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Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Adam_P #644603 12/27/11 02:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 30,938 A archbolddawg Legend
archbolddawg Legend A Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 30,938	I myself don't sell the farm for ANYONE. Herschel Walker - anyone remember that? (he was a trade, not a pick, I know). RIcky Williams? Anyone remember that deal? Ryan Leaf. Akili Smith. Joey Harrington. Shoot, just look at all the first round picks that have been busts. And some people want to trade our 2 first rounders this year, a second rounder, and next years first rounder for some guy that's never played in the nfl? First round picks are a bust about.......what, 50% of the time? It's not like we're a team that is one or 2 players away from "it".

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Adam_P #644604 12/27/11 02:59 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH FL_Dawg Hall of Famer
FL_Dawg Hall of Famer Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH	Quote: What I'm really afraid of is the Rams winding up with the number one pick, and Big Mike getting another shot on selling the farm to try and acquire Bradford. The fact that we did not sell the farm then and without the benefit of seeing him under center for one snap. Should reassure us that we will not sell the farm in that scenario. That's not to say that we would not pull the trigger on a trade, but just not where we have to sell the farm. I still think Bradford will be come a good QB and we have not seen all there is to see from him or Colt for that matter, but we probably have a better shot at having both, rather then a chance to select Luck in the Draft.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Damanshot #644605 12/27/11 03:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,445 H Haus Hall of Famer
Haus Hall of Famer H Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,445	Quote: Adding a QB like Luck (which, by the way, is comical that anyone would think we are going to even consider trading up for him) won't help much if he's on his back all game or has nobody to throw to that will make the tough AND easy catches. I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that the Browns will inquire about moving up to #1 to take Luck. Now, just how big of an offer we make and whether or not it happens remains to be seen. I'll say as a rough estimate maybe there is a 10% chance of it happening.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Haus #644606 12/27/11 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH FL_Dawg Hall of Famer
FL_Dawg Hall of Famer Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH	Quote: Quote: Adding a QB like Luck (which, by the way, is comical that anyone would think we are going to even consider trading up for him) won't help much if he's on his back all game or has nobody to throw to that will make the tough AND easy catches. I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that the Browns will inquire about moving up to #1 to take Luck. Now, just how big of an offer we make and whether or not it happens remains to be seen. I'll say as a rough estimate maybe there is a 10% chance of it happening. LOL, I'll go you one better ... There is probably a 90% chance that there will be discussions between the two parties, but that's pretty much as far as they will go. Imo

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... FL_Dawg #644607 12/27/11 04:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio YTownBrownsFan Legend
YTownBrownsFan Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio	I bet the Browns make an offer in the 3 #1 pick plus range ...... but the Colts, knowing the value of a franchise QB, decline. Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Adam_P #644608 12/27/11 04:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio Damanshot Legend
Damanshot Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio	Quote: Quote: a QB like Luck (which, by the way, is comical that anyone would think we are going to even consider trading up for him) It's not that comical, really. Holmgren really wanted to trade up for Bradford, who is a way worse QB than Luck is. Forgetaboutit.. the only way we get at shot a Luck is if the Rams end up with the first pick (which is possible) and even then it's only because they sank a boat load of dough in Bradford and need a ton of picks to fix all that ails them. And there still is no guarantee they'd trade the pick.. Bradford hasn't been able to stay healthy... that could be a problem and maybe they'll feel as if Bradford needs to go and Luck gets drafted.. (of course that could mean that Bradford could be gotten, so it would depend on what they ask for him but then you gotta worry about his massive contract which could hamper a team for years) It's just not ever going to be worth it to throw your entire draft at one player.. I don't remember a time where it actually panned out with one exception and that's the Cowboys/Vikings trade in the late 80's... And then, it only worked out for the team that got all the draft picks.. not the team that traded for ONE guy (hershel Walker) It's JUST DUMB to do that. Especially if you have so many needs like the Browns do. It's JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. SO, yeah, it's comical... VERY comical. #GMSTRONG “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan "Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... YTownBrownsFan #644609 12/27/11 04:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 28,403 River Styx PrplPplEater Legend
PrplPplEater Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 28,403 River Styx	I pray to God that they decline. I'll be mad as hell if we trade away 3 #1's for a prospect. Browns is the Browns ... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... YTownBrownsFan #644610 12/27/11 04:16 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH FL_Dawg Hall of Famer
FL_Dawg Hall of Famer Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH	Quote: I bet the Browns make an offer in the 3 #1 pick plus range ...... but the Colts, knowing the value of a franchise QB, decline. I agree, they have consistently been one of the sharper pencils in the box on draft days and they will not gamble away a chance that might not come around for their franchise for the next 15 years or more.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Damanshot #644611 12/27/11 04:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,521 South Euclid, OH A Adam_P Hall of Famer
Adam_P Hall of Famer A Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,521 South Euclid, OH	Quote: It's JUST DUMB to do that. Especially if you have so many needs like the Browns do. It's JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. SO, yeah, it's comical... VERY comical. Well I hope for your argument's sake that Holmgren was lying last year when he said he was willing to trade most of our draft for the #1 pick to get Bradford.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... PrplPplEater #644612 12/27/11 04:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio YTownBrownsFan Legend
YTownBrownsFan Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio	Quote: I pray to God that they decline. I'll be mad as hell if we trade away 3 #1's for a prospect. If we could get a franchise QB for 1 first round picks, I'd be mad as hell if we passed. Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... YTownBrownsFan #644613 12/27/11 04:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 30,938 A archbolddawg Legend
archbolddawg Legend A Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 30,938	Quote: Quote: I pray to God that they decline. I'll be mad as hell if we trade away 3 #1's for a prospect. If we could get a franchise QB for 1 first round picks, I'd be mad as hell if we passed. Just exactly WHO is this "franchise" qb you speak of? Sorry man - first round draft picks are at best 50/50 propositions. Just because Luck is considered by the so called "experts" to be a can't miss guy - you wanna sell the farm to get him? Just because he is considered the best qb to come out this year, you want to sell the farm to get him? I don't understand. Barclay was considered the next best - and draft guru's had him as qb 2. OOOOPS - the guru's weren't even prepared for him to say "I ain't going pro." Shoot, how many people on here had already sent our draft picks to who ever so we could get Barclay? Improve the team. If a qb is there, take him. Sell out this years picks and next years for a proven nothing? I don't want that to happen. Let's get 3 or 4 proven nothing picks and hope 2 stick.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... YTownBrownsFan #644614 12/27/11 04:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 814 A akronjoe All Pro
akronjoe All Pro A Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 814	Quote: I bet the Browns make an offer in the 3 #1 pick plus range ...... but the Colts, knowing the value of a franchise QB, decline. Not everyone is as moronic as the browns under Mangini Kokinis and the jets get a franchise QB for a center and a bag o donuts.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... akronjoe #644615 12/27/11 05:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,853 Atlanta, GA HotBYoungTurk Legend
HotBYoungTurk Legend Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,853 Atlanta, GA	Quote: Quote: I bet the Browns make an offer in the 3 #1 pick plus range ...... but the Colts, knowing the value of a franchise QB, decline. Not everyone is as moronic as the browns under Mangini Kokinis and the jets get a franchise QB for a center and a bag o donuts. who is kokinis?

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... akronjoe #644616 12/27/11 09:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 14,088 OHIO M mac OP Legend
OP mac Legend M Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 14,088 OHIO	Quote: Quote: I bet the Browns make an offer in the 3 #1 pick plus range ...... but the Colts, knowing the value of a franchise QB, decline. Not everyone is as moronic as the browns under Mangini Kokinis and the jets get a franchise QB for a center and a bag o donuts. akjoe...guess you have not read the latest on Sanchez...seems that franchise shine that was bestowed upon Sanchez is being questioned by the Jets from front office...though not publicly. GM strong... Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Adam_P #644617 12/27/11 09:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio Damanshot Legend
Damanshot Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio	Quote: Quote: It's JUST DUMB to do that. Especially if you have so many needs like the Browns do. It's JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. SO, yeah, it's comical... VERY comical. Well I hope for your argument's sake that Holmgren was lying last year when he said he was willing to trade most of our draft for the #1 pick to get Bradford. I don't ever remember him saying that.. Show me? #GMSTRONG “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan "Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Damanshot #644618 12/27/11 09:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,590 P PStu24 Dawg Talker
PStu24 Dawg Talker P Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,590	I remember watching it on TV. They interviewed him on ESPN and STO IIRC ... and they reported multiple places (though it could have been a rumor) that the Browns made one final pitch to the rams about an hour before the draft to move up. Holmy was interviewed and said it was just too much to pay. "Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things." @pstu24

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... PStu24 #644619 12/27/11 10:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,212 Central Minnesota B bigf00t Dawg Talker
bigf00t Dawg Talker B Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,212 Central Minnesota	j/c just curious, but could the rams afford to draft Luck and trade Bradford?? How much of that salary would hit the cap?? I think they are almost stuck with Bradford, and if lucky enough to get the number one, just auction it off to the highest bidder. The most i would offer would be the two first rounders this year, a fourth this year and next years second. No way do i throw in next years first, probably another top ten pick. It would be nice if Atlanta would do a one and done in the playoffs, just to keep that pick in the low 20's.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... akronjoe #644620 12/27/11 10:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio YTownBrownsFan Legend
YTownBrownsFan Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio	Quote: Quote: I bet the Browns make an offer in the 3 #1 pick plus range ...... but the Colts, knowing the value of a franchise QB, decline. Not everyone is as moronic as the browns under Mangini Kokinis and the jets get a franchise QB for a center and a bag o donuts. I was glad we did NOT take Sanchez. He was a flash in the pan as far as I was concerned ....... I do wish that we could have gotten more for the pick ..... but it is what it is at this point. Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... archbolddawg #644621 12/27/11 10:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio YTownBrownsFan Legend
YTownBrownsFan Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio	Quote: Quote: Quote: I pray to God that they decline. I'll be mad as hell if we trade away 3 #1's for a prospect. If we could get a franchise QB for 1 first round picks, I'd be mad as hell if we passed. Just exactly WHO is this "franchise" qb you speak of? Sorry man - first round draft picks are at best 50/50 propositions. Just because Luck is considered by the so called "experts" to be a can't miss guy - you wanna sell the farm to get him? Just because he is considered the best qb to come out this year, you want to sell the farm to get him? I don't understand. Barclay was considered the next best - and draft guru's had him as qb 2. OOOOPS - the guru's weren't even prepared for him to say "I ain't going pro." Shoot, how many people on here had already sent our draft picks to who ever so we could get Barclay? Improve the team. If a qb is there, take him. Sell out this years picks and next years for a proven nothing? I don't want that to happen. Let's get 3 or 4 proven nothing picks and hope 2 stick. IF ....... Rhe Browns have an opportunity to trade up for Luck, and pass on it ...... and he becomes a franchise QB as almost everyone in the free world, especially those who know and follow football expect .... then this front office will be one of the stupidest front offices in the history of stupid Browns front offices. I know that you think that McCoy will somehow miraculously improve enough to take us to, and win, a Super Bowl ..... but I do not. I know that you do not think that a QB is any more important than the positions around him. I disagree. (and I bet that almost every front office in the NFL would as well) I know that you think that you can take a limited QB and turn him into a capable starter if you could just put enough talent around him ...... I do not. I think that a great QB elevates the play of those around him. It is only with a great QB that you can see if modestly talented WR and OL bloom and become the best they can be. Or we can keep chasing the elusive "good enough" players at the other positions. I remember doing this on the OL with Charlie Frye. Oh that line was lambasted, and blasted, and harangued. The opening game against the Steelers was "just one more example" of how bad they were ........ until they weren't. Change the QB and change the whole team. Yes, I am asking to change the QB, and yes, it is a matter of "Again???", because until and unless we get this one key piece of the puzzle right it will not matter what we do at any and every other position. We should be addressing the QB spot early in every draft until we find the right guy. Hell, Carolina had Matt Moore and Jimmy Claussen. They were an UDFA and a 1st round pick in the last draft. Carolina had a chance to draft Cam Newton and they took it. There were questions about him ...... but they were smart and knew that until and unless you have a QB you have nothing ...... so they took him. They went from being the worst team in the NFL to the middle of the pack in one year. They will be a 6 or 7 win team this year. Their defense is an embarrassment ...... but their rookie QB keeps them in every game, and wins more than he should. He is a franchise QB, and this is what a franchise QB brings to a team. That's what I want to see start in Cleveland. Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... YTownBrownsFan #644622 12/27/11 10:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 30,938 A archbolddawg Legend
archbolddawg Legend A Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 30,938	Quote: IF ....... The Browns have an opportunity to trade up for Luck, and pass on it ...... and he becomes a franchise QB as almost everyone in the free world, especially those who know and follow football expect .... then this front office will be one of the stupidest front offices in the history of stupid Browns front offices. IF IF IF. IF he does what all the guru's thiink.....IF IF IF. Quote: I know that you think that McCoy will somehow miraculously improve enough to take us to, and win, a Super Bowl .... I have never said that. I have never insinuated that. I haven't ever, EVER come close to saying what you just said I think. For that matter, neither has anyone else. Quote: Hell, Carolina had Matt Moore and Jimmy Claussen. They were an UDFA and a 1st round pick in the last draft. Carolina had a chance to draft Cam Newton and they took it. There were questions about him ...... but they were smart and knew that until and unless you have a QB you have nothing ...... so they took him. They went from being the worst team in the NFL to the middle of the pack in one year. They will be a 6 or 7 win team this year. Their defense is an embarrassment ...... but their rookie QB keeps them in every game, and wins more than he should. He is a franchise QB, and this is what a franchise QB brings to a team. That's what I want to see start in Cleveland. Okay - so, how do you factor in what you and some others love to gripe about? The whole "once the nfl gets film on him, he'll suck" factor. Before we call Newton - who's done a great job by the way, for a 4 or 5 win team - before we call him a "franchise" player, shouldn't we see a bit more than 1 year of starts out of him??? You call him a franchise player? His team has 6 wins. That's a franchise qb? Or are you saying he'll get better in the future? On one hand, we don't give our qb any time to get better (not just Colt).....on the other hand, a qb that has 6 wins is a "franchise" qb. On one hand, in Cleveland, we here "Oh, just wait till the other teams have tape on our qb", and on the other hand, you seem to think that won't matter with Newton. Golly, I'm confused. Yup, if we just sell the farm for Barclay (or is it Barkley) we'll be all set.......oops, he's not even coming out. Damn draft gurus. If we just sell out for Luck, we'll be all set. Maybe we could win 6 games next year. The year after? It'll be all "he has no one to throw to, no running game......." blah blah blah. We take the bpa for the positions we have need in. That's that.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... FL_Dawg #644623 12/27/11 11:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,445 H Haus Hall of Famer
Haus Hall of Famer H Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,445	Quote: Quote: Quote: Adding a QB like Luck (which, by the way, is comical that anyone would think we are going to even consider trading up for him) won't help much if he's on his back all game or has nobody to throw to that will make the tough AND easy catches. I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that the Browns will inquire about moving up to #1 to take Luck. Now, just how big of an offer we make and whether or not it happens remains to be seen. I'll say as a rough estimate maybe there is a 10% chance of it happening. LOL, I'll go you one better ... There is probably a 90% chance that there will be discussions between the two parties, but that's pretty much as far as they will go. Imo Oh, I completely agree that there will be dicussions. I meant ~10% that the talks actually come to fruition and the Browns trade up to 1.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... YTownBrownsFan #644624 12/27/11 11:21 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH FL_Dawg Hall of Famer
FL_Dawg Hall of Famer Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH	Quote: Carolina had a chance to draft Cam Newton and they took it. There were questions about him ...... but they were smart and knew that until and unless you have a QB you have nothing ...... so they took him. They rolled the dice and it looks like they got lucky in hind sight. I don't believe that it was a unanimous and forgone conclusion to the rest of the League that Newton was even the BPA and should have been the first selection then. Moore has looked pretty good in Miami, certainly he has been an up grade for them and the golden dome'er was the last regimes mistake. The fact that they had the selection to make is/was also key.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... archbolddawg #644625 12/27/11 11:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio YTownBrownsFan Legend
YTownBrownsFan Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio	I have never said that a QB will suck once the NFL gets film on him ..... what I have said is that it is a continuous chess game ...... with defenses adjusting to take away a QB's strengths ...... to take away his preferred throws ..... to take away his tendencies under pressure ..... and the QB adjusting to that. Newton has already gone through part of that adjustment stage. Defenses are trying to prevent him from doing what he would prefer to do, and he is adjusting, It looks like he is not forcing as many passes as he did earlier this year. He is still running the ball effectively. He has only thrown 2 INT in his last 5 games, while throwing 8 TDs. He is learning how to play in the NFL, and mroe importantly, learning how to play at a high level in the NFL. Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... YTownBrownsFan #644626 12/28/11 01:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,338 Lou Groza Blvd L LOYALDAWG Dawg Talker
LOYALDAWG Dawg Talker L Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,338 Lou Groza Blvd	I have been wrong about Cam Newton thus far in his career, but he is about the only one I can think of. Luck to me has potential beyond Cam Newton and is about the only QB that being slated for the top pick or at the top of the draft is fitting. The Brady Quinns, Jamarcus Russels, RGIIIs, Clausens, Gabberts, etc get hyped up. It happens every year. I don't blame McCoy like some and think he can be as successful as he wants to be. I think if you put any QB with his skillset and work ethic and competetive fire in the same system long enough and definately an established system with pieces around him and continuity and game experience behind him most will be succesful. I think if you plugged McCoy into say Dallas or New Orleans, I think he would have way more success than here in a new system on a short offseason with hurt players for most of the year and a below average talent level at some. Think abou opening the season with Robiskie and MoMass who didn't practice at all during training camp. Now throw in a Circus act surrounding Hillis and him missing 6 or 7 games you lose your third down back and Hardesty only saw limited action in Camp and didn't exactly overwelm. Now throw in your O Coordinator is also the Head Coach and runs an offense that gas proven limited and shoddy at times even when in St. Louis. I think he is capable of being Drew Brees if times and experience allowed it, but he could also be the next Charlie Frye. This city ruins QB's, we don't know how to handle them and we never give them the best opportunity to be successful. I would be willing to bet that if McCoy started next year that he would be better by a ton just by familiarity and a full offseason alone. I think we could be a competetive team of 500 or better and with the D getting better too and some lucky bounces could sniff a wild card. By year three In an established system with Good young players groomed into this system we would be playoff bound. I believe Luck is going to be a great QB. I do not want to trade the farm for him though. If he landed in our laps there is no doubt you take him. "Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... PStu24 #644627 12/28/11 09:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio Damanshot Legend
Damanshot Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio	Quote: I remember watching it on TV. They interviewed him on ESPN and STO IIRC ... and they reported multiple places (though it could have been a rumor) that the Browns made one final pitch to the rams about an hour before the draft to move up. Holmy was interviewed and said it was just too much to pay. Rumor? Yeah, there were a ton of rumors.. and yeah, Holmgren said that the price was too much as you say. But I NEVER EVER remember him saying he'd even considered trading the entire draft for Bradford..... NOT ONCE.. he said he explored it, talked to the rams about it and walked away from it because the price was too high...NEVER said he'd be willing to give up his entire draft for Bradford...NEVER. Only a moron would do that.. Last edited by Damanshot; 12/28/11 09:02 AM. #GMSTRONG “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan "Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Damanshot #644628 12/28/11 12:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,521 South Euclid, OH A Adam_P Hall of Famer
Adam_P Hall of Famer A Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,521 South Euclid, OH	http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/12212/holmgren-plans-one-last-push-for-bradford http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/cleveland_browns_will_call_ram.html http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/22/browns-will-offer-most-of-their-picks-for-bradford/ Like I said, hopefully it was all a bunch of BS

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Adam_P #644629 12/28/11 03:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio Damanshot Legend
Damanshot Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio	Quote: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/12212/holmgren-plans-one-last-push-for-bradford http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/cleveland_browns_will_call_ram.html http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/22/browns-will-offer-most-of-their-picks-for-bradford/ Like I said, hopefully it was all a bunch of BS I think it's safe to say that it's either BS or Holmgren is an IDIOT or Mike Smith is a liar.. Take your pick #GMSTRONG “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan "Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Damanshot #644630 12/28/11 05:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,445 H Haus Hall of Famer
Haus Hall of Famer H Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,445	Daman haven't we been through this before? https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...true#Post853989 Quote: Holmgren talking about trying to trade up to #1 overall in the 2010 draft: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...b5-c744f1d70747 />

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Damanshot #644631 12/28/11 05:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,445 D Dawg in Dayton Hall of Famer
Dawg in Dayton Hall of Famer D Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,445	Quote: Quote: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/12212/holmgren-plans-one-last-push-for-bradford http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/cleveland_browns_will_call_ram.html http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/22/browns-will-offer-most-of-their-picks-for-bradford/ Like I said, hopefully it was all a bunch of BS I think it's safe to say that it's either BS or Holmgren is an IDIOT or Mike Smith is a liar.. Take your pick BS huh...Homies an Idiot huh... Newsflash for ya'... It's NOT BS...And we were ready to give the picks to get a QB at #1...IN YEAR ONE of the new regime... Newsflash #2... We WILL be making the calls right up to draft day to get Luck from Indy or HOPEFULLY the Rams... And if it's the Rams and they don't bite...We're gonna make a play for Bradford guaranteed...Unless we come to like RGIII that much... It's a major SAFE bet that one of these 3 will be our QB going forward... Luck RGIII Bradford And all 3 DON'T have the limitations that McCoy has... Go Browns!!!

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Damanshot #644632 12/28/11 06:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,521 South Euclid, OH A Adam_P Hall of Famer
Adam_P Hall of Famer A Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,521 South Euclid, OH	Quote: Quote: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/12212/holmgren-plans-one-last-push-for-bradford http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/cleveland_browns_will_call_ram.html http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/22/browns-will-offer-most-of-their-picks-for-bradford/ Like I said, hopefully it was all a bunch of BS I think it's safe to say that it's either BS or Holmgren is an IDIOT or Mike Smith is a liar.. Take your pick I don't have to take a pick. It's not my argument whose basis depends on one of those being true.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Dawg in Dayton #644633 12/28/11 07:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 841 T The Big G All Pro
The Big G All Pro T Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 841	Bradford had 18 TDs and 15 picks as a rookie, then 6 and 6 this year in what was a disaster. He still has an NFL body and a great arm, plus two years under his belt. If the Rams want Luck, I'd give them our 1B pick. We could get Blackmon, Kalil, Claiborn, maybe trade back a little for Richardson and still have a good QB coming out of the first round. It sounds like the bonus/salary issues kinda wash. Does that sound plausible?

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Dawg in Dayton #644634 12/28/11 07:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio Damanshot Legend
Damanshot Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 43,552 Aurora, Ohio	Quote: Quote: Quote: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/12212/holmgren-plans-one-last-push-for-bradford http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/cleveland_browns_will_call_ram.html http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/22/browns-will-offer-most-of-their-picks-for-bradford/ Like I said, hopefully it was all a bunch of BS I think it's safe to say that it's either BS or Holmgren is an IDIOT or Mike Smith is a liar.. Take your pick BS huh...Homies an Idiot huh... Newsflash for ya'... It's NOT BS...And we were ready to give the picks to get a QB at #1...IN YEAR ONE of the new regime... Newsflash #2... We WILL be making the calls right up to draft day to get Luck from Indy or HOPEFULLY the Rams... And if it's the Rams and they don't bite...We're gonna make a play for Bradford guaranteed...Unless we come to like RGIII that much... It's a major SAFE bet that one of these 3 will be our QB going forward... Luck RGIII Bradford And all 3 DON'T have the limitations that McCoy has... It's BS,,, 100% It's clear to me that if we'd have offered all of our picks that year (we had 10 I think) and some from the following season, the Rams would have taken it in a heartbeat.. Which is why i'm confident that we never offered all that as some articles have mentioned. So yeah, it's BS My guess is that we offered some stuff,, maybe a couple of 1st rounders and some 2nds or 3rds.. for sure, But any more than that, Holmgren must have felt that the price was too high.. that doesn't make him an idiot, that makes him rather bright. What is crazy is tossing the entire draft at a team to get the first pick.. And yes, had he done that, he'd be an idiot in my eyes.. anything else you wanna question? #GMSTRONG “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan "Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Damanshot #644635 12/28/11 07:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 14,088 OHIO M mac OP Legend
OP mac Legend M Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 14,088 OHIO	jk.. imo... Holmgren was talking to media a month before the draft about being interested in Bradford, with comments such as...he'll consider drafting a QB with the Browns No. 7 pick or trading up to get one... and that ...he likes QB Sam Bradford 'a lot... When a franchise's Pres or GM is volunteering to publicly discuss their draft strategy a month before draft, it's called "a smokescreen". Obviously Holmgren was trying to get some to believe in what he was saying...but Holmy was simply using the media for reasons that may never be known by the public... GM strong... Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... mac #644636 12/28/11 08:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,015 O OverToad Hall of Famer
OverToad Hall of Famer O Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,015	Quote: When a franchise's Pres or GM is volunteering to publicly discuss their draft strategy a month before draft, it's called "a smokescreen". Sometimes. But not in this case. I'm walking in to the middle-to-very-end of a conversation, but Holmgren wasn't BS'ing about making offers for Bradford. Here's the quote which he NEVER refuted: Quote: Holmgren tells ESPN he's making one last push Holmgren plans one last push for Bradford April, 22, 2010 4/22/104:37PM ETEmailPrintCommentsBy ESPN.com staffCleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren told ESPN's Michael Smith that prior to tonight's draft he plans to give the St. Louis Rams one more call regarding the possibility of trading into the No. 1 pick for Oklahoma quarterback Sam Bradford. Holmgren declined to delve into specifics as far as his offer to the Rams, but indicated he would be willing to part with most -- but likely not all -- of the Browns' 10 picks and perhaps a pick or picks next year for the consensus No. 1 quarterback in this year's draft. Holmgren, however, is not optimistic that the Rams will pull the trigger on a trade. "They shouldn't do it," he said. "They need a quarterback more than anyone in the world." Holmgren said the Browns already have had three or four conversations with the Rams regarding the top pick. With St. Louis being somewhat coy about its intentions, and with no contract in place with Bradford, Holmgren will make one last run at Bradford. "It's not going to happen," Holmgren said. "I just got out of a meeting and I told everyone, let [the board] come to us. That said, I'm going to go make the call." It doesn't get any more clear than that. *Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.*

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... OverToad #644637 12/28/11 08:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,502 Tennessee B Ballpeen Legend
Ballpeen Legend B Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,502 Tennessee	I agree, Homie wanted Bradford. It was simply a matter of the price being unrealistic or the Rams weren't interested in moving out of the pick. If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Ballpeen #644638 12/28/11 08:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,521 South Euclid, OH A Adam_P Hall of Famer
Adam_P Hall of Famer A Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,521 South Euclid, OH	I'd venture to guess he still wants him.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Adam_P #644639 12/28/11 10:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 11,465 P PDR Legend
PDR Legend P Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 11,465	I know lines of thinking get skewed a bit at draft time, but I simply don't see any way that Bradford could be moved out of St. Louis. They've probably already sunk around $20 million into the guy. I don't know how much more they would have to fork over to send him away (I think those numbers are floating around the board somewhere), but it makes little sense to dump the guy. I think around draft season people think of football as more of a Madden franchise than the business that it is.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... PDR #644640 12/28/11 10:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,338 Lou Groza Blvd L LOYALDAWG Dawg Talker
LOYALDAWG Dawg Talker L Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,338 Lou Groza Blvd	Not sure if Anyone caught the Heath Evans interview today on 92.3 The fan. Good stuff! The interview is on their site. Heath Evans "Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... Damanshot #644641 12/29/11 12:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio YTownBrownsFan Legend
YTownBrownsFan Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 50,954 YTown, Ohio	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/12212/holmgren-plans-one-last-push-for-bradford http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/cleveland_browns_will_call_ram.html http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/22/browns-will-offer-most-of-their-picks-for-bradford/ Like I said, hopefully it was all a bunch of BS I think it's safe to say that it's either BS or Holmgren is an IDIOT or Mike Smith is a liar.. Take your pick BS huh...Homies an Idiot huh... Newsflash for ya'... It's NOT BS...And we were ready to give the picks to get a QB at #1...IN YEAR ONE of the new regime... Newsflash #2... We WILL be making the calls right up to draft day to get Luck from Indy or HOPEFULLY the Rams... And if it's the Rams and they don't bite...We're gonna make a play for Bradford guaranteed...Unless we come to like RGIII that much... It's a major SAFE bet that one of these 3 will be our QB going forward... Luck RGIII Bradford And all 3 DON'T have the limitations that McCoy has... It's BS,,, 100% It's clear to me that if we'd have offered all of our picks that year (we had 10 I think) and some from the following season, the Rams would have taken it in a heartbeat.. Which is why i'm confident that we never offered all that as some articles have mentioned. So yeah, it's BS My guess is that we offered some stuff,, maybe a couple of 1st rounders and some 2nds or 3rds.. for sure, But any more than that, Holmgren must have felt that the price was too high.. that doesn't make him an idiot, that makes him rather bright. What is crazy is tossing the entire draft at a team to get the first pick.. And yes, had he done that, he'd be an idiot in my eyes.. anything else you wanna question? If anyone knows how important it is to have the right QB in the NFL it is Mike Holmgren. Further, Heckert and Shurmur have both seen how a QB can turn a team around. A whole draft is a steep price to pay ...... but if you can get the single most important, and the single most difficult position to find filled, you do it. There's not a single draft we've had since 1999 that I wouldn't completely give up to get Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees, or Tom Brady. If the front office sees a guy they think is on that same level, I would think that they would pull the trigger and not think twice about it. You can only go so far with scraps at the QB position. Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.

Re: Is It Too Soon To Give Up on Colt McCoy #3... YTownBrownsFan #644642 12/29/11 12:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,338 Lou Groza Blvd L LOYALDAWG Dawg Talker
LOYALDAWG Dawg Talker L Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,338 Lou Groza Blvd	Quote: If anyone knows how important it is to have the right QB in the NFL it is Mike Holmgren. Further, Heckert and Shurmur have both seen how a QB can turn a team around. A whole draft is a steep price to pay ...... but if you can get the single most important, and the single most difficult position to find filled, you do it. There's not a single draft we've had since 1999 that I wouldn't completely give up to get Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees, or Tom Brady. If the front office sees a guy they think is on that same level, I would think that they would pull the trigger and not think twice about it. You can only go so far with scraps at the QB position. An important Point you make about Holmgren. He knows you don't need to give up a whole draft to get that guy. He got Farve and stuck with him and had Hasselback..a 6th rounder. Drew Brees didn't light the world on fire either his first years. Take a minute and listen to the Heath Evans interview. It's an outsiders opinion on the Browns. Has some insights from the Locker Room too. You listen to him and hear what Kurt Warner has to say and Gannon. Holmgren is a believer of his system and will groom his guy for it. Evans said Holmgren probably won't even look at RG3 or something along those lines. "Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)

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