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If I am Luck I'm praying I don't go to the Colts. With the new CBA rookies don't get that huge payday right off the bat ( at least in comparison to before). If he is dafted to sit behind Manning and Manning returns to form he could sit the bench for all of his rookie contract,then where's his pay day? If the Colts where to win a superbowl in the next year or two with Manning half lucks career could be over before he ever sees the field in Indianapolis.
No. I think there is a very real possibility that Luck does not play for Indy unless Manning is gone first.And I don't see the Colts getting rid of Manning until he is ready to go.
Luck will sign with Indy if they select him or he'll sit a year and get nothing. He'll get taken next year, but with a year out of football, he'll get drafted further back than #1 overall.
Maybe the Colts draft him and then trade him during the draft to another team. It's a no-loss situation if they're comfy taking Luck at #1 and allowing him to sit a couple or three years. If he doesn't want to be there, the Colts can trade him to Washington or Seattle or Miami or Arizona after selecting him.
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And in other news...
Atlanta losing last night sets them up to have a meaningless game with TB Sunday...
Ramifications???
They are locked into the 6 seed which means they will go to New Orleans or Frisco based on which gets the 3 spot...
They are a ONE & DONE playoff team...
Our Atlanta pick will be between 21-24... 
That's a rather good look at things. I like it. 
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Luck will sign with Indy if they select him or he'll sit a year and get nothing. He'll get taken next year, but with a year out of football, he'll get drafted further back than #1 overall.
Agree with the first part. BS on the second. If Luck is coming out, he'll play where he ends up. Maybe he and his team will engineer a Manning-esqe trade, but sitting out a year will not be an option. Guaranteed.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Good...Good...Good...
NO needs Frisco to Lose to get the 2 spot and a Bye...Not happenin'...
Atlanta goes to NO for the Wild Card game...Excellento...
Go Browns!!!
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Everyone should be hoping for a healthy Peyton Manning. Irsay stated clearly that if he could pay Peyton 30 mil to sit this year, he can afford to pay him next year. He also clearly stated that if Peyton played in 2012 it would be for the Colts.
Bottom line, which would you rather have? A really good backup quarterback guaranteed to sit from 2-5 years behind Manning or Blackmon and Alfonzo Dennard.
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Bottom line, which would you rather have? A really good backup quarterback guaranteed to sit from 2-5 years behind Manning or Blackmon and Alfonzo Dennard.
Me? I take - A really good backup quarterback guaranteed to sit from 2-5 years behind Manning.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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You always win now.
Your opinion is flawed because we've gone so long without a Quarterback.
If you were a Colts fan and you know that you can bring Manning back next year and use extra picks to add talent around him and try to win another Super Bowl or two over the next five years before Manning retires, I bet your opinion would be a lot different.
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Quote:
It occurs to me, what if the Colts decide Manning is long in the tooth, has an injury, & they see Palmer fetches 2 firsts..
They might be thinking, lets get 2 firsts, a 2nd and a 3rd for Manning and then draft Luck?
I would be less surprised if I saw the re-animated corpse of Walt Disney doing the cha cha slide in my front yard.
I think brownsfansince79 remembers his words to me from Tue Oct 18 2011 02:39 PM...
Boy.. Walt does quite the cha cha doesn't he?
I said this would happen even before Dungy or anyone on BSPN. Let me pat myself on the back for a min here..
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I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
You always win now.
Your opinion is flawed because we've gone so long without a Quarterback.
If you were a Colts fan and you know that you can bring Manning back next year and use extra picks to add talent around him and try to win another Super Bowl or two over the next five years before Manning retires, I bet your opinion would be a lot different.
Nope (I know it wasn't my comment that made this reply, but just jumping in).
I've said it on here before and nobody seems to have the counter argument. If Luck grades out to be the best thing since sliced bread and a surefire lock HOFamer, people say you do everything possible to get him, you don't pass the chance at taking a guy that can play 13-15 years and elevate your franchise to great heights. Right?
If so, why would the Colts pass on him? That statement works for them too.
See, if Manning was 7 years younger and coming off a healthy season, I could see the argument on passing. But Manning is a 13 year pro that is coming off a missed season after neck surgery. I wouldn't think there's a high probability that Manning will dominate for 2-4 more years. I would be nervous as hell hitching my wagon to Manning as the Colts GM.
Do me a favor and answer this one question. Would the Colts GM go back in time and trade away Manning for 3-4 first rounders and 1-2 second rounders in 1998 knowing how much of an impact Manning had on the franchise?
If Luck grades out to be that guy, 12-15 years, Pro Bowl every year, deep playoff runs, Super Bowl MVP, face of the franchise and sells millions of jerseys......NOBODY should pass on him for any number of 1st rounders. Add in Manning injury season and surgery, his age, his cost and I'm not sure how anyone can think you give up Luck.
And as far as "winning now". If Luck can deliver the same career as Manning, there's more chance to win over the next 15 years than going all in with Manning in the next two years. Plus, all the talent you're infusing with the accumluated picks by trading away Luck are all rookies. They'll take 1-2-3 years to become consistant all pro's (assuming you can find the all pro's in the draft).
Last edited by Punchsmack; 12/27/11 11:45 AM.
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Do me a favor and answer this one question. Would the Colts GM go back in time and trade away Manning for 3-4 first rounders and 1-2 second rounders in 1998 knowing how much of an impact Manning had on the franchise?
No.
But the Colts in 1998 didn't already have one of the Top 5 QB's of All-Time on their roster and weren't ready to win and win BIG now.
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How are they ready to win big now? They won 2 games all year without Manning. We won 4. By definition, we're closer to winning big then they are. And again, Manning is old, injured and will cost $28 million this next season. Who's to say they don't do both? Manning plays for 1-3 more years while Luck sits and learns. I mean, what would happen if Manning breaks his leg in the middle of year 2? As of now, they lose out and need to find a QB. By having Luck there as a #2 QB, they wouldn't have to go through a season like this. It sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that Luck will be a Brown next season. He won't.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I agree. Unless Luck demands a trade, I would keep both. Let manning play for a year or two, and give luck the job afterwards. All I know, is they would be idiots to pass on him. Even ST Louis if they got the first pick. I would trade bradford in a new york minute. You don't pass on guys like Luck.
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Quote:
You always win now.
Your opinion is flawed because we've gone so long without a Quarterback.
If you were a Colts fan and you know that you can bring Manning back next year and use extra picks to add talent around him and try to win another Super Bowl or two over the next five years before Manning retires, I bet your opinion would be a lot different.
Honestly, you could trade that pick, for a ton of picks. And do what the Patriots do, because they always seem to have 2 1's, and just keep trading one of those picks for a 1 the following year. Eventually you can either draft or create a package to trade for a QB. While Luck is one of the biggest prospect QB's, there will be other guys in the following years.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer if you're Indy, but it's an option. You could honestly have your cake and eat it too, if you trade that pick and get a ridiculous package for Luck, and use part of that package 3 or 4 years from now to draft a franchise guy, all while still bolstering your current roster for Peyton Manning. Win/Win.
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Why did they suck without Manning? Why did they go out and get another QB instead of playing their Backup?
All because Peyton takes every single snap in practice and the backup only works with the scout team. Painter never ran their offense lol.
By my way of thinking it just makes no sense for them to take Luck if Manning is capable of playing.
Personally, I would rather draft Claiborne with our 1st and Tannehill with our 1b and get our DE with the 2nd rounder.
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J/C
if it were me id take luck. Who better to groom the "next Manning" then Manning. Tell Luck he's learning behind him for 2 years, then he starts. Make Manning the OC and he already has his QB.
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jc...
I absolutely cannot see a scenario in which Manning gets traded. He's either a Colt next year or he gets cut outright. Between the Colts or another team paying his $28 million option and the massive cap hits the Colts take if they unload him, it just doesn't appear to be that financially viable. I'm sure Jim Irsay can afford to pay him just like he said, but that's not really relevant because he can have all the money in the world, but he still can't exceed that salary cap.
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I'd drive to the airport to pick Manning up if he got cut. I'm not sayin he'd come here, but I'd still drive to the airport.
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if he is healthy, and indy wants to play luck, Indy will want to get value for manning. I'm sure they could work around the contract, not to mention several teams definitely would be interested. It's not like manning forgot to play football. He's not a donovan mcnabb, where his stats have plummeted the past few years. If he's cleared by the doctors, he could play another 4-5 years.
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If Indy trades Manning, both his $20 million signing bonus and $28 million option bonus (minus the 1/5 of each that figured into his 2011 cap hit) accelerate and his 2012 cap hit is over $38 million. Same thing if they cut him after his bonus is paid. If they pay the option, he's a Colt for the long haul.
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Quote:
jc...
I absolutely cannot see a scenario in which Manning gets traded. He's either a Colt next year or he gets cut outright. Between the Colts or another team paying his $28 million option and the massive cap hits the Colts take if they unload him, it just doesn't appear to be that financially viable. I'm sure Jim Irsay can afford to pay him just like he said, but that's not really relevant because he can have all the money in the world, but he still can't exceed that salary cap.
I agree if they think Luck is the greatest thing since sliced breed, (or the BPA) that they will stay pat and select Luck to groom behind their HOF QB and be set for the future, because it's the hardest position in football to obtain. Filling out the rest of their roster can be done as they have for the past decade and drafting at the bottom of the Draft to boot.
Adding a box of crackers will not == a ham sandwich.
== < the same as.
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That's why we just gotta hope the Colts beat the Jaguars and the Rams lose.
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Quote:
If Indy trades Manning, both his $20 million signing bonus and $28 million option bonus (minus the 1/5 of each that figured into his 2011 cap hit) accelerate and his 2012 cap hit is over $38 million. Same thing if they cut him after his bonus is paid. If they pay the option, he's a Colt for the long haul.
This is a pretty big point. Again, just like STL, I can't see Indy keeping Manning (for what they are paying him) and then drafting Luck. Cap-space wise, that's a TON of money into one position.
Honestly, i think the question about drafting Luck is going to come down to Minnesota and how much faith they have in Ponder- who has played well at times and was a 1st round pick last year.
If they are ok with Ponder, then that leaves either the Jags or Browns and I'm willing to bet the Jags win against the Colts next week, leaving the Browns at #4.
So barring a blockbuster trade, I can realistically see the Browns having an opportunity to draft Luck.
Of course, if teams who need a QB are smart and want Luck, they won't offer EITHER Indy or MN a trade....because I'm convinced neither wants to draft Luck and neither will. They should call their bluffs and wait until the 3rd pick to dangle the carrot to MN. I could see someone like Pete Carroll going all out for Luck at #3.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Luck is going #1
If whoever is picking #1 doesn't want Luck, the pick will get traded.
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Quote:
Luck is going #1
If whoever is picking #1 doesn't want Luck, the pick will get traded.
What if no one offers Indy or StL what they are asking (which will be a LOT)? Do you think either one of them will take Luck?
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*In Baker we trust*
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I just don't think that it will be a big issue, because by the time Luck's 4 year rookie contract expires it will be time for Manning to ride off into the sunset anyway.
After going threw the season with but one win to this point after losing Manning for the year.
I would think that it would be strong medicine against letting an opportunity to CYA and draft the top QB in the class go buy.
They have had much criticism over not CYA over the coarse of the season and rightly so imo.
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NRTU...
I just don't get the notion everyone has of the Colts picking Andrew Luck at #1 overall, and him just holding a clipboard, doing push-ups, and eating crappy take-out in the film room 72 hours a week for a laughably wide window of, "Ohh, about 2-5 years!" The guy isn't sitting for a few years like Rodgers. I just don't see how everyone expects him to be content with not certainly knowing how soon he'll be able to play. If that were me, you can bet damn well I'd be actively altering where I land, ala Manning.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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If no one can meet the asking price, they will either take less or yes, take him. Both Indy and St. Louis would take him.
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Quote:
Luck is going #1
If whoever is picking #1 doesn't want Luck, the pick will get traded.
That's the dogma.
If it's the Colts I think its about 99.9% of a certainty that they will keep the pick.
The Rams could still keep the pick and still gain more picks if they chose to trade Bradford, so that would be a pretty good win for win scenario.
If the Colts lose to Jacksonville they will have still helped us out, albeit not for an opportunity to draft Luck.
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Has anyone thought that Shurmur and company are putting on a show for the media w/ the Colt McCoy "issue"?
I mean the guy (Shurmur) has not fully endorsed Colt by any means, which could show to other teams that we will DEFINITELY be drafting a QB in the 1st round. Could it be possible for the Browns front office to try and lure a team to make a huge trade to jump up a few spots.
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It's that time of year - you can read ANYTHING into just about ANY action (or inaction) made by an NFL Front Office.
Simply - we won't know until it's done and everybody knows.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Every time I hear Mortensen or Schefter talk about their sources, I always figure it's CoachB
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Quote:
Has anyone thought that Shurmur and company are putting on a show for the media w/ the Colt McCoy "issue"?
I mean the guy (Shurmur) has not fully endorsed Colt by any means, which could show to other teams that we will DEFINITELY be drafting a QB in the 1st round. Could it be possible for the Browns front office to try and lure a team to make a huge trade to jump up a few spots.
I don't think that we have to sell the rest of the League into thinking that we will be looking at drafting a QB.
We may or may not draft a QB.
much will depend on how things shake out and what their evaluation and conclusions of this current team are after the season ends.
But meh, it's never to early to start your smoke signals 
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Quote:
Quote:
Has anyone thought that Shurmur and company are putting on a show for the media w/ the Colt McCoy "issue"?
I mean the guy (Shurmur) has not fully endorsed Colt by any means, which could show to other teams that we will DEFINITELY be drafting a QB in the 1st round. Could it be possible for the Browns front office to try and lure a team to make a huge trade to jump up a few spots.
I don't think that we have to sell the rest of the League into thinking that we will be looking at drafting a QB.
We may or may not draft a QB.
much will depend on how things shake out and what their evaluation and conclusions of this current team are after the season ends.
But meh, it's never to early to start your smoke signals
Ahhh. That explains are crappy QBing for the last 15 years.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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I wish I could find out what the dates for Free Agency is. I know the following dates:
Feb. 22-28 - NFL Scouting Combine, Indianapolis, In.
Eight regional Player Combines in different nationwide locations from late January through late March.
April 26-28 - NFL Draft 2012, New York City, N.Y.
I have to assume the date is Mid March or so?
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I just hope we don't trade for bradford.
He is the 2nd most overrated QB behind Matt Ryan.
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The Rams could still keep the pick and still gain more picks if they chose to trade Bradford, so that would be a pretty good win for win scenario.
I can't see traded. In 2010 he signed a 6 year, 78m contract, with $50M guaranteed (with a potential total max of 86m). Looking at his contract details, he's been paid 2.88M (prorated 6 years) 1st year contract bonus plus 320k salary in 2010, plus 17.974 signing bonus (not prorated, 1 time hit) and 405k salary in 2011. Since in 2010 he hit his escalators, he was guaranteed another 19m (assume prorated 5 years) and has guaranteed salaries in 2012 of 1.205m, 2013 2.005m. 2014 2.805M, and 2015 of 3.605M. That adds up to his 50.2M guaranteed contract. The other 26 I cannot find, though I'd assume gets rolled into salary for the last 5 years.
This means St. Louis has put 23.459M into the kid for the first 2 years with another 26.541M still guaranteed to him. Assuming that the guaranteed salaries, along with the non guaranteed $ would move to the new team he got traded to, the Rams would still be on the hook for the remaining prorated 2.88m and the remaining prorated 19M - or a cap hit of 17.12M to cut or trade him. This would essentially mean they paid 40.579M for 2 years. The team that gets him (under my assumption a few lines above), would have roughly 36M in contract, including 9.62 guaranteed for the next 4 years.
From what I've read St. Louis is going to have a hard time with the cap next year as it is - I doubt they're willing to take that hit.
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Quote:
I just hope we don't trade for bradford.
He is the 2nd most overrated QB behind Matt Ryan.
yea.. I'd honestly like to keep Colt over Bradford.
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Quote:
I wish I could find out what the dates for Free Agency is. I know the following dates:
Feb. 22-28 - NFL Scouting Combine, Indianapolis, In.
Eight regional Player Combines in different nationwide locations from late January through late March.
April 26-28 - NFL Draft 2012, New York City, N.Y.
I have to assume the date is Mid March or so?
According to the CBA, "unless the parties agree otherwise, the 2011 League Year shall end no later than March 11, 2012" (Article 11, Section 5, item h). I presume from that, that the new league year, and thus free agency will start March 12, 2012.
Here's a copy of the CBA if anyone is interested: https://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/NFLCBA2011-20.pdf
[Ref-00: I created a local copy of the CBA document, edited the link to point to here]
Last edited by Referee00; 12/27/11 04:31 PM.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and Draft Order Part IV
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