DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is It Too Soon to Give Up on McCoy?..PART TWO...

so much of that has less to do with McCoy than with every other component of the offense.

He hasnt been perfect on deep balls. But lets look at how our WRs and TEs go for deep balls...Name me ONE play all year where we threw a long ball and a WR made a GOOD play on the ball. I cant name one. Unless you count the jump ball Little came down with on the sideline a few weeks back.

Face it...we dont throw deep balls because our WRs SUCK at getting deep and open. moreso, Colt hasnt done a great job putting it where only his guys can get it deep.

Look at most deep balls in the NFL though...its a jump ball that the WR makes a better play for...who was the last guy the Browns had that could do that? Webster?

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It's called a sense of humor, Donuts.

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Speaking of that,, I am thinking that Joe has a food fetish. I mean think about it.. First it's ham now it's donuts..

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Sorry I didn't take his rant seriously. He's allowed to rant, but that doesn't make it some great feat of enlightenment

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I never said that Woofs rant is accurate or even valuable.. But I did find it funny that that was all you got out of it...

Anyway, From the tone of Holmgrens presser today, I think the decision on Colt could already have been made.

What I mean by that (and I agree this might be reading way to much into it) But Holmgren made mention of two things that could have made the difference this year. Better snapping and better catching. (I think he said we could be at 7 wins with better snapping and better catching)

what he didn't mention was a need for better Quarterbacking. By itself, that doesn't mean anything and I wouldn't read more into it. Just take it at face value. He may have said it if he were just a little bit more angry.... dude was ticked,, no question.

But I bet you this much., new QB or Colt next season,, we will have better receivers.. Holmgren isn't going to settle for less..

I'd also put Moore's name into that category where he had to outstretch on that medium throw from colt last game or the game before that.

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"I know how much Cleveland fans hate Pittsburgh,"Taylor said,when asked about Steelers quarterback BigBen "When I am going to play against him, he is going to go down."

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Django, I love this sig, it just made me remember Taylor clubbing Ben the other night. Knocked the crap out of him. What's funny is I don't think he was flagged.

I hate-love Roethli with a passion...I wanted us to draft him very very badly, then he landed in PIT of all places and beats the crap out of us and the league almost annually

By now, I want him to get injured and ruin the Steelers season every season but this guy keeps coming back and never goes down....I just hope Big Phil eats him alive in week 17

Holmgren has already said that he does not believe in QB competitions. If we bring in another QB, rest assured that he will be the starter from the word go.

As far as Flynn, I hope that someone who needs a QB, and who drafts ahead of us, overpays for him.

I sure am not impressed with him.

Just talking out loud (so to speak) here...I could see where a guy is brought in to be the backup, while McCoy remains on a very short leash. Not saying that's what I predict, simply rather that such a move would have a plan-B in place without actually creating any competition.

I can't see a guy like Flynn doing that though. I think that some team will give him a big deal to save them. (ala a Matt Cassel)

If a team does that, he won't be the second choice, fall back position.

We already have a very good backup, who has proven that he can win games in the NFL in Seneca Wallace. If we sign another guy to be a backup, all we'll do is go 3 deep with backups.

Thats right.... Holmgren said no QB competition.... hmmmm.
You know what, if he sticks to his words- its one more year of Colt. He has also said that a QB needs time to develop-- was it 30 games or three years???? Whatever, it was- if he does not want a qb competition and he meant what he said about a QB needing time- Colt has another year. I'm OK with that, its the best of all worlds if he can be the guy. Its just that i really have my doubts at this point.

Since Slaughter left town.

Michael Jackson, Keenan McCardell, Andre Rison, and Derrick Alexander.

Kevin Johnson, ( all of the 4 2nd rounders were able to really stretch the field),

And Edwards, when paired next to KWII.

It Has been a whole other level of bad since 2006.

Again ...... Holmgren has said that he will not have a QB competition. He will have a set starter and backup going into any season. I suppose that could change if the starter struggles into the season, but not in training camp.

No doubt McCoy has not had the sophmore year everyone wanted.
But can anyone tell me who around Colt McCoy has had a good year?
I don't know if anyone brought this up,but Shurmur isn't exactly a experianced OC.
He's still learning that as much as McCoy is learning the QB position.
Its been brought up a million times...Tom Heckart neglected addressing the offense this year and the team suffers.
This offense has zero threats that can stretch the field.
If you can't loosen up a defense,then all the defense is gonna do is suffocate everything intermediate.
Teams rush 4 and drop 7 on McCoy. He has no windows to throw into to.
on a 3rd and 9 all he is that 5 yard hitch that defenses gladly give up.

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But can anyone tell me who around Colt McCoy has had a good year?

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Doesn't matter,, to some folks, it's about McCoy and that's the end of the story..

I think theres a difference in being able to stretch the field and to be able to make a good play on the ball...

Braylon did a good job getting deep and commanding coverage...but when a deep ball came to him, i dont remember seeing him make too many good plays on balls. He could stop short and go up for a ball, but most WRs can do that, thats why the underthrown ball is a great play, but when it was to hit him in stride, he rarely fought hard enough to bring it in.

KJohnson, and those other guys...outside of Rison who wasnt good here didnt make great plays on the deep ball...KJohnson was great in the slot. If we wanna talk stretching the field guys...Tim Carter did that, but he stunk at getting open or making the catch.

Jackson was great on the deep ball though,. forgot about him.


Also to the earlier poster...I agree those two deep ball TDs to Mass and Cribbs were very good plays...both times they jumped in front of the defender...I havent seen really any players where they actually outfought a defender for the ball...Cribbs definitely did on his, Mass's td the DB made a terrible play on it.

Until we find a guy that can outbattle a guy for the ball (a la AJ Green, Dez Bryant and so on....) were going to see a struggling QB, because those are the guys that command double teams that get everyone else open.

Browns vs. Steelers – Every Pass (to evaluate McCoy vs. OL vs. Receivers):

Just the first half now, because this takes forever. Here's what I saw.

2nd and 8 – Steelers Rush 6 with two Lbs coming free up the middle. Browns have 6 blockers, but one is an extra TE on the right, which means the 2nd LB is free to the QB. McCoy makes a three step drop and the correct hot read to Watson up the middle (throw where the pressure is coming from). Gain of 6.

3rd and 1 – McCoy fakes Handoff to the left and bootlegs right. There may be some confusion in the line call, as both Tes on the right (Watson and Smith) go out, leaving Pittsburgh #92 free to go to McCoy. McCoy moves away from the pressure and delivers a catchable (though not great) pass to Watson for a gain of 4. McCoy is knocked down on the play.

1st and 10 – Play-action to Hillis. Steelers rush 4. Pocket holds well and McCoy steps up to make a throw to the left side to an open Evan Moore. The throw is a little high (but catchable) and Moore makes a nice catch, gain of 33.

1st and 10 – I formation. Steelers rush 4, Browns block with 5, sending both backs out on patterns. Blocking holds nicely, and McCoy is able to step up in the pocket. Delivers a strike to an open Cribbs, although the throw is probably about an eighth of a second late, causing Cribbs to have to slow down to make the catch (had he lead Cribbs at the time he threw, the defender would have broken it up). This stops Cribbs momentum which prevents a TD on this play. Either way, gain of 30 or so.

2nd and 2 – Shotgun formation with Hillis on the left. Steelers only rush 4. Primary read is Hillis out in the flat, and Hillis does have his man beat for a split second where McCoy might have made a throw. Pinskton gets beat fairly badly and McCoy moves to avoid the pressure and decides to tuck and run, makes it to about the 3 inch line (touchdown reversed on replay).

3rd and Inches – Running play here, but I'd like to comment. For some reason we hand off to Hilis instead of a QB sneak here. The entire interior line (especially Mack) get blown up by the Steelers D, loss of 2 on the play. Judging from Marecic's lead block, the plan was to go off-tackle left, but the Steelers D crashes left so effectively, that Hillis never makes it close.

2nd and 6 – (After a few runs and a very confusing reverse where the line appears not to have been on the same page). We line up with three wides, and Hillis as single back. We keep the TE in to block 6 and the Steelers rush 4. McCoy has a decent pocket, but is unable to step up as the RDE (blocked by Thomas and mostly Pinkston) has crashed inside and pushed back Pinkston into the pocket. McCoy makes one of his best throws of the night to Massaquoi who has slightly beaten the CB on a double move. It's a nice outside shoulder throw where only the WR can get it. (Safety is coming in for support, so any other throw would have given MoMass concussion #8532 on the season). Mass has to make a nice catch to finish the completion, but there isn't a ton of room there.

1st and 10 – Browns have 2 TE right, 2 wide with Hillis as single back. Steelers rush 5 (up the middle again), but Hillis picks up the blitz. Pinkston gets beat slightly, forcing McCoy to move to the right (nothing major though). McCoy throws up a jump ball deep to MoMass, who is in single coverage. The coverage however (by Gay) is very good. It's an ok throw (a little short so that Mass can come off the route) – he does, with the help of some pretty major (but uncalled) PI, but is only able to get one hand up after pushing the CB out of the way, and can't complete (what would be a TD) catch.

It's not a great pass – but I'd like to see this sort of thing from the Browns more often. We gave our top receiver a chance to make a play 1:1.

2nd and 10 – Browns with 3 Wide and a single back. Steelers rush 4. Play is a designed Play-action fake leading to a screen pass to the right. Thus the Browns let the two steelers linemen on that side through (as designed). McCoy, though, doesn't make the throw to Hillis, for reasons I don't quite understand. It may be that #90 got through too quickly and was blocking the throwing lane (hard to tell from the side angle). Either way McCoy double clutches and avoids the rush, before throwing it to Hillis a second later. Gain of 2, but due to the delay Mack was already downfield and the penalty is called. Bad play by McCoy to not get rid of the ball on time, where it could have been a reasonable gain.

3rd and 14 – Browns in shotgun with 3 wide (one tight in a TE position). Browns keep 7 home and Steelers rush 5. Smith gets beat badly by 93 and McCoy steps up to avoid, and then leaves the pocket right (not sure how necessary leaving the pocket is here – but the routes are mostly to the right anyway.) He ends up tucking the ball and running for a gain of 3 or 4. Without a downfield cam, it's impossible to see the routes.

1st and 10 – Browns in Iformation three wide. Steelers rush 5, Browns protect all 7, but the pocket gets pushed back pretty badly for a three step drop. McCoy can't step up, but gets off a good pass to MoMass on a 5 yard out. But Mass drops it.

2nd and 10 – Browns with two wide pro formation. Steelers rush 4, Browns have 6 blockers with Maricic staying back, but he gets blown up by #93 (which he's blocking 1:1?) McCoy steps up to avoid pressure and then moves to the right, delays before passing the line of scrimmage and makes a nice pass to Cribbs who has cut all the way from the left side of the field. Accurate pass and gain of 14.

1st and 10 – 2 TE 2 Wide with a single back. Oh boy, this is the “McCoy terrible interception of the week”. Browns keep 6 back to block, Steelers rush 5. McCoy has a good pocket to work with, and personally has a pretty good read to Evan Moore on an inside seam, but it's a terrible pass and Polamalu (running in) cuts off Moore and gets the pick. The worst part is that this play could have been huge going the other way, if McCoy had put some air under the pass and thrown it deeper. Polamalu dangerously jumps the route here, and there's nobody in deep coverage (probably why McCoy assumed that the route would not be jumped and Moore would be open).

2nd and 9 – After a Steelers fumble and a run, we go shotgun 4 wide. Steelers rush 4 and we have 5 protecting. Protection is pretty good. McCoy's first read is Little who is running a 5 yard out, but he double clutches and then throws a very questionable duck in the direction of Norwood. The window for this pass doesn't really exist, which I think McCoy realizes last second and puts the ball where nobody could catch it. Bad decision to make a throw here, and he might have had some more time to find Watson in the middle for a gain of a few.

3rd and 9 – Shotgun, 3WR, two backs. Steelers rush 4, both our backs have delayed routes. Pashos gets beat on the right and McCoy evacuates the pocket and rolls out to the right. (It's another one of these times where he doesn't really have to leave the pocket, but it's a good decision because the routes are going that way.) He buys quite a bit of time, and then hits a wide open Greg Little. The pass is a yard or two to the outside, where if he had pulled Little back in, we might have let him run upfield a little more. Either way, the goal here is to convert, and it's a great pass for that.

1st and 10 – After some runs, Steelers rush 4, our backs go into routes so we are blocking 5. The line is getting pushed back, so McCoy can't step up (but doesn't have to flee). He checks down rather quickly to Hardesty on a 2 yard out route. As always, the most difficult thing to do is to figure out who was actually open, but the first read up the middle (if it was to the TE) was well covered.

3rd and 4 – Browns in 4 WR with a single back. Steelers blitz 6 and Browns have 6 blocking as the RB stays back. Obi get's blown up however, and McCoy has gets hit very quickly (<1.4 seconds). That being said, the blitz freed up Norwood for a split second (though the steelers have a double team coming trying to jump the route), and could have hit him (or Little on the outside after the steelers jump the inside route) – but either play would have been very tough/risky. It's an opportunity for a great play from McCoy, but eating the ball wasn't a terrible move either.

1st and 10 – Steelers blitz 5, Browns have 2WR, 2TE, single back. Hillis stays back to block. Pinkston gets destroyed up the middle, and Hillis goes for the knees of the outside rusher (#92) too far into the pocket. McCoy gets drilled high and low, but completes a pass to MoMass up the middle. Mass makes a nice leap to catch the pass (which is high). This is the QB bailing out the O-line with a decent throw, and the WR bailing out the QB by catching it.

3rd and 2 – Bootleg out left. Good protection (defenses usually don't worry to much about the bootleg to the QB blind side), and McCoy has a lot time to throw, but doesn't take time to set and throws a wobbler across his body which is too low for Watson to handle. Watson gets hit in the head by the DB, and leaves with a concussion. Might have had a better chance throwing to Smith, or trying to force a run throw option to get Smith more open. But mostly, it's just a poor throw.

2nd and 7 – Here's a fun play to break down. Shotgun with 3 wide and an RB. Steelers rush 4, RB goes out for a swing pass. Lauvao gets blown up on the play, and McCoy (who is about to throw) has to reclutch and move up in the pocket to avoid pressure. He then throws a floater deep to Norwood (off his front foot), and the pass is (should have been) intercepted in the end zone. BUT, showing the all-22 footage, you see that Norwood has his man beat badly on a double move (when McCoy wants to throw the pass, if not for the pressure). There is no safety help over the top originally.

This play has TD written all over it, if not for Lauvao getting beat. Once he did and McCoy had to double clutch, he had no business making the throw anymore, especially since he's throwing a floater off his front foot, almost leading to the pick.

3rd and 7 – Steelers rush 4 (1 delayed), browns block with 5. Good protection, and McCoy makes a nice throw to Alex Smith, who would have been free. Unfortunately Smith is (pretty clearly) interfered with by the LB passing the other way, leading to an incompletion, but it isn't called.

1st and 10 – 13 seconds left in the half. Browns have 4 out with a RB back. Steelers rush 4. We're trying to go deep, but Joe Thomas gets pushed back a bit, and then Pinskton loses his man. McCoy settles for the short out to Evan Moore.

2nd and 5 – Hail Mary attempt. Steelers rush 4. Pashos gets beat, Joe Thomas gets beat (and caught holding). McCoy rolls out but gets hit from behind and fumbles. Mack falls on it.


Impressions:

McCoy had 4 bad passes – the interception, the duck to Norwood (on the very next pass), the very low throw to Watson on the Bootleg, and the decision to throw deep to Norwood after the double clutch. The offensive line got blown up only a few times (and two were on TE/RBs and not the linemen themselves), so they held together pretty well. There was one blatant drop on MoMass.

Overall this sort of performance makes you think we'd have put up more than 3 points.

I can't say if Colt is the guy, but would Flynn have managed 14 TDs to 11 picks with a brutal offensive line, no decent WRs and no running game? What we need to do in the draft is get one of the big three WRs (likely not Blackmon), sort out RB (get one if we're parting with Hillis) and get a beast of a RT.
I wish I knew what they really think of Pinkston and Lavauo, because if they aren't gonna work, I'd get a guard up high, too.
If they can get a second tier QB with a great arm, like Tannehill or later, Cousins, I'm okay with that as long as it doesn't cost one of the No. 1s. Finally, I'd trade down to get Cincy or NE's two number ones if they wanted to do it. We might end up with No. 4 overall.

I wouldn't mind keeping Colt as the starter another season.. and picking up a QB next year if he doesn't work out.. I think there are definately limitations to Colt's game, but he for the most part does what he is suppose to do. His downfall is his pocket awareness and his ability to look up the field at all times when getting pressured.

If we add one of the "big" 3 WR's.. considering Blackmon won't be there.. I would snag Michael Floyd w/ our second 1st rounder.. We really need a "burner" at slot.. but I have been pretty impressed with Jordan Norwoods ability to get open and also get separation. I would love seeing our WR's look like:

MoMass
Floyd
Little
Norwood
Cribbs

Mitchell is probably the next to get cut at some point.. and I don't see the Browns extending Mo's contract.. so go ahead and get a beast to help bring some excitement to this offense.

I wonder if Evan Moore could convert to WR? He might be a good slot guy too. It appears he's too weak of a blocker to stay on the field as a TE. Maybe he could be our Dave Logan / Joe Jurevicius type, creating mismatches with his height and strength advantage.

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Browns vs. Steelers – Every Pass (to evaluate McCoy vs. OL vs. Receivers):

Just the first half now, because this takes forever. Here's what I saw.

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Lyuokdea..thanks for taking the time to review these plays...

...we need to keep in mind, the Browns break down every play and do so with the full knowledge of the play call and knowing each players assignment and whether each player completed their assignment.

Each player is graded on their performance for each game and part of the end of the season review will be a final review assessing all the info collected over the season.

Most of the fans see a play one time and formulate an opinion based on that one view of a play...without the benefit of knowing the play or the assignments of each of the 11 players.

What Lyuokdea is doing here, taking another look, breaking down and analyzing the plays and posting that analysis here is far more than most of us Browns fans care to do...good stuff, Lyuokdea

Moore in the slot should have started last season.. Another reason I have zero faith in this Org...

The rest (i'll write up some thoughts after the game today):

2nd and 3 – Steelers rush 4, RB goes out to flat, so we have 5 blockers. Harrison (lined up against JT) goes into coverage, and our line shifts to the right. JT single team on Keisel, JP and AM double team on Casey Hampton, SL single team on Hayward and TP single team on Worllds. SL get's pushed back into the pocket by a bull rush, and AM switches off the double team to help. McCoy steps up to avoid the pressure and then tucks it and to run ahead, but is about a foot short of the first.

2nd and 8 – Steelers rush 4, Browns keep Alex Smith (AS) back to protect, Keisel goes inside again, and this time JT ends up blocking air. AM is single team on Hampton, and mostly whiffs, but then manages to knock Hampton's legs out from under him while going down (not illegal). SL and TP double team McLendon while AS is blocking Worllds 1:1, but does a nice job before TP switches off the double team to help. McCoy has a nice pocket to throw from, steps up and delivers a pretty terrible pass in the direction of MoMass, who was in a very tight space between two defenders. Pretty bad decision by McCoy since there wasn't room there. Also he probably has the first down if he tucks and runs (6 yards at least).

3rd and 8 – Steelers rush 5 with the Blitz coming from an LB between JT and JP and a delayed blitz from Keisel behind McLendon and to the right side. Obi stays behind to pick up the blitz. We end up with JT single on Harrison, Obi single on the Farrior, AM and JP doubling McLendon, SL single on Keisel (on the delay), and TP single on the LDE (who I can't see the number of). Obi gets blown up into the pocket, preventing McCoy from stepping up, (and he gets hit lightly at the end). But he delivers a strike up the middle to Alex Smith, splitting two defenders for a gain of 10 and a first down.

1st and 10 – Play is a designed play action to the left, and JT is part of this play action fake (is this normal?) which completely removes him from any blocking. Steelers rush 4, and the TE on the right stays, so we still have 5 blocking. JP goes 1:1 with Keisel, Mack 1:1 with Hampton, SL 1:1 against Hayward, AS 1:1 against Worllds, and TP chips Worldds as well (and is mostly an assist for either SL or AS). JP gets beat and the pocket collapses quickly and McCoy leaves his pocket deep right, SL gets pushed back into the pocket (though stays between his man and McCoy). McCoy tucks it and runs for a gain of 5, and Farrior hits him late out of bounds.

2nd and 7 – Steelers blitz 5 with Harrison coming off the edge to our left side. We keep AS in to block (on the right) and Hardesty goes out on a route. JT goes 1:1 against Harrison, JP and AM double team Keisel, SL is 1:1 against Hampton (though this formation is tight, and it looks like AM is meant to switch if necessary), TP is 1:1 against somebody, and AS is 1:1 against Worllds. It's a 3 step drop and quick out to MoMass, and would be a first down, but JT false started (when Harrison moved in for the blitz). It was a small false start (I didn't see it the first three times through, but it is definitely there).

3rd and 9 – Browns in shotgun with two backs (AS and Obi) who both chip before going on delayed routes. Steelers rush 4, JT is 1:1 (after the chip from AS, which actually may be more incidental) against Worllds, JP is 1:1 against Keisel, but gets an assist from AM, who could switch either left or right, SL is single against Hayward, and TP is single against Harrison. JT ends up missing his man to the outside after the chip, and McCoy (on a deep drop to where JT ends up blocking his man) leaves the pocket to the right (though he probably could have stepped up left as AM and JP obliterated Keisel). He throws on the run (no time to set) and misses Little on a throw that leads him by about a yard too much (Little is open).

3rd and 6 – Backed up on our own 5 after the goal line stand. Steelers rush 4, we're in two TE set (split) with a single back and two WR. Tes go out and Obi stays back to block. It's a very quick one step timing pattern, and the blocking is pretty good all-around (really no time to fail here). McCoy hits Little in the hands (very accurate), but he drops (or becomes separated from) the ball after being hit by Polamalu.

1st and 10 – Browns use a 5 step drop out of a 2 TE (split) 2 WR set, AS stays back to block. Steelers rush 5 with Harrison coming off our left end. We end up with AS 1:1 against Harrison (ouch), though JT comes over at the end to assist. JP 1:1 against Keisel (with a quick chip by thomas before he moves out to assist AS), Mack 1:1 vs. Hampton, SL 1:1 against McLandon and TP 1:1 against Worllds. The protection holds pretty well, and McCoy has a nice pocket. He delivers a strike (maybe a foot or two low, but pretty nice) to an open MoMass for a gain of 12.

2nd and 5 – This is the McCoy concussion play (and I'm going to stop evaluating him after this point – as I don't care how he performs while concussed). We have 2TE 1RB 2WR, who all go on patterns, Steelers rush 4 crashing our right side. JT ends up assisting JP with Keisel, Mack is 1:1 vs. Hampton, SL is 1:1 vs. McLandon and TP is 1:1 vs. Worllds. Keisel cuts to JP's side to avoid Thomas, and JP completely loses his balance (with a small assist from JT's foot), and this allows Keisel inside, and forces McCoy out of the pocket to the left. McCoy running makes the toss to Hardesty (you've seen the rest 100 times) and gets blown up by Harrison.

2nd and 9 – Seneca Wallace now behind center. I formation with a TE (Moore) on the right. Steelers only rush 3 (drop back to confuse the new QB?). TP and JP double team Keisel, Mack ends up blocking air, SL 1:1 vs. Hampton, TP 1:1 vs. McLandon. Wallace hits Moore on a nice pass in stride for a gain of 15 or so and a first down.

It's interesting to remember how close we were to winning at this point. Ball on the Steelers 5 with 5 minutes left to go and down by 4.

2nd and 5 – McCoy back in (for some reason), Steelers full out blitz 6, (maybe they knew he was concussed?) Browns only have 5 blockers here. JT and JP double team Harrison (and still manage to almost let him through free as JT starts to move off to the outside pressure JP falls backwards and blocks almost nothing). JT, for his part, misses Timmons completely after switching off (Timmons is most successfully blocked by Harrison, who has already beaten him to the point. AM is 1:1 against Hampton and does fine. SL and TP are also fine against their guys. Due to the numbers mismatch Polamalu is a free rusher (ouch) against McCoy. McCoy maanges to avoid the pressure (and shrug off a tackle by Polamalu) (Polamalu, Harrison and Timmons chasing him free) to the right, but gets snagged in the leg by Harrison, and manages to throw some duck pass, but his knee is down. This is probably the play that cost us the game, as we now go to 3rd and 15 instead of 2nd and 5, and everything went wrong here (terrible protection scheme for the blitz), two missed blocks on the left side (McCoy would have had plenty of time after avoiding the free Polamalu if the other two are blocked).

3rd and 15 – Steelers rush 6 again (smelling blood?) Browns have 6 to block with Obi staying back. But it's a delayed blitz this time, so McCoy still takes a 5 step drop. JT is 1:1 against Harrison, JP 1:1 against Keisel, AM picks up Woodley on the delay, Obi picks up Farrior 1:1, SL has Hayward 1:1 and TP has Worllds 1:1. Harrison beats JT and crashes the pocket (though JT stays between him and McCoy), so McCoy can't step up into the throw at all. The rest of the blocking is pretty good. McCoy throws the pick into the endzone.

1st and 10 – 3 Wide, 1 TE, 1 RB, Steelers rush 5 with a blitzer to the outside. Browns protect with 5, but due to a mistake from the line call, the Browns protect to the right, and Timmons is in untouched. JT picks up his guy (Woodley?) 1:1, JP takes Kiesel 1:1, AM and SL double Hayward, TP has Harrison 1:1. McCoy's pass is a little high (remember not evaluating), Obi gets a hand on it and tips it up

2nd and 10 – Steelers rush 5, extra LB up the middle. Browns keep Obi back to block, TE's go out. JT 1:1 vs. Harrison, JP 1:1 vs. somebody, AM picks up blitzer, SL picks up Hayward 1:1 and TP picks up Worllds 1:1. Blocking is very good, McCoy hits Little on a crossing route, gain of 8.

1st and 10 – Shotgun with Hillis in the backfield. Steelers blitz 5, with a Keisel stunt to the right. JT 1:1 vs Harrison, JP and AM and SL triple McLendon (???why???), then SL moves over to get Keisel stunt, but this leaves Farrior free to McCoy, TP has Worllds 1:1. McCoy throws before the blitz gets him, but is low to Hillis.

2nd and 10 – Steelers drop 8, but somehow still get pressure we have JP, AM and SL tripling McLendon (???why???) while TP never gets out to block Worllds leaving him 1:1 against Alex Smith (?) McCoy steps up into the pocket but throws a terrible pass low which is almost picked.

3rd and 10 – Free play when Harrison jumps. Steelers blitz 4, Browns send everybody out. JT and JP deal with Keisel and Harrison (who stunts late and JP/JT switch off well). SL and AM handle McLendon and TP handles worlds 1:1. McCoy incomplete (high) to Norwood is incomplete.

3rd and 5 – Steelers rush 3 (prevent), Browns leaves Smith back to block, AS and JT have Keisel, JP and AM have McLendon and TP is again 1:1 vs. Worllds. Colt McCoy hits Norwood accurately for a gain of 10.

1st and 10 – Steelers blitz 5 to our right. Browns keep Obi back to block. JT and JP double Keisel, Lauvao and Mack block Worllds, TP blocks blitzing CB and Obi blocks Timmons around the edge. McCoy goes short to Norwood for a gain of 7.

2nd and 3 – Steelers rush 4. JT and JP double Keisel as Harrison delay blitzes over to the right. AM has McLendon 1:1, SL picks up Harrison after the delay, TP has Worllds 1:1. McCoy hits Smith for a gain of 7.

1st and 10 – Shotgun, 3 WR and Obi goes out on a route. Steelers rush 4 (nothing fancy). JT goes 1:1 against Harrison, JP and AM takes Hayward, SL 1:1 vs. Hampton, and TP takes Worllds 1:1. Good blocking and McCoy steps up in the pocket, and throws a pass that gets intercepted because Norwood got interefered with, but the penalty is called.

1st and 10 – Shotgun, Steelers rush 4, JT takes Harrison 1:1, JP misses Hayward entirely, who gets blocked mostly by Thomas's back standing in the way. AM blocks air, SL blocks Hampton 1:1, TP blocks Worlds, pocket collapses due to Harrison and Hayward, and McCoy moves out to the left to avoid pressure, throws high to Little on a crossing route.

2nd and 10 – Steelers blitz 5 to the right (CB + LB), We keep Obi back, JT and JP take Keisel, AM goes 1:1 vs. Hampton, Obi Picks up blitzing Farrior 1:1, SL picks up blitzing Gay, TP goes 1:1 vs. Worllds, quick cross to Evan Moore for a few yards.

3rd and 8 – Shotgun, stellers rush 4, obi leaves for a route. Thomas 1:1 vs. Harrison, AM and JP double Kiesel, SL takes Hampton, Keisel moves around Hampton and gets free Late, AM and SL switch off late and try to pick it up, but Hampton gets a hand on McCoy, who leaves the pocket left to avoid the pressure and throws on the run incomplete.

4th and 8 – Last play of the game (finally) – Shotgun, Steelers rush 4, JT has Harrison 1:1, JP has Keisel 1:1, AM and SL start by doubling McLendon, but then SL moves off to help TP on Worllds, Harrison crashes the pocket forcing McCoy right, Worllds gets off his block and sacks McCoy to end the game.

Heck of a lot of work there. Kudos. It shows something, doesn't it?

A couple first impressions (though I'm currently trying to watch some other football games, just to get a point of comparison):

- Pashos is not near as bad as people (including myself previously) complain about, at least in pass protection.

- McCoy bails out of the pocket a lot. I'd say there were about 8 passes, out of 40 where he got the chance to step up and make the throw. Kellen Clemens has had that many against the Bengals today with 6 minutes left in the first quarter.

- I honestly thought McCoy looked really good pre-concussion. Then he looked pretty pretty eh.

- We gave up at least two possible TDs that would have won us the game. The 3rd and inches (mostly on the coaches, because I think you score if you sneak it there), also gave up the same TD when Colt was a step late getting the ball to Cribbs who could have run it in with a ball more on time. Also, the wide open route that got disrupted by Lauvao getting blown up would have either been a score, or would have set up first and goal.

- Mack is almost always involved in a double team. Though, he did well against Hampton 1:1.

- We often times are leaving Obi or a TE 1:1 against a very good pass rusher, that seems to be a problem with the scheme.

- I can't imagine how bad this line would look with a pure pocket guy like a Landry throwing.

- Why was Obi in for as many plays as Hillis (maybe more?)

- JT got beat a few times by Harrison (elite vs. elite)

The fact that there was no drop off whatsoever in production from the QB position by Seneca Wallace today tells me all I need to know about Colt McCoy.

He's not the guy. Let's move on ASAP and get a guy with blue chip physical skills, the accuracy of an FBI sniper and the arm of a cannon.

NRTU.

Welp, what did I see out of Wallace today compared to what I've seen out of McCoy for two years...

Timing: Wallace was getting the ball out on time, better than McCoy has this season. Sure, people can say Wallace has years of experience in this offense, but they can also say Wallace hasn't taken any first-string reps this season.

Accuracy: Wallace was hitting quite a few guys right in stride or right between the numbers. McCoy has always had several throws right on the money, then would lose the strike-zone. That strike where he rolled away from the corner-blitz and nailed Little in stride was a thing of beauty.

Arm: No question that Wallace has an NFL arm. In an apples-to-apples comparison because we got to see a different guy in the same uniform, it's obvious that McCoy doesn't have a very good gun.

Mobility: Wallace is every bit as athletic as McCoy, which is something about him I didn't really remember. He throws better than McCoy on the run, IMHO.

Presence: Wallace had a very good feel for the pocket today. I'd expect him to be better than McCoy in that regard due to his years in the league, but it's near the end of McCoy's second season. He needs to have a better feel at this point in his career. Also, maybe I missed it, but I don't recall Wallace, who is at least two inches shorter than McCoy, having any passes knocked down at the LOS.

Overall game: Nevermind that the career-backup looked a little better than McCoy has, but it's worth noting that Wallace was able to do what McCoy hasn't been able to stay away from all year: Making that one (or more) idiotic throw per game that just makes you kick your hat across the floor.

Lemme say it again folks: A career backup who makes the diminutive McCoy actually look big outplayed the incumbent starter and looked more the part doing it.

Don't think the Browns FO didn't take notice of that today.

Yeah, Yeah. I know. I'm a hater who has it out for McCoy. Deep down, I mean REALLY deep down, I've wanted McCoy to prove me wrong so we wouldn't have to keep looking for our starting QB. If there was even a shred of doubt left in me...which there wasn't...that shred was itself shredded by watching Wallace look so much more like an NFL QB than McCoy has.

And Wallace is a career backup.

I think the only question left to answer is who the FO will go after to play QB next year...

Don't agree with the accuracy part at all. I thought Wallace made more great throws than McCoy usually does, but also made many more lousy throws. He didn't have the game killing interception though (which McCoy always seems to have).

I would rate the performances fairly even at the end of the day, which probably doesn't bode great for McCoy.

Wallace did OK today. It sure didn't hurt that Little actually found the sticky stuff for his gloves.....

But let's be realistic here. The first game with the backup playing full time almost always goes well. Especially in Cleveland. I'll be more interested in seeing what Wallace does if he gets to play next week.

And lest we forget, even though Wallace is getting praise for not throwing a bonehead INT, he is the one that fumbled and forced us into OT and ultimately a loss.

Anyone that is saying we learned anything about McCoy today by watching Seneca already had the lesson plan written......

Wallace is what he is. He is a limited backup QB with a lifetime record of 6-13 when called upon to start a game. He is a decent game manager type, but definitely not an impact player at the position.

I figured that the team might really pick it up and help Wallace. In some ways, they did. In the end though, it was the same old story.

Wallace moved this team, Wallace made this O click. Wallace showed what a career back up can do in this offense. And the most important thing Wallace showed in this game was, he is leaps and bounds better than Dolt McCoy!

I am by no means saying Wallace is our qb of the future, I am saying he proved that Dolt is not. I think we should cut ties with McCoy in the off season, draft RG3 and start Wallace next year. Let RG3 learn the O, let him study the playbook, let him watch while Wallace starts.

Wallace is a much better QB than Dolt, no need to waste any more time with him imo.

Quote:

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Wallace moved this team, Wallace made this O click. Wallace showed what a career back up can do in this offense. And the most important thing Wallace showed in this game was, he is leaps and bounds better than Dolt McCoy!

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Wallace, from what I can tell, had two good drives.. and nothing else

Last week against pittsburgh, remember how effecient COLT McCoy looked.. well, Wallace wasn't any better. The difference is, this time, Hillis made it in.

Despite all the debate, it seems that almost everybody saw the same thing:

McCoy and Wallace looked pretty comparable on the field.

Some argue that Wallace > Colt, some argue Colt > Wallace - but in either case the differences weren't huge.

That leads to one of two conclusions:

1.) McCoy = Wallace = Bad - The offense didn't click for either one. We know Wallace is a long time back up, which means McCoy is also backup quality, and we need to look for a new QB.

2.) There are problems not involving the QB on this roster. Both QB's have failed, and so we need to look at other problems (OL/Playcalling/WR play)