some tape on old Elway/Manning college games.
i guess just like with Luck it would depend on which games you watched. Elway never once led Stanford to a bowl game and finished with a sub .500 record in college... In Mannings senior year, he lost to Florida 33-20 and never was able to beat them, he threw 2 picks and had one returned for a TD..
So you can say "not even close" but you can't really ignore what Elway and Manning did in the NFL, you can try but you can't do it.
Luck shows pretty much everything those guys showed but his NFL career is still an unknown... If Luck becomes as good as advertised, 15 years from now some other great QB prospect will come along and people will say, "He's no Luck, I just don't see it." 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,750 Likes: 396
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,750 Likes: 396 |
Quote:
So you can say "not even close" but you can't really ignore what Elway and Manning did in the NFL, you can try but you can't do it.
By saying not even close I am basing everything on how Elway and Manning performed in the NFL and assuming they performed similarly in college. Like I said, I don't watch much college football. This is also the reason I said I would love to see some old college football games of Elway/Manning to see how they looked compared to Luck.
I admit I don't really know exactly what to watch for with Luck to determine if he is what everyone is making him out to be. But what I do see is a solid QB but nothing that jumps off the screen and dazzles me. Nothing that says he is going to be great. And again, I might not recognize it if I saw it any way.
That's why if anyone who watches a lot of college football wants to chime in with their takes, I'd appreciate it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
j/c
I'm on the Justin Blackmon bandwagon big time. I'm not as in love with the QBs in this class as some of you are (though several of them look like they're going to be very good). But, I just see Blackmon as a surefire stud.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
j/c
I'm on the Justin Blackmon bandwagon big time. I'm not as in love with the QBs in this class as some of you are (though several of them look like they're going to be very good). But, I just see Blackmon as a surefire stud.
JMHO
Not sure if we are the only two, but I'm on that bandwagon as well, in large part because I see us getting the 3rd or 4th QB in the draft and that's not good enough.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
it's going to be a hefty bandwagon. might want to stock the coolers with beer now.
especially if we sign Flynn in FA (so we would not likely be drafting a QB in the 1st round).
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Maybe we get Blackmon in the 1st, then Weeden later in the draft. Instant chemistry!
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Quote:
Maybe we get Blackmon in the 1st, then Weeden later in the draft. Instant chemistry!
But Weeden will be a top 10 pick. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
I think/hope we go after Matt Flynn and let him battle it out with Colt.
If Luck and Barkley are not available and it is determined that Colt is not the answer, then this is the route I'd like to see us go.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
I'd still take Jones.
I like all 3 of the top QB's.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,128 Likes: 134
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,128 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
I like how of all that you named, you didn't name any of his actual flaws
LOL does it matter.. it was an illustration of the absurd things that will be said about whichever QB we draft.. in case you didn't catch that part..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and Draft Order Part II
|
|
