DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk K-9 Consensus Abortion

I know this is a sensitive subject but I am curious to see what the opinions are here on the board. There are plenty of reasons for a stance such as women's rights, faith reasons etc. that I don't want to get into for the sake of the question but feel free to expound the reason you voted why you did in the replies.

What is your stance regarding abortions? single choice
	I do not believe that abortion should be legal for any reason.
	I believe that abortions should only be performed for special instances i.e. rape, incest, medical issues that endanger the mother.
	I believe that abortions should only be able to be performed in the first trimester.
	I believe that abortions should only be able to be performed in the first two trimesters, as the law states today.
	I believe that abortions should be able to be performed at any point in a woman's pregnancy.
Votes accepted starting: 12/07/11 08:09 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

It's not right for me, then again I'm not the one who has to carry and birth a baby so my perspective is a bit on the outside looking in. I don't want to impose my values on anyone else and it is the law of the land and has been for some time. Who am I to say what is and isn't right for someone else?

At this point in the timeline of our country's history, it shouldn't be a make or break issue as it's relative importance on our society today is minimal. Least we forget we are a free people and some times that freedom allows us to do things others will see as a sacred cow or a hallowed line that shouldn't be crossed. As long as the law supports it, I am not going to assume I know what's best for someone else.

However I didn't vote in the poll as there was no option for "It's legal, let it go already".

My personal belief is that it should never happen.

I can see special circumstances, like rape, incest, and if the LIFE of the mother is at risk. ("Health of the mother" is too wide open to interpretation)

I would definitely support banning abortion on demand, and as birth control. I am somewhat OK with the morning after pill, probably because no one knows for certain whether someone is pregnant the next morning without a test. If Ohio out a sensible abortion law on the ballot, that eliminated all of the idiotic side measures that always seem to accompany such a bill, I would support it. I think that I would want to see the rape/incest exemptions, but only if someone is charged with the crime. It would be too easy for someone to claim rape if they wanted an abortion otherwise.

Two things:

1. I wish we would have a "space race" to find an effective on/off switch for fertility. I'm certain that we'll have this in the next few decades and abortions will be looked at with disgust by future generations. In effect the birth state will be set to off starting as a child only to be turned on once the woman is of adult age with the intention to have a child.

2. It is strange to me that the liberals in this country espouse science!!! at every opportunity except abortion. Obviously life begins at conception. It's scientific fact. But that doesn't mean that many of those opposed to abortion try to wiggle out of that fact by claiming otherwise.

I chose option 2 as well. It should not be a means of birth control IMO. But there are so many instances where a baby is not conceived out of love by the mother and father that I understand why it exists. That's the reasoning behind wanting to find an on/off scientific solution to this conundrum.

As time has gone on, I've come to find that I have no strong opinion on abortion one way or the other.

I see both sides.

I do wonder how one who wants it to be illegal would deal with that, in a legal sense. Do you send a woman to prison for having an abortion?

I also feel that if you're against abortion, you should be against war of any sort. I can't tell you how many folks on here will say that abortion is wrong and immoral and should be illegal, but in the next breath will excuse away innocent casualties as just 'an unfortunate part of war'.

I think a persons view on Abortion usually is dicated on when they view the beginning of a life.

I don't think life nessecarily begins at the exact moment a woman is pregnant.

But I also believe that it does begin BEFORE the child is actually born.

The exceptions (rape, incest, etc) are an obvious allowance.

With the amount of people in the world that physically cannot have children themselves, It seems unfair.

IMO it's almost a case by case basis on weather I would deem Abortion "right" or "wrong"

Someone is raped? Perfectly exceptable.

Teenagers didn't use protection? It's not a get out of responsabilities card...

I believe life begins at conception, and that abortion should be illegal except when giving birth would result in a serious threat to the life of the mother, or if the unborn child is shown to have a serious defect.

It's not my intent to get into a debate with you so hopefully this will end it.

I was trying my hand at a Reductio ad absurdum attempt and I didn't do a very good job.

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To answer your question it would probably entail a new charge. The small collection of cells is not a living breathing human being at that point but it is certainly on its way to becoming that.

I don't understand people that don't believe that life starts at conception and have debated it before. It simply doesn't make sense to point to a moment in the course of a pregnancy and say that's where life begins...because it would mean that it wasn't alive or life did not begin 20 seconds before that.

I wrote a paper on abortion my freshman year at Miami University that was used the following year for the freshman class. It was a look at what actually happens during an abortion from a clinical perspective. I'm of the opinion that most people do not know or choose not to know what actually occurs during the procedure. If more people knew, it would not be debated as simply a pro life v. pro choice issue.

Lastly as technology advances we'll have the ability to view the pregnancy like never before. I have a daughter and the ultrasounds that we watched at 3 months were nothing short of extraordinary. I can't imagine seeing that, then choosing to end the pregnancy.

Finally I am not a religious person although I would like to spend time contemplating that. Just thought people should know that my faith or lack of it is not coloring my views here either way.

Fellow Miami alum, eh?

Like I said, I have no opinion one way or the other. I find hypocrisy on both sides of the fence.

At the end of the day, I don't know how you punish such an act.

Also, you don't want to get in a debate in an abortion thread?

i've made my thoughts on this manner pretty crystal clear in the past.

basically, this all comes down to when you believe life begins. it is a gray area. some believe it doesn't happen until you are born regardless of what week it is in; some believe it happens at conception.

i will say this, i firmly believe that the Roe v. Wade decision should be revisited by the Supreme Court to better define where we as a country believe life begins. there have been countless scientific breakthrough's since the 1970s that give us a much better understanding of the life-process.

j/c

I don't know how anyone can justify abortion being "ok" if it's because of rape, incest, or the health of the mother is in danger.

The argument against abortion is that it's murder. You're taking a life. So at what point does the mother's life (or the circumstances) become more important than the baby?

If it's because of rape or incest, it's not the baby's fault. Yet it's "ok" to abort that baby because the father is a scumbag?

I understand that call from a doctor's point of view.

I just don't know how someone can say "abortion is murder, except when..." "The baby's life is sacrosanct, except..."

fair enough. personally, i am the same way. i believe that life begins at conception and therefore it is wrong to abort at any time.

however, i also understand that many people do not believe that is when life begins. therefore, i propose that the scientific evidence that we have obtained be brought to the supreme court and we decide on the line as a society. i will not be fully happy with the outcome, but it will be better than it is now.

I'm on a different line of thought in that I think abortion is a "non-issue." I know there are vehement disagreements with that, but I just think that, considering the rest of the problems with this country, abortions are a "minor" issue, IMO (and only my opinion).

And, to me, the better way to approach this isn't through just making abortions illegal. It's to educate people so that abortions become less prevalent.

Let's face it, outside of the rape/incest type situations, avoiding pregnancy is pretty damn easy. DON'T HAVE SEX. I'd rather educate people to the extent we can on that than just say "we're going to outlaw abortion."

JMHO

sex is a bit too prevalent in our society to think that we are going to convince people to not have sex. there are other protections, of course, and i do agree that we should continue to educate/promote those.

however, at the root, i still believe that abortion is taking a child's life, so i cannot be okay with it in any manner. which, is why these things are such hot-button items.

Interesting that you split the Anti-abortion group into 3 options, and 2 of those still qualifying for allowing some abortions.

Yet you split the pro-abortion group into only 2 options. So you would slant the percentages for more pro-abortion results.

Not sure if you're implying that I was trying to slant the results but that was not my intent.

I tried to cover all the possible logical choices on the matter.

If you'd like to read into them how you like be my guest.

Special circumstance for me.


Aside from the moral reasons, men should have the right to absolve their responsibility just as women have been given that right.


If a woman can decide she doesn't want a baby, why can't a man???

Ok....fess up....

How many little Ballpeens are there running around out there?

+ or - Travis Henry 11 children with 10 different women.

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If a woman can decide she doesn't want a baby, why can't a man???

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Because he's the one with the smoking gun?.

Your going to ask me that question LOL the answer would be NO, NO, NO, I would understand in the case of rape or incest, even if I don't agree, but for any other reason the HELL NO. That baby has more of a reason to live than the mother.

I've got to ask ...

Who are the 9 folks who would make a woman carry the result of a rape around for 9 months?

And if the law reflected your opinion, what would be the proper punishment for a woman who decide to abort the result of said rape? Jail time? How long?

if abortion is murder, then it is murder. no matter the circumstances from where the pregnancy came. two horrific wrongs do not make a right.

i have stated above and elsewhere that i understand that stance would not hold up over public opinion and there would be a compromise for these situations. i am okay with that, but it is not my opinion.

will the pregnancy be a daily reminder of what happened? likely yes.

however is that better/worse than burying what happened and not dealing with it? is it possible for a woman to take the child as a positive out of a horrible event (either as her own child or giving to adoptive parents who cannot conceive their own)?

**those questions can go either way, obviously.

note: a father-from-rape should have absolutely no legal grounds to the child in any way, shape or form. that is a definitive even if the woman gives the child up in adoption.

We've talked about this a few times...could search old threads if we felt like it.

But, I tend to agree with you. The problem is the 'system' today is broken. I would like one where both parents have the same rights. The catch is you can't give up your responsibilities unless both parents agree.

I support a woman's right to choose a safe medical procedure for her own situation. I especially see no reason for her to be forced to bear a child of a rapist or incest. I was sad to see this survey had no place for the woman to have the sovereign vote on this. I reject the idea that somehow this is an entitled venue for strangers, politicians, and others bent on denying access or forcing their values on others to preclude the woman's right to choose. There are many considerations.

jc
I voted special instances only. It's hard to judge others and tell them what to do if you've never been there yourself.
Personally, I don't think I could go through with it, But I've never been in a situation where I had to choose. I also think it's selfish when there are countless couples who aren't able to have children. But again, I've never been there.

Part of me thinks that Abortion should be illegal in all cases......just based on the principle that you are basically terminating a process that, if allowed to continue, will result in a human being....and human life is priceless.

So, with that, once the egg is fertilized, its a human being. If the end result will be a living, breathing human being---and you do something to prevent that human being from becoming a living, breathing human being---then, you are, in some way, "killing" that person.

I also feel that a woman who is the victim of some violent attack and becomes pregnant, is really put into a horrible situation where she has this tremendously unfair burden forced upon her---through no fault of her own; being subject to this sickening tragedy.

But should the seed be snuffed out, simply because his/her father committed a most heinous act. In effect, punishing an innocent life for the unspeakable sins of the father. Or, conversely, should the child be brought into the world with this awful burden awaiting him/her when they get old enough to ask who their real father was.....

This is a situation where there is no easy answer.

But I think that the most humane thing to do, would be to deliver that child. It would take a lot of courage, strength, and compassion to do this; And once the child is born--that is the only time where it can become possible to make this situation right. Allowing the child to live, and greet them with unconditional love---a mother, and a family could do a lot to turn a despicable act into something; someone special....

IMO, it is completely unfair to expect any mother to do this. But I firmly believe that it would be the right thing to do.

Part of me also believes that abortion is really; one of the most selfish acts one can choose to participate in....

Its basic premise is this: sorry about your luck, but you are really, really inconveniencing me and my lifestyle---so you are just going to have to deal with not living....

That is abortion in a nutshell...pick your reason--but basically, I am more important than you--sorry about your luck--aborted.

Now; with all this said....

If some selfish people out there want to have an abortion performed within the first few weeks of pregnancy---then they can have it done.

But there should be some limits as far as how far along the pregnancy is---and also; there should be limits on individuals.....I don't think anyone should have more than one abortion in their life time.

Personally, I don't believe anyone should have an abortion; ever...

But if some choose to do so; we should at least make sure that they are not using abortion as a way to terminate pregnancy after pregnancy with blatant disregard for human life....

On a side note; I don't believe that the state should be debating whether abortion is right or wrong....IMO, its way, way, way to sensitive, and personal a subject to ever mandate a particular position regarding the moral implications involved when terminating a pregnancy.

I do believe that it is up to consenting parent(s), consulting with license doctors to determine what they determine is the right thing to do...

Anthropogenic climate change doesn't happen, I heart GW, and no abortions.

Gotta love dawgtalkers

Seriously, one out of every five people on this board don't think a woman should be able to have an abortion even if she was raped?

So much concern with what your neighbors' are up to. It must be hell on top of that soapbox telling the rest of the world how little regard they have for life.

Personally, I voted within first two trimesters as law states today. I have a close friend who ended up having an abortion. Background of the story, she was seeing this guy for a couple months. They had a good initial connection, ended up dating and were sleeping together, when two months later she found out he had cheated on her with a stripper. So of course she broke up with the guy and had no intentions on being with, let alone, speaking to him. Well, a couple weeks and a missed period later, she found out her birth control wasn't effective, and she was pregnant.

Now, if you personally feel that you would immediately consent to carrying the child of a distant, lying philanderer you have no feelings for, changing all of your life to raise a child with someone displaying trust/control issues, then that's great. I just don't get where you feel the need to pass legislation for her to not be allowed to control what goes on in HER OWN BODY, and write laws in such a way that make her painful (physically and psychologically) abortion procedure- that removed the fetus when it was the size of a grain of rice- and act like in law that should be the moral equivalent to taking a machete to a toddler's throat.

That's a very difficult situation and I can't find too much fault with her having an abortion under those circumstances.

Your comment though did make me wonder: "abortion procedure- that removed the fetus when it was the size of a grain of rice- and act like in law that should be the moral equivalent to taking a machete to a toddler's throat"

Do you know what happens in each of the abortion procedures? I don't want to go into it here but Google if you have time. It's frankly horrific to me and that feeling has only been heightened having a child of my own.

When I hear something to the effect of "MY OWN BODY" I think of the today legal procedure known as "Dilation and Extraction" or D&E. Try and wrap your mind around that...while knowing that children can be born and live healthy lives if born during the second trimester.

I know I'll get called a prude - but I'm curious as to why this person was sleeping with a boyfriend of only 2 months in the first place. And, what kind of protection was she or him using.

Responsible sex. It will eliminate 90 to 95% of unwanted pregnancies before they even happen. (probably more than 95% actually).

However, with the "hook up" for a night thing..........and no planning for it........well, it is what it is, right?

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Seriously, one out of every five people on this board don't think a woman should be able to have an abortion even if she was raped?

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I don't believe that.

I hear that all the time.

What i would actually like to know is how many women actually conceive from a rape episode??



I think it is pretty slim.


First you have to assume the man actually ejaculates during the rape.


I'd bet due to time concerns or her fighting that doesn't happen all that much.


You next have to consider the woman's window where she can get fertilized. In most cases it's only about half the month, if that.


I think the percentage of women who abort a pregnancy due to being raped is pretty small compared to the total number.



So, I agree, a woman raped who conceived should be able to abort the child.



I have no problem with that. Same for children found to have birth defects, or if the mothers life is endangered if she were forced to go through delivery.



Again, if a woman can elect to abort her responsibility as a parent, a man should be afforded the same right.